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Ubuntu modify upstream gnome-settings-daemon with a 11.1Mb patch file. I'm seriously tempted to auto-close bugs reported in gnome.org that have been opened because of an open bug in Launchpad. The sources are just two dissimilar.
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+Alexandre Prokoudine Maybe you're talking about http://pad.lv/970890 If not, I'm not sure I understand your "perfectly reasonable technical solutions" and doing work at somebody's expense.30 apr. 2012
+Jeremy Bicha The link you provided explains exactly why you are doing your work at our expense.
"Since we began using gnome-user-docs strings, we have always encouraged translators to upload upstream translations manually."
Encouraged to upload manually? This is just horrible arrogance.
Technical solutions range from using variables to using xref for reusing the content that hasn't changed. Yes, it might mean doing some extra work in the infrastructure, but you do it once. Instead you encourage us doing stupid unpaid work for free just to keep things in sync. Every time. Again and again.30 apr. 2012- I don't believe using xref would help a bit but please open a bug against ubuntu-docs if you have a way to really make things better. Unless GNOME wouldn't mind all of the Unity docs being pushed into g-u-d, then it's pretty much required that we fork the docs. There are simply too many small changes and the docs change too often for simple patching to work.
Why are you upset about "stupid unpaid work for free"? If you don't want to volunteer, don't. There's only a few people on the Ubuntu desktop docs team and none of them gets paid to do Ubuntu docs. Nor do I spend my time trying to make other people do more work.
LP translations does quite well for web-based translations. Yes, there are a few high importance technical problems that require manual workarounds. Of course, we'd appreciate anyone's help at fixing those bugs. By the way, I think it's helpful, not arrogant, for a volunteer to suggest a workaround to another volunteer when neither of them have the technical ability to fix the root problem.30 apr. 2012 
+Alexandre Prokoudine , +Jeremy Bicha is right about the situation with GNOME User Docs / Ubuntu docs. Jeremy and others do a good job of merging in all of the relevant update from Gnome User Docs, but at this point they are mostly separate projects.
There is the ability in Mallard to use conditionals that would allow one set of docs to appear if you're using GNOME Shell and another if you're using Unity . . . it isn't so much a matter of cluttering up our sources as it is an issue of time and resources. The GNOME folks have more been focused on getting a complete set of updated application help (3.4 doesn't have updated docs for Rhythmbox or GNOME Terminal . . . those docs are outdated) and developer docs, as well as docs for the new GNOME apps like Contacts and Boxes.
That said, it's unfortunate that the docs are so close in some areas (probably file management, for example) and the translation coverage varies so much in some languages.30 apr. 2012- +Jeremy Bicha "Why are you upset about "stupid unpaid work for free"?" — Is that a trick question? Do you actually understand what a translation is? I don't believe you do.
Let me try to explain it. There is a source document. It's in a single language and is probably written by one or two persons. Along come dozens of people and start translating. Yes, Jeremy, dozens, because, strange it may seem, the world speaks a lot of languages.
It means that somewhere a lot of time and energy is spent on getting this job done. And thanks to your brilliant work all this work has to be done twice. Because Canonical has no resources to make a technical solution, but feels all right about letting the community duplicate its own work. After all, the community doesn't have to be paid, does it?
And do you know why we do it twice even though technically we wouldn't have to? No, you obviously don't. That's what you said. But I'll tell you. It's because even though we do unpaid work, we take pride at what we do and we try to do it really well. We do our best, Jeremy, and we don't like the idea that someone won't see the work we did exactly as we did it. No, Jeremy, we bloody hate this very idea.
We treat this seriously. The problem is that you don't. And you never learn.
Do you think I like having to remind every year that Inkscape and GIMP translations should not be available in Rosetta? Why does it nevertheless happen every year? Why do I have to explain this again and again?
Folks, I love what you do with desktop Linux. But the way you communicate with upstream projects makes me want to throw up.
+Jim Campbell Excuse me? What is so different about docs for the control center? Has Ubuntu got a whole new control center all of its own? You are still using a lot of GNOME components as is.2 maj 2012 - +Alexandre Prokoudine I know that doing translations is a difficult and often thankless job, and I know that translation teams take great pride in what they do. It really is amazing stuff, and you do it only to benefit other people. However, I think that your frustration may be a bit misplaced here. Or at least I think you could cut +Jeremy Bicha some slack.
Jeremy does a lot to get vanilla GNOME shell and apps in a workable state in Ubuntu, and he also does a lot for Ubuntu docs. He is just one volunteer, like yourself. He doesn't only work on documentation, nor is he some kind of technical lead for documentation infrastructure. From my perspective, I think some of the frustration may be better directed at Canonical which (from what I know) does not employ a single person to work on user documentation. Not one. They have one person who coordinates translations (who also has many other responsibilities), and another person contributes heavily to askubuntu.com (who, again, also has many other responsibilities). I don't even really mean to give those people a hard time, either, because I know that they work very hard and try to make things easier for contributors.
My point is that (at least up to this point) their managers have made a business decision that says documentation is not important for them as a company. They don't see it as something that is worth investing in, or they think that the community will do a good enough job on our own. And the Ubuntu docs and translations teams should be very proud of what they have done on their own.
You reference control center docs, and you're right in that there wouldn't be much difference between docs for GNOME or Ubuntu in this area. I really don't know what kind of technical things would need to happen to migrate over the GNOME-based translations to ones appropriate for use in Ubuntu docs, though (or vice-versa). But that is part of what Canonical gets for switching to Unity. While the GNOME docs team can work on docs that benefit all distros that ship GNOME, if Canonical wants to ship stuff other than GNOME stuff, they will have to allocate resources to make sure the documentation is of good quality and well-translated.
For Jeremy, merging in relevant changed strings from GNOME docs is difficult enough. Trying to merge in changed strings and also pull in appropriate translations seems very difficult.
As for the problem(s) at hand, I wasn't aware of them. On the GNOME side, we do our reasonable best to make documentation portable between distros, but our primary responsibility is to make sure that GNOME docs are up to date themselves. If translations for a downstream distribution are very difficult because the downstream has greatly diverged from upstream . . . there's only so much that can be done by individual contributors, and those behind the decision to diverge should be willing to invest resources that make up the difference.
None of this is intended to fire up more flames. I hope I haven't offended you in any way.3 maj 2012
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