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Jouko Voutilainen
Worked at Lights and Perfections
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Jouko Voutilainen

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Being mormon and having served a mission (to Sweden, yes it's funny) I find it somewhat entertaining how people still use these examples as saith shattering evidence for the falsehood of Joe Smith's claims. Sure, it's easy to find "dirt" on the mormon church online, but most of it is regurgitated nonsense from the infamous anti-mormons. 

I've gone through most of this stuff in my early twenties and it was a kind of tough process, but a necessary one. If you want to know what's up, you should do an extensive reading into the history of the church and its (you know, the church's) records, since they actually wrote down what happened and what people were doing back then. Just glancing over some websites online doesn't do justice the discussion on the mormon faith. Just saying...

As to the translation of the Book of Mormon...the plates were given to Joseph Smith by an angel. What difference does it make that his initial mode of translation was odd? The seer stone was also used in ancient Hebrew practices. I mean, we're talking about an angel here, right? Doesn't that qualify bat skit crazy already? Moses parted the Red Sea and Noah road on an ark filled with every species of animals known to man (right?) and mormons are nut cases because we think crazy things didn't seize and desist after Biblical times. Lock me up Jones, I believe in angels.
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+NEW BRITANNIA it is funny to see how Jouko just ass raped you in your own folly!

He had the right point and attitude troughout thus conversation while you bitched like a little teenager with a tantrum.

I found it very hilarious when you said things like that Science has prooven false; then you gave list of so called doctrines, which science has refuted, while ignoring the fact that theological issues or things like Kolobs existance, cannot be refuted by science, at least not for the foreseeable future.

I found it most ridiculous that you constantly bring out stuff about space stuff as our doctrine when none of those claims are doctrine.

There are plenty of speculation about doctrine but for you to lampoon those speculations and to make them our official canonical doctrine is either, proof of your ignorance about mormonism, or proof of your dishonesty.

Most Mormons I know don't believe that creation started 6000 years ago neither do our teaching manuals teach that.

Even if we accept the existance of Adam and Eve, it is not maintained how all of human population started. Pearl of great price opens door for evolution as you should know if you are knowledgable about mormonism.

Yes we believe that life exists elsewhere in the universe and speculate with that knowledge with real universe as far we understand. If that is ridiculous to you, I don't care since I know there is God from personal experience so I try to fit the data in to the real world as well as possible but never dare to claim that as doctrine or final word on the matter. But you are using such investigations here as official mormon doctrine, which they are not!

I personally think that Adam and Eve came to a world where humans already existed. I come to this conclusion without creating a dogma about it thus. Binbe clearly shows in the Genesis account that God commanded earth to bring forth grass, trees and animals while God created Adam himself. It says that adam was placed in the Garden after he was created. Book of Abraham says that Gods prepared the warers to bring forth life; which to me, sounds evolutionary. Book of Mormon makes clear that before the fall, Adam and Eve actively partook of the tree of life before the forbiddwn fruit, which makes it clear that dearh came only because they were separeted from the tree of life thus I understand that anything outside the garden of Eden, could and would die before the fall thus making evolution compatible with the scriptures at least in part.
Brigham Young entertaines the idea that Adam would have been brought from another world, even though this is not doctrine but speculation, I am partial to this theory.
We learned from the temple that tjere were people outside the garden and that they were civilized enough to have monetary trade. Ancient people from Sumer to Babylon also talk about these visitors from other worlds who taught writing and civilizational skills and were larger than refular people. Since Joseph Smith said that he saw in a vision Adam and Eve and that they vere very large, I started to entertain the Idea that they were the first watchers sent to earth as the Book of Enoch calls the Giants.

Maybe their children mixed with the less sophisticated humans from earth and may have lived 900 years while their genes were more pute but declined in age as their genes were removed further and further from the Giants/watchers.

This is one theory but this theory is proof for me that your assumptions are no proof at all. There is a way around your "scientific" proof.

Problem with you is that you are wholly dependent on what others, smarter and more educated than you, say; while I try to figure out for myself tjese things. I do read books to learn facts from those who have laboured in the given field far longer, but far be it from me to start taking their opinions as authority in interpretation of my own life experience.

The flood is interesting since all major cultures from middle-east to China and Meso-america have a very similar Noah story taught which was independent from the bible version with some variations of course. Whether the flood was local or global is irrelevant to me, all around the world primitive sociaties knew it though. Church haven't turned the flood stort into a dogma. Baptism of the world is an assumption based on spiritual values and not rebelation from God but I am willing to believe the whole world was engulfed but I am not a bit moved if contrary could be proven since that has no doctrinal necessity for me as it might be for you.

The fact that Enichs city was taken to God is not the same as space, and doesn't necessitate that all the buildings were taken too, it may have been the people only. It is assumed that the whole city with buildings was taken but nothing forces that interpretation. There's no revelation claiming that the city is flying in the space somewhere. If it was, there's no quarantee that you could find it anyway with your telescopes since big asteroids are many times noticed by nasa just before they pass the earth quite closely. Enoch's city would be far smaller than those asteroids but why should I defend a point that I, nor the church even teaches as truth.

For you to make such a long list of science claims to refute Mormonism when in fact, we are quite open on all of those issues, makes it clear that you are desperate to demonise us when you have to turn into space stories and fanrasies. Bye the way, how has science prooven false the seer stone story???
How could it ever be prooven false???

It is sad if Mormonthink is your only source in understanding mormonism. You could also go to http://fairlds.org they have pretty much responded to all claims that mormonthink makes. might broaden your horizon to chexk that out.

Bye the way, if you read the book of mormon, you would know that there was no skin color changing; it happened teoughout generations. Children of the nephites would change their color if they mixed with lamanites but if lamanites mixed with the nephites their next generation would be whiter again and concerning the future of the lamanites who would join the covenant people it says that not many generations would pass untill they would be white. This being ifcourse both spiritual and genetical. Being a nephite would make them part of God's covenant people and as a nephite their children would be white when muxing with nephites for generations thus not many generations would pass untill they would be white as the nephites again.

The faxt that you didn't know this while claiming to be a huge mormon expert, says much against your pretensions.

But I got to watch some falling skies with my wife so peace and out!
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Jouko Voutilainen

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Funny how scientists always think they know what other people are experiencing. It's also interesting that these near death experiences are far more common than previously though. Also, the experiences are often times very consistent. So,

millions of people have been "high" and basically saw the same thing?
It's ok to be critical, but just because something doesn't fit your understanding or world view doesn't mean it isn't real or worth studying. Fact is that scientists don't have a way of studying these experiences because their techniques are too limited and crude. Atheists seem to be just as closed minded as hard core believers. So, what's new?
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One would expect these "near death experiences" to be consistent if they are merely a result of neural malfunction. We all have the same brain physiology and the experiences tend to occur under very similar circumstances with oxygen deprivation being a key aspect. What many people don't realize is that "out of body" experiences can be triggered by drugs (ketamine) or in other instances such as a G-force chamber. Do the research.
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Jouko Voutilainen

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Yup, and the iPhone was supposed to take over mobile gaming from 3DS, but that didn't happen. Although mobile devices are popular, gaming on them sucks. The problem is with the controls. I am not excited about getting a tablet, buying a separate joystick, and finding a fitting HDMI cable for my device. Devices planned solely for gaming handle the task far better than your mobile devise (that you can play on 2-3 hours before the battery runs dry). 

This might be the last generation of consoles, that I agree with, but I see gaming moving to something else. Maybe back to PC, where innovation is rearing its head due to indie companies and low cost development. Steam OS is something to look into. I won't be playing games on my 4 core 2 Gig Optimus G phone. The games just aren't there.
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Plus, when you look at gaming on phones, you must ignore the fact that separate gamepads exist. Devs wont intentionally use development time to something which actually limits their customer base. Unless all phones start coming with gamepads, it does nothing. Its why very few games integrate kinect even tho there is legit uses for it. (although not by itself. Things like literally using your body as extra buttons, for example, turning on some kind of heat vision in an FPS by tapping your temple)
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Jouko Voutilainen

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Ever Played Mr.Nutz in the nineties? If you did, you probably still remember the song in the woods during the night time. It's been haunting me for a few decades so I decided to make my own version of it. Check it out!
woodytunesnight
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Jouko Voutilainen

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Hey people! We've got our first commercial product out and, so now we're going to shamelessly promote the crap out of it!
You might ask "But, Jokke, why should I pay for a videogame you made?" Here's a few good reasons:
1. As a man, I am obligated, nay! -blessed, with the privilege of pleasing my wife and keeping her happy. You buying my game makes this possible!

2. After more than a year of working, I'd like to take some time off with my family and do something that doesn't involve computers etc.(pity me!)

3. Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. I'm out of clothes. Shopping's hard when you got more than just your groceries hangin loose. Just saying...

Seriously, though. We managed to add a working multiplayer with three different modes into the game. Works cross platform, is a lot of fun, and costs less than using the toilet. Savvy?

You'll love it. You'll love it even if you're not a dude. I promise!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lpware.flushedpremium&feature=search_result#?t=W10.
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Jouko Voutilainen

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Oh yea, check out the game too...and our infomercial!
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Jouko Voutilainen

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Nah, it's cool. I admit, a lot of bitching this episode, but the situation in the states is bad. I get that. I'm OK with people venting and being human. You don't get that on TV. Then again, I also agree on what Tycoon was saying about attitude. I don't want to be all preachy, but there's something to be said about humility and taking it like a man. I'm without a job, too. It sucks and its tough. I will be getting unemployment benefits, but I don't want to live like that. Essentially I consider it to be wrong. Hope Chase gets a job soon. I'll become a supporter again once I have a steady income. Great job guys, but tone down the bitching ;)
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Jouko Voutilainen

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Actually, God doesn't live on Kolob, but rather Kolob is the star closest to Gods throne. If I remember correctly, Kolob is also the largest star in heaven. If that's crazy compared to everything else you can find from Christianity, well...where do you drive the line? I am not an atheist, by the way.  

Also, this guy Walter was actually pretty cool. Can't say the same thing about Bill Maher. Bill is a dick. I think he knows it too and doesn't quite care.
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+Skyler Stevens this comment was an answer to.... what exactly? These random bible quotations are not impressive. Any one could use the same passage to condemn you.
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Jouko Voutilainen

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LOL!
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Jouko Voutilainen

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Jouko Voutilainen

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Ok, I'll stop after this. Just forgot one more thing...OUR INFOMERCIAL!
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