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Paul Frank

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Sad perspective, with some truth to it.
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Jason G.'s profile photoPaul Frank's profile photo
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+Jason G. Some Americans did indeed decide that gun control does not work as +joshua Deshautelles  suggests, though I don't know that I have met one whose decision was prompted by Sandy Hook.  While I am not one of those -- before or after Sandy Hook -- most importantly those decisions have not been made as the result of a strong, vigorous research program conducted by researchers on all sides of this question.

The topic here is actually different from any reports provided by myself or you gentleman.  In the first place this report is hyperbolic -- the gun control debate is not over.  But I think it makes a valid point that after the initial visceral response to Sandy Hook, there has been a de facto resignation by many who supported stronger gun control.  Those who have fought for stronger gun control did not en masse become convinced it was no longer necessary.  Rather they lost the battle for grand-scale change and along with it they lost a bit of their heart.
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Yes, this works great.
 
Just something for folks to digest. I don't know about you all, but when I get in to arguments with some of my more left leaning, gun grabby acquaintances they frequently refer to Australia as this brilliant blueprint for what they think ought to happen in the United States. I have long maintained that this is absurd, and Australia is far from being a paradise, but many people simply don't listen. Now I have some facts to bring to this conversation, made public by none other than the Australian Crime Statistics Agency.
This of course is an article about Melbourne, but illustrates that all isn't as rosy down under as the grabbers would have us believe. Keep in mind that metropolitan Melbourne has roughly 4.1M residents making it the second biggest city in the country after Sydney. It is also the fastest growing city, which likely contributes to some of these issues. Nonetheless, what that means is that this report represents problems facing 17.5% of the country's population and growing.
Interesting points from this article:
- Firearm-related incidents, such as drive-by shootings, every six days.
- An increasing trend of children as young as 16 carrying guns.
- Regularly finding guns in cars, including sawn-off shotguns and an automatic machine gun, during routine car intercepts.
- Guns stolen from rural homes being used in violent crime in the north-west.
- Some 530 guns were stolen in rural Victoria in 2013.
- Violent crimes committed with guns have increased three fold in the last five years.

Take from this what you will, but I see this as confirmation of what we have already known. Tight gun measures do not take guns out of the hands of criminals, and lead only to an increasingly dangerous society.
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Paul Frank

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Interesting research:  Stronger social networks leads to fewer loners turned mass killers.

h/t to +joshua Deshautelles 
The USA leads the world in gun ownership, but it's our individualistic culture that puts us at greater risk of mass shootings compared with other nations where guns are prevalent, a British criminologist says.
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Jason G.'s profile photoPaul Frank's profile photo
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I have been a vocal proponent of a strong, vigorous research program with leading thinkers on all sides of the issue.  I would favor allowing different communities to experiment with different policies, rigorously tracking what works and what doesn't.  To my mind the research here is an example what scientists can come up with when they apply their creative expertise to figuring out what is going on.  This hypothesis needs more research as do many others.  One of my biggest complaints about the NRA is their obstruction of research, which to my mind -- inasmuch as firearms are a leading cause of death in the US -- is tantamount to negligent homicide.

To the extent that there are not clear outcomes to the research, I believe different individuals and communities should make their own best judgments about what works for their needs.  In the 60s John Kennedy challenged the nation to make it to the moon, and we accomplished that.  Given the life toll I believe this merits a similar research commitment.  Opening up the ATF's records would do a lot by itself.

My thoughts anyway.  Your comments are welcome.

Cheers, Paul
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Carla Npsgirl
owner

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occupy the nra
He was a young gunman bent on shooting as many worshippers as possible, but Matthew J. Murray never got as far as Dylann Roof, the suspect in Wednesday’s South Carolina church massacre.
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Michael Brown's profile photo
 
It could have stopped the amount that have died.  
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William Urmson

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And I'm sure The NRA will stand behind the Charleston SC murderer and claim it was the black folks fault because they got in the way of the bullets. The NRA is as much at fault as the deranged killer. Remember after the Newtown massacre when the NRA had a press conference and from that point forward guns flooded this country and irresponsible laws were passed? The NRA is a terrorist group bent on war against the people of America pure and simple. When will it stop? When will the ignorant of America wake the fuck up? When? ~ WJU ‪#‎CharlestonShooting‬
https://youtu.be/OqZqGql9ml4
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Michael Brown's profile photoClint Shepherd's profile photo
5 comments
 
Not making our schools any "stabler".......maybe you should pray for a swift lesson in grammar lmao
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Paul Frank

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"Moms have got a message for the NRA: Game on."
Watch as parents and survivors brandish a new weapon: the gun lobby’s own words.
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Michael Brown's profile photoPaul Frank's profile photo
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+Michael Brown  I think motherhood is an effective counterweight to rights rhetoric.  As you know I support an evidence-based approach, and I know a lot of wise moms.  I don't find the NRA's major public events a court of reason myself.

Cheers Michael
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I don't figure this will get far, but I find it funny how much they campaign for things that they try so hard to not call a registry.
Washington Examiner: Anti-gun House and Senate Democrats have opened a campaign to get states to require a license issued by police, complete with… - National Rifle Association - Google+
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Michael Brown's profile photoBigstones Mc Gee's profile photo
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9 out of 10 criminals surveyed said they would comply with the licensing requirement.
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It's true! The group help write gun control measures. It also offered gun safety training and focused on sports like hunting and marksmanship. Then came the Cincinnati Revolt in 1977, and the group took a hard right...
#NRA #coup  
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Michael Brown

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What do you guys think about this "common sense" gun law?
We’ve heard the same story hundreds of times. In the rush to get to the airport, some gun owner forgot to double check their carry-on luggage. Hiding inside: a loaded handgun that they meant to remove and leave at home,Read More
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SayNoTo Democide's profile photojoshua Deshautelles's profile photo
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I find it hard to believe having a gun on a carry on bag is just an "oops" moment, but then again, I had a number of knives in my laptop bag that have just always been there. The bad thing is the screeners didn't notice just as much as I forgot. Which made it rather funny, because I made sure to leave my pocket knives at home. I put them in my suit case for the trip home so as to not have them in the carry on.
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About this community

GUN CONTROL NOW! "A time comes when silence...is betrayal." -MLK Jr.
 
The real menace?
One of the more intersting stories to come out of the aftermath of the Charlestown shooting was the report that non-Muslim extremists have killed more people than Muslim extremists.
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Black Knight

Discussion  - 
 
This guy, is why we can't have nice things.

https://plus.google.com/114168495967242447705/posts/MFc9CoLWsqA
Free Dylann - Aryan Kruger - Google+
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SayNoTo Democide's profile photoMichael Brown's profile photo
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Not sure what the point of this was except maybe to make fun of this guys post?  But making him more famous (the retard that posted this) your giving him what he wants.  
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Paul Frank

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‘No Way To Prevent This’


#BlastFromThePast  #TheOnion  #satire
ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mas...
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joshua Deshautelles's profile photoPaul Frank's profile photo
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Nice work +Dave Derrick .  I appreciate it.

Great piece +joshua Deshautelles .  Sounds like an important and encouraging line of research.  The thesis offers an insight into American culture.
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Paul Frank

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Some firearms research results:

"gun owners committed only 259 “justifiable homicides” involving a gun, compared to 8,342 criminal gun homicides in 2012."

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"Victims, when confronted with violent crime, only fired a shot or threatened to use a firearm 0.8 percent of the time"

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"50.6 percent of those committing justifiable homicides were white, while 46.1 percent were black, while the victims of such homicides were 37.8 percent white and 58.7 percent black."

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"The question that remains, however, is whether the risk that a potential crime victim may be in possession of a firearm or use one in self-defense is a significant deterrent to violent criminals.

"Professors James D. Wright and Peter Rossi of the University of Massachusettsfound, in asurveyof felons published in 1994, that 81 percent of criminals believe that a “smart” criminal will know if a potential victim is armed. Additionally, 74 percent indicated that burglars avoid occupied dwellings out of fear of being shot, and 57 percent fear armed citizens more than they feared police."
A gun control advocacy organization called Violence Policy Center has released a study that finds people are more likely to use a gun to kill someone without cause than for self-defense or protection of…
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Michael Brown's profile photoPaul Frank's profile photo
2 comments
 
Some interesting firearms research results.  That's all.
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Paul Frank

Discussion  - 
 
Revisiting 2013 article.


h/t to Max Blumenthal
As George Zimmerman's trial begins, the stories of two very different shooters show the inequality behind the law
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Paul Frank's profile photo
3 comments
 
 +Johnny Chandler  I have read the article you shared.  I have attempted to square the different reports.  To the extent the mediatrackers.org article is a fair representation, the Wikipedia article on Marissa Alexander's case is quite incomplete.  It would be nice to get an account vetted by partisans from both sides, and hence, something Wikipedia often does well.  

Maybe someone could update the Wikipedia and let those from all sides of the issue sort out the truth?  Thanks for sharing.  I will add this to my file on the topic and hope we can find a way to move beyond the partisan nature of these publications.

Cheers, Paul
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Paul Frank

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"Today’s radicalized NRA was born in 1977 when its newly elected leader Harlon Carter rejected calls for background checks, saying that allowing “convicted violent felons, mentally deranged people, violently addicted to narcotics people to have guns” was simply the “price we pay for freedom.” "
Everytown for Gun Safety has released a report titled Not Your Grandparents’ NRA that highlights a simple fact: the NRA that was created after the Civil War to promote hunting, marksmanship, and safety training — and that supported common sense gun laws — no longer exists. Today’s NRA would be unrecognizable to the founding members of the organization.
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Michael Brown's profile photoPaul Frank's profile photo
5 comments
 
Thanks for the history.  It is definitely the case that hyperbole rules the day.  I am not aware of their whole history, and with the most popular sources I am only going to  get one side of the story.

That said, I am still sharply critical of the  NRA.
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Rewriting a fictional narrative.
 
This should probably not come as a surprise to anyone here.
The authors of the study essentially admitted that they made up data where official data didn't exist in order to fit their narrative that mass shootings were on the rise. Apparently the truth that there was no increase in mass shootings and in fact crime was on a decline, didn't show what they wanted it to.
This fraudulent report was then used as ammo by anti-gun politicians to push their gun control agendas.
  
Two authors of a study the FBI released in September admitted their report that mass shootings "were on the rise" in America was incorrect.
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joshua Deshautelles's profile photo
 
Fact is, new syndicates and people in general are more connected than they have ever been. Combine that with Pulitzer style sensationalism, and it's easy to see how it seems like violence is more prevalent than it used to be. 
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Michael Brown

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Wondering everyone's thoughts on this.

 I think that basing punishment of one person based on the actions of another individual is wrong.  I can see that allowing those not legally allowed to have access to a firearm to have access to a firearm is dangerous, but I think that it should be a more consistent.  
Synopsis of Bill: This Act revises the crime of “unlawfully permitting a minor access to a firearm,” an existing class A misdemeanor under Delaware law. The offense is renamed “unsafe storage of a firearm” to place emphasis on firearm safety and proper storage. Under the revised statute a crime ...
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joshua Deshautelles's profile photo
 
I think they're trying to stop kids from hurting themselves by way of negligent adults. Problem is, we already have statutes that deal with negligent bodily harm, which unfortunately are often not used after an "accident." So, in order to feel all warm and fuzzy, they think making it criminal to allow a child access to a firearm (in this case either negligent or willingly) needs to be outlawed. So, the many anecdotes about an adolescent or even child who has defended themselves from unlawful intruders by use of a firearm translates into negligence on their parents, because, well, now it's illegal for kids to defend themselves from adult accosters. Or, more to the point, it's illegal for parents to make a firearm available for their child to defend themselves if need be.

In short, this is punishment against all parents for the vastly fewer who actually were negligent.
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Who but me could see similarities between "Climate Deniers" and "Gun Violence Deniers"? 
#BeReady  
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James D (Harrisburg Under Fire)'s profile photoJohnny Chandler's profile photo
6 comments
 
+James D

*seem
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Paul Frank

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May 2015 Accidental Shootings of/by Children 16 & Under

AL 1yo shot in chest, airlifted to Atlanta hospital, condition stable.
TN 4yo shot in leg.
AL 2yo shot by dad cleaning gun.
CA 13yo shot in head. Deceased. GoFundMe »
FL 7yo girl, deceased.
LA 4yo shot by 6yo. Deceased.
IA 10yo shot in leg.
2 girls, ages 6 & 8 accidentally shot by 17yo brother. Non life threatening injuries.
MI 4yo shot in head. Condition unknown, presumed accident.
MN 15yo DECEASED, shot by 14yo bro accidentally.
CA 13yo shot herself with a cop’s gun in the home
FL 11yo shot in arm & back by twin bro with mom’s gun.
Council Bluffs, IA 4yo shot in neck. Condition unknown.
IN 6yo boy shot 3yo sister with dad’s gun in car.
Yuma, AZ 3yo shot at home, circumstance TBD.
MI 3yo shot in head at park. Mother’s boyfriend acting “suspicious”.
TX 3yo in critical condition after accidental shooting.
IN 7yo shot in park May 6. 17yo was intended target.
Ann Arbor, MI 4yo grazed by bullet from accidental discharge.
OH 15yo shot in face by 28 year old cousin, deceased.
OH 5yo shot himself with mom’s gun. Mom facing charges.
2 children hit by tile fragments when concealed permit holder’s gun is accidentally discharged at Clearwater Beach hotel.
OK 2yo shot self in arm with mom’s purse gun. No charges filed.
AR 4yo shot by sibling. Deceased.
FL 1yo shot by 3yo brother, loaded gun in mom’s car. Expected to survive.
IA 15yo girl shot by 14yo brother with stolen gun. Deceased.
FL 4yo shot in abdomen, condition stable.
CA 12 yo shot in leg when family member drops gun.
AL 13yo DECEASED after gun accidentally goes off.
NC 12yo accidentally shot by 8yo brother, with shotgun found on property. No charges expected.
MT 15yo shot by teen friend who didn’t know his friend was trying to wake him up. DECEASED.
GA 9yo shoots self in finger after finding gun in mom’s bedroom.
OH 8yo shot self in hand.
UT 4yo boy accidentally shot by 3yo brother with shotgun at grandad’s house.
CA 9yo DECEASED. Shot by 14yo brother.
TN 13yo accidentally shot herself. Daughter of deputy. Remains in coma.
MI 3yo DECEASED after shooting self.
MA 7yo shot while riding his bike, bullet may have been intended for barbershop patron.
VA 2yo shot self with unattended gun on top of dresser. Toddler DECEASED.
CA 15yo shot by dad working on handgun.
TX 3yo DECEASED by shotgun wound. Man arrested.
NC 3yo accidentally shot self with gun found in dresser; leads to another shooting in Emergency Room.
NY 4yo DECEASED after shooting herself.

Shot BY Children

KY mother shot by 2yo.
MI 28 yr old woman DECEASED, shot by 12 yo boy.
AR 14yo playing with pistol shot & killed 19 yo friend. DECEASED. 14 yo charged with Homicide.
SD 4yo shot and killed 22yo man. DECEASED.

http://wagv.org/2015/06/01/may-2015-accidental-shootings-ofby-children-16-under/
AL 1yo shot in chest, airlifted to Atlanta hospital, condition stable. TN 4yo shot in leg. AL 2yo shot by dad cleaning gun. CA 13yo shot in head. Deceased. GoFundMe » · FL 7yo girl, deceased. LA 4yo shot by 6yo. Deceased. IA 10yo shot in leg. 2 girls, ages 6 & 8 accidentally shot by 17yo brother ...
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joshua Deshautelles's profile photoPaul Frank's profile photo
34 comments
 
As much as I don't like slippery slope arguments, slippery slopes are real, and there are psychological reasons for them.


Intentional homicides/100,000 by nation:

United States                 4.7
Australia                         1.1
United Kingdom              1.0
France                             1.0
 
Many other European countries are significantly lower

Sweden                           0.7
Denmark                          0.8
Spain                               0.8

Norway would have been 0.6 without the Breivik massacre.  With it they are still at 2.2, less than half the US rate.

Elsewhere in other developed economies

Japan                               0.3
Singapore                        0,2
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)

The issue is not your chosen method of self-defense qua your chosen method of self-defense.  It is the methods by which guns are made available, with what screening, what regulations, and so forth.  Enforcing unregulated gun sales on a community that is anti-gun is horribly wrong in my view.

Question:  Should  Japan be required to allow all citizens to own firearms?  Why or why not?


"You may choose not to defend yourself with certain tools, but demanding everyone else does the same, and taking measures to force them to comply, does not positively affect your right to life,"

This is an empirical claim, which you keep making throughout your comments.  Exactly what I am promoting is evidence-based public policy.  Depending on the outcomes of this research, communities have a fundamental right to make their own choices.

With regard to this specific claim, it is demonstrably false.  The method by which guns are made available absolutely impacts a serious risk to my life.  The risk of death by firearms is soon to pass automobile accidents.  This is exactly the issue.  Your insistence that it is a mere personal choice of how one chooses to defend himself is false.  Choosing to describe it as punishment does not make the reality go away.  Your moral demand that all communities must make guns available to citizens with minimal regulation is unreasonable and itself immoral.

My thoughts.  My deliberation here is not resulting in movement toward your view.  When you figure out how to allow your chosen method of self-defense to not affect others, then your argument will have moral weight.  Exactly what tighter regulation attempts to do is to allow most citizens the right to own a gun while limiting access to high-risk people in high-risk ways, essentially working toward your desired outcome. 

Cheers, Paul
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