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Obie Fernandez
Lives in Atlanta, GA
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Obie Fernandez
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Anyone going to dare talk to their family about the "new light" in Iuly 15th watchtower edition? I'm tempted to, but they will want to know how I found out about it, etc, rather than discussing the actual topic. Been there, done that, nothing good comes out of it. On the positive side, I do feel that it presages further deterioration of their enthusiasm levels
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Biram Achoo's profile photo
 
Well +Obie Fernandez, it has been goin on for quite some time now that we know about what they're about to get "fed", before they even get it. Just like that "sparlock" video that got released last summer. So is someone on the inside feeding this illusion to both sides, or is someone on the inside up to no good?
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Obie Fernandez
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Just wanted to capture a recurring thought related to witness beliefs. We were all taught that there is no such thing as an immortal soul. That what we are dies completely when we pass away, that we become dirt and are gone forever EXCEPT that Jehovah can and will resurrect us in the new system.

There's a semantic issue here. If there is information about us that defines WHO we were before we died, and that information is stored inside Jehovah's spirit brain somewhere, then that is in effect equivalent to a soul in the way that the rest of the world understands it.

Don't agree? Think about it this way: In order to resurrect someone, a new body would need to be created, since the original body is long turned to dust. So that new body is a recreation of the old body? Because presumably if you are not recognizable in some way as your old self then what is the point? Except that it is not, since you'll be perfect and your old body was imperfect, so the new body is not the old you. It's a new body and something needs to be put into it to make it the old you. At least some of your memories would need to be put into your new brain, so that you would remember who you were and for instance things like who your parents and children were before you died. That information needs to live somewhere, and you can argue that that information, your thoughts and memories, what makes you you is like your soul.

That's why I say it's a semantic issue. Because when you look at it that way, then Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the soul survives death exactly like every other Christian belief, they just think that the soul is captured and resides inside of Jehovah's brain (whatever that means) instead of being relegated to purgatory or heaven/hell. They don't actually believe in hell, so basically everyone gets to be resurrected on paradise earth.

When you think about how they believe of paradise earth, it's not actually that different from heaven in other Christian beliefs. Everyone is perfect and everyone is happy. You get to see your loved ones again. Fun and ponies for everybody -- everything you need is provided by god's kingdom led by Jesus. Again, semantics rule the day. There is not much of a consensus on what heaven is like other than it is perfect happiness and glory, whatever that means. Essentially, your every need is taken care of perfectly in heaven, and you get to meet your loved ones again, because they didn't actually die, their soul (whatever it is that makes them them was preserved in some way, and yours was also.)

How on earth (pun intended) is it any different? Both are outcomes that are very similar in experience and outcome. The earth "restored" where paradise is supposed to host resurrected loved ones is so much different than what we have today that for all intents and purposes it might as well be in heaven or another planet, or imaginary middle earth! There's no way of proving that it will or will not happen, and the differences are so insignificant that it really makes me wonder what the hell we were smoking to think it was a huge difference.

I've now been a non-witness longer that I was a witness. The longer the distance gets between my belief and non-belief, the more I realize that they are just like every other religion. It's only the small details that are different, and JWs aren't even that impressive in terms of the unique details. For a real sense of the creativity possible in religious details, look at what the Mormons or Scientologists came up with.
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Ike Fehr's profile photoTami Dickerson's profile photo
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their spirit returns to God, who gave it. Eccles. 12:7.  So, God is holding the spirit of the person till the day of resurrection?  Then, He will unite each spirit to the right person?  So are the people who die physically also dead in the "ethereal sense".  
Actually I do not believe that people are not awake after their physical death.  They are merely at a different place (perhaps without their spirit and certainly without their body), but not without their soul.  
I also do not believe that when people die, they go to "be with Jesus".  The resurrection will not happen till it is time for the judgement of both, Christians and non-Christians.
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Obie Fernandez
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Mostly clever. Example: "I got told today at the door that I'm brainwashed by my religion. How do I explain to them that brainwashing is good?"
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Obie Fernandez's profile photoBiram Achoo's profile photo
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Better than that. Just pretend to ring the doorbell if you're a few doors away from the next guy! If you're by yourself that is. of course if you're not,  i used to just say "Please take this and slam the door in my face, I'm being held against my own free will and accord in this knock knock scandal."
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Have him in circles
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Obie Fernandez
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Found this interesting from the standpoint of someone who now believes in evolution. (Not that creationism ever really floated my boat.)
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Biram Achoo's profile photo
 
It is a scientifically proven fact that the world was NOT created in 7 days. It took 8 billion years and went through hell and back to get there. Creationism is the easy way out and the way of faithful scapegoats to capitalize on the people who have the "belief" gene, and will cling to anything they can. Hence the fact they cannot think for themselves, let alone come to a well thought out conclusion on matters of faith socials and politics. If you've done you're homework, you know that these three have ties that go all the way back so far as the dawn of man (humankind) walking the earth.
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Have him in circles
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the one and only
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I'm a well-known author/blogger, Ruby on Rails software developer and businessperson.
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Atlanta, GA
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Jacksonville Beach, FL - Hackensack, NJ