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The Occupy Wall Street Nazi style - Yes this is the official Occupy Wall Street page.
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Ben Guilfoy's profile photoSteve Ayers's profile photoTonnerre Lombard's profile photoJamie Sloan's profile photo
65 comments
 
I don't believe there is an "official" occupy wall street organization.
 
Since when exists official "Occupy Wall Street* anything. Does it exist beyond a common name?
 
I've posted about this before on BoingBoing and a few other places which had noted anti-semitic comics and literature coming out of some of the people in the "Occupy" movement. Frankly, I knew it would happen. There is a problem of anti-semitism as much on the left as on the right when people talk about Israel, bankers, finances, or lobbyists. It's where whacko leftists meet whacko right wingers and see eye to eye and it makes me very angry.
 
The MORE disturbing thing is the 54 "likes" if legit. One idiot is just an idiot, but 54 of them becomes a mob.
 
This looks more like an effort to discredit the "Occupy" movement than anything else. In any case it's despicable.
 
Not good but think how would you depict in a cartoon the Zionist Lobby in America that drives American policy in the Middle East? Yes its Crass Yes IT IS RACIST but it has people thinking perhaps?
 
The OWS FB page that posted this pic has been taken down
 
Is it racist when someone adds a cross and a crescent besides that star? How come this become racist?
There are people who have worries about USA being sent to wars for Israel. Labeling those people as "racists" wont make them feel more secure.It would only force them to underground.
 
+Simon Smith Question: Do you complain about the Islamist "lobby" in the Arab Muslim world which drives Arab Muslim policy in the Middle East? And would you defend caricaturing it in the same way because it gets people "thinking"?
 
Exactly which wars were fought "for Israel"? I don't recall any.
 
+Summer Seale Iran perhaps!
And yes, Unlike you I'd support that caricature, Not only because I believe that is good, but also again unlike you I believe in free speech.
 
When did we go to war with Iran? And, last I recall, Iran calls the United States "The Great Satan" and considers the United States to be a bigger threat to them than Israel does. That makes Iran an enemy to the United States and not just to Israel (not to mention Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and other neighboring places - but just ignore that and don't let the facts get in the way of your Israel bashing, ok? I wouldn't want to impose.)
 
And I never said I didn't support the freedom to draw that cartoon, did I? Please refer to examples where I said that it should not be allowed (but again, please don't let facts get in the way of your opinions...I wouldn't want to impose any reality on you if you didn't feel you could cope with it).
 
+Steve Ayers I was not referring to anything before someone who cant stand free speech commented on my post.
 
+Summer Seale to answer 1st Q Yes I do I live in an area where we have approx 17% Muslims and just down the road from me we had the UK's 07/07 suicide bombers and I ended my post with a question mark to show I'm undecided on this cartoon as to its worth and just to reiterate Yes IT IS RACIST.
 
Again: When did I say that this should not be allowed to be drawn based on some sort of censorship laws? Did I say that? Did I even imply it?
 
+Summer Seale your way of trying to silence people on this post is evidence enough for where you stand.
 
+Doğan Aktaş There is a difference between calling for censorship and calling someone's use of free speach improper, hurtful and racist. I am still curious as to which war in Iran you were talking about.
 
+Simon Smith If it is racist to criticize colonial regimes, like Israel is, then most of the world is racist.
 
Again: How did I try to silence somebody? Did I tell you to shut up? Did I tell you that this cartoon should not legally be allowed to be drawn? Or is getting you to admit that you're an idiot who makes far too many assumptions now considered a form of censorship?
 
This is not racist, Jews are not a race of people it is a religion. Albeit the Israeli flag is very much influenced by religion as it has the Star of David on it, but this is just prejudice and not racist.
 
+Summer Seale why playing dumb now ? :-) Taking a sentence out of context and using it is just as effective as yelling
"shut up".
 
On a side note the picture is very apt.
 
+Doğan Aktaş Once more, you failed to show me where exactly I:

1) Told you that you do not have a legal right to write what you did and,

2) Said that there was no legal right to draw that cartoon.

I did not take anything out of context. You were explicit. You said:

"... but also again unlike you I believe in free speech."

That is an accusation that I do not believe in free speech. Please provide evidence to the contrary.

You also said:

"+Summer Seale your way of trying to silence people on this post is evidence enough for where you stand."

Once again, this is a claim. Please provide evidence where I told you to keep quiet. Asking for evidence is not the same thing as telling somebody to keep quiet. The two are entirely different concepts.

Please provide evidence to back up these two claims or, if you cannot, apologize for your errors and slander.
 
+Simon Smith Is it?
So we shouldnt criticize Human rights abuses in Israel because it is racist, we should not criticize their government for murders of innocents, just because they are different.
 
+Simon Smith How many UN resolutions on Israel's abuses have been vetoed by Obama government?. Can you see what the wheel is?
 
+Doğan Aktaş My "silly arrogant language" didn't accuse you of anything other than making up claims so far as you cannot back them up. You made the claims, I asked for evidence. This is not arrogance. The arrogance, dear sir, lies in your assumptions and your unwillingness to back them up with evidence. I did not judge your character until you started to slander and lie about me, what I actually believe in, and what I actually said.

But again, please feel free to disregard all the facts you wish and make grandiose claims. Please show everyone here just how incredibly vapid your statements have been.
 
+Doğan Aktaş I forgot that Palestinians don't bomb schools and fire rockets at Israeli civilians. I forgot that the surrounding Arab states invaded Israel unprovoked when the nation was less than a year old. i completely forgot that a nation has a right to defend itself. You haven't done anything on this thread except insult other people and make baseless claims you refuse to back up with eveidence.
 
I'm still waiting to find out who the heck won that U.S.Iran war cuz I like TOTALLY missed it! Hope they show a rerun on TV :-)
 
Sorry +Doğan Aktaş but where did you pick that from mate? Where have I stated anything pro-Zionist Check who has +1 you. All I said was the use of the image of the Stereotypical Jew is RACIST call it what you will but this does not stop Israelis feeling threaten by their Arab neighbours nor does it help the Palestinians regain their rightful existance
 
+Tom McGill I don't think you're wrong, but there is an added layer of context in that today is the Holocaust Rememberance Day. On another day this would have been less imflamatory. Today, it almost alludes to Holocaust denial by claiming that Israel runs the US and the UN.
 
First of all, there is no "official" occupy wall-street page. The most notable thing about the entire movement was that it had no spokesman, no defined objectives, no official purpose, and no leadership. Therefore, no one can truly claim to speak for the movement.

Which, for the record, is the same reason it was a ridiculous failure - you can't accomplish a goal without having a goal. Unlike your typical protest that consists of people screaming "we don't like what you're doing and are going to protest until you address our demands!" It was just a bunch of people screaming "things suck right now! Fix it!"
 
+Tom McGill That may serve you well, but you are in the minority. There are countless people coming together and remembering the deaths of over 6 million people during the Holocaust. It may not mean anything to you, but try to respect those it does matter to.
 
<Note to self: Do NOT send any naked pics to +Tom McGill on National Cleavage Day!> ;)
 
+Tom McGill you make absolutely no sense. I am personally not observing any kind of Rememberance Day, but I respect those who are. I'm not asking the world to revolve around me, just asking people to think outside themselves and let those who wish to honor loved ones to do it in peace. I also had no idea I was dealing with enemies, so thank you for making that clear to me that I am.
 
Uh, +Tom McGill ?

ar·bi·trar·y/ˈärbiˌtrerē/
Adjective:
Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

How the hell can an anniversary be abitrary?
 
No, it's not arbitrary. "Based on a rotation of a spinning ball in space around its sun" is a system. It is a reason. Arbitrary means something anything based on a system is, by definition, not arbitrary.
 
+Tom McGill being "frame dependent" doesn't make it arbitrary. Regardless of what the system is based or dependent upon, it's a system. If it's based on a system, it's not arbitrary. Go ahead, take your ball and go home, but the bottom line is that it's not "semantics" when the basis of your argument is factually inaccurate. It's not my problem if you struggle to grasp the English language.
 
All in all, objectively speaking, there have been some fairly reasonable defenses of the cartoon itself in this thread. While we've been understandably programmed to have a knee-jerk reaction to things like this that look like "ZOMG, THE JEW BANKERS CONTROL THE WORLD ILLUMINATI TRILATERAL COMMISSION NWO WOLFPACK DEGENERATION X" Nazi trolling; there are other political contexts it can be viewed under.

Palestine Vs. Israel is a hot-button issue. To be perfect honest, I just haven't spent enough time studying the matter to comment on it, and even if I did, I suspect it's one of those things like Gun control & abortion, where discussing the rights and wrongs of it on the internet is just a bad idea. That being said, creating a cartoon expressing the political belief that one nation has too much power in the global community is not necessarily a racist statement regarding the people of said country.


Alright, all that being said, the timing of this cartoon going up seems pretty clearly trollish. Regardless of whether or not its a true or fair criticism, there's a time and a place for everything. If someone was obese and a chronic liar, saying "that guy is such a fat liar" is a 100% true statement. But you know what? Going to his funeral, standing in front of his grieving wife and children and shouting "that guy was a fat liar, and I'm glad he's dead!" May be 100% true, but it's still extremely offensive and inappropriate.
 
+Anthony Park Umm...the Jews do remember those people. If you've ever spent three seconds at the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C., the first thing you see walking in isn't a picture of a Jewish man or woman or child, or a picture of a Nazi guard. As you walk into the doors, you are greeted with the flags of all of the units which fought and died against the Nazis and which liberated the concentration camps. That is the first thing you see walking into that place, before you even get to the ticket counter. Inside, you will have exhibits of soldiers who fought the Nazis and who died, also remembering the countries involved,, the history, and you will also have special exhibits about not only Gays and Gypsies, but the mentally and physically infirm whom the Nazis killed as well. I take it that you've never been there.

If you happen to go to the Holocaust museum in Israel, the drive to the museum takes place along a road of lined trees forming a natural archway. Each tree is planted in memory if a non-Jewish person who saved the lives of Jews. Also, there are entire exhibits remembering the soldiers who died in WWII fighting the Nazis with flags and pictures and stories and personal items as well. They're remembered too.

And, by the way, it's not "Pro-Jew" but "Pro-Jewish". "Pro-Jew" is something Neo-Nazis say. And one does not have to be an "apologist" for pointing out that a cartoon is inherently anti-Semitic in tone and nature. There is a very good reason that this cartoon is considered anti-Semitic. It has to do with context and history as well as stereotypes. It's no different than if somebody had drawn a picture of an African-American eating watermelon and dancing on a porch. That would be incredibly racist and, I would hope, nobody here would tolerate that quietly.
 
Even if that were true, have you considered that perhaps the reason so much attention is focused on Iran is that it's a country developing nukes under control of a a freaking lunatic who stole the election and then used lethal force against the people of his country who protested that fact? Just a thought.
 
Riiiight, because there have never been any Asian racists, right? The fact that you're so hung up on Kate being white, and that you think that fact makes her ineligible to recognize a racist paints you as a racist.

Here's what you don't seem to get: the importance of the Holocaust isn't how many Jews died, it how and why they died. People die all the time. It's part of life. What doesn't happen all the time is the attempted systematic anihilation of an entire race of people by a power-mad dictator. And damn sure not in western civilization.
 
Bull crap. There is every bit as much racism amongst minorities as there is among white people, because it is far more socially acceptable to heap crap on the largest group. They're the only group I can think of that you can openly blame your problems on without earning the ire of society.

YOU sir, are a racist. You're insulting a nationality because of the actions of their ancestors? That's crap. You meet someone today who owned a slave or took part in the oppressive policies during the building of the intercontinental railroad, you go right ahead and hate them with all your might. But hating a race because a century ago a bunch of people who happen to share their DNA did some bad things is crap. We are responsible for our own actions. No one else's.

And no, I won't pardon you for thinking racist white people are worse. Instead, I'll file you away as the illogical, racist hypocrite you truly are.
 
For a while I moderated my local Occupy Facebook page and caught a load of crap because I was deleting Ron Paul spam and Sovereign Citizens craziness. Not because most of these people were supporting Ron Paul but because anytime anybody cried censorship some no-show loser would back them up. The result is now that about half of all Occupy boards are not moderated or poorly moderated and assholes can post crap.

Given that the crap complained about in the OP is a rather poor cartoon implying undue Israeli influence in U.N. and U.S. policies it's a huge freaking stretch to claim anti-semitism. If I searched long enough I'm sure I could find a similar criticism originating from inside Israel. I've certainly heard a similar criticism from a Rabbi.

If Holocaust Remembrance Day is to mean anything to non-jews then it has to support a code of ethics that applies to all peoples. Looking at the troubling condition of the people in Gaza and the West Bank that clearly isn't the case. If your people deserve human rights then my people deserve human rights. My mother's parents were arabs; born in Hebron. If you don't like what you see in the mirror clean it up.
 
See. that's one of the issues with having a "movement" based on a refusal to define itself. When you have no set goal, no set meaning, and no set spokespeople, *everyone*'s goals, views and causes are as much "the official" stance/goal/views of the movement as everyone else. That sounds nice in hippy magic land, but ultimately, it amounts to the fact that racists shouting about deporting X race, conspiracy nuts shouting about 9/11 being an inside job, Ron Paul worshipers yakkng about RP, etc...their claims of "this is what we're about" are all equally valid.
 
+Matthew Young Way to show your ignorance dude. You could have learned more about how Occupy groups actually come to decisions by watching nothing but The Daily Show. It's not quick and it's not pretty and it certainly has nothing like the time efficiency of the Democrat and Republican fat cats sliding out of a closed room and announcing who this year's candidates for Tweedledee and Tweedledum are.
 
Dude, there was no leader, no official cause, no spokesperson. It doesn't matter how many people in any group made a decision, without a system of leadership and/or representation, there can be no official anything, thus everything, regardless of how intelligent, stupid, hateful, loving, peaceful or violent, is equally valid. That's not ignorance, it's common sense.
 
hahahah...wow what rubbish people talk in defence of us jews....
i know it is part of our world defence that we single ourselves out for special protection as a religion, as a people.... and my god knows, i love our genes and the fabulous things about us....but i so detest that 'lack-wits' are recruited to shout 'anti-semitic' on our behalf....
 
Holy necro post.

Huh. Looks like Anthony Park's posts were all deleted. Now the flow of the conversation looks weird.
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