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K Lee

Discussion  - 
 
Hi all!  My now 6mo old was putting himself to sleep for naps (with a shout of protest and often asleep by the time I closed the door) in a non moving swing.  Long story short - that's not happening anymore.  Summer travel and learning to roll and scoot everywhere have put us back to square 1.  Because of rolling (and our swing broke) he is now in a crib and gets hysterical anytime I lay him down for a nap.  I'm trying really hard to do drowsy but awake but he flips out and even with pick up/put down 100x he can still fight a nap for over an hour.  If he does fall asleep (in stroller or car) or if I lay him down asleep in the crib it only lasts 20-30mins. 

Since traveling he wakes every 1.5-3hrs at night.  Last night he did fall asleep in his crib without nursing to sleep (did pat his bottom for a bit) but his longest stretch was only 3hrs then up every 1.5.

Scheduling is a bit all over the place since there is a toddler in the house also but there is the same general routine before every sleep attempt.  Help!  
1
Rebecca Trump's profile photoNena Caviness's profile photo
8 comments
 
Thanks +Meghan Slocum and +Rebecca Trump! It is a relief to hear that the transition will be easy once it comes. My monkey is four and a half months old. He's been sleeping in the swing without motion for about a month. We returned to the swing last night much to his major relief. Will try the crib again in a while.
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Okay sleep wizards...thoughts on capping naps?

Our 1 y.o. has begun needing an hour + of gymnastics in her crib before falling asleep at night. And generally she is also taking a longer time to fall asleep at naptime (20-45 mins.) While she's been teething a bit that doesn't tend to throw her off all that much, so I think the culprit here is not having enough wake time in between sleep times. I'll admit to being very reluctant to cap her naps. (Maybe it's just mommy's PTSD from months of 30 minute napping? Different topic!)

Her naps vary from 1 1/2 hours each to 2 1/2 hours. Usually closer to 90 minutes. Her nighttime sleep seems to be netting out around 9+ hours.

Schedule:
Wakeup between 7-730 (occasionally closer to 8)
Morning nap- down at 930, but often awake until 10:15 or later
Wake up between 1130-12
Afternoon nap - down at 230, often awake until 3 or even 330. 
Wake up around 430 or 5. We wake her at 5 if she isn't up yet.
Bedtime 830, but often awake until 930-10, but sometimes as late at 11 :( 

She seems to average about 9-10 hours at night, and 3 - 4 hours of napping during the day.

She cries a lot when being put to bed but once in her crib she doesn't cry, she just hacks around and plays, fairly actively. She seems on the tired side by 830-9pm, but she clearly isn't tired enough to fall asleep.

Do I cap her naps to extend wake times during the day? Or just go with the flow and follow sleep cues, since she's pretty happy and rarely fussy, despite wanting to stay up waaaay past mommy's bedtime?
1
Natalie Schinco's profile photoPatricia Wintermuth's profile photo
8 comments
 
That's great Natalie. We've never been able to get a earlier bedtime than 8:30 even with long (4-5 hrs) wake times beforehand. I think we have a true night owl
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Katie Buisson

Short Naps  - 
 
My 12 week old has consistently been taking only 30 min naps (to the minute). She doesn't get much sleep at night (7 hours total on a good night) so it concerns me that she's not getting enough sleep during the day. I try to keep her awake period to 1 hr 15 min or so, but she shows very little signs of tiredness and usually fights going to sleep pretty hard especially as the day goes on. (I bounce her, swaddle with paci and then take out paci once she's sleepy before putting her in swing. We have loud white noise and blackout curtains.) After she wakes, she'll lay in the swing for a bit and then will start to cry so I pick her up at that point. I've tried getting her back to sleep but it's never worked. Sometimes she's so fussy after that nursing is the only thing to soothe her but she usually just gets sleepy and doesn't actually eat much. Plus it's only 2 hours in between feeds so I'm not sure if she's actually hungry. Any advice here? Do I just need to accept these short naps for now? Everyone says 3 months is a turning point but I'm having my doubts. Plus bedtime is a whole other issue. Thanks!
1
Katie Buisson's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
4 comments
 
I know nada about reflux, so pardon my lack of addressing that aspect of this - which certainly can't help anything.

Here's a more detailed response:

1) I know nothing of things looking up at 3 months. More commonly I hear that things hit the skids at 4 months. 

2) Check out this detailed post on short naps: http://www.troublesometots.com/monumental-guide-to-short-naps/

What Alexis describes under the heading "Disrupt the Sleep Cycle" is also called "wake to sleep" in internet land. You can google more about but I suggest starting with Alexis' description.

3) I'm confused about bedtime. You start the routine as soon as she wakes from a nap?  More fundamentally, it sounds like you're shooting for a very early bedtime for a newborn. 9pm bed (or later) is much more common than something 7ish at this age. I'd scrap the early attempt at bedtime and, instead, shoot for 9pm-ish (adding in another evening catnap, if necessary). It's also common for babes to need a slightly longer stretch of awake time before bed, so perhaps go a little beyond that 1 hour and 15 minute mark.

4) For these early morning feeds, I'd treat them like MOTN feedings, doing them super dark and boring, then put her right back in her swing (once you can) and hope she keeps sleeping. With a 9pm bedtime, I'd do this until at least 7am.

I hope some of these ideas help!
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Erica Gardner

Nap Battles  - 
 
Hello! I don't know if this is a "nap battle" inquiry or just sleep in general. My 24 month old has been sleeping less and less, it feels like, without us changing anything. He currently goes to bed between 8:30-9, and wakes up between 6-7am. . He has been taking one nap around 12:30, which only lasts a hour. This seems like far too little sleep to me. I have been part of this community since he was born, and we have a great bed and nap routine, his room is dark, quiet white noise and a gentle fan. We talk about sleep stuff during the day, and I rarely go in to get him when he fusses. Today, as I write this, he has been standing in his crib, crying (off and on) for 30 minutes straight. Thank goodness he hasn't tried climbing out, but I know how tired he is, and am not sure what to do. Any and all suggestions I am so thankful for!!
1
Rebecca Trump's profile photoErica Gardner's profile photo
6 comments
 
+Kelly Wiley I'm so sorry I didn't get back to you!! We are still hit and miss...I'm trying to just chill and accept that his sleep patterns will just have to be enough. 10 hours at night, one hour for nap. How about your little one? I agree with +Rebecca Trump on consistency and this being totally normal for two year olds!!
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Meghan Slocum
moderator

Success Stories  - 
 
Keira turned two last week, and I just wanted to take a minute to thank +Alexis Dubief, +Rebecca Trump, and all of you other wonderful people who have helped us over the last two years. I firmly believe that we would not be in this great sleep place without all the wonderful advice from TT and this group. I am so grateful that I stumbled upon TT back when I had a week old baby who refused to sleep in her crib. Or nap for more than 40 minutes at a time. Or, eventually, nap at all unless she was moving. We've come a long way. 😃

All of you on here with little babies, things WILL get better! Be strong, be consistent, and hang in there. 😄

+Nicole S Kelly, happy birthday to your Colin, too! And I hope everything's going well with baby #2. 
6
Natalie Schinco's profile photoAlison Gabriele's profile photo
4 comments
 
My daughter is 2 years, 3 months and I think about this all of the time. I essentially stopped reading everything except this site and the Google+ postings and it was so liberating to be able to rely on one source. You are all so helpful and I can't wait for +Alexis Dubief to become rich and famous. I am sure I will be back because naps are starting to be fought and I guess we will have to ditch the crib at some point but in the meantime, but to everyone who is currently tired and miserable- there is definitely an end in site.
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Marja Slabaugh

Discussion  - 
 
I'm new and need some strategies for how to wean an almost 10 month-old off needing to suck to sleep. We didn't start out like this, but a few months ago when he began stretching out the time between his feedings, they naturally fell right before naptimes and bedtime. Now he just won't settle without it (it's my own fault, I should have known better, I wasn't able to bf my oldest so I have been enjoying the snuggle and rock time so much that I didn't think about the "monster" I was creating). He has never taken a pacifier or a bottle and has never sucked his thumb or exhibit other self-soothing type behaviors. He also don't respond to motion, doesn't fall asleep in the car or stroller. He's actually not a bad sleeper, we just went through the 9-month sleep regression (I hope anyway) and his typical routine is: Wake for day 6:30/7AM, nap 9:30-11:30, nap 2:30-4, bedtime 7/7:30PM. Now that we're through the regression (fingers crossed), he wakes once to eat, usually sometime between 2-4AM, and falls right back to sleep. So apparently he can put himself back to sleep but I've conditioned him to not do that at bedtimes. I would like to try a more gradual approach before moving to CIO, suggestions? I'm reversing his bedtime routine that used to end with nursing to start with nursing but any other ideas would be welcome!
1
Alexis Dubief's profile photoMarja Slabaugh's profile photo
5 comments
 
LOL, I think if you did a survey, it would be one of those "4 out of 5 dentists agree" situations. I'm giving him a little time to see if he will wean off it with a little encouragement, last night he was allowed about 8 minutes of pre-bed nursing (his main feeding happened before storytime, etc., and was put to bed sleepy but still awake. Tonight I will shorten that to 7 minutes. So I'll know by the end of next week if we're headed to cryitoutsville :-p
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Priya Dharsini

Discussion  - 
 
Is it okay to introduce a pacifier at 5 months.recently I have become a human pacifier for my 5 months old daughter.any suggestions
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Priya Dharsini's profile photoCl Wo's profile photo
5 comments
Cl Wo
 
You can try... My son had same problem and wouldn't use them but if it works then great 
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Du Iv

Discussion  - 
 
Hi, my 19 month old daughter has a terrible sleep. We done cio when she was 9 month old and it worked just briefly. Since then we passed a lot of different phases( teething, early waking, motn, etc). The last week she had severe stomach virus so I moved her to my bed, and in that way we lost the only thing that work till now, her falling asleep on her own.
I'm so exhausted and depressed because I really don't know how to change this situation. I barely sleep at night. Before she got sick I left her cry for few nights but it was so violent and it last till the morning. It use to give same results when she was younger, but now she can scream for hours without falling asleep at all. My neighbor started to complain (we are living in apartment). Also in last month she has developed separation anxiety and she wants just me to settle her down.
I stopped nursing her because I thought that this could be a problem but it seems that this make her more attached to me.
I would be grateful for any advice.
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Rebecca Trump's profile photoDu Iv's profile photo
4 comments
Du Iv
 
She used to go to the bed and fall asleep without help. I would put her in her crib and then left the room. But maybe in total we have just few months when she used to sleep through the night. In last months we were dealing with early morning wakings, so we used to give her a bottle and she would fall asleep again. But lately she started to wake 3-4 times during the night. Every time very angry and upset. So I have to rock her and after some time she wants to go back to the crib again.
In last few days she is sleeping just with me in our bed because she also was upset when we where all three together.
If I decide to avoid CIO how much would it take to try to make change gradually?
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Alexandra May

Night Weaning  - 
 
Hi. Just wondering if anyone has tried to wean a 16 onth old off an only 3.30-4.00am feed, sometimes it can be 4.30, and he gets up anywhere between 5.30 and 6.30. I just feel that if I try, we will be starting the day at 4ish (horror). I am currently waiting to CIO again, once he is over jetlag
1
Meghan Slocum's profile photoAlexandra May's profile photo
4 comments
 
Thanks Megan! Will give it a read
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About this community

Practical support for all things related to kids and sleep. Short naps, sleep regressions, bedtime battles, sleep training, etc. Also? Will be hosting free group video sleep consults. Drop in and check it out!

Natasha Rajan

Early Morning  - 
 
My 7 month old has a 5 am awake issue. There are a few things going on and I know what may be causing it. We just got back from vacation where naps were mostly happening on the go or were short even if they happened in the crib. Throughout the vacation the bedtime stayed fairly consistent. However now that we are back home I have an overtired child with a messed up nap schedule and a 5 am wake up problem. She wakes up crying at 5 am, feeds properly and is sleepy throughout the feed but as soon as I put her back down she is wide awake and cries/fusses instead of going back to sleep. I have tried going back in at 6 and nursing to see if she will sleep but that usually doesn't help. We usually leave her in bed until 630-7am.
Her rough schedule when it worked was:
Wake up 630-7am
Nap#1 at 8 or 830 (sleeps 1hr or longer if lucky)
Nap#2 around 1130
Nap#3 around 230 or 3 depending on nap 2
Bedtime 7pm

I know what the issues may be (overtired, scheduling, bad naps) but I am struggling with how to fix it all. If she doesn't sleep from 5 am to 7am, what time should I put her down for nap#1. If I put her down at her usual time (830) i am risking a short nap and messing up the rest of the day due to overtiredness. If I go by wake time then her nap would be at 7 which pushes the whole schedule up and doesn't help fix the 5 am wake up problem.

Just need some ideas on how and what to tackle first. She is sleep trained and puts herself to sleep. Sometimes with some crying for naps now that most naps were on the go during vacation. 
1
Nena Caviness's profile photo
 
Seems like you may just have to resort to a bit of crying until the little darling rights herself. Sounds like a tricky situation! 
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My 9mo is on a 2 nap schedule and sleep has been a bit up and down due to (I think) teething and learning new movements. When sleep is going well, he's on a 2/2.5 -- 3/3.5 -- 4 schedule. (Times are a bit variable bc we're trying to stick to set nap times +/-30 min). As far as the root causes, we are doing pain reliever when appropriate & avoiding carseat/bouncer/stroller so he can move a lot. So the question is - naps aren't usually short enough to warrant a third nap, so which wake times are the best to stretch to make up the difference so everything doesn't shift too much? Or is that a pretty individual thing? 
1
Rebecca Trump's profile photoRebecca Phillips's profile photo
4 comments
 
Ok great, thanks! We will work on locking it in! 
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Ruth Reynolds

Cry it Out  - 
 
What's a relatively better night time routine (6 months): pacifier but going to sleep by oneself (with re-incerting pacifier until she falls asleep) or bouncing to sleep but generally no sucking involved? 

I've worked really hard to not nurse my baby to sleep but somewhere after the 4 month sleep regression that lasted nearly a month...she decided that she wants to suck/nurse to sleep. She found her thumb and so I tried to increase offering the pacifier to avoid a habit but it's really just fed her need to suck, I think. I really wanted to implement the swing method for night time but my husband just felt that was "going backwards" even though the reality is that if I've been bouncing her (after nursing before bed), that really, I've been the human swing in her room. 

I'm really struggling with how to let her fussy or cry a little bit because she gets really worked up and then wants to nurse to calm down. And I'm just exhausted at the end of the day and just need a break. It's so frustrating that it seems that despite my good intensions, she likes to nurse to sleep more now at 6 months than before the 4 month sleep regression! Around 3.5 months,  I actually could put her in her rock in play awake and rock it (from behind where she couldn't see me) and she'd fall asleep with no sucking at all! Now, she pushes her legs and screams without a pacifier or her thumb. I'm slowly transitioning to the crib, and tonight, after nursing and then bouncing for a few minutes, laid her down with a pacifier in the crib and just left the room. She would fuss a bit when the pacifier fell out, and then I'd go back in and put it in. It took about 5 times putting it back in so probably 20-30 minutes and then she fell asleep with it in her mouth. So, no bouncing to sleep. and no me, but with a pacifier ...  I feel like neither situation is ideal for "going to sleep by oneself" but I'm also not really ready for all out CIO. I might not be for a few months. Which is better: me bouncing but no sucking or pacifier ?
1
Rebecca Trump's profile photo
 
My quick and dirty opinion:

Options 3 or 4 instead of 1 or 2: Thumb sucking b/c she can do it on her own and/or swing, b/c it doesn't require your intervention.
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Rachell Gautz

Nap Battles  - 
 
Help! My 33-month-old started preschool last week and I'm afraid it's thrown off what was a decent routine: nap after lunch (usually around 1, but edging into 2), bedtime at 8. He would do the usually stalling but stay in bed once I got him in. Now he naps fine at preschool from 12:30 - 2:30, but at home, he climbs out of bed as soon as I leave the room. He climbs out of the crib as well. Today we spent 1.5 hours trying to get him down for nap (despite him practically falling asleep before I put him in bed). Bedtime is equally difficult. Any strategies? I've even been desperate enough to try sleeping with him, but that just seems to wind him up all the more (he was up until 11pm the last time I tried this at night).
1
Rachell Gautz's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
7 comments
 
I can't imagine. Best wishes for sleep for all!
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Dorothy Summers

Discussion  - 
 
When my lo was 9mos. old we were finally able to sleep train her. It was really hard and long but successful and so completely worth it. After that point she was able to put herself to sleep independently which was amazing!  She would still wake to nurse but I was always able to nurse her then she would fall back asleep. Eventually I was able to night ween her and she was sleeping through the night!! Well now she is 18 mos. old and has been back to her old ways pre sleep training for a little over a month now. She get's up around 12 am and will be up until 5am!  My husband and I are completely loosing our minds.  We have tried to let her CIO but screaming for over 2 hours is really our limit which she was doing for a week before I just caved in and am doing whatever i can to get her to sleep, however, nothing is  working. I know she is going through a major growth spurt but this has been going on for too long that I'm afraid it's just a habit now. Any helpful words, or encouragement are much needed. Thanks for listening!
1
Dorothy Summers's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
3 comments
 
Best wishes!
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Priya Dharsini

Discussion  - 
 
Hi my 5 months old daughter is waking within 1 to 2 hours after I put her to sleep at night. She opens her eyes and sees then she closes her eyes and tries to sleep by herself but by around 5 minutes she cries as she can't do it. So I have to rock the swing and make her sleep.why is this? Any suggestions please
1
Rebecca Trump's profile photoPriya Dharsini's profile photo
4 comments
 
Oh thank you Rebecca.
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Ok my almost 9 month old was doing awesome- and now he's trying to kill me. He has been waking up between 4-515 for over a week now and I don't know what to do! We did the swing method so he has been falling asleep on his own at night for months, and he now falls asleep in his crib for naps by himself (for the most part) he generally sleeps through the night, goes to bed around 730. He still does 3 naps (especially with such an early wake time). I have tried leaving him and letting him fuss for a bit, feeding him and putting him back down, bringing him in bed with me. None of it works! Suggestions? 
1
Rebecca Trump's profile photoMeghan Slocum's profile photo
5 comments
 
Agreed! And I think the 2-3-4 will be a great place for you to start. 
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Priya Dharsini

Discussion  - 
 
Hi I co sleep with my daughter 4 and a half months old, even though when she wakes in the middle the environment in which she falls asleep doesn't change, she is restless and can't put back to sleep by herself, even if she sees me she is not content. She needs sucking to put back to sleep. And this happens several times in nigh, sometimes every hour. Any suggestions please we both need a good sleep
1
Rebecca Trump's profile photoCl Wo's profile photo
6 comments
Cl Wo
 
I know it's young... All I know is my own experience... Which is that I started cosleeping BC my son would not sleep for longer than 45 min without a boob in his mouth, which started suddenly at 4 months. I tried everything, no cry Techniques, separating nursing from bed was impossible BC would essentially be CIO since that was what happened when he didn't nurse to sleep, rocking and everything else did not help. Anyway I tried to wait it out hoping it was a regression or phase. Couldn't do CIO BC recurrent ear infections at 6-9 months. Finally at 9 m we did CIO and it worked, but it was v tough, and he still regressed every time he was ill or his schedule got slightly off, and at times without these issues. I feel like the 4-9 months I coslept with him for him even more used to or addicted to nursing to sleep and it was so easy for him to regress... Maybe if he had better habits from age 4-9 months he would not regress so many times I dunno. Now he is 23 m and he sleeps In his crib but has early waking ... Anyway I know several ppl that did CIO with checks (aka ferber) at 4 months when their babies nursed to sleep and it worked wonders for them... My pedi had suggested it but I was too chicken and scared to harm my baby. But Ferber does say it can be done in 4 m olds and this is an age where many babies can't sleep without nursing so I feel it's probably ok. I will do it with my next baby! CIO changed my life. My 2 cents. Good luck! 
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Would you all limit nap sleep with a sickie? My son napped almost 5 hours yesterday across 2 naps (part of it because he kept waking up in discomfort I think) and then he was up for about an hour in the MOTN not crying, just talking. I know night sleep is the most restorative but instinctually I'm inclined to let him sleep whenever until he's better. 
1
Rebecca Phillips's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
4 comments
 
Oh, jeez. I'd say limit day sleep only if nights are awful at such a young age.

That said, the 2,3,4 schedule is common at that age, meaning 2 hours between wake up and first nap, 3 awake hours before second nap, then 4 hours before bed. Thus, shooting for 4 hours between the end of the last nap and bedtime is a reasonable plan.
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My son is 20 months old, and his usual sleep schedule is - in bed by 8pm, lullaby projection star, hug teddy bear, lights out, falls asleep on his own with no complaints. He usually wakes up somewhere around 7:30. Nap time is noon-2, sometimes less (especially at daycare).

Recently, he started sleeping in some on weekends, but on those days he has a hard time with his nap. On week days, my husband continues to wake him up at 7:30 for daycare and his schedule is largely the same. However, a couple of days ago he started waking up around 5 or 6 am and crying for a while, mostly whimpering in his pillow. I found that going to check on him just wakes him up more and makes the whining window go longer. He ultimately goes back to sleep, but last night it took a whole hour and now he slept until 10:30 am. He's clearly more tired after these restless episodes and on weekdays it can make him crankier in the morning.

What should I be looking at changing? Has this kind of thing happened to any of your toddlers? Any suggestions welcome.
1
Rebecca Trump's profile photoZuzka Bodik's profile photo
4 comments
 
I am dealing with a similar thing with my 20 month old. Amazing progress in vocabulary and speech over last couple weeks but crappy sleep. I am trying to be patient. Our issue is bedtime - she falls asleep on her own for nap, fights bedtime and demands to be rocked. Sleeps all night after that. Our schedule is nap 12:30-2:30, bedtime at 7:30pm. 
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Priya Dharsini

Discussion  - 
 
Hi my 4 months old daughter sleeps 6 to 7 hours at night but past few days she is not sleeping well.Actually her schedule in the day time is I will give a bath around 9.30, feed her and she 'll become sleepy but partially awake when I put her in the swing then she sleeps for around 2 hours. Then next nap starts after 1 hour from the wake time I will follow her sleep cues like rubbing the eyes, then I will feed and put in the swing partially awake. Then she sleeps like 1 to 2 hours. Then next nap starts by 6.30 evening sleeps for half-hour to 1hour. Then bedtime starts by 8.30 to 9 following her sleep cues she sleeps for 5 hours minimum then wakes for feeding and again sleeps till 7.30. But now the naps haven't changed but bedtime is horrible she is waking every 3 hours and takes more than 1 hour to sleep.to make her sleep I rock the swing, feed. Don't no how to make her sleep for long stretch please help.
1
Beedy Mejia's profile photoRebecca Trump's profile photo
4 comments
 
4 months is pretty young for teething, but not unheard of.

Could just be the sleep regression, which is hard to beat.

However, could be that 1 hour or so is not enough sleep debt for a 4 month old to be able to have a solid night (even if she's showing sleepy cues). I'd try making bedtime a bit later for 5 or so days and seeing what you get.
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