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Christopher Gorton
1,906 followers -
Uncompromisingly committed to my King Jesus.
Uncompromisingly committed to my King Jesus.

1,906 followers
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Here is a really neat picture of the earth moon system as a pair of morning stars in the mars sky. It was taken by the mars rover, Curiosity.
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Greetings all, I have been absent from these hallowed halls for far to long. I am slowly trying to get back into the writing groove and thought I would share this from another venue.

My take on the Nye/Ham Creation Debate.

Sigh... I would like to forgo this because I doubt it is going to win me any friends.  However, as a science teacher (who actually taught B. Nye's nephew for 6 weeks), biologist, and having studied Evolutionary Biology as a Master's degree student, I figure some will be expecting me to comment.

First off, it is clear that they were both preaching to their respective choirs. Given the venue, this was to be expected, but I had hoped for more. It is highly unlikely that anyone's mind was changed and each sides supporters are confident their team won.

As a positive note, both parties were polite, and neither side appeared to make any significant gaffs to erode their position in the eyes of their supporters. Even more important (in my mind) the audience, which I presume to have been mostly creationists, was respectful, and attentive to Nye, as far as I could see.

My primary disappointment with Ham, was that he rather consistently resorted to scriptural arguments. Again, this is fine for the creationist choir, but does nothing for the opposition, and honestly was off point for the debate. Even worse he went beyond scripture to very limited and theologically doubtful interpretations of it.

He used fossils as evidence of death, and maintained that since death started with Adam, all fossils were after him. Death was promised to Adam and Eve in the "day" they ate the fruit. Either "day" or "death" must be understood in other than common terms. Ham dealt with "day" so that leaves death. Most conservative theologians believe it meant separation from God, and not cessation of life for all living things.

Clearly the plants they ate died. We certainly don't want to contemplate a world without biological death. It is necessary for human development in the womb! Autism seems to be caused by the failure of certain brain cells to die on schedule during development. Hands are paddles unless the tissue supporting the fingers dies after it has done its job.

If Ham, disappointed the theologian in me, Nye did even worse for my internal scientist. He either had not taken sufficient time studying the basics of a creationist understanding of the world, or (as I suspect) he was only preaching to his choir. He probably did not want his followers to suspect that there really is substance to a creationist position.

Almost all of his objections were of a very basic sort which had been repeatedly dealt with in the literature.  For example his objection (which I heard sited on NPR yesterday) that the universe can't be over 7,000 years old if we see stars 100 billion light years away.

Duh, if God made stars to be seen, of course he would create the light from there to here in the act of creation.  A much better objection, which would have shown that he did his homework, would have been: Why do we see events in that created stream of light such as SN 1987a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A)

Creationist do have several models that attempt to deal with this question, but none are conclusive.  The fact is that both creationists and materialists have questions they can't answer. And yes both sides gave tacit (though subdued) acquiescence to that point.

Ultimately it is not about the choirs. It is about the individual who is going to die a biological death.  Nye finds hope in wonder, and Ham in an afterlife. On this they are both right. 

I was privileged to have one of my questions asked in the open questions section. It was "Where does consciousness come from?"
Nye answered honestly, saying he did not know. For me this is the crux of the issue.

Materialists pin their hopes on the idea that while one switch is not conscious, several hundred billion correctly connected, might some how wake up, and start to "wonder." To my mind the hope that mind is an epiphenomena of brain, requires a far greater leap of faith than the idea that my mind and everything it perceives, is the product of a greater one.

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My take on the Nye/Ham Creation Debate.

Sigh... I would like to forgo this because I doubt it is going to win me any friends.  However, as a science teacher (who actually taught B. Nye's nephew for 6 weeks), biologist, and having studied Evolutionary Biology as a Master's degree student, I figure some will be expecting me to comment.

First off, it is clear that they were both preaching to their respective choirs. Given the venue, this was to be expected, but I had hoped for more. It is highly unlikely that anyone's mind was changed and each sides supporters are confident their team won.

As a positive note, both parties were polite, and neither side appeared to make any significant gaffs to erode their position in the eyes of their supporters. Even more important (in my mind) the audience, which I presume to have been mostly creationists, was respectful, and attentive to Nye, as far as I could see.

My primary disappointment with Ham, was that he rather consistently resorted to scriptural arguments. Again, this is fine for the creationist choir, but does nothing for the opposition, and honestly was off point for the debate. Even worse he went beyond scripture to very limited and theologically doubtful interpretations of it.

He used fossils as evidence of death, and maintained that since death started with Adam, all fossils were after him. Death was promised to Adam and Eve in the "day" they ate the fruit. Either "day" or "death" must be understood in other than common terms. Ham dealt with "day" so that leaves death. Most conservative theologians believe it meant separation from God, and not cessation of life for all living things.

Clearly the plants they ate died. We certainly don't want to contemplate a world without biological death. It is necessary for human development in the womb! Autism seems to be caused by the failure of certain brain cells to die on schedule during development. Hands are paddles unless the tissue supporting the fingers dies after it has done its job.

If Ham, disappointed the theologian in me, Nye did even worse for my internal scientist. He either had not taken sufficient time studying the basics of a creationist understanding of the world, or (as I suspect) he was only preaching to his choir. He probably did not want his followers to suspect that there really is substance to a creationist position.

Almost all of his objections were of a very basic sort which had been repeatedly dealt with in the literature.  For example his objection (which I heard sited on NPR yesterday) that the universe can't be over 7,000 years old if we see stars 100 billion light years away.

Duh, if God made stars to be seen, of course he would create the light from there to here in the act of creation.  A much better objection, which would have shown that he did his homework, would have been: Why do we see events in that created stream of light such as SN 1987a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A)

Creationist do have several models that attempt to deal with this question, but none are conclusive.  The fact is that both creationists and materialists have questions they can't answer. And yes both sides gave tacit (though subdued) acquiescence to that point.

Ultimately it is not about the choirs. It is about the individual who is going to die a biological death.  Nye finds hope in wonder, and Ham in an afterlife. On this they are both right. 

I was privileged to have one of my questions asked in the open questions section. It was "Where does consciousness come from?"
Nye answered honestly, saying he did not know. For me this is the crux of the issue.

Materialists pin their hopes on the idea that while one switch is not conscious, several hundred billion correctly connected, might some how wake up, and start to "wonder." To my mind the hope that mind is an epiphenomena of brain, requires a far greater leap of faith than the idea that my mind and everything it perceives, is the product of a greater one.
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Lord, help this not to be true of me!
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A wonderful little graphic that has the potential to facilitate civility in the face of disagreement.
It is important to note that sometimes discussion is imposable because there is not common ground upon which to base it.  For example if a person does not accept the New Testament record of Jesus' words as authoritative, it is futile to argue that Jesus taught his followers to love their enemies.
Once the N.T. premise is accepted we can begin to discuss how to apply such inconvenient statements.
Psssst! Wanna Talk?

Not that any of us really needs a reminder but still, this is good to keep in mind ;) 


The original source appears to be atheismresource.com (http://goo.gl/j4msA)
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God is a Criminal.  A truth that is often forgotten.  Thank you +Micael Grenholm  your song has blessed me richly and I hope our lord uses it for his glory as we stand for/with him!
For the king,
Chris
New Song: God is a Criminal
New Song: God is a Criminal
holyspiritactivism.wordpress.com
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God Is a criminal!!!  You absolutely must listen to this!  Michael Grenholm, posted this last night and It is one of the most moving things I have heard in a long time.

Here is the first verse:

God is a criminal, it isn’t hard to see
In the book of Acts He breaks the law to set the captives free
An unjust law is no law at all, compassion is the key
God is a criminal, so that’s what I want to be

Please share this publicly, and start singing it!

For the king,

Chris
New Song: God is a Criminal
New Song: God is a Criminal
holyspiritactivism.wordpress.com
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T E Hanna has graciously invited me to share in this event.  I hope you can make it also!
Hi folks!

Don't miss the live event today at 1pm EST with +Christopher Gorton discussing his recent book The Problem With Christ: Why We Don't Understand Jesus, His Enemies, or the Early Church.

In the course of the discussion, we will be tackling how language evolves, how that impacts culture, and what it means to reclaim the meaning of "Christ" as more than just a surname for Jesus.

We will be responding to live questions from our viewers, so I hope to see you there. Simply click below to reserve your free spot.
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Here I am folks, step right up and follow me. I have all the truth... Uhh, well maybe not :-(   Read +Chris Wilson 's pithy new post to see how you too can have your own cult (or not ;-)
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+E.D.Jackson Jr. says  "I seek to magnify the excellency of our God and the glory of our King through the teaching and preaching of His Word. Delivering the purpose of God closer to heart."

I say... "Preach it my brother!"
Unto His Glory
Unto His Glory
alluntohisglory.blogspot.com
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