Developing a method for tagging, tracking, and identifying filament for 3d printing in machine-readable formats to eliminate the guess-work.
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Ross Hendrickson
moderator

Implementation  - 
 
Looks like we have everything that I need to get the new tab to hook it all up in the UI. I'm working on a conference submission right now (distributed physics calcs in #golang) so I've got to get that in a good state before I can turn to getting our plugin in place. We'll have to duplicate the webcam URL settings so that we can pull out the snapshot to run the QR recognition through unless we can grab them from the other settings? I'll do some more digging as I get closer.

https://github.com/foosel/OctoPrint/blob/devel/docs/plugins/gettingstarted.rst
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Ross Hendrickson's profile photoGina Häußge's profile photoJuan Gonzalez Gomez's profile photo

Whosa whatsis
owner

Manufacture/hardware support  - 
 
A discussion popped up and has been going through a couple of threads in the 3d printing community about a developing a standard for using ribbon cables to wire everything together. I've taken over and dictated that pins on the cable to the extruder need to be set aside for a data protocol (probably I2C, but RS485 and a few others are under discussion) for use with UFID and other peripherals. I just realized that I should cross-post here for feedback.

I'm currently trying to find the best way to arrange the the data and thermistor pins to avoid crosstalk, and I'm thinking of interleaving those with each other to get them away from the FET-driven pins that are switching significant current. +Camerin hahn, this sounds like it's related to what you do, right?
Ok, here's my new idea for standardized ribbon cable pinouts, based on the discussion… - Whosa whatsis - Google+
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Whosa whatsis's profile photoDan Lipsitt's profile photo
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Camerin hahn
owner

Implementation  - 
 
+Whosa whatsis, +Ross Hendrickson, and myself had a meeting recently. We decided that what we need to focus on is a proof of concept build. So here is a summary.

Where we are today:
We have a standard
We have a web interpreter. This will read tags and make slicer profiles.
We have a code generator.
Volumetric extrusion has been implemented in marlin and smoothieware

What we need to do a proof of concept:
M-Codes to write a code to EE-Prom (+Whosa whatsis )
Internal workings to adjust some print parameter based upon the EEprom data(+Whosa whatsis ??)
Program for scanning QR codes and translating them to M-Codes (Me)
JavaScript M-Code generator (Me, but after whosa writes the programer)
Grab a frame from octoprint and pass it to the code interpetter (+Ross Hendrickson )

That is the plan right now. If we have other ideas that people want to implement and work on we should discuss them here in the computer. I saw +Richard Horne had some things he wanted to discuss. My finding is meetings are good for organizing resources, but the community is great for sourcing and discussing ideas.
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Ross Hendrickson's profile photoCamerin hahn's profile photo
4 comments
 
Unfortuanatly progress this weekend was nil due to ZBar not playing nice in windows... I found one build that worked... but it came with malware and i had to do a system restore...
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Ross Hendrickson
moderator

Development of the standard  - 
 
UFID October Meeting

Lets just chat about what we want to do next. Anyone can join. Drop proposed topics in chat.

http://whenisgood.net/j9ygh53

If we have someone from Lulzbot who wants to come we will be trying out a FOSS video chat system. There is a public server one and I spent some time this last week getting my own private server up and running. All you need is a recent build of Chromium or Chrome (WebRTC based client).

+Camerin hahn +Whosa whatsis +Sanjay Mortimer +Justin Nesselrotte
Plan the time to have your meeting or event by co-ordinating availability with all the particpants using this fuss-free online tool.
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Whosa whatsis
owner

Discussion  - 
 
 
I heard back from the +Electronic Frontier Foundation about the whole #takerbot  thing today. Turns out their project to fight bogus 3d printing patents was a temporary thing, headed up by someone from Harvard who is no longer there. Aside from that, they don't do a lot of PTO work, so they probably won't be taking on the case formally, but they did offer to point me to some resources and to see if some other organizations like +Public Knowledge would be interested in taking on the case.
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Daid Braam's profile photoRojer Wisner's profile photo
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Good luck - and really sorry to hear that this has come about this way. Good luck - it is an important endeavor to undertake. Hang in there.
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Camerin hahn
owner

Measurement of material  - 
 
Hello,
This summer i am working on material test optimization.

This piece is going to be what we used to make our color/opacity samples with. We know you could 3d print these samples, however by varying infill/bottom layer/over extruding/under extruding, you could dramatically change some of these measurements. this will force the material into a captive chamber and make an injection mold.

The plan is to use #E3d's heat break, heat sync, fan, thermistor, and heating cartridges for the time being. (Eventually we would like to get away from the heat sync as this part will not need the compact/light cooling mechanism. We would rather have something that is less expensive to machine.)

This is a rough drawing, i am still playing with some of the measurements that will be done with this. Currently the sample is 10x20, i am thinking about making it 10x40 so we can do strain testing on the same part.

Important information:
In the sample area, the walls need to be cut with at tapered bit, a square bit will result in a sample that is impossible to remove.
This is designed to do a "sudo" injection mold using a heated block. It isn't closed to designed or prototyped.
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David Rorex's profile photoCamerin hahn's profile photoalain frenois's profile photo
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+David Rorex Those run around 1K and only take pellets (and still need a die to be cut), we want something around $100-$200, that takes filament.

I was interested in that part as well. I am working with a guy that used to do this as part of his job, he was saying if we don't care about resolution, just heat up the mold to temp, then squish plastic in. It wont be the prettiest shot, it is allot cheaper.

There are some challenges that need to be worked out with this, but it should work.
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Ross Hendrickson
moderator

Development of the standard  - 
 
UFID Meeting June

http://whenisgood.net/tnzpmcgas

Proposed Agenda

Slicer Integration updates
Vendor Adoption
Measurements Standards and Methods
Resins and Powder update
Spool Design Updates

+Justin Nesselrotte +Whosa whatsis +Camerin hahn

Everyone please reshare to people you want to sign up for the meeting. Remember we can only have 10 people in a hangout and we will try to find a time. If there are distinct groups I will set up more than one event.
Plan the time to have your meeting or event by co-ordinating availability with all the particpants using this fuss-free online tool.
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Camerin hahn's profile photoRoss Hendrickson's profile photo
 
I have a bit if an update for measurements and standards... Will post in a bit.
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Ross Hendrickson
moderator

Development of the standard  - 
 
For interested parties, here is the hangout on YouTube.

UFID May Meeting: http://youtu.be/IEtQKZAewnE
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Marcin Lukasik's profile photo
 
Thanks Ross!
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Camerin hahn
owner

Measurement of material  - 
 
So we do need to start working on a measurement system if we want real adoption to occur. Filaments are being developed at a rate that is faster then we a vendor could test them... I want to have a brief discussion with respect to what that would look like, and what limitations we would have on each part.

Part 1:
Hot end force measurement against hot end temp. This would require a hot end that operates at both very high and low temps (so all metal). This will be a huge challenge for flexy filaments.

Part 2: calibrated color and opacity checker, should be done on filament that has been heat cycled. I am thinking that using a fat nozzle into a 1cm alu cube (very basic injection mold)

Part 3:
Plastic data sheet should contain the Tg, material content, and other stuff in the standard.
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Miguel Sánchez's profile photo
7 comments
 
+Whosa whatsis if desired, a there color band filter may help having frames that provide filament color information too.
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Joshua Rowley

Implementation  - 
 
An update on how things are going WRT UFID at E3D:

Some of our filament now goes out with a sticker on it containing plaintext print settings as well as the UFID barcode. 

Technically the system works well, however we have the problem that collecting good data that we are happy to put on the side of our spools is proving to be a fairly time-consuming task, and because we are growing our filament range quickly it is also relentless!

To combat this I have started to write a very basic website that will allow users to submit filaments and their physical properties to our database. This covers things that cannot (or at least should not..) be disputed, like colour, filament diameter, max temp, tg, etc..

Then within each filament "printing profiles' can be uploaded (covering printing temperatures, etc..) - these may vary for different applications and can be up-voted/down-voted.

The intention is then to seed this database with our filaments and ask those that we sell to to submit settings they found to be optimal. 

The initial outlay of effort for this from my side is quite high though, and we have been very busy making improvements on v6 so it has taken a bit of back-burner, but over the next few weeks I hope to make some tracks into it - especially if +Ewan Jones can help out! :)

If well implemented, I feel it could be a useful tool for the wider community. 
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Camerin hahn's profile photoEwan Jones's profile photo
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I'm just cleaning up the code and I'll post an implementation on GitHub/BitBucket but we're not quite ready for public users just yet. Hopefully, when it's in a more useable state, we'll ask for some beta users who are willing to help populate the database and share their experience. 
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This seems very interesting. I am interested in making a stand-alone extruder/hot-end controller.  It would use a USB based barcode scanner to identify spools and a memory card to store information about the various attributes to optimize printing (temps, print speeds, etc).  It would use i2c to communicate with the main control board of the 3d printer.  What is the status of this project?
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Ross Hendrickson's profile photoWhosa whatsis's profile photo
7 comments
 
+Nick Benik BTW, I'm working on a standard for ribbon cables (because I used them on the Bukito design, and they were a HUGE improvement). The proposed standard currently includes i2c communication lines to the extruder.

https://plus.google.com/105535247347788377245/posts/6gPeQmmvWCC
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Camerin hahn
owner

Discussion  - 
 
I wanted to update everyone with why I have not posted. After reading through my NDA for my day job, I had some concerns with the wording. I am have one more meeting I need to schedule to finalize my exemption of UFID from my NDA (making the company aware that I am taking about these things publicly, and they agree that it is not a conflict of interest for me). This took longer than I thought it would, it will be a bit longer before I can continue to publish things.

I have not forgotten, but wanted to insure everything was on the up and up legally.
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Ross Hendrickson's profile photoGina Häußge's profile photo
5 comments
 
+Ross Hendrickson​ pah ;)
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Ross Hendrickson
moderator

Implementation  - 
 
Feedback before I start real coding, everything looks like it should workout ok. I do need to know what Mcode to send things to / which branch of Marlin I should use on my local machine to work against

https://github.com/foosel/OctoPrint/issues/691
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Ross Hendrickson's profile photoGina Häußge's profile photo
14 comments
 
Started cleaning up the template code today, wanted to combine this with looking into tab, navbar, sidebar etc plugins from templates. About the type that communicate with the printer, do you also need the back-loop, or would it, for a start, be sufficient to only be able to send commands? I wanted to enhance the Plugin base class so that it gets a minimal toolbox full of common things (e.g. event manager, plugin manager, logger etc) from the get go, the "printer" object could be a candidate there too.
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Whosa whatsis
owner

Manufacture/hardware support  - 
 
As discussed in the hangout, I've been shopping for i2c eeprom chips. I've decided to order this one to try:

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?keywords=24C02C-I%2FP-ND&stock=1

This appears to be a pretty common and inexpensive part, and it has a page size large enough to fit the entire UFID code. We could have gone with an eeprom as small as 265 bits, but that would have been broken up into 8 pages of 32 bits (4 bytes), which would probably make the reading/writing a bit more complicated.

We also might want to consider moving the 2-byte spool volume block forward a byte (switching places with mixture ID) so that it doesn't cross the 128-bit boundary, which is another common page size. BTW, color would also be split across two 32-bit pages, if we went with one that small.
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Camerin hahn's profile photoWhosa whatsis's profile photo
4 comments
 
So apparently I forgot to submit my order for these, so obviously I haven't done anything with them yet. I just submitted the order after realizing that the order I thought I had placed was long overdue, so I don't expect to have them until after the holiday.
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We should probably have another meeting soon. It's been quite a while since our last one.
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Marcin Łukasik's profile photoRoss Hendrickson's profile photo
3 comments
 
Not dead, I've been dealing with some personal issues so have not been pushing for meetings as usual. I'll get out another invite this week. 
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Inside3DP

Discussion  - 
 
Here's a review of most #filament  recyclers in the market. Let us know if we missed any! Thanks 
http://www.inside3dp.com/cheaper-3d-printing-review-filament-recyclers/
Filament recyclers can reduce the costs of 3D printing and make the technology greener. We reviewed most of the machines available to consumers.
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Laird Popkin's profile photoItai Levitan's profile photoDave DeWitt's profile photoalain frenois's profile photo
 
Interesting article, but (1) it's really about filament extruders, not recyclers. It turns out that grinding prints, bottles, etc., for recycling is a very hard/expensive problem compared to filament extrusion. And (2) you really should credit Lyman with kicking off the home filament extrusion stream of projects, by making a solid initial design and sharing it. Pretty much every filament extruder is based, at least indirectly, on Lyman's work.
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Camerin hahn
owner

Measurement of material  - 
 
At the current time i am working on measurement systems for UFIDs. Right now i am looking at parts for the Force vs. temperature measurement. i am thinking that a 10 Kg force sensor should be enough to handle typical extruder forces (given mechanical advantage is used properly). what do you think. For reference that would imply 180 n*cm on the filament drive without mechanical advantage, I am thinking.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9375
or
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10245

I know these are being used on the delta leveling, so compatibility should not be a problem. I am concerned about using the high mass load cells as we will be operating near the bottom of the detection range.
SEN-09375: This is a force sensitive resistor with a round, 0.5" diameter, sensing area. This FSR will vary its resistance depending on how much pressure is being app
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Whosa whatsis's profile photoCamerin hahn's profile photo
23 comments
 
+Gert Galjoen, +Whosa whatsis  Force wont work, I think the best metric would be a encoder wheel being pulled by the filament, but that is going to have issues.

You cannot trust the extruder, as teeth sink in. Force doesn't work for the same reason and the viscosity of the material will change the force (heat changes the viscosity.
 

Edit: Force should be used as feed back for the temp though, keep them motors working at their optimal toruqe at low and high print speeds.
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Whosa whatsis
owner

Discussion  - 
 
Takerbot is trying to steal UFID from us too.
A supply of build material such as a spool or cartridge is instrumented with a data tag that includes information about the build material. A three-dimensional printer can read the information from th
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Stephanie S's profile photoRichard Horne's profile photogregory chapuis's profile photoSteve Simpson's profile photo
14 comments
 
I will have to do some research to determine the date when our spools got "barcodes". My best guess is between 1-3yrs. We added alpha-numeric product identifier when we first started shipping in 2009. Alphanumeric can be machine read and decoded by OCR. UFID was the first I heard of adjusting print parameters based on data parsed from feedstock labels.

I only skimmed over the patent app, but it looks like more "Do X on a 3D printer". One of our placement machines (2007 vintage) uses QR codes or serial data on everything, automagically adjusting process to suit the identified fixture, nozzle, or feeder. The systems described are widely used outside 3D printing.

I don't think they care if it the patents are legitimate. My bet is: They just want to increase their patent count to lure investors, increase valuation, and cash out.
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R Miloh

Discussion  - 
 
I'm working on some quick overview documentation of the UFIDS workflow as I see it.

It will probably have some errors that you all should point out so I can fix my understanding and improve it.

The idea is to create a simple graphic that shows how the standard will be used by and useful to machine vendors, filament vendors, and machine operators. 
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Camerin hahn's profile photo
 
Can you post something that shows where you are at, and how that is coming.
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Camerin hahn
owner

Discussion  - 
 
To all of the EU people in the group. We want to know what times are good for you. We are going to try and make these happen monthly, one month it will be a normal time for people in the Americas, the other will be at a normal time for the EU (assuming there is interest).

This is your chance to speak up before next month. we do want to find time for you guys (Note for me EU evenings are almost impossible as they land in the middle of my day job but we will try)
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Whosa whatsis's profile photoMarcin Lukasik's profile photo
8 comments
 
yes, sorry.
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