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Dale “BioZed” Woodall's profile photoMark Deneen's profile photoBogdan Sladaru's profile photoJeff “JD” Demers's profile photo
Great collection... tempting... but I won't buy DRM products from EA.
The only "Indie" thing to ever come out of EA is their "Indie"ference towards the consumer.
Oh well... the funny thing is that everyone hates EA for their DRM&stuff, but nobody complains when Blizzard's DRM is even worse (the Diablo 3 DRM scheme, with the requirement to be always online when playing the story mode).
Bogdan: Yeah, but this is not message about Blizzard, is it?
I didn't like the always on DRM, that's one of the reasons why i'm not getting it. So its not just nobody complaining though. There are plenty but just not as much.
+Zorrish z Hrádku well, I hate discrimination :). I bought games from various delevopers/publishers and EA DRM is not the worst of them. It's still annoying, but not the worst (well, I never bought any game with limited installs - only games that need activation or always online).
Oh, and as a note: the only one having additional DRM is Gatling Gears. If anyone is interested...
Next people will be complaining that they can only get target brand tissues at target and start partitioning to have them sold at walmart.
+Václav Koryčánek +Jeff Demers EA can do whatever the fuck they want with their products. On the other hard, as a consumer, I can do whatever the fuck I want with my money, including not giving it to EA, and letting everyone else know why I am doing it.
So you kids know, there was a time, long long ago, that EA= awesome. Probably most of you were not even born back then, but in the dawn on the computer game age, EA was publishing the most polished and most original titles in the market. Titles that actually defined a whole industry Titles that come to mind include:

- PHM Pegaus
- SkyFox
- The Bard's Tale
- Populus
- Wing Commander
- 688 Attack Sub
- Archon
- Starflight

It is a shame to see this once great publisher become such a mockery and an example of everything that is wrong with the industry today.
+Zorrish z Hrádku: The games are indie games because they are developed by independent game studios. EA is only the publisher here.
+Mikko Ahlroth yes, but the point of indie is the money flows directly to the developer/artist not through a publisher/middle man. So I am sure you can see why this isn't exactly "indie" by definition. Unless of course +Electronic Arts didn't fund these games and isn't taking any money from the sales ...
+Steven Demanett yeah, I guess so, but Steam takes a cut from indie games as well and you could say it's kind of a publisher (especially if the game gets an ad placement on the store front page), but nobody contests calling those games indie. So I'd still call them indie games even if +Electronic Arts takes some revenue from selling them.
+Bogdan Sladaru People probably don't complain about Blizzard's Diablo 3 DRM as much because 1. This isn't about DRM, this is about EA having an "Indie bundle." 2. That's not the worse DRM out there.

As far as this being an Indie bundle, lol. Indie is short for independent. Games published by EA are anything but independent.
+Mikko Ahlroth Steam is simply the delivery medium/service for which the dev pays for while all funds flow directly to the dev, they have a choice of delivery mediums and could choose to not use Steam. Furthermore Steam didn't foot the bill to have the game made nor do they take a cut of every sale regardless of sales outlet.

By definition this Indie bundle is not indie unless like I said previously EA didn't pay for development and isn't taking a cut of sales
+Steven Demanett you are right, these are not true indie games when they have a major publisher backing them. +Mikko Ahlroth if Valve were publishing indie games that are available on Steam somehow then you would be correct, but because Steam itself is simply a delivery service here (meaning the developers are not tied down to Steam or Valve) nor do they have to give money to Steam for non-Steam purchases (like +Steven Demanett said) games simply being available on Steam does not make them non-indie. But games that have publishers (which they are tied to no matter where they go and where they sell) are not indie anymore. Many Valve games (Counter Strike, Portal, Left 4 Dead) started out as indie games, but then were not called indie because they were published and or hired by Valve.
Agreed, what a bastardization of the term - shameful. But hey, considering it's EA, the bar is already pretty damn low.
oh no it's indie/not indie. wah wah wah. seriously people, if the dev wanted to not work with EA, they wouldn't. They were not forced into it, they could have worked with any publisher, or no publisher. THEY chose EA, so if you don't want to buy their game because of some imagined, self-riteous slight, you are only hurting them and yourself.
+Jeff Demers It's not a matter of disliking EA, it's a matter of them calling something that it isn't.
who cares if they are called indie? you guys are a bunch of whiners. if you like the game, and the price is right, buy it and stop clogging up the feed with pointless bitching about how much you hate EA for a variety of insubstantial qualms.
YEAH!! Stop whining so I can stop whining about you whining!
+Jeff Earls exactly! When someone is wrong in the internet my spidy sense tingles, and it's hard to work with all that tingling.

Sorry, just trying to stop the tingl... BURNING.
Either way chrome yells at me for a mispelling it, because it's a fake word and I don't read comic books, so I haven't memorized all the fake words they use yet.
+Jeff Demers I do care if they are called indie. That is false advertisement. I want to support truly Indie publishers, not someone pretending to be one. Good for them that they have EA behind them. More power to them. But don't try to extract money from me by claiming what you are not.
+Pedro Calmon then I suppose you need to be really secure in what you think indie is....are they not allowed to have financial backers? Say goodbye to calling kickstarter companies "indie" then. EA is a financial backer, as is kickstarter. Both are investments, both could go wrong and they could lose money, or it could go right and the backer could gain something. I'm not seeing a difference.
+Jeff Demers If I bought a game that was advertised as a FPS, I would expect to receive a FPS and not an RPG. If I buy a game listed as being Indie, I expect to receive an Indie game and not a triple-A big budget title.

And you can't really tell us to stop whining when you're whining about our whining.
What happen was that these were indie developers that published the games themselves then EA came behind them and bought them out because they were deemed successful enough to exploit.
+Ariel Merriman They call it indie, and you don't. What definition are you using? Also, FPS vs RPG is different from "indie" as EA defines it and "indie" as you define it. I know you already know this, so I don't know why you said what you said.

And I can tell you guys to stop whining, regardless of whatever imagined hypocrisy you suspect.
+Jeff Earls I doubt what you are saying is true, but if it is, these games were made as "indie" by your definition, and then EA came in and paid them millions and changed the management. I say win/win, because now these awesome games, regardless of "indie" or not, get distributed widely and everyone can make more money.
SO, what this boils down to is EA called something indie that you guys think is not indie, because you guys have a very narrow idea of what indie is and they have a very loose one. So you don't actually have some sort of real problem with the games, you just don't like that EA was using a different dictionary then you.

This is the worst kind of argument, because you are getting angry over semantics. Look at the substance, and get angry if EA is using horrible DRM and spy tools and bloating their games with malware or whatever, don't get angry because they used a word that you and Marcus Persson thinks should be strictly used for games that meet a tight set of criteria. This is worse then the "Is Bright Eyes/Darwin Deez/Amanda Palmer still indie because they made it big?" argument, and for all the same reasons.
I also just took 5 seconds to see why you guys are all crazy, and found out that the EA Bundle is published through the EA Partners subcompany of EA, which is a label that puplishes thirs-party games from independent developer, or, as the developer for "Squid Yes, Not so Octopus" put it, "The EA bundle is EA Partners stuff. The studios/people behind the games are indie."

He continued, "It's dead easy, don't worry what is/isn't indie. Worry whether people/corps are abusive towards you. That's the important one."
"Stop whining you whiners!"
Proceeds to whine more than us.
Having fun?
Keep fighting the good fight, +Jeff Demers. Maybe we should call you EA Demers? Quickly becoming as unpopular!
Uh-oh, he made good points, let's attack him personally. Also, I don't like EA, but not for imaginary reasons.
Good points? Attacking you personally? lolwut.
Not you, your comment didn't bear response. But the good points, look at the "EA Partners" explanation that should hopefully clear up this whole mess for you. It's really a closing argument because it deflowers any problems you could have with hard, thrusting truths.
Also, for a girl that just got her voice back from Ursula you sure are using it a lot.
I was trying to lighten the mood because this topic is ridiculous.
Listen, we're both probably terrible people who hate too many things as it is, and we've both already made our points. This is the point where I'd usually try to bro hug it out with whomever I'm arguing with, but since you're neither bro nor hug-distance I'll settle for telling you that I've enjoyed our time arguing on the internet and wish you well in future arguments about stupid shit we both don't actually care about.
And there's the root of the disagreement: WE care, you do not.
We should start a hangout and you can watch me eat my lunch...unless you think that's weird. Sometimes a guy likes an audience.
You're clearly in desperate need of entertainment - Might I suggest you purchase some pseudo-indie games? They're on sale today! Shank's definitely my favorite.
So, we're going to ignore the EA Partners thing I said above? You are being willfully ignorant, Mr My Name is Earls
Your EA Partners commentary reflects exactly what I stated that you dismissed as untrue.

The games were originally independently developed, independently published, and then bought out and republished under a third party (EA Partners) thereby nullifying any independence rendering them no longer indie!

Whether you agree with this logic or not is irrelevant to the reality I and others share concerning the semantic use of "indie".
They were not bought out, EA is just distributing. It's like saying Target bought out Mirimax because they carry their movies.
The games, not the developers. EA owns in whole or part the publishing rights and possibly the trademarks to the games now. They are no longer an "indie" game by hipster standards.

But I totally get your points, and you're right.
All of you... you know what's sad IMHO? You are ready to hurt some indie developers just based on some semantic reasons (or whatever they are called): is the bundle indie or not?
You let those feelings cloud your judgement and your actions might hurt the ones you want to protect (indie developers). Even if EA takes its share, I'm convinced the developers will get more money than they would get if their games were self-published (using Steam or whatever). And by not buying the bundle only because it's published by EA you discourage those indie developers by not giving them the money they deserve for some games that you would normally enjoy.
So, yay for the good fight against the big bad wolf EA and just ignore the collateral damage :)
Is EA a bad company? Maybe... they have their share of bad decisions (invasive DRM etc). Are their decisions money-driven? For sure, but the same goes for almost every big publisher/developer. Are they the worst company in the whole world? I doubt...
[as a side note: I am a programmer; I work in the gaming industry for about 8 years; I work for EA Sports for about 4 months, but I had those beliefs before joining them and this opinion is in no way connected to them, endorsed by them or whatever - I'm just a tiny wheel in their mechanism and nobody in the decision-taking layer is aware of or cares about my opinions :). In the last few years I bought at least 150 retail PC games and more than 300 games over Steam; at least half of them are indie games, so I believe I can say I understand and support the indie developers; I'll buy the EA Indie Bundle not because I work at EA, but because those are good games]
Deal with the Devil and you're going to burn!
Of course! They deserve to be punished because they decided that they should get some money for their work. They should start selling their games on home-burned DVDs at every street corner. GG!
Now that's something we can all agree on!
The words "EA" and "Indie" should never be in the same sentence. By definition, any game made by EA is NOT INDIE.
This comment thread has been my most entertaining read on Google+ so far. Keep it up!
Indie is defined as Not belonging to or affiliated with a major game development company. EA is a major game development company. Therefore, any game affiliated with EA (e.g. in the "EA Indie Bundle") is not actually Indie.
Where did you get that definition? They didn't make or produce it, they only distribute it. Some games they publish, sometimes they may call it your definition....oh man. Ok, here's the new rule for new comers, shut up until you've read the whole thread so we don't have to repeat ourselves.
I still consider Bastion to be an indie game, but there is a giant WB logo when you start it.

I also skipped me3 because I don't care to install origin.
origin isn't bad, it lets you choose where to install your games and I've had 0 problems with the service.
I remember when everyone hatred steam. What's to say origin won't be as loved one day. I personally don't have an issue with it
Meh, I already have Steam and they offer plenty of things outside of Valve's catalog. I trust Valve a hell of a lot more than I do EA.
They have since changed this, but this was in the terms of service until last November:

If you have not used your Entitlements or Account for twenty four (24) months or more and your Account has associated Entitlements, your Entitlements will expire and your Account may be cancelled for non-use. Once you have redeemed your Entitlements, that content is not returnable, exchangeable, or refundable for other Entitlements or for cash, or other goods or services.

Stuff like that does not give me a lot of confidence.
Sounds like they listened to their fans and made a change for the better, I see no problem. My rule is, don't use the service if there is something that is a showstopper for me. If a rule they used to have and never got to enforce (because the service isn't even that old yet) bothers you that much then my all means don't use it.
Yes, but somebody thought that it was a good idea to begin with.
Yea, lots of people think of ideas, some of them are bad. Just like my decision to argue on the internet, not a good idea. When I'm old I'll regret the time I wasted talking to you about video game morals on a really lame steam G+ post.
Ha! If you think that this is an argument then I am truly sorry for you. (edit -- did not see that you were discussing "indie vs non-indie above, I bypassed all of that noise)
So you also bypassed my comment about how people never read a whole thread and just interject their opinion like it's new to us?
ah, you're one of those people who want to comment on things but not actually know what you're talking about.
Dude, you asked me why I didn't like Origin and I gave you a simple answer.

Get over yourself.
uh-oh, butthurt. I asked you why and you gave me a reason that is no longer a reason. Like how I could say I don't like cars because they have to be cranked first.
You didn't read into it enough. I didn't like how they crafted their terms of service, which they can change at any time, and I don't trust them because of this. End of story.

"Baby, I said I was sorry.." doesn't cut it.
You could just as easily hate steam for the same reason. If you ever stop being a steam customer, you still need to use their platform to play the games you downloaded, or all your games are forfeit.
I could leave my steam account idle for 5 years my games will still be there when I came back. With the original wording of Origin's TOS, this was not the case.

Yes, this has been changed but it bothers me that somebody thought that this was a good idea, and that it might be something that they'd like to come back to someday.

Bottom line? I don't trust EA/Origin.
Your games won't still be there since they could just go out of business and then your games are poof, gone, because you don't actually own them, you just own the right to play them.
Unless I went into "Offline mode" before I vanished for 5 years, of course.

And, really, even with physical media, what you said is true of most games today -- they need to phone home and authorize before you can play them.
yea, so really the greater gripe is with the entire industry, which steam isn't really helping with. But my overall point is that something that EA already fixed (showing that they listen to their customers) shouldn't steer you away from the entire service. They have some great games, and the origin service is in some ways better then steam.
The majority of my steam catalog works just fine in offline mode, actually. The exception is Dragon Age: Origins (EA), which causes me grief even when I have an internet connection. I've lost dragon scale armor several times because I lost my connection somehow to their auth servers. I had to resort to the game console to get it back.
Hm... Humble Bundle's latest pack contains Bastion, which is published by WB Games (Warner Bros). This isn't a small company by any standards. I wonder why nobody cries "foul play, don't call 'indie' a bundle that contains a game published by a big publisher" :)
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