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This is the danger of a Sovereign Nation using a non-sovereign currency owned & controlled by Bankers. This is the reason the Euro Bankers have the power to control the financial future of the Debtor Nations in the Common Market.

America came very close to suffering this same fate. It is way past time we brought the Federal Reserve Banks under the complete control of the Government. It is time our currency served the needs of its people and not the Greed of its Corporate Bankers.
eric s.'s profile photoDunken K Bliths's profile photoWilliam Hodge's profile photoSam Liddicott's profile photo
So true, but I think Europe will pull down the whole world when it goes... 
Immunity from every form of judicial process...
See Bretton Woods treaty 1944. My thinking is that it's a bit late.
There are a lot of omissions. I would be interested to see the full text in order to be sure that the omitted text does not alter what the text lays out.
I don't see much decline in economies atm....
Ok, this is pretty shocking, and disappointing.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Thomas Jefferson
Europe = third world communist shithole. You can't even arm went through WORLD WAR I AND II and you STILL pass laws to ban weapons?

and then you wonder where your sovereignty went?
Then war would be inevetable,hopefully not though!
+Ananthu Rajagopal, also, Europe is one country, communists rule it, and being through 2 world wars only means that you need to buy more arms. lol
+Matija Pa Alternatively, don't trade arms, and fight wars, easier and better. But then what would happen to US and Russian arms exports?
Ever notice that there are countries in Europe that you rarely, if ever, here about in the news? I think those are the countries that are "doing it right."
+tim o'brien - " all the nations in europe are sovereign nations." That is true. What is NOT true is that the Euro is a sovereign currency. It is in fact a currency created by a consortium of European Banks.

Sovereign Nations of Europe owe dept to the Corporate Banks and the Banks have the power to over-rule the Governments of Nations and force payment. That makes the "sovereign nations" subject to the will of Corporate Banks and subverts the rule of Democracy.

In America the Member Banks hold stock in the Federal Reserve Banks and elect the individual governing Boards of the 12 Banks. But they do not have the power to run the Banks. The operating policy of the Reserve Banks and all of the member Corporate Banks is set by a Board that is appointed by President and approved by the Senate.

The actual law that set up the Federal Reserve System is written by Congress. It has the power to create money and pay all government debt. It is impossible for Corporate Banks to foreclose on the Nation. The Nation has unlimited money. Only Congress can limit Government Money. In Europe it is the private Banks that control the Money supply.
did u say bedouine nations? hmmm i wonder what that means really...
eric s.
Having a monetary union without fiscal & political union is at the heart of the problem.
eric s.
Lazarus is right, Many countries in Europe have been doing things right for years (mostly in the North e.g. Germany, Scandinavia, Switzerland, Austria. Its really only the southern tier countries that are in trouble. You wont hear this in The States due to anti-European bias. Frankly, The U.S. is in no position to brag about anything with 5 trillion in bad real estate loans still on the books!
+Hamilton Kulchetscki I don’t know why my earlier comment was deleted but it was in response to Hamilton Kulchetscki’s comment at 11:50:03 AM on April 21. It was originally posted just after 1:50 PM on April 21. Here it is again:

Financially the US has the largest national economy on Earth. The US economy is 3 times the size the next largest national economy.

The United States (One country) has 25.48% of World GDP. The European Union (27 countries) has 27.92% of World GDP.


+eric s. The US doesn’t have an anti-European bias, Republican politicians like to use the specter of European socialism as a tool but most Americans have a favorable opinion of Europe. Americans actually tend to romanticize European culture.

I live in the US and I have heard, thanks to NPR, how successful the economies of northern Europe are and how many of their citizens don’t want to pay to bail out countries like Greece. Please don’t take American mainstream news media as anything more than infotainment or political pandering.

The US isn’t bragging. We don’t have any Federal agency that would be responsible for bragging. Any such activity would be from individuals and thus not official US policy.

I should point out that two of the EU’s largest economies; Germany and Italy, representing almost one third of the EU GDP, face serious economic problems in the coming decades due to an aging population. The US will be able to avoid this common symptom of wealthy nations thanks to immigration.
The point to understand is that the Bank of England may be independent of normal Government operations, but it is not independent of Government Law. Its authority [as is all central Bank authority] authorized by Law. It has the power to create money with out reference to Reserves.

It therefor cannot run out of money any more that the earth can run out of existence. The Central Bank may uses its power simply to guarantee the profit of Corporate Banks or it can use it to cause labor, productive capacity, and raw materials to work together to cause things to happen. What the Central Bank does can be controlled by Government if the political will exist to do so.
+tim o'brien - There is no such thing as European elections. There is no Country of Europe. The European Common Market is created by treaty of the Nations involved. The citizens of those individual Nations have no direct input into the actions of the Governing Body of the Common Market.

The Common Market has a separate governing body for the creation of the Euro and the amount of money it creates is not determined by any direct input form the Common Market Nations. In fact not all Common Market Nations use the Euro.

The Governance of the Euro currency is by a separate commission, Its purpose is to protect the interest of the participating Corporate Banks and not the interest of the participating Nations. Individual Nations are subject to the will of the Banks and not the Common Market.

The power of the Sovereign Nations in the Common Market is subverted by the Creators of the Currency. Just ask the Greeks and the Italians who had their Governments taken over by people who answer to the Euro Banks and not to their Parliaments.
You are quite right tim. I stepped over the bounds. Yet it remains that no European Nation that uses the Euro has control of their own currency. it remains that Germany and France exercise the greatest amount of power in decision making in the amount of currency to create and in making sure that their interest have precedence over the people of the Piigs. The people had no input over the Austerity that was imposed over them in order to insure that the Banks got their pound of flesh.

I have two principles about creating currency.
1. It should be a Sovereign currency under the control of a sovereign Government.
2. Taxpayers should never have to be forced to pay interest to borrow money from for profit Bankers.

If Europe were a Nation and not a loose confederacy that is dominated by one or two Nations, then and only then should they use a common currency that allows the export nations to bleed the import nations.

There has been and never will be a balance of export/imports between nations. A floating currency system is the only way that every nation can control its own destiny and not be forced to unwillingly serve the interest of others. A weak currency is the only monetary system that keeps a Nation from buying what it cannot afford.
eric s.
Why is everyone only arguing the perceived down-side to taking the Euro (i.e. the loss of Some sovereignty). Why is nobody discussing the alternative which is clear...those countries that might chose to leave will be forced to revert back to their own currencies e.g. the Drakma (in the case of Greece ) and try to trade with a worthless currency. Does anyone really think Greece, Spain, or Even Italy would have access to the credit markets if they left simply walked away from their obligations? Nobody on this earth would lend them $$$ again. I dont pretend to understand economics but if your country loses access to the credit markets your done.
China owns hundreds of billions in US Debt. If tomorrow they insisted that the US Treasury redeem all of the Debt they own, the Federal Reserve Banks could do it in a matter of seconds. That is the advantage of a Nation creating its own currency.

Then China would have several hundred billion US Dollars. They could deposit those dollars in Internationale Bank Reserve accounts. They could sell them to others who needed dollars to purchase Goods & Services priced in American Dollars. They could use the Dollars themselves to purchase Goods & Service from America.

The point is that they could not force America into submission over Debt. No one can. Would it affect the markets in the price of Goods and services? Of course it would. But America would in a short period of time adjust to producing the things it now buys from China. We would have to import less but we would produce more. America is still the largest producer of Good & Services in the World.

If American Debt was in Euros we would be at the mercy of the Banks who create Euros. All countries who use Euros now have surrendered their Sovereignty to a Banking Commission for whom they do not vote and do not control. They have given up their peoples destiny to a Confederation that offer them nothing but the right to pay interest on Magic Money that they could have just as easily created for themselves and paid no interest. If the Nations of Europe are going to surrender the power to control their own destiny, they would be well advised to demand equal power in running their Central Government. Otherwise they will be ruled by those who see money as a means to profit and not the power to achieve.
but the money would be worth Diddly and your toilet paper would become the currency !
+Dunken K Bliths You believe in a myth my friend. The value of the US Dollar is back by the capacity of the US to produce Goods & Services. American productive is still by far the greatest in the World. That capacity would quickly grow to respond to increase export demand caused by a cheaper dollar. The dollar would quickly stabilize. It is a natural result of a floating money exchange rate.
Lets hope for your sake +William Hodge (and the rest of the world) but I think you will see the effects of Hyper-inflation in the next year or so...(I'll stick my stake in the ground...and make a prediction)
+William Hodge I think the value of the US Dollar is backed by their ability to enforce the trading of oil in US Dollars. This makes US Dollars valuable and helps the US to import.
+Dunken K Bliths During the worst years of the current money crisis, dollars flowed into the US to buy US debt and kept the interest rate to almost zero. That sounds like confidence in the US monetary system, not fear.
+Sam Liddicott The US does not force oil to be sold for dollars. The countries that produce oil insist on dollars. Again, that speaks to confidence in the dollar, not fear.

But both of those things miss the point. The value of the dollar against other currencies is a function of the continuous action by money traders. That value set by the market place will determine the cost of our imports and therefore how much we manufacture ourselves or if we can create substitutes for what we import.

The value of the dollar [or any currency] is determined by available skilled labor, manufacturing capacity, and raw materials. The currency is merely the medium of transfer and will adjust to the law of supply and demand for the components of producing goods and service. That is why it is critical for a Sovereign Nation to control its own currency if it is going to control its own destiny.

The United States first formed an Confederation of States that did not have a currency after the Revolution. The system failed. Then we formed a Strong Central Government with the power under the Constitution to create Money to survive as an Independent Sovereign Nation.

While we have had to battle Internationale Banks for 200 years to preserve and use that power, we have for the most part succeeded. Our role in saving the Monetary system of the whole world in the current crisis has testified to our strength in maintaining the dollar as the World Currency.
+William Hodge "The US does not force oil to be sold for dollars. The countries that produce oil insist on dollars. Again, that speaks to confidence in the dollar, not fear."

I strongly disagree. I think that the US has gone to great effort, political and military, to have oil sold in dollars, and to maintain regimes that are willing to insist on dollars for oil. Pretty much this alone has driven the demand for dollars - - otherwise the value of the dollar would be determined by available skilled and unskilled labor, manufacturing capacity, and raw materials. (It seems that most of the raw materials in the US are locked up in EPA or BLM land).

I think that this change in dollar value is in progress, but is less visible as other western currencies under go re-valuation and instability.

Interesting read here, for those who are interested:
+Hamilton Kulchetscki I believe I said in my last comment on this post "The value of the dollar [or any currency] is determined by available skilled labor, manufacturing capacity, and raw materials. The currency is merely the medium of transfer and will adjust to the law of supply and demand for the components of producing goods and service. That is why it is critical for a Sovereign Nation to control its own currency if it is going to control its own destiny."

Just because a Nation does not keep a valuable commodity in storage to transfer to another country in exchange for the Nations Sovereign currency does not mean the Nation has nothing to back its money.

As long as it can produce Goods & Services at a price that holders of its currency want to purchase, the currency has value. The less it has to export, the less its goods & service can purchase from others. The Nation must produce or decline.

It has done so for more than 200 year. Though charts make it look like the dollar has lost 95% of its value in the last 100 years, the truth is that a days worth of pay will now purchase a great deal more than it did 100 years ago. The dollar has in effect increased in value to the working person. It cost a lot less to buy a pair of Pants in work time now than it ever did before.

I remember when Japan was accumulating huge reserves in American dollars and the value of the Dollar was falling against the Yen. Japan Companies paid an amazing price to buy a famous Golf Course in California [I think] OMG -the cry went up that America was being sold out. Guess what? Japan never was able to ship the Golf Course back to Japan. It just paid property tax for decades and made a small income from the property. Finally they sold it back to America at a loss and the American currency held its value.
+William Hodge WIlliam, I agree with your points about a nation controlling it's own currency. My points about dollars and oil are just so because of this.

It is not just the goods and services produced by a nation that determine the value of the currency; it is the value of goods and services available in exchange for that currency that determine it's value.

The US has to maintain a shortage of dollars with respect to the price of oil - which can be done by raising the price of oil or controlling the main suppliers of oil.

This prevents the devaluation of the dollar that has been received in exchange for oil. It allows that dollar to be traded to those who want to buy goods and services from USA or who want to buy more oil.

If US exports can't match the dollar re-cycling rate then the value of the dollar will drop as the oil producers (or those they traded with) can't get value spending them. Conveniently if the dollar value drops, the price of oil rises to keep the dollar scarce and retain the dollar value

Otherwise, all that can be bought with those dollars, that can't be bought cheaper elsewhere, will be American real estate.

All this is good for USA because as you say they maintain their own currency, even if by blood and the sword.
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