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Donaithnen Keir

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Okay, i haven't done anything with G+ in quite awhile. In large part because of LJs Russian issues and the fact that I haven't gotten around to figuring out how to transfer all of that stuff over to Dreamwidth.

But this seems likes a reasonable excuse to get back to posting stuff :)
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So i know i owe a better post than this, but anyone want to comment on a potential new PC setup?
(You can click on the View/Print All Specs" link to the left of the big orange "Add to Order" button to just see the components in this build.)

My 6.5 year old PC is not going to be able to play FF14 Stormblood so i need to get a replacement. It's a bit pricey (especially with the two 4TB WD Black HDs for the RAID) but i'm hoping it will last me at least another 5-7 years.

Any changes i should make? Or is there somewhere better is should be looking for a similarly spec'ed PC?
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Hugo Award Semifinals

Edit: I wrote this yesterday, not realizing that the finalists would be announced today. My speculations about who's likely to get nominated are moot, while my desire to promote people "not likely" to be nominated is even more fervent.

So here are the finalists:

Many things i voted for made it on, and many more that i voted for didn't! As you shall soon see! (/Edit)

Now that the deadline for the Hugo Award semifinals has passed and i no longer have to worry about accusations of slate voting, i'm going to share what i nominated.

Unfortunately i didn't spend as much time working on my ballot sheet as i did the past couple years, since i was on vacation a week prior to the deadline and before that was busy planning for the vacation.

However i did discover a couple online resources (a wiki and a google doc spreadsheet) people were using to compile lists of eligible works, which helped out a lot.

Best Novel
- All the Birds in the Sky; Charlie Jane Anders
- The Obelisk Gate; N. K. Jemisin
- Ghost Talkers; Mary Robinette Kowal
- Edge of Worlds; Martha Wells
- Wrath of the Great Guilds; Jack Campbell

Because of changes to the voting system for this year's Hugos my original plan was to vote for two "well known" things and two lesser well known things, leaving the fifth slot empty.

(In short, i agree with the general idea of trying to elimiante block voting, but instead of Single Transferable Vote with ranked selection which i prefer they went with a system where you have a single vote spread across all your remaining eligible nominees in the current round.)

However i ended up thinking of way too many books i wanted to vote for and had trouble narrowing it down to just five, much less four.

"All the Birds in the Sky" and "The Obelisk Gate" are my "safties". I read them and i liked them, though i had a couple issues with each. (I felt the ending to "All the Birds in the Sky" was a little weak, and the second person POV in alternating chapters of "The Obelisk Gate" still bothers me.) However both have also gotten a lot of critical praise (i believe both were nominated for the Nebulas?) and i would like to help make sure there are at least one or two books in the final round that i would feel comfortable (if not excited) voting for.

"Ghost Talkers" is middle of the road. Mary Robinette Kowal is a fairly well known author and has had multiple Hugo nominations and a couple wins before, but i don't think i've heard the kind of critical acclaim about this book that i would expect to lead to a Hugo nom. But still, i loved the book and it's at least got a shot.

"Edge of Worlds" and "Wrath of the Great Guilds", i loved both these books, but honestly they probably don't have a snowballs chance in hell of making the finals. I believe Martha Wells has had one Nebula nomination before and zero Hugo noms, and John G Hemry (who uses the pesudonym Jack Campbell) hasn't had any Nebula or Hugo noms.

They're also at a disadvantage because both of these books are parts of series, and usually it's far more likely that the first book in a series will be nominated. However "Wrath of the Great Guilds" does have a slight edge in that it is the last book of its series, which i would think would have better odds that some random book in the middle?

I did seriously consider voting for Ken Liu's "The Wall of Storms" instead of "Wrath of the Great Guilts", but 1: Ken Liu already has a couple Hugos while John G Hemry has none, and more importantly 2: I can vote for Ken Liu in another year or so when the third (and theoretically final?) book of the "Dandelion Dynasty" series comes out, but this was my last chance to vote for John G Hemry's "Pillars of Reality" series. (Though to be fair, he's already published the first book in a "daughter" series, so it won't be my last chance to vote for that universe.)

Best Novella:
- Every Heart a Doorway; Seanan McGuire
- The Liar; John P Murphy
- The Dispatcher; John Scalzi

And then pretty much immediately my nominations fall off a cliff, because i mostly read novel length fiction. This was actually a relatively exceptional level of non-novel reading this year! It certainly helps if two authors i love and one author i know all come out with novellas!

(I probably ought to have nominated one of Lois McMaster Bujold's new Chalion novellas, but i haven't gotten around to reading any of the 2016 ones.)

- The Tomato Thief; Ursula Vernon; Apex Magazine

Best Short Story:
- Our Talons Can Crush Galaxies; Brooke Bolander; Uncanny
- A Trump Christmas Carol; Roz Kaveney, Laurie Penny, John Scalzi,
and Jo Walton; Uncanny Magazine
- Ye Highlands and Ye Lowlands; Seanan McGuire; Uncanny Magazine

So i actually read a comparatively large number of short stories this year, mainly due to twitter and io9. Yes, three is a comparatively large number for me =P

(Well, i also read Ken Liu's "Paper Menagerie", and i think one other anthology? But by the time short stories come out in anthologies they're generally well past their Hugo expieration date.)

Best Related Work:
- IO9; Rob Bricken;
- The Tingled Puppies; Chuck Tingle;

Again, i mostly read novels. I was originally thinking of nominating a Storify of Chuck Tingle's trolling of the Puppies from last year, but i couldn't find a good source. And then i saw "The Tingled Puppies" in the aforementioned spreadsheet. If i'd known before that Chuck Tingle managed to hijack i must have forgotten about it. It's awesome, and it seems like a good alternative to the twitter trolling.

And since i was already nominating websites i threw in io9. Hey, they're responsible for some of the short story nominations above, so they probably deserve it!

Best Graphic Story:
- Oglaf; Bodil Bodilson; (NSFW)
- Homestuck; Andrew Hussie;

That thing about mostly reading novels? That doesn't include graphic ones. So normally i have very little to nominate here. But i saw these both in the list, and i've read and liked both (though i'm not current on Oglaf and very not current on Homestuck) so i figured why not? It's not clear from the category description on whether these actual qualify or not, but since i had nothing else to nominate, again, why not?

Best Dramatic Long:
- Rogue One
- Deadpool
- Kubo and the Two Strings
- The Expanse (season 1)
- Hidden Figures

Finally! Another category in which there were multiple things i could nominate!

Deadpool was silly but awesome, Rogue One and Kubo and the Two Strings were sad but awesome. The first season of The Expanse was awesome. Hidden Figures is maybe technically not SF, but still awesome :)

Best Dramatic Short:
- J.R.R. Tolkien vs. George R.R. Martin ; Epic Rap Battles of
- The Answer; Steven Universe
- Leviathan Wakes; The Expanse
- Salvage; The Expanse
Alcon Entertainment
- Critical Mass; The Expanse

So "JRR Tolkein vs George RR Martin" and Steven Universe were both ideas i got off the spreadsheet, though ones i wholeheartedly agreed with once they were pointed out.

I had been planning from the beginning to vote for an episode of The Expanse. The problem was, which one? Last year The Expanse didn't make it on (probably) because the vote got split between different episodes.

As a general rule i disagree with slate voting. However personally i don't see anything wrong with trying to coordinate with other fans of a series to agree on which is the best episode(s) to vote for in that series. Babylon 5 had a similar problem back in the day, and the fans eventually overcame that problem in the same manner.

Unfortunately these days there is no singular spot on the internet you can go to for a show such as the Lurker's Guide for Babylon 5, which means arriving at a consensus has gotten a bit more difficult.

I checked Reddit, i looked for some Wikis, i asked on twitter, and everyone seemed to have a different episodes, or two, or three, to recommend. Which is kinda impressive given that there were only six episodes eligible for this year!

After agonizing about it for far too long i realized something important. Last year i also wanted to nominate the Flash, and Supergirl, and maybe even Legends of Tomorrow (as cheesy as it is.) However that was when those shows were on Hulu and we were current on them. But last year all the DC shows switched from Hulu to CW's streaming service. We tried to watch them, really we did. But we had to do it on PC, and the website was awkward, and the commercials... there were soooo many commercials. And so many of the same ones kept repeating over and over and over...

If you have to watch the same ad before each episode on Hulu we can deal with it. (Not that we usually do since we started paying for the service.) But if you have to wath the same 3-5 ads before each episode, and in the middle of the episode, and then maybe again near the end, it starts getting overwhelming pretty quick.

So we have not seen the current seasons for most of those shows, so i had nothing from them i wanted to vote for. (Supposedly they'll be put on Hulu when after the seasons are over and hopefully we can watch them then.) And we haven't seen Stranger Things yet because i'm worried about how scary it will be. And i haven't seen Daredevil or the other eligible Marvel series yet because... i dunno, just haven't gotten around to it.

So in the end i had nothing else to vote for and just voted for three episodes of the Expanse. Hopefully one of them makes it on!

On that note, i would definitely support an amendment that when tabulating semifinal votes in this category a separate tally is kept for each series, with one point for each person who nominates an episode from it. (Not for each episode each person nominates, because then hardcore fans would just fill their ballot completely with different episodes from a single show.) Then if the series makes it to the finals the single episode with the most semifinal votes is chosen to represent it.

Best Series:
- Raksura; Martha Wells; The Edge of Worlds
- Pillars of Reality; Jack Campbell; Wrath of the Great Guilds
- October Daye; Seanan McGuire; Once Broken Faith
- Vorkosigan Saga; Lois McMaster Bujold; Gentleman Jole and the Red
- Temeraire; Naomi Novik; League of Dragons

And finally, one of the toughest categories.

Each year the WorldCon hosts have the opportunity to add one special category to the Hugos. Sometimes those categories are a hit and go on to become regular categories, and sometimes they just fade away.

This year Helsinki is trying out "Best Series." I love the idea of this category, but the result is a bit of a mess. They did their best to try to limit the number of nominees, in particular by requiring that the series have an eligible work come out within the last year, but it's still a bit of a mess. A glorious mess, <a href="">but a mess.</a>

My inner-teenager reaaaaally wanted to nominate Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series. I also considered Brand Sanderson, Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman, The Expanse, Marko Kloos, David Weber, "Mira Grant", Gail Carriger, Diane Duane, and the other Jack Campbell series. And probably others that i've forgotten now.

But i love the Raksura series! (Were-dragons with a matrilineal society in a well developed and very interesting fantasy world!)

And i love the Pillars of Reality books (Conceptually a bit like Pern, except with magic instead of dragons, and instead of the external threat of Thread the internal threat of the people who had the technology or magic deciding that they ought to be in charge. Also it set out a "standard" epic conflict in the plot and resolved the whole thing in just six books all released within two years!)

And i love the October Daye series (Urban Faerie Fantasy, with lots of focus on actual faerie mythology.)

And i love the Temerarie books (cough even though i still need to read the last one.)(Napoleonic war with aerial dragon combat.)

And finally, i love the Vorkosigan series. (cough especially the middle books.)(Liberal space opera/military SF/intrigue/"murder" mystery/romantic comedy) This is almost certainly the last chance for the series to get an award (the last several books hadn't been bad, but they've definitely been off-peak.)

So there you have it, the stuff i really think people should have read/watched/whatever over the last year!
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tap tap tap Is this thing on?

So for those who don't follow me on twitter, yes i still exist! (For those who do follow me on twitter, sorry for spamming you with retweets!)

Since there's been a bunch of stuff going on lately that cannot be expressed adequately in 140 character chunks, i thought i might actually try reviving this thing again!

I'm not going to try and stuff everything in one post, but in short order, we went on a geeky cruise, my cat tried to kill me (probably because i was going on a geeky cruise,) I voted for a bunch of SF/Fantasy stuff for the Hugo Awards, and also a bunch of AMVs for the Viewer's Choice awards, but it was kind of a rush job because the week before the votes were due i was going on a geeky cruise.

So no cruise is done, voting is done, and cat is (mostly) not trying to kill me, so i've got time to talk about it all!

Also, i need to digest the Russian-themed New User Agreement on LJ. Not sure entirely what i want to do/not do about it, except i think i'll finally try to make an effort to cross-post everything to DreamWidth as well as G+ =P

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Why You Should Vote

This CGP Grey video on the politics of power addresses it partway through (about 7:00 - 8:00).

This Cracked video on myths about voting hits it on the first item.


Politicians give rewards based on how much you can help them. This means that in Democracies they give (some) rewards to voters. (This is not a bug of Democracy, it's a feature.)

The rewards are related to the number/percentage of votes in a demographic but the relation is not a strictly linear one.

Why was not cutting Social Security/Medicare the one big thing that Trump and Clinton agreed on at the debates? (Even if they didn't agree on how they'd pay for them.) Because old people vote more than other demographics.

If you want your concerns addressed by politicians then you need to vote. In this context it doesn't matter who you vote for. It doesn't matter if the person you voted for wins or loses, and it doesn't matter if you're just the Nth "unneeded" vote for someone who was already going to win in a landslide.

After the election both sides will be looking at the turnout, and they'll base their policy decisions at least partly on those numbers.

If young people started voting in the same numbers as old people then for the next four years both sides would find reasons to start supporting things that matter to young people the same way they support Social Security and Medicare.

Finally, here's a "reward" for making it to the end!

The Epic Rap Battle Trump vs Clinton video! (Just in case you didn't already see the link i posted on Twitter =)

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We went to Anime Expo last weekend, and had a great time!

Unfortunately i don't have a ton of pictures, because despite (or perhaps because of ;) a ton of help i wasn't able to find a new camera in time beforehand. (Hopefully i can post some more details about that process later.)

So i've got some pictures with the crappy camera on my phone, and some more pictures with the less crappy camera on Avalyn's phone, which i need to get copies of. Along with some individual pictures we also went to cosplay gatherings for Steven Universe (because we know someone who cosplays that, though sadly she didn't make it to the gathering) and the Final Fantasy gathering (although i ended up in a kind of crappy spot for taking pictures.) Hopefully at some point i'll do the copying from Avalyn's phone and organize it all and share some of the better ones.

The AMV Contest was decent, and i promise i'll have a full post about that fairly soon! There were several good videos, but i'd already seen two of the best of them as part of the VCAs. And sadly because of that i didn't encounter any entirely new songs that i got addicted to.

The Masquerade was also decent. There were a number of decent skits, a number of so-so things, one major production failure, and zero marriage proposals. The intermission consisted of a singer that i didn't recognize who did the themes for... i think Air and Clanad and some other stuff? And the second half of the intermissions was a performance by the Dance Corp, which was pretty good but once again did not quite rise to the spectacle of their first performance two years ago. It's possible i suppose that the issue is nostalgic rose coloured glasses, but it really seems like they've started focusing more on the story of their skits than on the dance choreography, and it seems like they might have fewer people than they did that first year.

We checked out the arcade area and found that the Dance Maniax 2nd Mix machine was back after a hiatus last year. Sadly i only had time for about four games over a period of two days and was busy pretty much the entire rest of the time. I really miss having an arcade with a Dance Maniax machine nearby. (Come to think of it, that is one thing that might convince me to try out VR, though i doubt there's anyone interested in porting Dance Maniax over =)

We bought a moderate amount of art in the Artist Alley. Specifically several prints from an artist that redesigned characters as kitties, one each for Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Fullmetal Alchemist, and Super Smash Bros, a small print of some cute Chocobos, a steampunk Totoro and steampunk Catbus, and a FF7 Chocobo Racing print that i saw on Day 1 and then had to go through the entire Artist Alley twice to find again =P

We attempted to buy some new t-shirts but not until day 4, at which point they were running out of sizes. At each booth we could find a pair of shirts we wanted to get, but in each case they either didn't have my size, didn't have Avalyn's size, or both =P We've got business cards and website URLs and such, so we could try ordering them online, but it's not quite the same.

We did see a little bit of new anime, Sunday morning we went to see the first three episodes of "Food Wars". We were running a little late, but the room was running even later so we actually caught the last 5 or 10 minutes of "The Boy and the Beast" as well, but since the last 5-10 minutes of a movie doesn't do you a lot of good i just intently studied my 3DS until it was over. (Oh yes, i got well over 100 hits on my 3DS of course.) Food Wars turned out to be pretty much what we were expecting. There was a lot of food and a lot of cooking and a LOOOOOOOT of fan service. Like, ridiculous levels of fan service given the subject. However the AMV i shared from the VCAs a couple months ago had already led us to expect that. And somehow the fact that it was in such a silly situation and was not taken at all seriously made it seem less problematic than the same type of stuff would have seemed in other circumstances. (cough cough Kill la Kill.)

So aside from all that we spent a lot of time in the AMV room. We saw a lot of videos in a lot of different panels. There were a number that i intend to look up again but nothing that really blew my mind this year. The 25 Years of AMVs intro video was pretty awesome, and some of the videos in that panel were pretty great, but it was rather late at night and i started drifting off around the middle of it.

25 Years of Anime and Music | Anime Expo 2016:

Audience reaction:

The 2006 AMV Contest Replay had some good stuff, including one of my favorite AMVs ever (Between the Truth and the Lies), Rider4z's first convention showing (Fight For Life), and Wedding Rings. Gotta say though, looking ahead, the AX 2007 AMV Reshow is going to be EPIC! The Comedy panel was good as usual, the "Best of the Non-Finalists" was very hit or miss, also as usual. We weren't able to make it to the Rhythem panel (among many others) which makes me kind of sad. Along with comedy and "Best of the Non-Finalists" that would have been my best chance to find something new and amazing.

The best panel of the entire convention was probably the final AMV one, the "Sing, Clap, and Stomp Along" panel. Avalyn suggested they ought to do it at the beginning of the con to get everyone psyched up. Or maybe do it at the beginning and the end. Or maybe the beginning and the end and in the middle. Or... :)

We did stop by the Dance at one point, but were only able to stay for about 20-30 minutes, because we needed to go get in line for an AMV room panel. (The 25 Years one i believe.)

So between a light sunburn on my arms (i did remember to wear a hat while outside,) walking all over the place, a little bit of dancing, four games of Dance Maniax, and a lot of enthusiastic singing and clapping, i was sore pretty much everywhere at the end of things, which is not at all a bad way to end a con :)

All in all though it seems like this is really just a post to say that i'm hoping to post some more stuff later =P

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Many years ago (around 2003 or 2004 i think?) i bought a new camera just before Anime Expo so i could take decent pictures. After a minimal amount of review i decided to go with the Canon PowerShot A610.

I don't know if it was the best choice or not, but it served me well for many years. Then 3-4 years ago it started having trouble moving the lens in and out. Which might have been okay if it just meant no zooming, but it also meant that when you turned the camera on it had trouble moving the lens out from compact mode. Then the LCD screen got scrambled and would only work if i flipped it out, as opposed to flipped over and folded back. (Something was wrong with the rotation mechanism, when it got to the point where it would have had to flip the image upside down it just bugged out.)

It was still usable as long as i was willing to have the LCD flipped out or just use the viewfinder, but the problem with the lens movement gradually got worse. It never quite got to the point where i couldn't get it to work at all, because before that point the batteries inside exploded. In fact the leaking acid cause some kind of reaction strong enough to break the shutter button mechanism off of the main camera body (since it's located directly above one of the batteries.)

So some people these days say that all you really need is a camera phone, and after living a couple years on that philosophy it's not working out so well. I don't need a great camera (as evidenced by my previous choice) but the phone on my camera really sucks. You can see noticeable differences in quality between my unlocked T-Mobile Moto X phone and Avalyn's Verizon Moto X phone. The zoom in particular is horrible and grainy. I'd be kind of surprised if there was that much difference in the camera drivers between them, so i suspect there may be some kind of defect with mine.

So my phone is sorta okay if i need to snap a quick non-zoomed photo of something to post on twitter, but not so good for capturing good photos of events i'm at. Like Anime Expo. Which happens next week.

So here i am again, considering buying a camera at the semi-last minute, and i'm wondering if anyone has any advice.

I don't really want to spend more a couple hundred on it. I generally only use the zoom and brightness settings. The old camera had a couple automatic modes (indoors, outdoors, landscape, etc) but even with those i had a tough time telling which would actually be better in what situation. So moderately priced and simple is probably best. I think i would like a little better zoom though. I think the old one was limited to 8x, which wasn't that great if i was sitting in the middle or rear of a concert. And of course as previously mentioned the zoom on my camera phone is practically useless.

Based on 5-10 minutes perusal of Consume Reports i'm leaning toward either the Canon PowerShot SX710 HS ($280-300, 30x optical zoom) and the Nikon Coolpix S7000 ($200-$280, 20x optical zoom.)

So do any of the people i know who do camera stuff have any opinions about either of those, or have something better to suggest?

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I've got this irrational(?) fear that if Brexit passes Trump will win in the fall.

Because if Brexit passes one of two things will happen:

1) The economy will go down. In the worst case scenario the initial seed of financial disruption from Brexit passing will trigger the China debt default chain and cause a total meltdown.

But whether it goes down a lot or little in response to which Trump will blame the Democrats for the economy sucking, which isn't fair but historically the party in office has always caught the flak for a bad economy regardless of the causes.

2) The economy will stay stable or improve.

In which case Trump will say "Hey look, Britain followed the lead of a bunch of fascist, racist, idiots [okay, probably not in those exact words] and it worked out for them, so it will work out for us too!"

Come on UK, you knew how to deal with these types under much more trying circumstances when they were living on the other side of the Channel. Don't give up just because they've become a homegrown threat! You were strong then, you can be strong now!

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First: I wrote the rest of this post down on Friday and meant to post it this week. But then i checked YouTube today and discovered that the new season of Epic Rap Battles of History just started, and the first video is George R R Martin vs J R R Tolkien. And it is awesome. Enjoy!

Second: If you remembered to come back from the video, this is my interpretation of the Middle-Earth creation mythos[1]:

Eru, to the other gods[2]: "Despite some initial unpleasantness we've got the world mostly worked out now and filled with plants and beasts[3], so we should get down to the important stuff, the sentient races. Since I'm the firstest and bestest of the gods i shall create the Elves, and they shall be the Firstborn."

Aule: Uh, when exactly were you planning on doing that?

Eru: I don't know, I figured I'd get around to it sooner or later. Maybe another couple Ages. No rush.

Aule: So, uh, i already kinda created the Dwarves.

Eru: Damn it! I'm first! I get the Firstborn! I'm not going to grant your Dwarves sentience until after I've created my Elves! Go stick them in the freezer for now or something!

Manwe: Would this be a bad time to mention the Eagles I made? Cause i thought it would be cool if there were giant sentient Eagles.

Eru: Eagles aren't real people! They don't count! In fact maybe I won't even give them souls, that'll show you! But stick them in cold storage for now just to be safe and we'll figure it out later. AFTER the Elves are created!

Yavanna: So about that... I can already tell Aule's Dwarves are going to be trouble, so I made Ents to protect the forests from them.

Eru: What is wrong with you people?!? You can't just go around creating races willy-nilly! That's my job!

Yavanna: It's Aule's fault for creating such a stupid race first!

Eru: Fine! Whatever! The Ents are going into cold storage with all the rest! They can just be trees for now, and the Elves, the FIRSTBORN, will wake them up AFTER I'VE CREATED THEM FIRST! Because THEY'RE THE FIRSTBORN!

[Tom Bombadil wanders in from somewhere]

Bombadil: They're first? But what about me? I'm here, I'm Eldest, I've already seen the first raindrop and the first acorn, so technically...

Eru: ARRAAARRRAAAGHHHHHHH!!!!!! *retroactively smites Tom Bombadil from existence

And that children is why Tom Bombadil did not appear in the Lord of the Rings movies.

1: The bit about the Dwarves and the Elves seems to be generally accurate. Information about the nature and origin of Ents is vauge, the information about the Eagles is even vaguer, and the information about Tom Bombadil is vaguest.

2: Ainu, whatever.[4]

3: "Years of the Lamps" (

4: I'm sure steuard will correct me on all the whatevers.

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Symptoms i have experienced over the last week and a bit:

Stiff and sore neck
Nausea and light vomiting (1 night only, maybe mild case of food poisoning?)
Sore throat (scratch)
Sore throat (unable to swallow)
Goopy throat
Stuffy nose
Goopy nose
Swollen eyelids
Pink eyes
Goopy eyes

Not all of these symptoms have been happening at the same time though, so it's hard to say which, if any, are linked by a common cause and which are entirely independent =P Do i have a single sickness? Or do i have several different co-dependently opportunistic sicknesses? I don't know! The stiff/sore neck has been the only one that's been consistent the whole time, and what started out the whole mess. It was pretty bad at first. It's gotten a lot better since then, but i still feel twinges if i turn my head too much.

The weird thing is that everything below my neck feels just fine. So i don't feel like i'm sick so much as i just have a bunch of problems with me head.

If i'm actually sick with something i wish i'd just get all of it at once, get really sick, and just get it over with =P

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