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Tiarnán de Burca
7 months agoPublic
This morning I visited the Creationism Museum.

I'm finding it hard to even explain how bad I felt. The only time I've ever felt this bad because of somewhere I visited was a concentration camp. I'm not comparing the crime, only how it affected me. The juxtaposition of lies, smiling children and a gift shop freaked me out.

Emptiness, sadness, a cruel parody of museums. Children running around, enthusiastic to learn, parents proudly reading lies to them. Children gathered around the animatronic Noah enplaning how there was room on the ark for all the dinosaurs.

I felt I was at a funeral for someone I loved and everyone else wanted dead.

Relentless, creepy disembodied voices "The lord said...", "Eve was created as man's helper", "dragons are dinosaurs". It was soul destroying.

Museums scream of progress to me. They have problems (Anyone seen the receipt for the Elgin marbles?), but they are cathedrals to learning. They show how far we've come. They promote and value education. To sit in one with such a corrupt purpose is obscene.

Nobody got a t-shirt. I couldn't do it. I needed to leave.
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Sam Hopewell7 months ago
This is depressing.
Mary Johnstone7 months ago
My family has considered going as a group to the museum (since it's not far from my old Kentucky home), but every time we realize that we'd rather not give them money.+1
Tammy Wu7 months ago
Wow.  I'm surprised such a thing exists, but probably shouldn't be.
Ken Wehr7 months ago
Here, this'll make you feel better. http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise/+2
Conall O'Brien7 months ago
I recall +Tiarnán de Burca getting a bumper sticker or something from this "museum" before...
Tiarnán de Burca7 months ago
+Keith O'Byrne and +Claire O'Byrne brought me gifts from an earlier trip. This is my first visit to the unholy ground. Still wigged out.
David Hixson7 months ago
I hope it was free.... Or that you paid with a rubber check.
Gordon Rowell7 months ago
"Mom" was surely right. The annual pass would allow you to learn even more as their scientific discoveries evolve.
Peter Radcliffe7 months ago
That's... evil, yeah, evil is the right word to my mind.+1
On behalf of the overwhelming majority of Christians who believe evolution, I apologise for the crazies.+2
Tiarnán de Burca7 months ago
+David Hixson The National museum of Ireland and the American Museum of Natural history will both be getting cheques. Ratio will be about 10:1.

+Andrew Stribblehill There are many Christians, yourself included, who I have had, and hope to continue to have, conversations and debates with on the nature of life and the universe that were engaged in in the spirit of inquiry and discovery. The acts of the creationist industry belittle the faiths of all believers.+1
Ethan Smith7 months ago
Museums themselves are dinosaurs so dont worry about the impact too much. I love museums but recently its hard not to notice you could get the same experience or better for 80% of the exhibits with Wikipedia, YouTube and some hot cocoa. Hundreds of millions of kids are learning humanities knowledge. Its just less visible these days.
David Hixson7 months ago
+Ethan Smith I'd say that museums still have a huge and trusted place, and at least some of them are getting better.  Having tangible items serves as a great reinforcement to the learning for kids, but also as a great reminder for adults.  They really should be a temple to learning, understanding and remembering.

It isn't that you learn a ton while you walk around.  It is the serendipity of new things and the tactile experience that doesn't come over youtube.

The British Museum is still one of my favorite places in the world, and I've been busily dragging my kid to every museum and zoo I can find.  (A Zoo is, effectively, a museum for animals we haven't killed off yet)+2
Matthew Brewer7 months ago
"Hitler and the Nazi Darwinian Worldview."
The museum godwinned itself?
Kent Hervey7 months ago
2 things:

1. Other museums also have their agenda. That certainly includes the Smithsonian. To be fair, you must condemn them, too.

2. You say there were many lies. What is an example, and how do you know it is a lie?
Perry Petrushko7 months ago
Sorry to hear of your discomfort on your trip, but sometimes truth hurts. Pray you will investigate further. blessings -
Paul Wayper7 months ago
Sorry, the truth according to your book?  Or the truth according to established scientific method.  Because, you know, my book contradicts yours.
Juan Diegalo7 months ago
Ken Ham posted this: https://www.facebook.com/aigkenham/posts/623371284359898. It's a link to this page.
Ken Wehr7 months ago
ibtl
Tiarnán de Burca7 months ago
Well I seem to have had a few visitors.

I'm tired, it's late, I'm driving across America, I'll be brief.

+Perry Petrushko Welcome. Truth was not the issue. Presenting ignorance disguised as science, particularly the corruption of children was what turned my stomach. As for further investigation, that's what the visit was for. If you'd like I'll trade you, let's read book for book and we'll see who's arguments hold up. Message me directly if you're interested.

+Ken Ham Thanks for reading. The funeral you misrepresented on your Facebook page was reason. Evolution will out live us all, and there's nothing either of us can do about it.

+Kent Hervey You ask for a lie. From a long list I choose. All mutations destroy information and are less than the original, with selected examples of mice mutation as an example. This is exciting cherry picking of the research and well beyond scriptural disagreement.

Trolls fed, I return to my drive.+1
Miki Habryn7 months ago
The depth of your reaction is interesting, since I'm pretty sure we talked about my light-hearted take on it in the past -https://plus.google.com/104003578791129466970/posts/GaLUo6vsFv1 - and now I feel a little guilty and maybe a touch defensive about that :P

I do think of it (and creationism in general) as a distinctly American cultural artifact, on par with India's lingering caste system, or Israel's ultra-orthodox communities, or, heck, foot binding, female genital mutilation or any other traditional belief/practice that continued past the point where we should have known better: they're manifestations of some meta-stable demographic structure that can only be abated with improved education, development, and generational change. Making that happen is, of course, its own challenge, but focusing on these symptoms distracts from attacking that cause.

I doubt there are any children who are swayed by a visit; they're either brought by a devout family or a skeptical one, and that will play a vastly greater role in their development than a few animatronic dinosaurs and voice-overs.

(Liz says: "the existence of this doesn't make me any sadder than the existence of reality television. And  a lot more people watch reality television." <3)+1
Kent Hervey7 months ago
OK, so somebody show me a mutation that was better than the oriinal
Paul Wayper7 months ago
Easy.  Bacteria mutate to improve their ability to survive disinfectants all the time.  I choose bacteria because they're simply the fastest evolving things we study.

Another: we've successfully bred dogs for many things, each one chosen as better than its parents at a particular thing or more fit for the purpose we want of them.
Kent Hervey7 months ago
I might buy bacteria, but dog breeding requires outside intelligence and is certainly not a mutation.  Don't understand enough about bacteria to comment.
Paul Wayper7 months ago
Actually, dog breeding is a bad example as that's sexual reproduction rather than simple asexual mutation.  It's still change over time, and that's basic evolution.
Bennett Bartlett7 months ago
The picture is amazing. That hypothosis for how species moved around after the flood is a giant game of Fogger?

http://www.classicgamesarcade.com/game/21607/frogger.html
Cecilia Roders4 months ago
This is a free country.  We have the rights of freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of association in this country.  The Museum of Creation Science does NOT get any tax dollars, so the government has no business regulating its message.  It has a constitutional right to exist and do what it does on all grounds.  It can't be made illegal and it must be allowed.  To not allow them would mean to become a less free country. 
We need to be tolerant of those who believe differently from us.  There is no reason to compare it to a concentration camp and have the visit ruin your day.  That implies lack of tolerance on your part. 
Paul Wayper4 months ago
+Cecilia Roders: Free speech doesn't mean what you say is equally valid.

I assume from your criticisms you support the Creation Museum.  Tell me you're tolerant toward people who believe in the scientific "version" of history.  Tell me you're tolerant toward people who need to have abortions.  Tell me you're tolerant towards gay and lesbian couples.  Tell me you're tolerant toward people who don't believe in your God.  THEN I'll be tolerant toward you.
Tiarnán de Burca4 months ago
And so this post rises again! 

+Cecilia Roders Welcome to the rodeo. 

I am intolerant of lies and quite content that the idea of lying to children upsets me. I didn't compare it to a concentration camp I compared it to how I felt about visiting a concentration camp.

I'm content to be hung for my words but do let's keep an eye on what was actually said.

No one suggested that the government were on the way to get you.
Your total lack of persecution is assured.
And yet, it seems, so is your persecution complex. 

Let us, as a thought experiment, think about why you might bring it up.
Let us reflect on why you might be nervous.

Do you perhaps doubt that the Creationist Museum would pass muster as a museum?

I'm forbidden from claiming to be a dentist, a lawyer, or a US Senator.
I'm not allowed claim my house is an embassy, a hospital, a hotel, or a police station.
I'm not allowed sell shit and sell it as chocolate, nor sell vinegar as wine. (Selling wine as blood seems to be a strictly Catholic game and I'll leave them to it.)

By any reasonable measure, that is not a museum and advertising it as such should be a breach of advertising standards. Unfortunately you're not going to be held to reasonable measures, that is the assurance you have in being an American.

You delusions protected please go safely about your day.

On your other point, I will agree that the government does not directly fund the museum, though the organization is building an Ark theme park that's getting about 43 million dollars in tax incentives and I'd be surprised if the Museum wasn't getting a similar deal.

Thank you for dropping by.+2