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Erin Lodes

Cry it Out  - 
 
My 22 month old still has consistent MOTN wakes. She has gone to sleep independently since she was 8 months old, and naps beautifully as well. She will occasionally sleep through the night, but not consistently. Everything about CIO points to the bedtime routine, and we've been consistent for ages and she rarely cries at bedtime. So is it inappropriate to do CIO in the middle of the night?
She used to consistently wake and cry for several hours every night, and still sometimes does that, but more often wants a little attention and then is back to sleep. She asks for books sometimes (which she never gets in the MOTN) and sometimes a drink (which we often give) or her "stars" (turn on the twilight turtle star projector) which in desperate times, like when husband and I both had stomach flu last week, we did. Obviously those inconsistencies are an issue, we know that. During the day, she typically starts her nap around 11:30 or 12 and I always wake her at 2. We've experimented with only letting her sleep an hour and a half with some success. Left alone, she'd nap 2.5-4 hours. She goes to bed around 7:30 and sleeps till 7ish.
Thus my question - is CIO the right answer? I don't know what else to do. We could:
1) Cold turkey ignore her, maybe warn her throughout the day. Experience says this kid can cry a long time. She also recently started calling us (Mama! Daddy!) which makes me feel a bit guiltier.
2) Go in when she cries and tell her she needs to lay down and go to sleep, and leave. This will make her very angry.

Thoughts? Ugh. We really need some sleep. And baby number two comes in June...
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Erin Lodes's profile photoamy nomani's profile photo
6 comments
 
Does she snore when she sleeps? If you're looking at a toddler "sleep disorder" you could look into sleep apnea... Enlarged adenoid/tonsils relative to toddler size/development can cause snoring and breathing difficulties that can cause major sleep issues. 
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Dorea Ruggles

Nap Battles  - 
 
Hi folks - Going a little crazy here with our 20 month old's weekend naps. I feel terrible complaining - she sleeps 11 hours a night and naps 2.5-3 hours every weekday at day care. BUT the weekends have been hell recently. It's been a month since she's taken a nap on a Saturday or Sunday :-( She's tired (flopping down on cushions, walking around randomly chewing things). We follow the routine from daycare as much as possible, but when we walk out the door she starts screaming like she's being tortured. We're conscientious of reinforcing that if she screams she doesn't have to take a nap, but we can't handle it for much more than 30-45-minutes. She's also vomited before from crying too hard, so we worry about leaving her too long. Any ideas on what's going on here?  
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Dorea Ruggles's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
6 comments
 
Sounds like a reasonable schedule. If it's not too taxing to get her to sleep by rocking on the weekends, I would go with that unless you find out anything is changing at daycare.
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Lena Khor

Discussion  - 
 
Just read Alexis' "Bedtime: Everything Starts Here" post and am wondering whether it's (a) more important to stick to a consistent bedtime or (b) to maintain the window of time babies can be awake.

For a few weeks, we had a 6 p.m. bedtime for our 21-week-old baby because that's how his naps played out. But more recently, he sometimes takes 3 short 30-minute naps or takes 2 longish naps (1.5-2 hours--actually we woke him up after 2 hours, so I don't know how long he would have continued sleeping if we'd let him).

As a result his bedtime can range from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. depending on how long his naps are.

My questions are:
1. If he's having a long second nap, do we wake him up from the second nap so that he has time for a short third nap and still go to bed at an appropriate time?
2. If he's had three short naps, do we do a fourth nap and wake him up from that so that he goes to bed at an appropriate time?
3. I'd been told not to let babies nap for more than 2 hours. Why is that?

Also, is it important that the time awake before bedtime is longer than between naps? We've been putting our baby to sleep after two hours of awake time. But I've just read Alexis' post on how the window of awake time before bedtime is 2-3 hours for babies between 3-6 months old.

Thanks!
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Rebecca Trump's profile photoMeghan Slocum's profile photo
2 comments
 
I would start trying for a consistent bedtime. Personally I wouldn't worry about waking him up for earlier naps; I'd only wake him up from that last nap if necessary. We had to do this a lot with my daughter at that age. Sometimes her last nap was only 15-20 minutes, because any longer than that and she wouldn't have been tired for bedtime. 
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Amy Maffucci

Nap Battles  - 
 
I've seen a handful of posts recently about the 2 to 1 nap transition, so I'm hoping someone might have some helpful experience with what I have going on with my little girl.  I have two main questions.  1) How young is realistic for the transition? and 2) How the heck do I fit two naps into our crazy schedule?
Here's what's going on.  My daughter turned 11 months last week.  She's always been a good sleeper and chunky napper and transitioned fully to a 2 nap schedule at 6 months, so it's not crazy that she's starting to show signs for the transition.  Our schedule at 10 months was:
6:30/6:45 wake up
~9:00-10:00 nap 1
~1:00-2:30 nap 2
6:30/7:00 bedtime
11 months hit and we're all out of sorts.  She's been sleeping in longer in the morning - until 7:00 or later, which has made nap 1 harder to come by.  Because of work/life/her toddler brother, I really need nap 2 to stay no later than 1:30 and bedtime no later than 7:30, but I'm having a hard time finding enough hours in the day.  She's sleeping 12 hours at night, probably needs close to 2.5 hours of awake time before nap 1, and needs to be up by 10 am for nap 2 to happen.  My desperate attempt to keep our old schedule has resulted in a week of alternating days where she either skips nap 1 or takes over an hour to fall asleep for nap 2 (leading to a cranky kid at wake up).
I think I really have three options.  1) wake her up early (6:30), so there's enough awake time so she'll take nap 1. 2) push nap 1 to 9:30 and only let her sleep 30 min. or 3) continue to just kinda wing it and see what happens.  
Any thoughts on what might be most successful?  Or other ideas that I'm not thinking about?
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Patricia Wintermuth's profile photoErin Curlett's profile photo
2 comments
 
That sounds very similar to what happened with my son - two chunky, consistent naps for about 5-6 months and then right around his first birthday things got all weird as he began sleeping 12 hours at night. I don't have any solutions for you because we are still working it out at 16 mo (it's been a long and cranky experimental period). My son has always had a harder time dropping the morning nap rather than the afternoon nap, and capping the morning nap at 30-45 min hasn't really worked for him either (though I know many moms swear by this). I think everything you have suggested is a great potential solution, and it will really just depend on your daughter and what works for both of you. Best of luck! This is a tricky time 😁
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Julia Armstrong

Discussion  - 
 
I'm back for some thoughts on my 12 month old and the snooze feed...

Schedule:
Bed: 630
Wake at between 4:30-5:30- I nurse her, she sleeps (crib) until 7:30 ish
Nap: 11-1 ish

I'm struggling with the feed in the early am because it used to be pretty consistently 5-5:30. It seems to be creeping back to 4. I can't do 4. I'm so tired...We've tried letting her be until 5 but she will cry hard until then- we gave up after about a week of that because we were losing sleep and I don't see the point of doing that if I'm going in at 5 to nurse anyway (am I just rewarding the crying?) 

I am open to full CIO but I don't know if it's going to be useful at that hour. If you recommend that, what time should I get her up in the morning? She's used to getting 13-14 hrs of night sleep but only with the nursing.

Could I start the toddler alarm clock thing this early? Should I just ride this out? Others experience with the 4-5 am waking? She absolutely refuses milk/formula and pumping is not a thing I'm very successful at. She will take water in a sippy but if he goes in at 4 with that, she wakes up 20 min later and will scream until 5.
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Beedy Mejia's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
4 comments
 
I diverge:
I say if she is happy to sleep that long with the snooze feed, count your lucky stars and keep with it.

I would NOT do CIO after 10 hours of sleep. I cannot imagine it will end well.
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Priya Dharsini

Discussion  - 
 
Hi my daughter is 10 months old she has 3 naps during day 1hr,1.30hr,and 30minutes she goes to bed by 9 which is 2.5 to 3 hrs from her last nap u put her down awake in the bed after sleep routines but still I'm facing multiple nightwakings how to avoid this and make her sleep through the night
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Rebecca Trump's profile photoShmö Zanna's profile photo
7 comments
 
Lmk if this worked. My 10 mo is still waking up 3-4x a night to nurse even tho he goes to sleep by himslef like a champ 
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Lydia M

Night Weaning  - 
 
So my daughter, who is almost 25 weeks, wakes up twice a night to nurse, and hardly ever for any other reason. Like maybe she whimpers twice a month at a weird time, and she calms herself down. She goes to sleep awake, with a sleep routine, blah blah blah.


Last night I put her down at 7, and everything was normal. She ate normally, went to sleep awake like normal, the room was a normal temperature. At 9, she let out a scream like a pirate was kidnapping her, so I ran in. She was a mess, and screamed for ages. I tried to soothe her but nothing worked, diaper was fine, etc, and she kept screaming, so I gave her half a boob, and pulled her off while awake. I put her down and she started crying, and let her cry for 15 minutes. She hadn't calmed after that, and honestly I was worried, so I fed her. She ate a full meal.

Screamed at midnight. I was so disoriented that I fed her and put her down.

Screamed at 2:20. I picked her up, calmed her down, and put her back down without feeding. She cried for 20 minutes, and so I (Bad mommy!) fed her. Also, I live in an apt building, so I feel bad for my neighbors.

Screamed at 4:45. Fed her a bit, put her down awake.

So we have a problem. Obviously I hope this is a fluke, but neither of us know how to deal with MOTN wakings that aren't feeding related, because they happen so rarely. Also, she goes down awake (awake! I tell you!), so I thought that should fix the nights???

Also, she is fine this morning. No fever, tummy problems, anything. WTH???


What do I do? Halp, etc.
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Rebecca Trump's profile photoLydia M's profile photo
8 comments
Lydia M
 
So! We did 20 minutes in between nursing and night sleep, and she's been out for 2 hours, which is way better than last night already. And she doesn't cry when put down if she is calm. It's only if she's over tired that she gets to the puking stage.

Thanks for the tip - I hope this is what brings better sleep for all of us.
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Well if it weren't for +Alexis Dubief​​ I never would have tried this crazy get up. But after several days of 8pm-12am constant nursing to keep him from screaming, we had a good night last night where we got enough time to watch half an episode of TV, woohoo! Swaddling in the crib always led to a traumatic spit-up through the nose waking, so far so good in the swing. 🙌 
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Alexis Dubief's profile photoRebecca Phillips's profile photo
5 comments
 
Haha, +Alexis Dubief, that's what I've been told by pretty much all my friends! I'm gonna need a loooooot of wine to jump into that lake. 
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Hi everyone! Edited to add: Any tips on stay at home parents of a toddler and newborn would be appreciated! I believe we're on the other side of a growth spurt and he's back to sleeping well+falling asleep easily in the swing. I imagine this will help quite a lot once I'm home alone with the two of them!

Our new little guy joined us 2 weeks ago and while sometimes I feel rather confident in knowing what I'm doing, other times not so much (silent sobbing at 4am, why won't you sleep?!). What I'm really wondering/slightly panicked over is how you manage naps with a newborn while the 2 year old is awake.

I've been fortunate to have my husband take off 4 weeks this time around, so he's on toddler duty while I take care of the baby. But I feel like I'm needing to pull out all the stops to get him to sleep and often it takes quite a while between nursing, diaper changes, supplementing (had half a supply only despite months of trying to increase with my first) and trying to figure out if he's actually hungry or just wants to suck more because everyone has told me how if I overfeed him I'm condemning him to a life of obesity.

A bright living room with a shrieking toddler hasn't been very conducive to getting him to sleep, so I've been holing up in his room with the blackout curtains drawn, door closed and white noise on. But with said difficulty determining if he's hungry half the time, that process often is rather drawn out. He hasn't been sleeping well in the swing the past several days and I've gotten 2+ hours semi-regularly in the crib, so that's where he's sleeping currently. Once he's down, he sleeps well. I'd appreciate any tips or suggestions! 
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Erin Curlett's profile photoNicole S Kelly's profile photo
8 comments
 
+Erin Curlett​​ In general, it's better! Today has been a bit of a mess, but we had good sleep overnight so it all evens out. :) I think what has helped has been: tolerating a little more awake time that gets him a little more tired and ready to fall asleep quickly, not fighting the swaddle tooth and nail (as much) when he is awake before going down, figuring out that he gives hunger cues (wanting to nurse) to indicate he's tired so I shouldn't waste time trying to feed him again leading to getting overtired, that if he's really hungry he won't take the bottle and nursing when I have nothing left just delays another wake-up where he's going to need more to eat.

I have been trying to give Colin lots of jobs to help him deal with all the time spent feeding, diapering and getting to sleep like getting a diaper out, shaking up the bottle, etc. He's been doing so well. Lots of meltdowns, but honestly not more than usual! It's all going way better than I expected. It's super tiring and you just don't get a chance to nap unless you're lucky like you do with the first baby, but it's not the sleep deprived horror show I anticipated. :)
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About this community

Practical support for all things related to kids and sleep. Short naps, sleep regressions, bedtime battles, sleep training, etc. Also? Will be hosting free group video sleep consults. Drop in and check it out!

Cynthia Barrios

Nap Battles  - 
 
My son is 21 months and he used to take a nap around noon for about an hour an a half, but a few weeks ago that nap time started to drift a bit later (to about 1) and nap times lengthened to 2-3 hours. I was elated. The problem is that last week he started fighting the nap and is now staying awake until 3 PM (today it was 4) and then he can't fall asleep at bedtime. My strategy over the past few days has been to wake him up by 5 PM to try to get to a consistent bedtime around 9, in hopes of gradually shifting it earlier, but he's going to sleep later and later despite when I put him in bed. He's been waking up at 7, though the past couple of days I have had to wake him up. He's terribly grumpy for hours after I wake him up so our days have become pretty miserable and I am not sure what to do. I'm thinking of just letting him sleep in one morning and then not let him nap at all that day and go to bed early in hopes of resetting...is that crazy? 
1
Rebecca Trump's profile photoNicole S Kelly's profile photo
6 comments
 
Agreed about the schedule, especially as they approach 2 and behavior issues really factor in to going to sleep. 
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Lydia M

Discussion  - 
 
So my daughter (6 months) has a sneaky eat - sleep association. She was going down wide awake, but still associated nursing with sleep because it was part of our bedtime routine. Rebecca Trump was wise enough to suggest putting 20 minutes between nursing and put down, and that has helped somewhat with the night wakings.

But we're running into a different problem now, namely that my daughter is too interested in life to eat a full meal. So now my schedule looks like nurse - stall 10 minutes - do 10 minute bedtime/nap routine - nurse at wake up - life - repeat. So it feels like I'm offering the boob all.the.time. And I nurse on demand, but the only time she 'demands' is right before she sleeps, so it's more like I'm demanding that she eats at another time. And she's all no thank you bout that.

Tips on how to get her to eat more in one sitting? We're already doing the dark, quiet room thing.
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Rebecca Trump's profile photoAlexis Dubief's profile photo
3 comments
 
Ugh...distracted nursing is THE WORST. Sometimes it's a chicken/egg issue where if they're eating a lot at night they don't NEED to eat much during the day. You might simply need to stand your ground about the huge eating close to bedtime. No easy answers, thats for sure :P
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I declare myself guilty on this, but I do need your help!!
My toddler is 2 and she is used to fall asleep ONLY if I lie down with her.
It began about a month ago when she was sick, I slept with her a few nights
Nowadays the situation is this: she falls asleep with me lying down in her bed, then I sneak out and then she wakes once or twice or more times .... And stands on her bed and walks (she already felt down once so I'm afraid she could fall again) So I go, calm her and lie down with her and sneak about again...
I'm so exhausted... I don't remember when she and me slept the whole night.

Now I need to break the association, she is also very attached to me during the day.

My husband is saying the he would like to put her mattress on the floor and let her cry or ware we she does if she wakes up in the middle of the night

What do you girls suggest?

Many thanks 
1
Alexis Dubief's profile photoGabriela Martinez's profile photo
7 comments
 
Thanks Alexis. I will do this. Thanks you all girls 
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Nicole S Kelly

Discussion  - 
 
Hi everyone, I wanted to report back on something that came up a while ago - using a timer light for help with my guy who needs to be woken up in the morning (I know). I forgot I had a "sunrise clock" (I'm also a night person, go figure) to help me in the mornings some years ago which slowly fades a light on as an alarm to simulate a sunrise. Colin has needed to be woken up in the morning to keep his schedule (and naps too) for basically his whole 2.5 year life. About a week after starting to use it, he started waking up on his own. This has become especially useful now that we have a newborn that invariably is in the middle of feeding when I need to be getting Colin up. Now at least I have one less thing to worry about screwing up his schedule! I'm guessing a plain timer hooked up to a light would work the same, but since we had the fancy clock not being used, we did that. :) 
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Alexis Dubief's profile photoNicole S Kelly's profile photo
2 comments
 
I didn't find it helped me much at the time, but in hindsight I probably needed more sleep in addition to the light. :)
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Erin Curlett

Nap Battles  - 
 
Help! Has anyone had luck extending the nap of their toddler after transitioning from 2 to 1? It seems my almost 16 mo son has made the 2-1 transition (after months of battles)! But now his one nap is very rarely even close to 2 hrs; it's closer to -1-1.25 hours. He has been averaging 11-12 hours uninterrupted at night. Yesterday I tried the leave him for 90 min tactic (he fussed on and off for 15 min after sleeping 1.25 hours). And I guess I'll keep doing this for a week? Has anyone else tried this and seen an increase in total nap time? We've never really worked on nap extensions (when he was younger we had no need - he slept like a beast) so I am feeling a little out of my depth.

Also, perhaps related - this morning he woke up at 5:45 rather than 7, which has been his new mormal. Could that be overtiredness?


Thanks!
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Rebecca Trump's profile photoErin Curlett's profile photo
7 comments
 
+Rebecca Trump It's funny; we had to put him to bed at 8pm last night because we were late coming home...and he woke at 5:45 again this morning. 7pm-7am really seems to be the sweet spot for us. It will be interesting to see if he makes up that time in his nap today (I am doubtful, but we'll see).
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Ivy Chang

Discussion  - 
 
Talk to me about overseas travel. Currently planning a 2 wk trip to Italy. Munchkin will be almost 3 by then. She currently sleeps in a crib in her own room - great overnight sleeps and one afternoon nap. Since she's used to sleeping by herself in a dark room, we usually get hotels w a suite (for domestic travel) and set up the portable crib in the separate living room area for naps and her earlier bedtime. I'm not finding suites like this where we're going. Should I spring for two rooms (my mom is also coming so we'll be 3 adults + munchkin) or will it be a waste because nap/sleep schedule will be so off from jet lag? 
1
Beedy Mejia's profile photoDanielle Gunter's profile photo
3 comments
 
I was one of those with a post about international travel. It was in spring of 2015. We live in Europe and traveled to the US to visit family with our 9 month old daughter. I was worried about jet lag and how that would affect sleep. But I had read a lot before our trip and everything said that if you keep the routine as much like home as possible, the jet lag will go over quickly. So we kept meals at the same time as she normally had them at home and she did awesome! She had pretty much no jet lag after the first day. Suites are pretty rare here in Europe - you're thinking like Residence Inn/Homewood type places probably. They don't really exist here. If it isn't too late you could try looking into an apartment rental. I've found places on VRBO before and that's worked out well. It's nice to have a kitchen to prepare breakfast, etc. and many of them provide cribs too.
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Sarah Wilde

Discussion  - 
 
My 23 month old (who had been sleeping through the night since 12 months and going to sleep on his own since 7 months) has started waking 2 or more times a night, and fighting going to sleep both at naptime and bedtime. He'll scream bloody murder unless I am in the room with him. I tried letting him cry one night because my usual back rub-good night-leave the room routine wasn't working, and he screamed for 4 hours. It only stopped because I finally just rocked him to sleep. We have neighbours, I can't let him scream all night!

What do I do? The last few nights I sat in the room with him for the 30-60 minutes it takes for him to fall asleep, for bedtime and each nightwaking, but this just doesn't seem sustainable. Plus, it seems like it's taking longer and longer as he keeps checking that I'm still in the room. Any ideas? CIO worked at 6 months, but he's so stubborn and persistent now. I think he will outlast me. I'm losing my mind.
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Sarah Wilde's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
4 comments
 
Schedule looks good. He won't likely make it easier based on his age. How you respond determines how it goes.

The best advice I got around this time was: You no longer have a sleep issue, you have a behavior issues. Respond however you would to any other unreasonable request (e.g., demanding candy for breakfast).

Treat him more like a kid than like a baby.

And, talk, talk, talk. I suggest a 'who sleeps where' game. For FUN during the day play a game of where does babe sleep? Where does daddy sleep? Where does doggy sleep? Where does lovie sleep? Where does mommy sleep?

Establish the norms and what is expected of him during daylight hours.
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Kerri Anguiano

Discussion  - 
 
I was looking on advice for moving my 3 year old daughter into her own bed. We currently Co-sleep, but will be having a new baby in April. My daughter moves around too much and kicks for all of us to safely sleep in our bed once the new baby arrives. I want to try moving her to her own mattress in our room first and then eventually into her own room. I was just wondering if anyone has done this and how they did it? I just brought the toddler mattress into our bedroom and have it at the end of our mattress. I'm buying some Peppa pig sheets and blankets for her mattress. I have already started talking to her about her sleeping on her own mattress. IF anyone else has any other advice on making this work, let me know. Thanks!
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Ivy Chang's profile photoAlicia Waldon's profile photo
 
I would try posting again. I'm surprised no one has responded!
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A few pictures of our new little guy Erik! And for fun I made this collage of Erik and Colin at about the same age. I think they might be related! 😁 And Colin helping shovel, looking so grown up. 
4
Nicole S Kelly's profile photoKids Songs Club's profile photo
3 comments
 
Hello! He's so cute! And has a very charming face. :)
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Yet more 2-1 nap transition tips needed. In an awkward spot timing wise and trying to decide whether to "force" down to 1 or shorten the time btw nap #2 and bed. Morning wake time is already as short as it can get w/o him refusing the nap (3 hours). 13 months.  
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Rebecca Phillips's profile photoErin Curlett's profile photo
12 comments
 
+Rebecca Phillips Thanks for letting me know! It sounds like our sons are pretty similar...we can't do morning catnaps, either. This week I've been keeping him up for 3-3.5 hrs in the morning and letting him sleep as long as he wants...one day it was almost 2 hours (omg it was amazing - I napped, too!) but mostly it's an 1-1.5 hrs. Some days he's catnapping in the afternoons and others he's not...but yeah, he's been up for 7 or 8 hours before bedtime and seems to do okay as long as he gets an early-ish bedtime (some catnaps have pushed bedtime LATER, and that's been kind of strange and inconsistent...still trying to figure that out). It's encouraging to hear he's not the only one who prefers morning naps. (And sorry I didn't reply to your earlier message - I didn't see it until just now!) 
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Ladies would you please share your 2 yo toddler's schedule with me?
Specifically how many hours after they wake up do they take a nap? For how long and then how many hours after nap they go to bed?
How do you manage the days when they just don't want to take a nap? Mine melts down at 5pm...

Thanks
1
Gabriela Martinez's profile photoKelly Wiley's profile photo
6 comments
 
Wake up ~630, nap from 130-330ish (a little longer on weekends) and in bed to sleep by 8. No nap days we just kind of take it easy in the evening. Try not to include anything too demanding. Perhaps push up bedtime a bit (15-30 min?). I am hoping the "2 year sleep regression" blows over... it's been a doozy for us... night-wakings more than nap-skips, but a little of both for fun! sigh
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