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Steven Brust
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Steven Brust was in a video call with 2 people. <a class='ot-hashtag' href='https://plus.google.com/s/%23hangoutsonair'>#hangoutsonair</a>Skyler White and Jennifer Melchert
The Incrementalists--Reading
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Andrew McCollough's profile photoWill Shetterly's profile photoJeff Kozel's profile photo
 
Great reading, Steven&Skyler. I'm looking forward to reading your book.  I really enjoy hearing the authors read their own work. Tolkien reading the hobbit, Gaiman reading The Graveyard Book. Thanks. 
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Steven Brust

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Well said!  Brief and dead on.
In my youth, my definition of patriotism was Carl Schurz's: “My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” This was a time when "America: Love it or leave it" was a popular slogan wit...
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Phil Stracchino's profile photoWill Shetterly's profile photo
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+Phil Stracchino Where are the "outright lies" documented? And why would any halfway sane person choose to take on the US government for fun? I agree with your final statement, but if your enemy's enemy is exposing your enemy's wrongdoing, at that time, your enemy's enemy is not your friend, but is your ally.
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The term came up on the first panel, in fact; the one on idiom.  I asked what it meant--assuming it was a good thing--and was told it meant using elements of another culture badly and/or disrespectfully.  With that definition, I don't have a problem saying it's a bad thing from an artistic viewpoint.

I daresay others use drastically different definitions, that focus more on who the artist is than on the work.
Two panels at the Fourth Street Fantasy Convention thrashed around the subject of cultural appropriation. I wasn't on "Syncretism, Real and Fantastic", so I can't take the blame there. I dove into it on "Journey's End" becaus...
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Steven Brust's profile photoIan Borchardt (Reverance Pavane)'s profile photoWill Shetterly's profile photo
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+Ian Borchardt If it's any comfort to the Aussies concerned with the purity of their language, I'm not the only American who's adopted "no worries".
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Steven Brust

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Steven Brust and Skyler White will have a Hangout On Air to read from their book The Incrementalists.
Live Reading from The Incrementalists!
Tue, July 16, 2013, 9:00 PM

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Will Shetterly's profile photoLaurence Brothers's profile photoEvan "Skwid" Langlinais's profile photoNoah Diamond's profile photo
 
An interesting story to be sure.  I wonder if they will deal with the idea that since we learn from our mistakes preventing them through meddling might lead to bigger mistakes.
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Steven Brust

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I can understand the temptation to go, "Here are two people, taking opposite positions, who are wrong in corresponding ways, so let us equate them."  This temptation ought to be resisted.

Beale is a white supremacist.  Our efforts must to go to defeating him and the capitalist system he openly defends.  If you were making it clear that the problem with Jemisin is that her supposed opposition in fact undercuts itself and, in the last analysis, supports the Beales of this world, I could only agree.  

 But to equate the two: the white supremacist, and the misguided opponent of racism, is unscientific and, to say the very least, distasteful.  I urge you to reconsider your position.
In N. K. Jemisin's Continuum GoH Speech, she called Theodore Beale, aka Vox Day, "a self-described misogynist, racist, anti-Semite, and a few other flavors of asshole." He rejected that characterization in A black female fant...
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Anne Gray's profile photoWill Shetterly's profile photo
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Whew! Anne, I'm very grateful for that.

I'm not sure how anti-racism got tangled up in social justice, but the entire social justice movement began with Catholics in the 1840s as an alternative to socialism, and CRT was very quickly adopted by social justice workers (and here, I'm using workers to say these aren't the folks who get called social justice warriors online, but are people who actually worked). My guess is that some or all of the CRT founders came out of a Christian tradition, so that influenced the development of their theory, too.
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Will, I think you and the columnists are wrong to claim this is about censorship. To say, "What you said pisses me off and I don't think you should say it," isn't censorship, it's argument.  

But now there are those who want the column pulled. I think  at that point it does become censorship, or at least starts to look like it in bad lighting.  I think that would be a mistake.

Within a professional organization, when someone uses a platform of that organization to say something abhorrent, I think the right move is to point out that it is abhorrent, and why, and use it as a vehicle to improve understanding of the issue. I may be missing some things here.  But I am worried by the, "A lot of us found what you said offensive, so your bullhorn is being taken away" approach.  

Here are the questions: 1) Where is the line between, "reflecting an attitude offensive to many people," and, "so blatantly and obviously offensive that if you don't see the problem you're morally bankrupt.." 2) Who gets to decide where that line is for a professional organization? Is it all members,or is it only (or primarily) only those in the group in question?  

Number 2, by the way, isn't a rhetorical question; I honestly don't know the answer.  The argument that woman should get all, or at least the lion's share, of say in determining how offensive that was has a lot of virtue.

Why can't anything be easy?

--skzb
The most objective account I've found of the basic events in the Great Flamewar about Mike Resnick, Barry Malzberg, and the SFWA Bulletin is in Russell Davis's Sexism and SFWA—but it should be noted that, as always happens in...
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James Veitch's profile photoカズエルデビッド's profile photoWill Shetterly's profile photoEvan "Skwid" Langlinais's profile photo
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カズエルデビッド, I would say SJWs are wrong-headed, not in their goals, but in their tactics. Though having said that, I also have to add that their tactics are surprisingly effective when used against economically-privileged, well-meaning, ignorant people.

But I fully agree that if people really wanted light, they would not be so quick to use flames.
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Have him in circles
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