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I see a lot of misdirected anger towards Apple and their aggressive use of patents. They're playing the patent system and they're playing to win. Good on them.

Your anger should be directed to the terribly broken patent system that undermines its original purpose and actually stifles innovation and competition.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. We need patent reform.
Casey Heater's profile photoRick Hultmark's profile photoNaga Appani's profile photoDavid LaCivita's profile photo
I'm one of those haters but I have to agree with you, it's the patent systems issue.
But the player is abusing a broken system.  So yeah, I'll keep hating both until the player actually tries to use its millions of lobbying money to actually fix the problem.
Oh we all know the patent system is horribly broken, +Koushik Dutta, but the problem is Apple is violating a quiet sort of gentlething's agreement not to start a total patent Armageddon.

Apple's patent is unusually weak, and should never have been granted. But knowing that, they still choose to move forward on it to the detriment of consumers. 

Do you know how crazy it would be if IBM decided to do this?
Agreed. But first we need government reform. These fools are just idiots.
It's going to be very hard to chance the patent system because now, some companies are going to lobby against it and others are going to lobby in favour of it... But the companies that are going to lobby against it are going to be very few... The political system in the US is broken!
I agree to some extent, but just because the system is broken it doesn't mean you have to be a dick exploiting it.
Since I work in a firm that makes IP Managment software, I always hear that especially software patents suck a lot. The lawyers basically have no idea about software and decide wrong in a lot of cases. But you still can count me to the haters
+Koushik Dutta I don't see why we should cut Apple any slack just because we have a disfunctional system. Do both, fix the system and get Apple to stop
Yes the patent system is broken, but that doesnt mean they have to flat out abuse it.
Business decisions informed only by "winning" in the short term ignore longer term and societal implications and responsibilities. Citing Cobra Kai ethics is only going to work at a self-deluding libertarian convention.

Companies like Apple succeed when they innovate, make great products, and deliver them before the competition. And in their success, we get better tech faster.

Are you honestly going to argue these courtroom antics are benefitting you? Play to win for your own team, for once.
There is a distinct difference between the law and the spirit of the law.  And Apple doesn't seem to understand the distinction.
This is like blaming a woman for being raped because she wasnt able to stop it. I disagree.
I agree that the patent system should be the main focus of the anger, but I think those that use it the way it's not supposed to be used, should pay the consequences of their acts too.
All is fair so long as you play within the rules. It's why they have a shot clock in basketball. Prevent one team from just holding the ball. It's a corny way to win but the whole point is to win. If you don't like it change the rule, until then play along or continue losing.
+Koushik Dutta my anger is directed at both Apple and the patent system. Yes the patent system is corrupted, but Apple sees nothing wrong with using these vague and unfair patents in their favor. Ill keep saying it #boycottapple
+Koushik Dutta "don't hate the player, hate the game" is all well and good if Apple hadn't declared "nuclear war" on Android. Picking on supply chain and OEM partners is great if your purpose is to destroy the competition instead of just competing with them.

I think the game is broken too but there is still integrity and accountability... or there should be.

Apple will or will not win the battle for consumer dollars by creating better products, not abusing a broken system.
I hear the argument to change the patent system.  My question to those who pose that argument is what it the correct path to change that will not be dramatic and crippling to the smaller companies?
Like everything else before it, people will ignore it until someone takes it too far.. If Apple is going to be that company everyone hates in order to get reform - so be it... Apple wants to act like their products are revolutionary, but then they don't want to compete head to head - instead they want to block competition with a broken patent system.  It wouldn't be bad if money was all they were after for use of the patents, but to block the sale of devices is abuse of the system.
No I can hate both. 1 Apple built there business on taking others Idea's and making them better. Good for them. Now they are using the money they have to influence those judges. THAT'S WRONG!!! The galaxy Tab I agree with Samsung was stupid, but the nexus that is just a influenced judge. I agree with the  #boycottapple but I don't think it will work.
There is this funny movement in America that sort of came to a head with the election of Barack Obama that asks–perhaps even demands–that America be more than what it was. 

We had a society that basically too this "look I am not doing anything illegal" brand of morality to its extreme. And look at where it has gotten us. Gamed systems, a thrashed environment, stifled innovation, artists being exploited by art clearinghouses, explosive collapse of hedged industries and a generally dissatisfied population.

Saying, "This is the law, change it if you don't like it, Scrub." It's just not what people want. It doesn't lead to good outcomes. Don't cite it as justification for what Apple is doing. It's unfair to their hardworking and probably ethical engineers and not a justification for these games.
I agree that it is a systemic problem, but I think it is disingenuous on Apple's part to pretend that they never "copy" from others. I think most of the patents Apple has are very vague and shouldn't have been granted in the first place. It may be a systemic problem, but it doesn't make it right and some of the anger should be directed towards Apple because they are stifling competition. At the end of the day, what Apple is doing is completely antithetical to consumer good.
+Dave Fayram Noble, but even the most well intentioned will get crushed if they don't play to their fullest. And well intentions are worthless if you can't execute.
+Dave Fayram For example, Bill Gates did quite a bit of shady stuff to become one of the richest men in the world. Because he played to win, he can now be the greatest philanthropist in the history of man.

In 50 years he won't be remembered for Microsoft. He'll be remembered for the Gates Foundation.
That's why we don't live in a pure and unguided economy, +Koushik Dutta , it leads to terrible outcomes.
Good on them

Sorry, no. Can't agree to that the slightest. It's good for their pockets, but not for the consumer and not for the society. Playing to win is one thing, playing to win just for yourself, irrespective of the effect it has on others is totally unacceptable.
+Koushik Dutta Yes, and that's yet another systematic problem… I don't think it's good that people actually are able (or allowed…) to get THAT rich. If he's that rich, it means a lot of other people are (at least somewhat) poorer.
Am I wrong or should HP sue every one for having a phone with a touch screen.
Google needs to take the Motorola patents and slam Apple hard with them to get Apple off its back. The patent system is broken, yes, but when companies play dirty, you need to fight back until it's fixed.
The patent system is fine. The problem is the application of the existing rules in an interpretive manner.
Like you are going to change anything... your comment is as pointless as apple's doing. 
Yes I will hate the player. Just like in sports, a player can flop and get a the referee to make a bad call. But as spectators we can all see what the player did. I have no respect for that kind of behavior, be it in sports or in business. True that the game/patent system is broken, but take advantage of it and you will not have my respect or business.
We really should be looking for Patent reform!
With that in mind shouldn't Google be protecting its partners a little better? Seems like Android should have an extensive patent portfolio between google and all involved partners to combat things like this.
Thanks for not just hating on Apple for the patent like most people do right now. I am my self a full on android-geek with a Galaxy Nexus but still own a MacBook Air and running (totally) OSX, Windows  and Ubuntu. I'm not gonna hate a tech-company for doing business, since that's it all is really about. And there's no more ethics or moral in business then there are in the law.

Your post on this was the best I've seen on this matter. 
Some players take the piss out of the game. Both are in the wrong on this one.
+Koushik Dutta don't be stupid with your "scrub" talk, patents are "patently" broken, and the one with more money wins. Read that article again. Even he agrees that you shouldn't play broken characters (in this case that would be broken laws).
Koushik.. bottom line is when we stop buying Apple‘s products they will (edit:may) be forced to re- consider their actions. Sure it may only be a few thousand of my dollars in devices and apps over a long period but whether Apple or their developers give a shit won't change the fact it already does and will continue to make me feel better. #boycottapple
If Google took the same approach, they would have sued Amazon over the Kindle Fire. Instead, they decided to come out with a superior product. I still prefer Apple over MS for OS, but the rest of this is straight bull. You don't see Apple trying to sue Nokia. Why? Because they're no threat to them. But now they see a superior opponent and start running to the courts with frivolous claims. All I got to say is #boycottapple
Google is probably waiting for a release date for the new iphone to take them to court for notification bar patent infringement. 
In terms of ethics, this argument can be reduced even further.  Isn't the system that created the patent system "play to win," with lobbies?  And the cultural system beyond that, too?

What we should be doing as armchair moral philosophers is considering what the end result of Apple's actions are, and determine if those are good or bad.

Certainly reducing the issue to the patent system helps us find the underlying problems, but I don't see a lot of people claiming that the patent system isn't partially at fault!

If you had a system that failed to punish a clearly wrong action, we can hate the system AND the entity that does the action. In fact, if you already agree that the system has it wrong there is nothing bad with being angry at Apple, because they should see it too!  Why set two different standards? 
Just because a system is broken doesn't mean it should be abused to the level Apple has been abusing it for this long. Now, I'm aware it's a business environment and their main purpose is to make profit. But even so, there should be certain grounds of ethics/morals, some basic guidelines which the company just doesn't cross. Their lack of such in itself, the proofs for it piling up more and more every day, I'd say, is more than enough reason for all the hatred to be directed their way. Not to mention how two-faced, hypocritical bastards they are when it comes to features/hardware and the "innovation" of those.
Just my $.02.
Maxx D
There's a difference between a game and real life. Real life has a human cost.

But let's pretend it is a game with no real human cost. Apple's "play" is distasteful. People don't tend to like bullies, and so Apple's "play" in the "game" causes them to lose favor. Public perception and opinion is part of the game, too, and the players who ignore that suffer the consequences.

So the anger at Apple isn't "misdirected" in the slightest. Taking advantage of a broken system is a crap thing to do, and people are calling them on it. Public opinion and reaction are not any less "valid" than any other part of the game.
But but but but... If I weren't ranting about Apple, I might have to turn my anger towards the far more broken and far more depressing United States political system!
Why can't I be disappointed at both? They aren't mutually exclusive you know. 
I absolutely agree the patent system needs reform and the game is broken.  

That said there is a reason the concept of sportsmanship exists on real-life fields and (admittedly to a much lesser extent) on virtual ones.  Taking advantage of a broken game is not skill, when you're using an exploit you can't know that you beat the other guy because you were better than him, it's easily possible that you never should have won but did by effectively cheating.

In this situation many of the patents Apple has been suing over are so blatantly broken that people who aren't even "practitioners of the art" can take one look at it and know it's ludicrous.  If there were a loophole in NFL rules that didn't specifically prevent a running-back from riding a dirtbike down the sideline with the ball do you think anyone would actually let them get away with that?
Just like I saw on another post, if Henry Ford used the same logic as Apple, he would have sued all other car manufacturers for using a steering wheel.

We should most definitely be hating the game first, but if the patent system was used the way it was intended and not abused by companies like Apple, the game would be just fine.

This can also be related to basketball. There is a foul system (patent system) in place so that if a player (company) stops another player (company) by means of contact, that's a foul (stealing). Too many and the player is out (of business). But there are players that clearly flop (call it stealing when they didn't invent it) to make the refs (courts) think he was fouled. People hate on the flopper because he's full of shit and a whiny little bitch. (Apple) But by your "hate the game" logic, we shouldn't be mad at the flopper because he's just playing the game. But then if everyone decided to be a flopper, there would be basketball courts of tall men just falling all over the place and then nobody would watch the game.

Nish R
I honestly think what consumers need is a reform of the system too, but when the heck is Google going to learn to patent their stuffs and protect it? Infringing patent is illegal and if Samsung did go that route, they deserve to pay, but it seems that Apple has the upper hand since they are always out there protecting their properties or making sure they eliminate competition.
I suspect that a lot of the anger is the result of all the blood sweat and tears that have gone into filling up the oceans of open source technology, upon which Apple floats their island of proprietary flotsam.

And so you have this long, rich history, not of protecting ideas, but of smart, visionary people working very hard to connect ideas. I can see why they would feel betrayed.
so, if weapons exist, we must blame them instead of the fucking crazy bastards commiting murders?
ehr... I don't agree...
In life one can always be a dick but try not to look surprised when people call you one.
+Peter Sinnott hit it right on the head.  Being an asshole isn't illegal.  Heck, sometimes it's clearly the advantageous course of action.  That said, people hate assholes, so don't be shocked when they don't like you if you are one.  Koush, you're right that our anger would be better directed at the broken system, but it doesn't mean we're wrong to be hating on Apple.  At worst, we're somewhat inefficient in our fury.
This Apple thing brings a even bigger problem into focus. Our tech companies hold enormous power and continue to grow. Its likely someday they will effectively outrank governments. What will protect us when many times the only thing that has prevented some pretty terrible things has been an honor code. 
Why can't I call apple a piece of crap for ruining choice? I'm hating both the player and the game. I'll never buy an apple product because of the way they play.
+Koushik Dutta Your post essentially says that Apple's actions are legal, and perhaps they are. However, if ethics mean nothing, you would see a more vicious fight from almost everyone, which is not happening. If people and/or companies are willing to throw ethics out the window, then what are they fighting for? Who has the most money? Power? I don't want to be part of the life that is only about money or power, and I am guessing this is true with most people.
Hate the bankers who take advantage of a broken system, but not Apple. Check.
Koush, what you're saying is tantamount to saying it's fine if someone were to, say, cut your hands off with a machete as long as they do the time for assault. You think that's alright? I mean, file for patent that gets granted but will be overturned on review years later, and using it in the meantime to your advantage, while legal, is still a douche move. There are violations to the play to win philosophy when it comes to this kind of stuff, if you're truly playing to win at all costs, you will cheat, lie, steal, do anything to win; and that's not all alright.
+James Barr Cheating and stealing is against the law. Lying, in court and to shareholders, is against the law. These are are against the rules.

I posit that the rules need to be changed.
So what do you have to say about Apple's lawyers Photoshopping pics of the Samsung tablets in that German court? I mean...yes, some of the anger toward Apple may be misdirected, but they are playing dirty, too. No way to skirt around that.
For the record, I'm absolutely furious at how technology patents are being used, and can be used, in this country. There shouldn't even BE technology-related patents, to be honest.
Since this patent war was named "thermonuclear", I couldn't get this bad (over-dramatic and over-reaching) analogy out of my mind: nuclear weapons are bad, so try to eradicate it from world and till then don't complain (or get angry) if any country uses it offensively.
Apple is being evil and running scared. I've had my fill of the BS!
Nobody cares that the patent system is corrupt in this case.  The point is that everyone knows its corrupt and Apple are the only company manipulating it.  It's not good on them, its morally wrong for them to do.  Other companies don't so they shouldn't either.

No, they're not doing anything technically wrong, but its not something to be proud of or use.
Both the player and the game are wrong.
"Don't hate the player, hate the game. We need patent reform."

Why can't I hate both?  The patent system is undeniably and irreparably broken, yes.  Apple is using that system to their advantage, yes.  But what I cannot fathom is why their approach has to be the defacto way?  Microsoft pursued litigation with the goal of making money from infringed bits; Apple simply wants to remove competition.

I'm not a business student, I don't study markets and the like; but if Apple is confident in their products and their ability to design, produce, and market a superior offering, why do their actions seem to telegraph a fear of competition?  If they were comfortable in their space, surely it is more profitable to seek licencing deals wrongfully (not on their part) patented things?

Or, more likely, none of it matters in the grand scheme.  Apple is making pure bank off an extensive user-base that will in no way be moved by any of this nuclear litigation approach (or at least not in any meaningful way to their bottom line).  Apple is doing what they think they have to do to succeed, yes.  Apple is not doing anything illegal, yes.

I still hate (but not quite as strongly as the word implies) both player and game in this situation.
If all players behaved as badly as Apple did, then "don't hate the player, hate the game" would be appropriate.  The problem is that there are many players in the game who play in a responsible and ethical manner and still achieve success - this means I cannot respect anyone who feels that they have to abuse the rules of the game to achieve success.

Apple's policy is sue first, negotiate when a judge bitches you out.  Most responsible companies negotiated/license first with reasonable terms, sue later.  (As to the questionable "reasonableness" of Samsung's countersuits - you'll notice that they're being perfectly reasonable in terms of licensing with those entities that are reasonable with them.)
If it were up to Apple, they'd be the only smartphone in the world. Apple doesnt like competition so they are suing to force competition out. Litigating to a monopoly should be illegal.
Does Apple think that because they got the GN banned I'm going to buy an iPhone with open arms? They are hurting potential future iPhone owners. I will not ever buy another Apple product because of this. Keeping me from the tech I want is a good way to get me to not ever buy apple products again.
Misdirected my ass. Apple deserves to get spanked for abusing a broken system. There is no difference between their abuse and finding a legal loophole to commit murder, it is all wrong in either way and they should be ashamed for doing it. Can't Apple find legitimate ways to con people into using their over priced shit? Obviously not.
It seems as though it's hard to maintain and prevent copy right infringement from occurring.
It seems as though it's hard to maintain and prevent copy right infringement from occurring.
+Koushik Dutta "For obvious reasons I'm never getting an Apple product. Apple fans defend the company by saying they're just taking advantage of a broken patent system, but I don't see how abusing a system to take out the competition makes Apple innocent here. Put your money, $128 Billion to be exact, where your mouth is Apple and actually lobby for patent reform, Google has ;)" - from +Joseph Lee. And I agree wholeheartedly
Maxx D
+Todd Foster Actually, I have suddenly become very interested in the Galaxy Nexus. I have an original (release day) iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS (and 4th gen iPod Touch). I skipped the iPhone 4 with all the antennagate stuff and ended up buying a Samsung Captivate. I was waiting for the iPhone 5, but I think I may try to get my hands on a Galaxy Nexus tomorrow. My Captivate was sort of an experiment, but at this point, I'm switching for good.
I agree with a lot of the people on here. Just because a system is broken and is vulnerable enough to be taken advantage of doesn't mean you have to take advantage of it. And the fact they are pushing for complete ban of products instead of licensing is what makes me upset with Apple. That is the anti-competitive aspect of what they are doing in my opinion.

1 question that keeps coming to my mind in this whole situation is when does a software feature become FRAND? For example, Motorola has serious patents about real technology to make a phone work but that gets thrown out because it is considered FRAND yet a Apple gets a patent for swipe to unlock which just about every phone utilizes (arguably phones before the iPhone) and that is not considered FRAND because it isn't a standard. So if I am a company and develop a technology that a standards organization wants to become a standard, why should I allow that when it will cripple my ability to back off an aggressive competitor? Anyone have actual experience with this type of situation to shine some light on this.
Maxx D
+Scott Adams I fully "switched" to Mac in 2002 (before it was cool.) iBook G3, TiBook G4, PowerBook G4 (x2), MacBook Pro (x3), PowerMac Dual G4, PowerMac G5, Mac Pro 8x, iPhones, iPods, iPads, Airport Express/Extreme. I went to every OS X launch, I have all the t-shirts, dog tags and other schwag to show for it. I used to hang out at the Apple store and answer customer questions when the Genius Bar gave up (they tried to hire me twice). I was the quintessential Mac fanboy, although I didn't like the vulgarity and insults way that some fanboys treat others. I always recognized that people have preferences and choices, and I do in my heart love all tech no matter what company it came from. I was just happy to just enjoy everything Apple was doing and was happy help/share with others.

I assisted and encouraged dozens of family, friends, and people I just met at the Apple store get onto Apple products and ease their migration.

For me, that's over now. It was a long time coming as Apple has been annoying me in a lot of little ways lately, this was just the final straw the broke my back as they say. The smashing of iOS into OS X and the rampant skeuomorphs and oversimplification is new since they introduced the iPhone. Even if they hadn't done this, they are getting less and less interesting, and perhaps that's why they aren't confident to compete in the open market and are resorting to litigation. I still recognize and acknowledge their contributions, but I'm not going to be a part of it anymore, and I'm going to be helping people switch off Apple products now.

It's so sad because they really had the capability to win on execution. It's a shame that they decided to "go thermonuclear"
+Maxx Daymon I have a captivate too. Stock it sucked,but running cm9 it is better than my evo. And so far very stable.
Koush... While agree with you that it's the patent system that needs fixing and while I agree that Apple's within it's legal rights I argue that its actions are ethically objectionable and THAT is why I have anger toward Apple. I do not consider this anger to be misdirected in the least.

Because Apple chooses to use things it finds in the wild as building blocks for its operating systems and software one would only assume that Apple would have no problem with turnabout being fair play. Alas, Apple functions on a "do as I say, not as I do" model where what's good for Apple's goose is NOT good for anyone else's gander.

"Good artists copy, great artists steal and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas" Steve Jobs
Maxx D
+Mick Moses Oh yeah it was awful as shipped from AT&T. I ran Cognition for a while, then CyanogenMod 7, and now CyanogenMod 9. All three were excellent. CM9 is particularly nice, and makes the iPhone feel old and dowdy.
Just because you can, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
+Tyler Presley Right.  Which is why Samsung shouldn't have violated Apple's patents, just cause they could.
Apple hasn't ever infringed on anything? Copyright infringement (like this) is: If it's got a bill, webbed feet, feathers, and Apple's got a patent for a duck they'll sue anyone for creating a goose.
BTW, what was the last thing Apple released on Google Play? Who has the elitist attitude? Who abandons their user base? Who has the attitude that you'll do it my way, or move the F' out?
Nope, not misdirected. They suck. The sooner they go out of business, the better.
+Koushik Dutta 

I see a lot of misdirected anger towards us and our aggressive words against Apple. We're playing the capitalist system and we're playing to boycott. Good on us.

Your anger should be directed to the terrible concept of this post that undermines the spirit of conversation and actually stifles your followers and their opinions.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. We need Koushik reform.
I only partially agree. The game is broken, but that doesn't mean that players have to act like fuckwads until it's fixed. The anger is appropriately directed at both the player and the game.
Oh! Figured it out!  Everyone on here is talking like it's Android vs. Apple, and they aren't wrong, but it's not the sports analogy everyone keeps making, or the 1v1 game analogy Koush made.

It's as though they are competing in the Olympics in, say, figure skating.  Apple does it's routine, Samsung (in this case) does it's routine and has a move very similar to Apple's, but overall not super significant.  Double axel, maybe.  At this point, the judges (that's us, we vote on theses companies with our money) examine the situation.  But wait!  Apple has grabbed a rule book, and rather than letting the judges decide themselves or informing them politely that Samsung may have broken a rule, Apple decides to beat the shit out of Samsung with the book.

Now the judges can make any decision they want.  Koush can say the rule book is the problem here, but that doesn't excuse Apple's behavior, and we still can vote any way we damn well please. 
I disagree. Why shouldn't we be mad at them for taking advantage of it?? Should I kill and blame the system for making it legal? No!
Seriously?  "Don't hate the player, hate the game."??

This sort of twisted thinking is what turns ethics into all shades of grey.  Just because something has not been explicitly codified as wrong does not allow us to tweak the shade just a little grayer.

Giving a company kudos for taking advantage of the system weakens society's ethics outlook.  It now becomes "right" if we are smart enough to do it to the "other guy" first.

Apple could take the high road and maintain an ethical business practice.  They do not have to resort to these tactics.
It just kills me that because Cr-Apple stole first (linux), and gained a pile of cash, now they can just beat people down with their lawyers
it should be changed the way how a patent is filed, and the way it is accepted.. There should again be a functionally and technically sound core committee to review the genuine purpose and the way it is designed....

The way Apple patents its technologies is a way to kill the innovation.. If there is a patent for "Slide to Unlock", how fare is that?? Is it a real big innovation or deal breaker to ban a mobile phone like Galaxy Nexus?? How accurate to consider it under a patent troll? Motorola and Nokia both have innovated a lot including hardware and software technologies.. If they would have wanted to patent what they did to the  mobile phone industry, could we have seen other OEMs like Samsung, Apple, Balckberry etc..??

I wsih, Apple will have broken wings soon....
 did a Google search on "+Koushik Dutta apple innovation" and here's what was at the top:

Koushik Dutta (Koush) - Google+

by Koushik Dutta - in 32,734 Google+ circles - More by Koushik Dutta
Apple's being a tool, and they deserve the ire they're receiving. ... system that undermines its original purpose and actually stifles innovation and competition.

I am having a hard time finding the whole quote but I wonder what he was talking about then?
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