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Chan !
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Secrets declassified (Golden Dawn edition)
Secrets declassified (Golden Dawn edition)
gleamingsfromthedawn.blogspot.be
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Chan ! commented on a post on Blogger.
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Chan ! commented on a post on Blogger.
I just read David's most recent article and talk about dark fluff... he makes E.A. Koetting look like a christian saint. Like a proper schizophreniac, he once again abandons the realm of reality entirely and makes the claim that magick is not a science. There is however no amount of sand you can blow into someones face which can make up for a lack of substance Mr. Griffin. Since you mentioned it, it does seem that you were never able to venture beyond the level of the stage magician, and since those with a basic understanding of logical fallacies clearly see through and beyond your smoke and mirrors you're not even a very good one at that.

"Yet, magick is not science.  It certainly has empirical and even experimental components, but it is as much of an art as it is a craft.  The claims of a magician are not repeatable and not falsifiable, any more than those of a historian operating in the paradigm of the humanities rather than the social sciences."

What's that again? A contradiction within a contradiction within a contradiction? It has empirical and experimental components  but it's not a science? I'm somewhat wondering if you've fallen victim to your own mirror spell, since most of the article is written in this house of mirrors manner, and it leaves me wondering if this time you've really lost it. Anyway, magick performed under the same circumstances will yield the same results (and these results can be very general or very specific, depending on the quality of the magick performed and the intention of the practitioner of course). If this wouldn't be the case there would be no reason for practicing magick, it would be pure make-belief (which to be honest, does indeed seem to be the name of your game) What beats me is how you can claim that magick isn't falsifiable right after we falsified your statements that your magick had anything to do with events that were already happening before you cast your spell, and didn't even come close to your desired outcome and statement of desire. So yes, magick is falsifiable.

Just because something doesn't conform to scientific dogma does not mean it isn't science.


(Obviously magick is also an art. There does not have to be a contradiction here. Think for example of architecture which is both science and art. And I do realize that there are models where magick is being seen as distinct from science, be it modern science or science in general. While I can see the usefulness of such models they do not indicate in any way that magick isn't a science in itself, and the scientific method still applies albeit for every practitioner individually if we are talking about personal magick. In this regard it isn't very different from psychology.)

And so the same psychological sleight of hand tricks and putting up a straw man to attack continue. Going on for an hour about those men and women who combined magickal practices with politics? What was that all about? As if anyone in this discussion ever claimed that politics and magick can't be combined. Which ones of those you mentioned performed a weak binding and then claimed success for something which couldn't have been their doing (and then turned it into a marketing campaign)?

"Our expectation was certainly not that the performance of this specific spell, by any number of operators, would be any more effective than a massive prayer vigil.  It seems equally naïve, however, to believe that it would be less effective."

Mirror Mirror... on the wall...

"We are already beginning to notice the aftermath of this unique historical event – this Spellworking unlike anything the world had seen before. From Africa to Australia, from Asia through Europe and the Americas, may each one of us always remember: You are free. You are powerful. You are not alone. Together – We are invincible."

It's not like you're dealing with "millions of nutters praying five times a day for a caliphate, millions of escapees praying for a safe and peaceful return to their homeland, superpowers trying to do everything in their power to gain control over the region, smaller states trying to get a piece of the pie, media indoctrination etc. etc. (All forms of highly concentrated energies way stronger than a couple of magickians could raise) What are a couple of magickians gonna do against this mess with a badly worded spell and a piece of yarn?", like I said before.

"Yet, we would never tell a novice that if he or she cursed an enemy to destruction and then never heard from that person again, that the novice was a failure, a time-waster, or delusional.  We would instead encourage them to develop increasing discrimination, diligence, and discernment, and cultivate opportunities for increasingly literal results."

Mirror Mirror on the wall...

In other words we shouldn't tell them they had failed but open the morning papers and randomly pick a story to tie it to their "success" and encourage their delusion. Oh wait, encourage them to develop discrimination and cultivate opportunities for increasingly literal results etc.? Wouldn't telling someone to develop discrimination be the same as telling them they're at least a little bit delusional in this case? Wouldn't telling someone to cultivate opportunities for increasingly literal results be the same as telling them their results aren't literal enough yet, and they're failing?

You're trying to bind a giant with a thin piece of thread, because " An adept who is afraid to break the supposed “Laws of Magick” or transgress the often self-imposed limitations of possibility is no adept at all.  Magick is not a negotiation with the universe – it is an attack on reality." or in other words just bind a terrorist organization consisting of millions to a tree with a piece of yarn because self-imposed limitations of possibility and attack on reality. Let's just do a whole bunch of other useless stuff without reasoning and see if we can transcend the laws of nature, like barking like a dog every time we meet an old lady to see if we can physically levitate without magnets or other tools. Or let's snort red hot chili peppers to see if we can make Tutankhamun's mummy come back to live and arise out of his sarcophagus or whatever it is they keep him in. Let's just be honest... You are a failure, a time-waster, and you seem to be delusional Mr. Griffin. See... that's how easy it is.. But then again, I'm not trying to coax any money out of your pocket.

"That our spell coincides with military victory demonstrates its aeonic coherence;"

It doesn't demonstrate anything, except signs of schizophrenia. Isis is in the news every couple of hours. There's always a considerable chance that there's some "victory" being reported.

"the acausal synchronicities of spellworking can be neither proven nor disproven, but they can be experienced."

Acausal synchronicities?? Mirror mirror... If these synchronicities would be the result of your spell then how are they acausal? But actually they have been disproved, at least thus far that the actual events weren't the result of your spell, otherwise I would love to hear more about your 10=1 techniques for retroactive magick. Can you keep Hitler from ever having been born?

Synchronicities shouldn't be confused with the results. Synchronicities can happen without the actual desire ever manifesting.

Mirror Mirror on the wall... who's the biggest narcissist of us all??
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Chan ! commented on a post on Blogger.
@David Griffin and by the way:

"Oh yea, that's another thing Watcher claimed...
… because much of the damage done to Daesh was done by Russian jets, and Daesh doesn’t have a air force, then that couldn't have been a result of the massive, worldwide cooperative spell we cast. 
Clearly, the only way murder can come back on the murderers in a binding spell, is by killing them in EXACTLY, PRECISELY the same way they murdered."

It's not about murder and being murdered, or about them getting killed exactly and precisely the same way they murder. It's about the disproportion of force. It's not times, three.. it's not even times nine.. To simplify the matter just think about the size of a bullet hole or the damage done by a grenade vs the massive crater left by a bomb dropped from a Russian fighter jet.

300x9=2700 and not 10000 (which would be times 33.33333333333etc.) And let's not forget that "According to Griffin’s binding they should have had all that turned against them and not escaped."

If you are going to address a point, make sure to get it first.
(or don't twist what was said into something else)
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