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Hey guys.. just want your opinions cuz im not really sure if im doing things right with the CIO.. i'm on my 3rd night.. Im still not quite sure what to do after nightwakings..

so bedtime routine as usual.. but i do nurse and fill him up burp him and then put him down at 6:45..

1st night:
13 mins crying then check and pick up.. consoled and put down
11 mins crying then finally fell asleep
8:10 woke up.. i fed him but he fell right back to sleep after so i put him down..
9:03 woke up.. checked after 10 mins of crying
9:40 nursed and put him down he cried for 3 mins before falling asleep
10:30 woke up.. i changed diaper (usually the time he gets uncomfy with his diapers before CIO) rub his back then left he fell asleep without much protest and stayed asleep til 3:45am to nurse then back to sleep waking at 5:45am

2nd night:
15 mins of crying then checked put down
cried for a minute then fell asleep
8:16 nurse down sleep
11:45 nurse diaper put down
13 mins of crying then fell asleep12:21
12:39 woke cried for 3 mins
12:44 cried 3 mins checked put down
12:50 sleep
3:40 nurse and sleep
5:45 waking time

Right now on day 3 he only cried 3 mins at bedtime..

Im quite unsure if it's alright if he fell asleep during night feeding.. i cant really remove those feedings all of a sudden because he was so used to feeding every 2hrs when co-sleeping before cio.. and i want to clarify how to console so that you wouldnt end up letting him fall asleep with you and at the same time maintain the consistency..

I really need an asurance on how to proceed....
Rebecca Trump's profile photoEmina Agnam's profile photo
Ok thanks.. il keep that in mind.. good thing were only on day 3.. he seems to be doing well he didnt eat at 8pm today anymore instead woke up at 4:40 he doesnt fall back asleep so its goodmorninh for us >.< im just nervous that if i make the wrong move we might crash into more crying.. thanks a lot for your response il apply what ive learned :)
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Ashley Gardner

Cry it Out  - 
Hi - I've just read most of the articles on troublesometots and we started CIO last night, but I have a few questions. First- some background. My 6.5 mo old boy is a terrible sleeper. He has never gone to sleep easily, or stayed asleep. When I went back to work at 12 weeks, I resorted to co sleeping so I could get up in the morning and function during the day, but that just isn't cutting it anymore. He naps horribly as well- usually one or two 20 minute naps a day.
We do a bedtime routine, and I know daily schedule could be more consistent, but three days a week are at daycare, two days a week are home with daddy, and weekends home with both of us, so it isn't super consistent during day times.
He is used to being swaddled, paci, white noise, rocked/bounced to sleep, and then as soon as back touches the crib, he is awake and it starts all over again, for an hour or more each night, only to wake within 30 min to an hour.
We can't go on like this anymore. I am a zombie. I know my baby needs more sleep too. So- CIO- here we are.
1- How do I deal with night wakings right now? Last night, he took 1 hour of crying, then at an hour, I went in, picked him up, and he fell asleep immediatly, and stayed when I laid him down, but he woke 90 minutes later. What should I do then? What should I do later in the night? Do i wait to deal with those times later?

2. Any other suggestions for me? Suggestions for better naps, anything longer than 20 minutes? I pray that when night time sleep improves, nap times will come along side with it.

maggie h's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
You got a few things working against you here. With so few naps you probably have an overtired baby come bedtime, which makes CIO very difficult. You also probably have a suck/ sleep association. Move nursing further from bedtime. At least 20 minutes. Also when you go in after so long of crying at bedtime and baby falls asleep with you that's essentially crying without CIO. The only reason to CIO is for baby to fall asleep on their own. Now you have a baby who knows to keep crying and you'll come, so the rest of the CIO road might be tough. Finally is baby in the crib? Perhaps a swing would make this easier on everybody.

I'd continue to handle the night wakings however you have BBBbeen, and work on nailing bedtime. In other words no nursing near bed. and no soothing baby to sleep even with your presence. Again, I'd also try a swing.
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Kara Reynolds

Nap Battles  - 
Good morning!

We might be in the middle of an 8 month sleep regression (LO just stopped going to sleep on her own at night a couple of nights ago so back to the swing for now,  at the same time she stopped what had become her new normal 1+ hr naps in the crib and really only wants to sleep on me, etc.), but I wanted to ask for some advice on getting her to fall asleep on her own for naps too.

Earlier I had tried the Eat-Play-Sleep routine, but ran up against the usual hunger issues associated with it and a younger baby. However, I thought it was a pretty good schedule and she was generally fine with it. I think I'd like to go back to that now if possible. She's eating three solids meals a day with nursing "snacks" to get her down for her naps, at bedtime and once during the night.

Do I approach eliminating nursing to sleep for naps the same way we did for bedtime? (Start with the swing on high  and slowly decrease speed.) I just put her in her swing for her first nap today (no nursing) at 7:30. She cried for about 20 minutes straight and now is doing a periodic fuss/cry (every few minutes). So not asleep but definitely not awake, from the type of fuss/cry.

I don't know if its important, but I've never been able to rock or sing her to sleep. She just pushes against me and cries realllllly loudly (until I nurse her! Ha!).

Also, if there is a specific post on this on TT (soon to be Precious Little Sleep!) I can just reference that, but I couldn't find one that really answered my question.

Rebecca Trump's profile photo
Not sure I follow. Sounds like you're already handling no nursing to sleep with the swing. Go with that.
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Hi all, I posted a while back and things have been pretty good up until recently. My son is 12 months (11 adjusted) and in the last couple months he's learned how to army crawl, how to go from laying to sitting on his own, and pulling to stand, plus he has 2 molars slowly coming in. In the last week or two he's learned how to crawl normally, take steps while holding on to something, and how to chew on his crib. Oh, and as of Friday he has a terrible cold.

Anyway, for the last month or so he's been fighting his naps. I used to nurse him to sleep, but that stopped working so I'd sing him a brief lullaby and put him in his bed. This usually worked but sometimes he wouldn't fall asleep, or one of his naps would be super short.

Since he's been sick, though, the lullaby thing hasn't worked and he just cries in his crib for a long time before he either falls asleep for 30 minutes, or he doesn't sleep at all. Previously this kind of behavior would only be for one of the naps, but now it's happening for both. I would think he'd be more tired since he's sick, but I can't get him to nap!

I'm not sure what to do, I feel horrible letting him cry for naps and I'm not sure if it's doing anything positive. It's not like the amount of crying is going down at all. I'm wondering if I should just do 1 nap chunky nap instead, but maybe that wouldn't be enough sleep for him.

Here's how the schedule looked before the horrible cold and such:
7:30/8 wake up, 9:30/10 nap, 11:30/12 wake up, 2:30/3 nap, 3:30/4 wake up, 7:30 bedtime routine, 8 in bed. 1 night waking between 1am & 5. He would maybe fuss a max of 10-15 minutes before falling asleep at any of those naptimes.

Now it's more like this: 7/7:30 wake up, 9/9:30 nap (30-45 minutes of crying, 30-40 minutes of sleep), up at 10:30/11, nap at 1:30/2 (same as last "nap"), wake up at 2:30/3. I try to start bedtime at 6:45, in bed at 7:15. Night waking at 12:30am and 5am. Sometimes those are rough and long because he's so congested. He still goes to sleep fine at bedtime. With the crib chewing I'm wondering if the times I think he's napping are really just him happily chewing on the crib.

I know I should comfort him more while he's sick, but I'm not sure what to do. He needs to nap and he doesn't fall usually fall asleep in my arms. I'm sick too and I'm no where near getting better because I'm getting little sleep myself. I put him down for a nap 45 minutes ago and he's been crying ever since.
Ashley Peel Smith's profile photoMeghan Slocum's profile photo
12 months is definitely on the early side to go to 1 nap, but it does happen. My daughter dropped down to 1 nap on her first birthday. I know that +Alice Smythe Davidson and +Nicole S Kelly also have babies who went to one nap early.

It's also possible that he's willing to do 2 naps under certain circumstances, but not when hanging with you. My daughter, for instance, would've kept 2 naps for much longer if I'd let her take them in the Ergo or the car. (She was a big motion junkie.) But I wanted her to nap in her crib--and in order to do that, she needed to be extra tired. 
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Erin Curlett

Discussion  - 
When you suspect teething, do you guys just dole out the Tylenol at night wakings? This little guy (6mo Sat) is chewing on everything during the day, but his gums aren't inflamed or anything. He is also working on skills - trying desperately to figure out how to crawl...and is miserable at night. He falls asleep unaided but is waking 2-3 times. Before last week, he was STTN (and had been for 2 months). I haven't been sure whether to feed him (growth spurt?), just cuddle/sing, give him meds, or some combination of the three. I don't want him to get in the habit of eating at night, but there's also a part of me that wonders if he needs to eat since when I offer him a bottle he eats like he's famished. Tylenol does seem to help....but he's not actually cutting the teeth yet, so I don't want to give it to him if he doesn't actually need it (especially if this is going to last for a while)!! Thanks for any advice!
Kelly Wiley's profile photoErin Curlett's profile photo
Thanks, all! I think it must be a growth spurt and not pain after all...after this post I stopped the meds and started offering him a bottle when he woke - and he seems to be doing much better! The last two nights he's made it through the night until 5 or 6! Much improvement from the midnight and 3am wakings...Thank you!!
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Suzann Moore

Night Weaning  - 
I've got a almost 8 month old that is still getting up every 3-4 hours at night. Schedule is: 7-7:30 bed time, which is bath, dress, nurse, book, rock w/songs and into the crib with lovey awake. She goes down within 15 minutes with variable fussing. She wakes between 9-11 and then again between 12-2 and 3-5.  She's awake for the day between 5:30 and 6:30, naps regularly at 8:30 -9 to 10-11, and the afternoon is either 1:30 -3:30 or short 40 minute nap followed by a second short nap around 4-5 that's also about 40 minutes to an hour. Teeth, illness and reflux are all complicating factors. My husband thinks our attempts to taper her Zantac dose is unrelated to the night wakings. But, I feel like might be soothing with night nursing as she's really trying to nurse for an hour if I let her. At night, I'll get her unlatched, she fusses and then back in the crib (in her own room) and she'll fuss maybe 2-3 minutes before sleeping again. I feel like an epic failure in the sleep category, despite the amazing win of getting baby to sleep on her own. Totally lost in what to try next. We did a few days of controlled crying at the first waking, which worked once and then deteriorated as mom and dad lost nerve after a full hour of tears. Thoughts?  #sleep  
Suzann Moore's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
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Oh my gosh its been almost a year since I posted?? where has the time gone??? Baby Q is over 2... sleeping 11 hours a night still but night waking and coming in our bed, can't complain though I love the cuddles, we all still sleep and he's my last and I already miss the up every hours nursing sessions... why I was so crazy over wanting him to sleep and now I miss it ugh... oh well... I lay with him the nights I'm home until he falls alseep, nap times since my oldest is in school now I sleep with him, I'm dealing with some health issues that are never going to go away so I sleep when he sleeps, its a must :) ... aw my baby is over 2 wahhhhhh
Alexis Dubief's profile photo
" I already miss the up every hours nursing sessions"

What? WHAT?!?! Well if you want to hang out with your little dude every hour all night long you can definitely start rocking him to sleep and I'm pretty confident you can have that back ;) 
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Megan Bob

Discussion  - 
Please please help. My son is 5 mo. He wakes up hundred times at night. When he's up for feeding he eats asleep and I put him back to his bed asleep. Then he wakes up 5 min later. So I pick him up and hold him, rock him a little bit and so. Put him down asleep and then again after 10 / 15 min he's awake. So I hold him again or give him a little but patting. And he's back to sleep again but again for a very short time. It drives me mad this constant getting up to him. He eats 3 times a night and then there are another 4/5 times more when I have to pick him up and soothe him. It's exhausting. Can anyone help me with any advice please? 
Megan Bob's profile photoAlexis Dubief's profile photo
Really anything as long as it's:
a) full sized (not a travel swing)
b) if it's a Fisher Price, make sure it doesn't say "smart swing technology" on the packaging as that means it'll shut off after 4 hours. 

So any newish full-sized baby swing you can get your hand on (check used first!) should be fine. Cheap is great - the mamaroo is $$$ and you don't need to spend that much.
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I was wondering if anyone might have tips on handling jet lag for infants. We are traveling in May and there will be a 6 hour time difference from home. I know we'll probably have to sleep train again when we get home, but I was wondering how to handle the two weeks we are away. Our daughter is 8 months old and STTN. She has two to three naps a day (we're in that transition phase). Should we begin adjusting naptime and bedtime slightly before we leave to get her closer to the new time zone? Or is it better to just take it as it comes?
kate Nicoletti's profile photoSharon George's profile photo
There is some great advice here on international travel and dealing with jetlag. Look up posts from Erica Adams under "discussions". We recently had to travel to India with a 20 month old and a 10.5 hr time difference. The advice I got on this group was really helpful. 
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Ok daycare moms. Quick question. As toddler gets older (almost 2.5) have any of you noticed problems falling asleep at night because daycare let them sleep late?
Mine goes to daycare 4 days a week and when he's at home we tend to nap him from 12:30-2 so there is plenty of time before bed. The daycare lady says She gets them up by 2:30 but last Thursday and Friday he went to daycare and my monkey didn't fall asleep until 9pm. He goes in his crib by 7:30 and is usually asleep by 8 when he is home with us. Today he went to daycare again and tonight he didn't fall asleep till 9. I think it's pointless to put him down at 7:30 if it takes this long to fall asleep but most nights he is super grumpy by then and we don't know what else to do.
He has Been shortening his Naps at home a bit too.
I guess I'm curious to see if anyone else has had this problem and if shortening nap helped or extending bedtime helped?
Laura Coffin Mendez's profile photoAndrea MacArthur's profile photo
Thanks for your responses ladies! +Laura Coffin Mendez I don't think she knows how long E is actually sleeping but I'd say at least an hour. She has said that sometimes he babbles for a bit before falling asleep but he doesn't often do that at home. I wish she would do sheets or an e-mail with an outline of the day, but she was pretty clear that she switched to home daycare because of all the extra paper work and red tape involved in where she used to be. So I usually ask the next day but because there is no video monitor so it's also hard to know for her I think.
I thought about DST as well but tonight confirms its mostly just happening on day care days. He had a long weekend this weekend and was home fri-sun so I wonder if maybe that made a difference. It took him ages to fall asleep tonight. Almost 2 hours.
I think I may just have get her to wake him at a set time no matter what. Sometimes she puts them down for nap later so that will mean a short nap but I really don't know why else he would have such trouble because unless he doesn't poop he is fine for bedtime when he naps at Home.
Anyway thanks for your response!
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About this community

Practical support for all things related to kids and sleep. Short naps, sleep regressions, bedtime battles, sleep training, etc. Also? Will be hosting free group video sleep consults. Drop in and check it out!

Lisa Harris

Discussion  - 
Hello! You guys are so kind I wondered if you would help me figure out a plan. I can't decide what to do so I thought I would ask another question! Sorry.

My daughter is 9 months now. She is doing well with naps and night sleep on the whole. Naps she is swaddled in a moving swing. Night she is swaddled in a stationary swing. I am not bothered by this, but she is starting to wriggle a lot in the swing so I figure maybe its time to try the cot.

I don't want to put her swaddled in the cot at night because she is pretty old now and I think she may well roll. I would rather leave her swaddled in the swing than the cot. Sensible?

I have a couple Zipadee zips lined up.

I think I will leave naps alone for now.

My question is shall I try Zippy in the swing first - although I think she will wriggle even more then.... or just plump straight for the cot?

Help! (or not - on the scheme of things I know this isn't a big deal and I should just try one!!)

Thanks for reading :)

Rebecca Trump's profile photoLisa Harris's profile photo
Haha yes I do agree. And I KNOW I will look back in a couple months time and it will all be a heartbeat. She has STTN quite a few nights this week, so it definitely works ;) thanks for the support. It helps a lot, it really does xx
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My 2.5 year old has been a lovely consistent sleeper (about 10.5 hours at night and 1.5 for nap) until recently, when he's decided that naps are not for him. And it used to be that if he skipped a nap, he'd just fall asleep instantly at bedtime (instead of his usual 45 minutes of singing in bed before sleep) so he'd make up some of his lost sleep then. But now with no nap, he's staying awake for about 60-75 minutes after bedtime (and of course still waking up at 6am) so he's only getting about 10 hours of sleep total every day. We've kept his routine and schedule consistent, thinking it was just a phase that he'd eventually get through, but it's been about 6 weeks now and things are getting worse, not better. He's even starting to fall asleep in stroller/car in the afternoons, something he rarely did as an infant! 

So any suggestions on whether we should just keep to his current schedule (11:30am nap and 7pm bedtime) and hope things improve soon, or should we try changing something? Thank you!
Jennifer McGowan's profile photoLindsey Noggle's profile photo
Hi, Jennifer!  We did it for the morning first since he was having good night sleep, but the same day did it for his nap, too.  I did it for both, just so we could stay consistent.  We just say, "when the clock turns green, it is time to get up, and Mommy will come get you".  He really does well waiting for it, and if he by chance is asleep when the clock turns green, it doesn't wake him.  

Hope things get better soon!
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Marsha Patoki

Early Morning  - 
Ok... Early wakeups and napping: We've been dealing with early wakeups with our 12 month old for 2 months now (before 5am some days ugh!) I've been trying different things to fix the early mornings, to no avail! He won't nurse and go back to sleep anymore, cosleeping never worked for us :(. I'm currently moving bedtime back 30 minutes (from 7:30 to 8), but so far no change on the wakeup time. So with the loss of night sleep, I'm not sure how to handle his naps. Do I let him sleep over the recommended 3 hours during the day to avoid over tiredness, or do I cap the naps so he's not getting too much day sleep. Thoughts?
Gayatrri Musraca's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
How long has the later bedtime been in effect? What's the length of the last stretch of awake time?
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Sara Chong

Discussion  - 
Hello! again :)

At 7 months we did CIO successfully and got 6-5 at night with 1 feed at 3. We got a better nap routine of 1.5 hrs and 30 mins using a 3/3.5/4 gap. This went on for 3 months. She survived my in laws living with us and didn't skip a beat with sleep.

Then out of the blue- 2 weeks shy of 10 months- we get 1/2 hr naps both naps and 2-4 night wakings. Some she is able to cry to sleep, others she stands at the cot rails and wails. I've gotten un-strict from being worn down and fed her, whereupon she will go back to sleep. The 4 am wake up she now refuses to sleep and we have let her sleep on us a couple of times and at others just gotten her up as she won't sleep at all.

What is happening? Have I somehow undone the sleep training? Is it a regression??
Alexis Dubief's profile photoSara Chong's profile photo
Okay, I will try to feed her more- she tends to drink very little when it's offered during the day each time, sometimes sucking then pulling away once I let down, even though I feed her in a quiet spot which she is familiar with. I could cut her solids intake to facilitate milk drinking.

However she is not interested in milk during night wakings except for the early morning one at 3am. I'll try to push the milk more and see how it goes!
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Due to lack of time to post, I just made this quick video discussing some topics that have come up a lot recently related to sleep associations and "drowsy but awake". I hope it helps!
A brief video addressing 2 common questions related to bedtime:
1) "Drowsy but awake" - how awake is awake enough and how do you know?
2) What happens if you're doing everything right AT bedtime but seeing no improvement in night wakings? What is the likely root cause and how do you fix it?
This Hangout On Air is hosted by Alexis Dubief. The live video broadcast will begin soon.
Confusion about "drowsy but awake" and persistent sleep association issues.
Mon, March 23, 11:30 AM
Hangouts On Air - Broadcast for free

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Early Morning  - 
Back with another question about STTN and early rising. My 1 year old was sleeping from 7:30-6 or 6:30 for a couple months with only occasional night wakings (once or twice a week). For the past week he's been waking up sometime between 3 and 5, screaming his head off, and not returning to sleep. What is up with this?

If I help him go back to sleep or lay down with him he'll sleep until 8 AM. I don't really want to do this, because I know the wakings will just creep earlier and I'll have a night waking monster again. But what do I do? If I leave him to cry it out, he'll scream for 20 minutes, fall asleep for 5 to 10 minutes, then start the process again until we all have to get up and start the day. 
caitlinjfitzpatrick's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
What's the bedtime routine? How do you respond to the MOTN crying?
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Lisa Harris

Discussion  - 
Hello. Me again. Just a quick question. My baby 2 is almost 9 months now. Using all Alexis's advice she has STTN the past four nights. Yipppppeeeeeeeee. Swaddled and in a stationary swing so I am going to write my real gushing thankful victory post when we have weaned off those. However, this morning she woke at 5.15am. We left her 5 mins but after 10 hours sleep clearly not going back to sleep so gave her paci and she went back until 6.30. My son just used to get up for the day anytime after 5 so this is good. Just checking its wise to give the paci after say 5am? She has never had it to settle at bed, I used to give in the night sometimes. Planning to keep for her nap until she goes to 1 nap then pacis are gone from my house!! Thoughts?
Rebecca Trump's profile photoLisa Harris's profile photo
Thank you! I will give guilt free ;) x
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Since my baby started to stand by herself (around 11 months ) she wakes up frequently at night. I don't know why she feels the urge to stand almost immediately.
Most times she goes back to sleep as soon as I lie her down (she does not lie down by herself at night ever if she does during the day) and stays asleep for 5 minutes and then awake and standing and crying again....
it can happen as many times as I put her down maybe 5 times...many times I take her to bed with me and she sleeps but other she wakes and stands even being with me.
my husband and me are thinking that she is just spoiled or demanding attention. But I have no heart lo let her cry for more than 10 minutes
She just transitions to 1 nap and some days she wakes from nap 45 minutes aND if I go and help her she may sleep for another 30 min, but some other days she can nap for 1.30 straight
Any suggestions?
Rebecca Trump's profile photoGabriela Martinez's profile photo
Thanks Rebecca. As always your comments are very helpful 
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Emily Conley

Nap Battles  - 
My baby is 15 months and she has never really slept well but I think the time change plus 4 molars coming in have really done a number on her. She's been waking up at 5 am after just 10 hours of sleep, and she's been waking up after just 30 minutes-1 hour of nap, and she only naps once a day. I'm not opposed to letting her cry it out and I've done it before but it doesn't seem to work well when she wakes up too early in the morning or wakes up too early from nap. Should I just stick with letting her cry it out at those times or is it probably just going to be a losing battle? She's exhausted and an absolute wreck all day because of it. I do give her ibuprofen for her teething pain but it doesn't keep her from waking too early from nap. I also give it at bedtime and have tried to give another dose when she wakes at 5 hoping it will help her get back to sleep but it doesn't. 
Emily Conley's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
When we were dealing with early rising, I'd have done ANYTHING to get some zzzzzs in the am. If bringing her to bed with you gets everyone sleep, I say go for it.

You could also try separating nursing from bed, but I'm not sure that's what's causing the 4am drama.  

I say pick the lesser of the 2 evils, whichever that is for you.

Hope the naps are working out better!
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My baby is 3 months old, and I'm working on putting him down awake (in a swing, where he sleeps for naps and nights).  Is some amount of fussing and complaining just par for the course?  How long do I let him fuss and complain before I go in and soothe him to sleep?  How do I help him be put down awake comfortably?  I'm struggling here, I feel really terrible letting him complain for any amount of time but I know I need to somehow conquer putting down awake.  Help!!
Rebecca Trump's profile photoMeghan Slocum's profile photo
Absolutely agree with what +Rebecca Trump just said. I hate the AAP's line on this, because it makes parents feel like they're doing something wrong if their baby isn't sleeping in the crib. There ARE, of course, plenty of unsafe sleep choices you can make for your baby--but I firmly believe that the swing is a safe option. Please try not to feel guilty about your baby sleeping in the swing! It's an awesome tool at this age. And for some of us, it's an absolute LIFESAVER. My daughter was a hardcore motion junkie, and I really don't think we would've survived without the swing. I plan on putting any future babies in there from day 1.

To actually answer your question, though my daughter was in the swing starting at 8 weeks. (Because that's when we finally bought a swing!) She slept in there full time. Before I started working on put down awake a little before 5 months, I always nursed her to sleep and then put her in the swing. After we mastered put down awake, she was still in the swing for a long time--until about 7 months at night, and more like 10 months for naps.

Your baby will get out of the swing when he's ready. And try to ignore what other people think about where your baby's sleeping. :) Best of luck! 
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