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Eufrosnia D
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Eufrosnia D

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I know what I am about to say might be a minority view here but I thought I will state it anyway.

I think the main problem with traditionalists is that they find a nice traditional parish or chapel (SSPX or FSSP) and then they settle down and continue in that place. They forget their duties toward their local parishes that they left behind. Instead of fighting the abuses of the Novus Ordo (and other abuses in the parish) they go and find a TLM and relax. Instead of raising concerns against the bad homilies and sermons, they ignore it completely and just move on to the TLM.

I am not saying that it is wrong to go and find a mass that is nourishing for your soul. All I am saying is that you can't forget that the Novus Ordo celebration that is riddled with abuse will continue with or without you in that parish you just left. At least do something to correct those abuses. That will build a sense of obedience to the Church in that parish community once you succeed. As inferior as the Novus Ordo might be, it will still be an exercise in obedience for a parish to follow the rubrics strictly. For some, it may even be an eye opener that they need to obey the Church. If you don't do anything, those people who are your fellow Catholic brothers and sisters will gradually drift away from the faith and become another "Katy Perry".

Also, if you manage to get a priest to stop giving homilies on psycho analysis or "how good we all are", that will also change the parish. If the priest starts speaking about sin, need for repentance, and other things, pretty soon the parish will start to become more Catholic. If you can get the priest to encourage and even hold traditional devotions, that will also help. Making sure that the speakers for an event are orthodox Catholics is also something to do. But no, the trads have left and they just observe from afar. 

Now some of you traditionalist might say "hey, this is impossible for me to do by myself". I admit that in some parishes the odds might be overwhelming. But most people just don't even try before they leave. Also if you don't stand up, its possible others won't as well because they are too afraid. Someone has to take the initiative. But not many want to get their hands dirty by standing up against the parish organization committees and having bit of a tussle. There aren't many who want to speak to the parish priest and raise their concerns. So is it surprising then that while you and your family escape and grow in holiness, the rest of the world starts to become more and more decadent?

I think the traditionalist game plan is flawed because they think of changing the world by spreading the popularity of the traditional mass. That is not going to work. You can't expect many people in the parish who are lukewarm or haven't even heard of the concept of obedience to the Church on matters of faith and morals to go and embrace the TLM.
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Eufrosnia D

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Since your whole use of multiple aliases might make you miss my last post to you, let me post it here as well.

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Look, face the facts (something you seem terribly resistant to do). What are the facts?

1. The Early Christians gave the Blessed Virgin Mary a highly exalted position - Historical fact
2. The Early Christians held the Blessed Virgin Mary to have had no other children- Historical fact
3. The Early Christians held that the Blessed Virgin Mary and other saints CAN intercede on your behalf with Christ

*By early Christians I refer to Christians living within the "living memory" of Christ and his first Apostles (aka. first couple of centuries).

So it seems to me like you are out of touch with reality because you contradict all these facts (and I am sure many more if we ended up getting in to doctrine like the Eucharist, Assumption etc). In fact, you are out of touch with what the first Apostles held. You believe in some distorted view of "Jesus" that you came up by reading your Bible (which has many books missing but that is another story).

You have constructed your own theology regarding salvation, who Jesus was and you think you are right because you are using Scripture. I have a news flash for you, all the heretics in the Church were very apt at quoting Scriptures too. What was their fault (and yours)? They quoted them ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION of Scriptures rather than what had been HISTORICAL FACT as been passed down by the first Apostles and early Christians.

Next time, unless you got some HISTORICAL EVIDENCE to BACK YOU UP, stop spewing your PERSONAL INTERPRETATION of Scripture all over Catholic videos. It's just silly and childish. It's equivalent to a person going around denying the holocaust happened. If you want to talk "errors of Catholicism" you better have something more than Scripture quotes interpreted according to Mary Freeman (or some other Protestant Jane Doe).
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Eufrosnia D

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Fr. Barron, what is the "urgency" when we can hope that "hell is empty", according to you? Sure, after watching a great movie/play or meeting a great person, we want to talk about it but there is no ACTUAL urgency. It's not like me not telling you about this great movie I saw is not going to be possible tomorrow. If I am a rational person, then I will tell myself that and stop worrying about telling you about it.

I only worry or get myself concerned about telling you if knowing it is essential for you in someway. And yes, Catholic tradition says that it is important because you are most likely ending up in hell without the gospel.

Oh wait, what is the gospel? Is it just "Jesus, who claimed he was God, died and rose from the dead"? No its not. It is about also telling what all of this means (i.e. DOCTRINE). What we must do to accept the redemption won for us (i.e. DOCTRINE). How we might end up rejecting it (i.e. DOCTRINE). How we can restore our relationship with Christ if it was lost and many more (i.e. DOCTRINE). How we can grow in relationship with Christ (i.e. DOCTRINE).

So I feel that your video, while full of nice imagery, misses the entire point in pitting doctrine against proclamation of the gospel. There cannot be a proclamation of the gospel without turning to doctrine. In a society where men and women are engaged in all sorts of immorality, one cannot proclaim Christ without asking them to TURN AWAY FROM IMMORALITY. It is as simple as that.
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+Fr. Robert Barron
Hello Father, I did not hear back from you so I was wondering if you got a chance to read my reply. Can you, at your convenience, please take a look and help me understand what is wrong in my thinking. Would appreciate it!

God bless!
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Eufrosnia D

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Hello, I am posting what I think is important part of our discussion here because you might miss it on the video.

====

Well there is a problem with this notion of "Biblical fact". Most Biblical facts Protestants put forth are facts according to their interpretation.

Take this case.

To Protestants it looks like Jesus did not give the B.V. Mary an exalted position. Why? Because they don't see any quote by Jesus in Scripture explicitly stating it.

To Catholics, it looks like Jesus exalted her the very moment he chose her to be his mother (because Jesus did not need a biological mother or a biological father to enter in to creation).

Who is right?

So it will look like both are "Biblical facts" but they both can't be right because the contradict each other. In the Protestant model, the person who chooses at this point between the two is YOU. In the Catholic model, it is the CHURCH. Why do Catholics trust it is the Church that has the authority? Because that is how it has always been historically. First it was the first apostles, then their successors and so forth. That is historical fact and is indeed known independent of the Bible. In fact, it must be known independent of the Bible for otherwise there is no way to be sure it is the Church that has authority. If Catholics claimed that they believed in the authority of the Church because the Bible tells them so, that is circular reasoning. For Catholics would first have to interpret the Bible themselves to figure out that the Church is the authority regarding interpretation. That is nonsensical and rightfully, Catholics don't reason that way (the once who know what they are doing in this regard at least).

Now we can also verify what is certainly biblical fact by looking at the interpretation of Authorities in the Church that have been written down, held and passed down by Christians who lived at a time the issue was settled. The exalted position of the B.V. Mary in this case has been settled and had been a part of the faith since the earliest first Apostles, Church fathers and other writers. Even if it had not been, once and when the Church settles the matter, the matter is settled. This is why Catholics do not have a faith crisis when the Church declares a dogma and feel the critical need to make sure it was defined the same way in history.

In short, Catholics put a lot of effort BEFORE they become Catholic to make sure the Church has authority. After that, they embrace the Catholic doctrine and pass their faith down to the children (who may or may not do the same verification in their own lives. It's not needed because they trust their parents to have done the job properly). Why do they believe and pass it down? Because they have certainty that the Catholic Church is the only authority regarding the Christian faith.

Do you see the issue now?
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Eufrosnia D

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Hello,

I sent you a private message sometime ago to your Youtube inbox. Did you receive it? I am still open to discussing the issues you have regarding the Catholic Church via private messaging. So if you find it interesting as well, do send me a PM and we can continue.

God bless!
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