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We must do everything we can to overturn this disastrous Citizens United decision.
Charlie Harris's profile photoKeith Childers's profile photoMihaela Carp's profile photoMark Allen's profile photo
They already own the Govt and have for the last 100+ years...
If you don't like how the wealthy spend your money, stop giving it to them.
While our country is still a democracy, we the people need to overturn the horrible Citizens United decision. Otherwise we may lose our democracy.
+Joel Carlson Our country is a Constitutional Republic - not a democracy.

Also, great job on the +1 of your own post. Lends yourself a lot of credibility. :)
I want to thank you from my heart, Mr Sanders, for being our voice in Washington. We need a hundred more just like you in the House and Senate...then maybe something would be done to stop these thieves.
+Rick Lell said We need a hundred more just like you in the House and Senate

What is Sanders's position on human cloning?
Democracy and constitutional republic are not mutually exclusive. Doesn't do wonders for your credibility either to claim a nation that elects its representation isn't allowed to call itself a democracy when that's the definition of the term.
+Mark Noble I tried to stop giving it to the wealthy in Washington DC, but then men with guns showed up to my house.
+Keith Childers I've seen how the system works. Nothing democratic about it. Your candidates are selected for you, the media presents those two as a false dichotomy. The outcome is rigged. Oh, and the masses somehow figure out a way around this, it goes to court and the intended outcome is applied anyway.

You're only going to be able to work toward democracy when you realize it's not what we have.
+Mark Noble ...a hundred or two more with the balls to stand and fight these thieves and push the laws through to end this insanity.
+Mark Noble You neoliberal goons miss the entire point: when corporations pay off lawmakers and garner influence in government, the effect is ultimately anti-competitive. Without market transparency, how can consumers make an educated decision?
Reagan-Rand (bless their holy names) would frown at your lack of foresight. :-)
+Rick Lell So what is the proposed fix to the Citizens United ruling that Bernie is getting behind?
+Rick Lell end the insanity of regulating, adding more regulations? good luck with that.
+Mark Noble Understand what you mean, but playing with semantics that distort and confuse does not help anyone.   A "constitutional republic" is a form of a democracy and accurate when called so.  

To your other point, I agree.  Our democratic values are being corrupted (or simply way beyond corrupted) and we need to work with senators and lawmakers like Bernie to save our Union. 
+Marcel Casella no, enforcing the laws that are on the books now...there are laws against thievery, applying even at the highest levels of banking and business, correct?
+Mark Noble Looks like you cherry pick and choose which comments you can handle. Typical troll behavior. You're clearly not interested in engaging in a discussion but to spam the board with inflammatory one-liners.
+Rick Lell It's not thievery when you walk up and hand over your money to them.
+John Karl Nuttall your realize it's because of Govt in the first place we have these Corporations....just saying the root of all the evil is not corporations but Govt itself.

+Charles Moreland Mr. Sanders would hardly be someone that I would think anyone who wants to save our Republic could support, since Socialist Democracy is in no way keeping with the ideals of self ownership and personal freedoms.
+Mark Noble stated, enforce the ethics laws in business, banking, and politics.
+Mark Noble sweetheart, you don't get to redefine a word in the dictionary because you don't like the people in charge. Some time ago we had a big to-do called the Civil War over whether the republic was going to be a confederation of sovereign states or a central democracy. You may not have gotten the memo yet, but your side lost that war and the constitution was amended. So, in your continued insistence that America is not a democracy you are in fact arguing against the very constitutional republic you profess to be defending.

Why do you hate America and the constitution, Mark? Was it something we did to you as a child?

P.S. I agree with you, the two-party system is borked and choice has been taken away. But I disagree that this is a result of totalitarian bent or a scary government boogeyman... rather it's a symptom of the  unfettered corporatist corruption your ilk thrives on advancing through astroturf, Koch-funded activism such as that which produced Citizens United, not to mention your carefully placed paid operatives in black robes on the Supreme Court.
+Anthony Evangelista I really recommend you take a history class, 'Corporations' have been a lot longer than you think.  

With that said..   I get your point, but...  One is not evil and the other good.  No, to your point they are both required.  It's the entanglement of the two that is the problem.  When the two work toward the same goal (as now and as in the gilded age), the people become a second thought.  Both government and corporations need to function to enhance society, not corrupt and destroy it.
The thing is, there are thieves and also wealthy people who suppossedly own the "government". Why does that happen? because we (and i´m not american, but from another country suffering the same disease), have approved laws that allow some people have privileges over others.
Then we see how bad we have done, and we blame the individuals so we propose even more laws giving even more people more privileges over others. 
We build a privilege system that is now swallowing us all, and we still blame individuals for it, so we want someone even bigger to stop them so we make more laws.
We ourselves make the government extremely alluring for people who want to make easy money.
Stop making it bigger...
+Rick Lell said stated, enforce the ethics laws in business, banking, and politics.

How can you hope to do that without fully-informed jurors?
ROFL "War of Northern Aggression". Because the North totally fired the first shot, right?

There were a series of amendments following the war which removed all ambiguity regarding state sovereignty and the application of due process, universal suffrage and equal protection to all, the 14th amendment being the most profound. If you don't know this stuff, then you have no basis to hold such strong opinions on the proper state of American governance per constitutional law.
those "approved laws that allow some people have privileges over others" must be overturned, and in their stead, logical, ethical laws placed in affect that rectify the scenerio we've seen coming to fruition over the past several years
+Charles Moreland I have taken some...and with a centralized Govt protecting them corporations can not exist.

A corporation is created under the laws of a state as a separate legal entity that has privileges and liabilities that are distinct from those of its members.

You don't need a centralized state anymore then you need corporations, if you can't comprehend that I would suggest you take some philosophy courses
Um, yeah. If you can't see a benefit to any government then you should seriously don your tinfoil hat in some some other country.
No bill of rights, no roads, monopolies galore (if a business could even exist), child labor, no civil rights. Good luck rationalizing that one with anyone. pff. right wing extremists are bat shit insane... edit: this was directed to the +Mark Noble and +Anthony Evangelista tag team
If you hate government and socialism, the democratically evolved western hemisphere probably isn't the best place for you to be living. Might I suggest Nigeria or Botswana?

Ohhh I know, Liberia! It even starts with the same letters as Libertarian!
+Anthony Evangelista ummm, what?  Don't use the 'socialist' word and I won't use the fascist word to distract from the point.  These are ideas and should not be considered pure systems.   Just as capitalism should not.  Our system looks NOTHING like what Adam Smith wrote about.  (seriously, read it).   He was a moral philosopher, and he certainly was not in support of mass global corporations.

As we have in the past (and most countries around the world do) we need a mixed system taken advantage of the best ideas where they work the best.

- What is "private property" and why is it important?   When was this idea originated?  What was the social problem/issue that was trying to be fixed/improved?  

The idea alone has no value, it's purpose and goal is the important part.
+Anthony Evangelista maybe we don't need a centralized state, but we do need a constitution.The one we have happens to mandate a centralized state. If you can't comprehend that I would suggest you take some political science and/or history courses to augment the fantasy world your philosophy courses have created for you.
+Charles Moreland Moreover, rather than sit around as armchair politicos, each of us must take responsibility for electoral outcomes in our precincts.

It's a modest and doable start - but if each of us did this it would help correct the problem of assuming that the system works one way when in fact it works quite differently (to the point, I'd say, it doesn't really work at all).

And hey, it's a great way to meet neighbors.
+Mark Noble yes...  but I  don't want to undervalue this discussion as part of the process.   We (the will of the governed) value greatly when discussing our government in open forums encouraging all to participate.  More ideas are needed, not less.  

back to your point, after the discussion (or as part of), action is the right next step for all of us.
+Charles Moreland "socialist" is neither a bad word nor an extreme one, particularly in the forum of a socialist senator. Don't yield the floor to the right trying desperately to villianize both the word and the beliefs it represents: fair (not equal, fair) distribution of resources, working together as a society toward common goals rather than raping and pillaging each other in the guise of "freedom", and providing for the basic human necessities of all citizens (again, not giving handouts to the lazy but making sure all children can still eat, get healthcare when they're sick and get an education no matter who they're born to). There is nothing extreme about these beliefs, and absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. It's those running around professing that we should let innocent children starve in the streets on principle because their parents are lazy who should be ashamed of themselves... their beliefs are straight out of a Dickens novel, and their time has long past, yet much like the Civil War, they just can't let it go.

There is also nothing un-American about socialism... if there were we wouldn't have polls showing 90%+ support for purely socialist programs like social security, and without socialist action to fix the damage from ruinous attempts at corporatist laissez-faire we would have never emerged from the Great Depression as a world power.

Agreed 100% the average libertarian's notion of "capitalism" does not even vaguely resemble Adam Smith's or John Locke's philosophies on the subject. But then I don't expect people who think NASCAR is a sport and the constitution ends at the 10th amendment to have a very sophisticated grasp of such things.
You are a deceptive, misleading, game player Senator Sanders.

It is a damn shame that the people of your state have sent you to the Hill to represent them.
Go hop in a suicide booth Bender.

Do you have any information to back up your claims or are you just spouting off BS to troll?
Hmmm, let us see.... there is always his anti-constitutional record to reference.
so no information then?
Nope, I thought maybe you had a point, but I was mistaken.
I feel the exact same way about the disastrous affordable care act decision.
Could you please enlighten us all as to what specific unconstitutional policies the good senator has endorsed?

Just last week he tried to get an amendment to the farm bill to allow states to exercise their 10th amendment rights to label products containing GMO without the permission of the feds. And Republicans, supposedly the party of states' rights, voted against it with one exception. Yes, that's right. The Republicans voted FOR the evil, central, federal government being able to tell states whether they can put labels on food products if they want to.

Seems to me that Bernie is the one defending the constitution against corporate corruption causing people to abandon their own professed beliefs.
Sanders is a principled man, and so it's hard not to like him for that, even if you aren't on his side of the political spectrum.

But people just don't trust government to do things efficiently, letting the govt do everything for us would make us poorer. Do you want to be poorer in order to make the rich poor? There is some satisfaction in that, but the pleasure very temporary.

The rich reject equitable socialism because they want to bring back the employer/employee relationship of the Middle Ages. That's what little brown Illegal Immigrants are doing for them. The rest of us reject socialism because we can't stomach being any poorer.
I hear racism is cool and the Germans and Canadians are all poor.

Grow a brain please.
Keith my sweetness, I'l compare ten of yer brains to one of mine :p
Senator Sanders is without a doubt the best we've got; the only one who puts people before profit and my personal first choice for President.  This is his last term and I'll miss his passion and hard work for the American people when he's gone.
Thanks Keith, the Canadian economy per person is actually kicking the USA's ass, but nice try
Best thing i've read on this site since joining. It's a shame no matter how many times people acknowledge simple and obvious truths they are ignored by most. 
+michael myroniuk It's called sarcasm, in response to the guy above me claiming socialism makes people poor. Difficult concept, but "nice try".
+Larry Olson You sure about that? You just claimed that socialism makes poor people poorer.

Tell me more about the "little brown illegal immigrants"... it surely takes a dizzying intellect to come up with that.
Lol Michael that was his point. Maybe he should have put sarcastic at the end 
+Nicholas H Don't worry about it. I get just as much satisfaction from exposing the reading comprehension difficulties of windmill beaters on the left as those on the right.
Without our wonderful socialist policies I wouldn't be looking forward to tomorrows trip to the library (every third Tuesday).  Knowledge, wisdom, entertainment, all a welcome bonus for the American taxpayer.  (I do use the roads too; to ride my bicycle on but the anti-socialism factor is free to use something else; just stay off my lawn, please.)
It would perhaps be easier to take you seriously Keith, if you weren't, you know, dressed up like that. loves and kisses squirt.
If half of what he says is true, the US has an incredible distribution problem. And even worse, if wealthy people actually have so much political power by pure assets, this threatens to undermine the democratic structure.
Exactly Charlie. Our biggest socialist president besides fdr being the Republican Eisenhower. He built the parks and roads.
Right... that's a problem, but the government telling us we have to buy products and services or else we'll be taxed... that's just OK!
The problem with socialist do-gooding isn't that nothing is worth doing and throwing together for. It's that it grows like kudzu. There is, literally, no end to the problems to be solved if someone else is funding your generosity. If you run short of tractable problems, a class-baiting, race-baiting leftist will invent some intractable problems for you to buy off.

As someone on the right, you have to attack people's socialist spending urges constantly and vociferously, more than you really want to, because... they are like kudzu.
+Larry Olson And your ilk is like a flesh eating virus that would happily cannibalize others to raise your own stock. At least kudzu produces oxygen. You produce nothing but delusional fearmongering and irrational hate.

BTW, did you just accuse leftists of "race-baiting" after your "little brown illegal immigrant" remark?

If my choice of avatar is the best you can come up with as a retort, I guess that proves my point.

I repeat: Grow a brain.
+Kit Malone If it weren't for Republicans, Democrats would still own black people!
ROFL because modern Republicans totally embrace that "party of Lincoln" thing, right? They are in no way beholden to the same extreme right that continues to fight against civil rights to the bitter end.

While we're on the subject, remember that Teddy Roosevelt's "Progressive Party" was a Republican offshoot, and Teddy himself was elected as a Republican. Sorry, but I don't see modern Republicans running around calling themselves "progressives" or endorsing any of the Republican ideals of either Lincoln's or Roosevelt's era. Nice try with the revisionism though.
America is run by the federal reserve
I agree with you Kit Malone , I also wish people would stop blaming the unions . I know they are not perfect but it is a line of defense that seems to be more eroded every day. Why can't both sides find that middle ground that maintains workers rights( we do still have some) and owners, the money men , what have you still see a profit. Why on earth does this have to cause such acrimony on both sides?:-) :-) 
You can build hotels on Madison Avenue and charge people a fee any time they land on your square.
Nothing to do with Lincoln sweetheart... Jim Crowe = Democrat. Segregation = Democrat. Welfare State = Democrat. Destruction of the black family = Democrat. Affirmative action = Democrat. They might as well come out and asy, "Hey nigger, come up into the house. You'll never make out there on your own!"
The whole labeling thing is what's at the root of bigotry but it's damn hard to have this kind of discussion without using words like 'socialism'.  So if we must do so, yes, I'll agree that Senator Sanders is a progressive (and that the President is a pragmatic centrist).
Stop arguing over left and right and realise your country is run by the fed which is a private company
+amy campbell Why? Because any time anyone proposes anything even a baby step left of center to help anyone, a veritable army of conservative/libertarian tinfoil hats shows up to insist that it's the last straw that will break the back of society and freedom. Liberals respond by trying to politely sway them with logic and encouraging them to fall in line with a slightly less corrupt status quo rather than meeting their idiocy head-on as anyone with a sense of moral decency should.

Compromise is dead. All we have is a bunch of self-deluded ideologues (on both sides) so utterly bought into the whole Democrat vs. Republican thing they are too busy to notice as the corporations rob them all blind. The only thing that would make a difference is to get behind a third party, but for all the fine purist left/right sentiment on display here, there's not a great deal in the way of actual positive action being done on either side to fix the problem.

Acrimony, at this point, is fully warranted. The riots in the streets will be far more acrimonious.
So much racist projection in this thread from conservatives. I'm shocked.
The problem with right wing pedants and fanatics, is that their political viewpoints and bigotry are like dogshit...if exposed to the bright light of day and the heat of close inspection...they smell worse than had you just left them moldering, disregarded in the crack of an old sneaker...they are like dogshit.
Lol at u all for being simple minded
+amy campbell I too think that the Unions are important; they give us the lobbying power that is apparently reserved solely for the corporations and millionaires now.  Like all systems of power they bring a level of corruption but under Citizens United the Unions can be the sole voice for the working class.  +Keith Childers I'll add my +1 to yours for +Anthony DeTommasi's comment.
+ben hill Would that I were as intelligent as you, sir.  Please share your bountiful wisdom with us and tell us all your plan for removing the fed.
+ben hill Lol at u for believing everything you hear on the Glenn Beck show. The fed board is a government agency. The reserve banks and member banks are privately operated, but they take orders from the board, which is appointed by the president and confirmed by Congress. All profit generated by the fed goes back into the U.S. Treasury. These are not the conditions of a private company.

Private is when you have a stockholder meeting to decide who the executives are. That's not how the fed works.
Most of you will grow out of the leftist viewpoint, the real world will eventually konk you on the head so hard and repeatedly that the legs of your bed collapse. Probably 2/3 of my friends on the right once considered themselves young Democrats and had liberal views on issues.

This is, for the most part, what makes you guys look foolish to guys like me. You are so determinedly right, and you got all the name calling and yer-a-racist clown twaddle. But as I sit here I know that most of you are, in fact, tomorrow's Conservatives. And that makes taking you seriously somewhat embarrassing.
Lol simple get 380 million ppl to stop paying income tax and write a letter to your local politician that would get the ball rolling
Actually sweetheart, if you look at American history progressivism has gotten stronger with time, and conservatism is becoming less relevant with every passing day. This little Tea Party movement is the desperate last throes of a formerly dominant little xenophobic clique of racists and theocratic regressives who think they can stop the tidal wave of societal evolution by standing in front of it and acting really angry for the news cameras. Good luck with that.

How your own friends have anecdotally changed over time means less than nothing to me, or to a historical view of American politics as a consistent progressive march. Particularly for conservatives, who prefer to live inside their little echo chambers, rely solely on Fox News for all of their information, and refuse to associate with anyone who isn't just like them ethnically, religiously, politically, etc. one's anecdotal perceptions are likely to be vastly skewed from objective reality.
He should get on with selling chicken and keep out of politics.
+Keith Childers u are an idiot 100% of IRS money goes to pay interest on a private debt I'm glad u are ok with that
U are slaves u were not slaves 2oo years ago I would not call that progression kieth :(
Wasn't talking to you keith, you are a dope altogether and we don't need you to evolve into our dope.
But wait, don't you need to fix the disasterous obamacare decision first?
wake up Bernie, it'a already like that and has been for a while. Maybe if you would get your ass out of washington for a while you would know this.
+Larry Olson So when does that conservatism kick in?  I'll be sixty next year, I marched for Dr. King and Rodney King and with the Occupy movement.  Growing older isn't always tied directly to becoming selfish.
+Larry Olson Did you not just complain about the name calling ten minutes before you called someone a dope?
I wish I was retarded aswell
" Uhh.. you know Bernie has been talking like this for quite awhile. SInce like, the 70s."
When you are right why change!
Wasn't Benny Hill a British tv personality and clown known for physical pratfalls and unwanted overtures toward buggery as a major staple of comedic source material. This version is even more hilariously entertaining.
"I feel the exact same way about the disastrous affordable care act decision."

Disastrous implies there was a disaster. So far no such disaster exists. Speak up and cite sources, else, your pie hole? Shut it. Go back to sound clip land where prattle like that makes dullards think you're impressive.
The only difference between republican and democrat is the spelling anyone who disagrees has a closed mind
Fascism anybody no the meaning of the word
How about this, your all ASSHOLES, and I've read enough,sound like a bunch of articulate 3 year olds.I'm done.
Why yes, I do know what fascism means. I also know what the word no means. Look it up, learn the difference and then come back. We'll give you another shot at being clever, because we're nice like that. you like being a semi-literate clown? Do you like pretending to have trenchant truths to "reveal"...doing your best to pontificate about them, but hindered most significantly by an unwarranted sanctimonious attitude...not to mention serious difficulties with use of your native tongue.

PS-- both parties are indeed filled predominantly with corporatist shills...but there are indeed other differences. I do not ascribe to either perhaps you are rowing that slave boat on your own, you presumptuous, arrogant douche.
+Charles Hickey Why is it that those that call names instead of being capable of reasoned argument also are lacking in basic English skills like spelling, grammar and punctuation?  I must say that when I was three years old my spelling and grammar surpassed whatever education you lay claim to.

Calling people names is a good way to get hurt in a bar or on the street; on the Internet it's the last resort of cowards and those who surrender because they can't debate.
"anyone who disagrees has a closed mind"

Yes, he actually said it. LOL
+Rabid Angel pity ur logic was not as sound as ur grammar and in context u obviously understood me so go u for being a proud member of the grammar police
I guess it's all right for you +Anthony DeTommasi when you're reacting to another person who insults people but can't back it up with facts or arguments like +ben hill 

(He tells us: "The only difference between republican and democrat is the spelling anyone who disagrees has a closed mind", a sentence ignorantly absent of one preposition, two capitals, one semi-colon and a period; obviously a well educated individual that we should pay attention to for his wisdom.) :/
Lol I'm so smart I can spell and pay tax and be a slave to corporate America and I will defend my masters till the end stop being such massive icks
U all are on the internet go ask some questions about the history or if u are all so bent on getting true facts from Ben hill I'd be happy to make an audio book for u all since u all seem so lazy
I guess the answer to my question is definitely do enjoy pretending to have trenchant truths to reveal...lmao!

Yes Charlie, I jump right into the trenches the fanatics and trolls dig with their unsupported nonsense...kindness and rational argument does not work on lunacy, when it appears intent on being provocative and inflammatory.

Jack...take an SSRI and call me in the morning.
Jack.. Who would know the art of slander better than the supporters of this decision from the Supreme Court... Just put a "for sale" sign on the nation & remember... "Corporations are people too.....Now that is a joke!
not really, would be great to see you mensas in a barroom brawl, and my awesome education came from San Diego California,where even illiterate morons like myself can succeed.
"As someone on the right, you have to attack people's socialist spending urges constantly and vociferously, more than you really want to, because... they are like kudzu."

Nice! Very trendy and inspiring, there, Righty!

Your ideology lead us into the worst recession since the Great Depression. Your ideology also caused the Great Depression. Countless millions in this country -- and so very many more across the world -- lost their homes, their lives, their livelihoods because people like you value dollars more than common decency. You sell the biggest lies ever: trust in God Money. It will regulate itself. The government you elect is bad! Trust the corporations, because they only profit when they do right by you!

Everything out of mouths like yours is double-talk. It goes beyond just stuff like Citizen's United. War and death and cut-throat subjugation are all you people understand.

You wanna attack "people's socialist spending urges" because it makes you feel so much better than everyone else. Get real dude. You're barely even a human being. Attack away. I'll stand against you every time because you're not just embarrassing. You're repulsive.

So now the air's clear. I know you despise me and I'm pretty clear I think I've scraped better things than you off the bottom of my shoe after a walk through the dog park. Personal stuff aside, how about throwing some facts out there to discuss? Give us numbers, give us stats, give us something other than the opinion of a soulless piece of swine so we can refute your ideas rather than just tell you you're an idiot.

No worries if that's beyond your pay grade. I'm sure an intelligent troll will pop up eventually and make this more interesting.
+Anthony DeTommasi seek knowledge and you will find answers listen to someone and you will be fed lies simple
+Kit Malone Exceptions make the rule?

What's that quotation attributed to Churchill and a few others, something like, "If you are Conservative when you are young, you have no heart. If you are Liberal when you get older, you have no brain.

+Charlie Harris Yes, you are correct. But I get the impression that it's what I'm saying that the Sanders fans don't like, not how I'm saying it. 

Calling people racist for mentioning anything involving race  is just tiresome at this point, it's PC and yesterday and childish. You all seriously need to grow up and meet the real world. If any of you had come and lived with me in Socal near Corona, you would learn what real racism is, every day. Racism has nothing whatsoever to do with overfed white boys pointing their sticky fingers at racists of their color, real and imagined. You guys have no idea how stupid you appear. Sorry if that's name-calling too.
Aw, arent you just the cuteist liddle corporation with your CEO eyes and no denying where you got those bylaws?!

unnatural persons didn't exist when the constitution was written, so the writers figured that people were, well, people , usually with one head, that had god given rights to consent or deny the. Validity of the laws of the land.

Given that the love of money is the root of all evil, I'd say talking corporations are tools of the Devil.
Just sayin
Racists often feel the need to accuse others of the same and to blame the targets of their hate for offense taken. In psychology we call it projection. Here we just call it being a subhuman racist douche still trying to live in a bygone era where racism was okay.
Bravo Bernie. It is nice to hear a man with something to lose speak honestly about the abuse which has already started by the "Billionaires' Club", i.e. people with obscene wealth, net worth over a billion that have started spending huge sums, 10's of millions at single candidates by attacking their opponents. Between now and November the GOP will spend billions. Probably 4-500,000,000 more than Obama between now and then. One can only hope they fail in their attempt to take over the government for themselves. Remember, they have already transferred over 700,000,000,000, almost 3/4's of a trillion dollars to themselves in the 08 financial crisis. They are in it for the money. And they are winning so far. 
+Michael Rohde :) only point would be it doesn't matter who is at the top when the Rockefeller family controls the puppet show anyway
+ben hill It all makes sense now... you're a psycho. Enjoy that.

Tell me again how an entity that must give all of its profits back to the treasury and which doesn't get to elect its own board members or chair is "private". I yearn for your worldly wisdom.

I'm not a psychologist by trade, but libertarians in these threads exhibit so many mental disorders I have become somewhat of an expert.
+Marty Demichele yes greed is endless I myself want some of your hair but greed and enslaving a nation of ppl are a tad different
I know Ben...I am listening to YOU, man...all I hear is blather and lies.

Jack...will you please quit arrogating to be a self-appointed forum moderator. Save your sanctimonious bs for your family members and clearly do not have the faintest clue about that which you are preaching.

An internet forum of a socialist senator, where right wing fanatics are appearing for the express purpose of exhorting inflammatory not a possible medium for patient, rational debate to be employed with hope of yielding a moment of intellectual epiphany amongst angry, bigoted semi-literate ideologues.

Enough already.

Because as much as I want your hair im not going to do anything immoral to get it unlike the federal reserve bank of America and the IRS fleecing u all of your wages illegally
+Benito Cue ...

Whoa, boy, Bubba! You sure did say a lot of dumb things! A lot of what you babbled isn't even cogent or intelligibly stated. And I'm reasonably sure I don't have the requisite eternity to counter all the crap you just dribbled down your leg. But I'll give a few points a shot:

"ignoring Governments denial for decades which has been moving revenues (taxes) from one fund to the other to continue the debt, the deficit, special interest, the ponzi scheme to date." Wrong. Bernie has called for -and got - an audit of the fed and proven to the American public exactly that is happening. He's also repeatedly pointed out how government borrows against Social Security, which is both solvent and stable, and then said government says that system is "broke", which is not only incorrect but it's a money laundering scheme all of its own.

He's actually one of the only politicians to squarely place the blame right where it belongs: on Big Money and the politicians owned by Big Money.

"I dislike the name calling, the pensivly berating iterations of Obama nation." Right. Thems there are Tea Party words. I think you just tipped your tin foil hat and revealed you're one of "those" people.

"Independent( Mr. Saunders), I think not, more to point 'Progressive'." Oh, completely. That's a given. That's why loonies like you show up here en masse to try and discredit him. You people are like pigeons. One of you homes in on a French fry on the curb and before you know it there are dumb birds flying everywhere, spreading disease, crapping all over everything, making lots of squawking noises and, generally, accomplishing nothing but being a nuisance.

"More taxes more government more poor, hungry and sick dependent on Bigger government." First off you can't use that old "kool-aid" trope and then spout off about big/bigger government with any hope of not coming across like a pre-programmed drone parroting what you heard on Faux News.

Gah. Sorry. "Faux" means "false". It's a play on words. Like Fox News is false news. Get it?

Gotta remember my audience here...

And along those lines, good lord, you people still haven't learned. Big and bad do not mean the same thing. Look, I realize you're not terribly smart so I'll break this down for you: watermelons are big, and when they're ripe they're good. If a watermelon rots a bit, it will be big and it will be bad. Now let's look at an apple. It is small compared to the watermelon. But when it is fresh it is both small and good. But if the apple gets old it will rot. Then it will be both small and bad.

I swear to gawd I need to make an illustrated children's book that will get this across to you tea bagging nutters.

"The century long progression to destroy individual freedom and liberties of all American citizens" Yup. Progressives are destroying peoples' rights to marry who they want, and to do what they want with their bodies. They're destroying peoples' rights to a better education, their right to health care, their right to have jobs, their right to fair wages and their right to have elected officials who aren't bought by corporate money. Those damned Progressives, they supported womens' rights! And civil rights! And worker's rights! All in the name of destroying the individual freedoms and liberties of all Americans! Damn them all to heck! Can I get an AMEN?! CAN I GET A HALLELUJAH?

Sorry for the all caps. I thought like that might turn you on and I was trying to whip you into a frenzy.

"don't get me started on undocumented immigrants :-)" I wouldn't dream of it. You've said enough ignorant things already that I'm a bit surprised a rift hasn't opened up and imploded the universe under the weight of all that stupid crap. That topic might just end it all in one wet, sucking WHOOSH as the universe gives up on sustaining itself entirely.
+Marty Demichele It's even funnier that we're in the thread of an independent socialist Senator, and very few of the regular progressive participants here are Democrats. Yet conservatives love to assume that criticism of conservatism and libertarianism equals supporting the Democrats, who are in many ways even more corrupt for not openly admitting their corporatist ties... not that the astroturfers aren't doing their best to look all "grass roots" and "folksy" as the Kochs bus them to protest rallies and tell them what to chant.

Anyhow yeah... not a Democrat. Republicans are still either self-deluded dupes or self-aggrandizing pigs.
1913 federal reserve was created by the Rothschild,rockerfellar and Morgan family's along with there mates and they have printed trillions of unbacked dollars ever since with no control if you believe the fed is audited or in anyway controlled by the government you need to google who owns the fed
So you're saying the president doesn't appoint the board, and congress doesn't confirm the nominees?

One of us is wrong. I think it might be you.
Bernie is a passionate, cynical, ideological socialist who is just plain WRONG. I respect his authenticity, but he is on the wrong side of history and the wrong side of the future.
Lol and who paid the presidents bills I no u are smarter than that kieth
If anyone believes a private bank works for the interest of the country is love to know where u have been since forever cause that's insane
Mute the thread Jack...we are tired of you arrogating to be a forum moderator...mute it, and all will be slightly happier.
Since you are all so smart and asking for facts I will leave if someone shows me the law in your country that states u all have to pay a tax on your labour
Jack, you can mute the conversation. It's somewhere at the top of the post. And I don't blame you.

See, here's the problem. The people who are coming here aren't coming here to debate. They're coming here to insult. And it happens all the time. They do it because their ideology isn't about substance, it isn't about fixing things and it isn't about making progress, being heard and hearing others.

They come here because Bernie stands for things they don't believe in and they know that if they need to insult people, they'll find people they've already dehumanized right here. Easily.

Notice something: those of us who actually stand for something, who actually believe in the things Bernie talks about, at least - for the most part - pad our sracasm and belligerence with facts and points. Not a one person who came here because they stand against Bernie's policies actually did that. They quip, they snark and then that's it.

I respect that you may not agree with my tactics on this, but my belief is that sometimes you have to take a stand.
God Bless Bernie Sanders, I love this guy. Way to go + Rabid Angel.+Holly Glaser.
oh, and to all the corporate devils advocates there is no way out of that contract with the devil. Don't bother with your lawyers either they work for him too.
I have a less charitable view (than does Rabid) of anyone foolish enough to adopt nanny patrol on an internet forum...but concur as to the reasoning behind meeting substance free inflammatory garbage head-on.

Hit mute already Jack, if you were sincere and not posturing some moral high road...boring and pointless self-aggrandization on your part at this point.
And I don't watch tv so I will never know who he is
" wake up Bernie, it'a already like that and has been for a while. Maybe if you would get your ass out of washington for a while you would know this."

+Mike. Montoya : A) Bernie's been fighting this crap for a long, long time and maybe you should direct your ire at the people who sold everyone out rather than those who stood against them, and B) Bernie was right here in town a few weeks ago. He gets out plenty. Met him several times. He talks, but he always listens.
"+Anthony DeTommasi  do you like being a slave"

I'm worried, Anthony. I think +ben hill  is making a pass at you.This could get creepy...Craig's List creepy. :)
Jack...I fear I had your posturing pegged...goodbye already, sir. You will need to toughen up a bit to play on the internet, unfortunately.
"Go away Bernie."

Sorry, bub. He lives in my state and we put him in that office. You don't have a say in whether he stays or goes, but you can certainly not frequent this forum if he bothers you. And that's our fondest wish if you've nothing meaningful to say.
I'd like to point out that for the first time ever, a handful of rational progressives have managed to keep a G+ "Hot Topics" thread from being completely shouted down by the usual wave of heat-guided rightbots screaming their talking points at max volume. It sure is nice to see more folks speaking up and forcefully pushing back on an ideology that more often than not gets its way through swarm tactics and yelling loudest.

Good job all involved. Keep it up.
wait, this is new? since when couldn't the top 0.001% not own everyone?
+Keith Childers ... it's disappointing that we've gotta actually flame on just to hold ground here. I believe pretty strongly that open debate and other peoples' view points should be out there, but no one from the other side comes here for that reason. They come here to insult, they come here to wave their junk around, and then when we torch up people who might actually come here legit get caught in the flames.

I think imma make a point that if I'm scorching people who clearly came here for a fight, I'm also going to try to support people who clearly didn't. Or at the very least, to respond civilly to those who want to argue civilly.

Not that that happens much here. :(
Since we found out what the top 1 per cent really was. You know those who use the VIP entrance.
+Benito Cue I honestly cannot believe you're looking for the high ground now after that abomination of a post earlier. It is not ethically sufficient to agree to disagree as Americans when the people you wish progressives to concede to are seeking the dissolution of the country itself and knowingly allowing the most vulnerable of the society (including children, whose only sin was being born to the wrong parents) die of neglect so those who have many billion times more than they could ever spend in a lifetime can keep 5% more of it.

There can be no reconciliation with that point of view.
+Kit Malone Well, then you must be a young dude, dude. It's not only true, it's the most blatantly obvious change you see people going through in their adulthood, dude.

You've heard that Churchill quote a million times because it's a truism.
Generalize much?

Just because you never leave the echo chamber doesn't mean everyone on the outside is the same by extension.
I agree with you Rabid, and have pulled back from tearing at (even) certain libertarian ideologues, so long as they have been sincere and willing to engage in a semi-rational fashion.

Beware also of some who may share left leaning ideals, but who arrive instead with a more particular agenda of pontificating the manner people ought post on the forum. I am sure you are expressing some regret at the "loss" of Jack...and I will acknowledge that I remain mildly ambivalent as to whether I made a correct call in reacting to his arrogation...but that is indeed what it was/is.

I have seen that pattern devolve and generally, eventually, the holder of such unwarranted parental pretension, proves similarly sanctimonious about manifesting one's progressive ideals also in a manner that they would deem worthy...i.e., voting democrat or else being "worse and more harmful than right wing dupes...not a true liberal....". Those are actual quotes from more than one such who began exactly as poor Jack did here.

Perhaps Jack is different...but I made a judgment call and will hold to it until and unless he reemerges one day and shows my sensors were which theoretical time I will give an earnest acknowledgement of fault and a sincere apology to him if warranted.
Look at Ben pretending not to know who Glenn Beck is after direct citation of the "Rockefeller puppet show". LOL

Sockpuppetry only fools those as mentally inept as yourself, old chum.
+Rabid Angel The day I meet an intellectually honest libertarian who can take a debate beyond his prepared talking points, I'll engage in good faith. I've seen a grand total of two in the year I've been here.

As you said, they aren't here to discuss... they're here to shout down Bernie and anyone else who dares to poke holes in their self-assured bubble of delusion and hate. Turning up the temperature is merely a tool for getting the complete lunacy lurking below the surface to bubble to the top, so it can be exposed for what it is... rather than capitulated to "keep the peace". When you compromise with crazy, you end up with crazy policy and a crazy society.

I actually have some friends who are Libertarians and make earnest, heart felt and even reasonable arguments. I often joke with them that if they'd just leave it at personal liberties and not talk about money, social care, deregulation and the environment we'd actually agree. :)

Dunno if Jack was actually a troll in disguise. I'm sort of erring on the side of doubt, if only because the problem with fighting for things is that sometimes it hardens you, and when it does that it's easy to become that which you're fighting against. I'd rather bear arms when it's clear who is here for a scrap and if there's doubt, let respect be the path leading me to silence.
I didn't have a problem with Jack... he was far less motivated by appearances than the usual suspect self-appointed forum moderators around here. I have shown everyone here who didn't make racist statements or parrot Fox talking points the respect deserved from one intelligent, free-willed human being to another.

But when you dehumanize yourself by willingly becoming a sockpuppet for nonsense you've never bothered to contemplate on your own or capitulate out of false civility to make sure your side "presents itself well"... I will tend to treat you exactly how you're behaving... as a Borg drone.
Libertarians are usually pretty good at identifying corporatist abuse and diagnosing corruption...the problems arise when their prescription for the cure emerges:

dismantling government altogether and trusting to a mythical, ill-advised post-apocalyptic utopia, contradictorily based on false presumptions about human nature, the second amendment, and certain entitlements and beliefs in personal superiority that would have innocent children starving in the streets...neighbors blowing each other away, inside of three days.
Of course unions would still be able to extort money from their members to elect socialists like bernie.
By "extort" you mean contribute individually as citizens rather than sending the forced contributions deducted from hundreds of thousands of employee paychecks and investor dividend checks in a lump sum, right?

Yeah, I'm sure that's what you meant. Bernie Sanders also Colonel Sanders? This is really opening my eyes, I think...
Uh oh... unions have millions of members so they can contribute millions of times... The Kochs are only two guys so they can only contribute twice. Campaign finance actually resembles the "one person, one vote" principle the country was founded on. Quick, to the Supreme Court! Our guys on the inside will fix this up good...
U three I think fight for the right side. But for the wrong reasons
+ben hill the only one I see here arguing for a fantasy is you, with your continued sockpuppetry of tinfoil hat talking points. Stop being part of the problem by letting others tell you how and what to think... you'll be happier.
+Michael Tilton ... shoosh. Grown ups are talking.

So anyways, yeah, agreed +Anthony DeTommasi . There's this blind faith that if there were no regulation, everything would sort itself out. And that's ridiculous. Look how well that's working out in every third world country where people are hacking others' limbs off because their skin color is different. Looks how awesome that is in practice, in newly industrialized nations where toxic chemicals flow into rivers. causing kids to be born missing parts of their skulls, or with extra limbs. Looks how great that was when ethnic genocide swept Bosnia.

Is that the path of every human being, unfettered by laws and societal expectation? No, certainly not. But the purpose of laws and such societal constructs is to make sure the rights of the individual do not trample on the rights of all other individuals. That those with all the guns cannot just shoot those who are unarmed, with impunity. That the majority cannot say who can and cannot marry. That the wealthy cannot just pollute the food of the poor.

The worst disconnect between the Libertarian ideology and those who actually espouse those beliefs is that so many of those folks don't even get that what they're saying is completely against their own best interest.
The Fed needs massive reform, there is no disagreement on that point. But doing away with it altogether and flipping a switch to commodity backed currency as Ron Paul wants to, global economic consequences be damned, is just irresponsible petulance
+Rabid Angel you just summed up very well the reasoning behind my labeling them Pollyannaish and infantile in their impracticable ideologies.
It's not irresponsible myfriend how many of your own presidents said printing money powers should always be held by the government not by private interests I'm not saying do away with a central bank I'm just saying in privatise it
+ben hill It's already unprivatized. It never was private since it was founded. The fact that there are corrupt people running it and doing the appointments doesn't make it private, any more than Congress or the Presidency are private for being staffed by corporatist yes men. We (the public) put them there.

I'm not even getting into another fiat currency "debate". Those that just chant the "print more money" mantra with not a scrap of understanding of actual economic theory are far too naive to engage in a meaningful conversation.
Umm okay?

"Its authority is derived from statutes enacted by the U.S. Congress and the System is subject to congressional oversight. The members of the Board of Governors, including its chairman and vice-chairman, are chosen by the President and confirmed by the Senate. The government also exercises some control over the Federal Reserve by appointing and setting the salaries of the system's highest-level employees."

Sounds like a public entity to me, boss.
U have not done your history keith
And I can prove its a private bank
Private entities cannot be created nor destroyed by Congressional action. The Fed was created by Congress, and repeal of the legislation that established it could dissolve it.

It's not private, and you're hopelessly deluded if you keep insisting that it is.
How? By changing the definition of "private"?

The system has private members but the board of governors is publicly appointed. You have absolutely no factual basis for your claims, yet you persist. That's the textbook definition of a fanatic.

By the way, the entire history of the Fed is in that same article. I suggest you read it, then go read an economics textbook to understand the distinction between public and private entities...
I still think we would ultimately save effort if we bothered the initial task of preparing a dedicated domain full of canned responses. We could easily just link to these in reply to the five or six talking points and parroted soundbites repeatedly addressed from each varietal of ideologue we typically receive here.
Alan Greenspan wrote that himself other than wiki lol
Watch and get back to me
Okay that same description of the Fed is in college economics and history textbooks. Did Greenspan write those too?

You said prove it, I did, you have offered no refutation besides another tinfoil hat theory. Again, fanaticism in prose and practice.
If people want to buy the story that the government controls the fed that's there loss
No his bosses publicist did
Again wild claims, no evidence. You think if you repeat lies and gibberish long enough and loud enough they become true. It works for Fox. It just doesn't work when you try it on intelligent people.
Did u click my link
More facts than u need 2 hours worth
+ben hill you are correct the fed is a privately held company that has no governmental oversight and no controls in place to audit them 
If you watch even 15 minutes off that still disagree then will have to agree to disagree
Sorry if Google's being mean YouTube America freedom to fascism
There is no link

And no, he is not correct. The Federal Reserve Act stipulates the nature of the Fed and the appointment procedures for its board. Congress just forced an audit via legislation. A public entity having private members doesn't make it private, any more than the EPA is private because it has corporate membership on its advisory board.

When you're arguing against both the letter of the law and the reality of the practice (you are) you're wrong, and no amount of sensationalist conspiracy mongering is going to change reality.

It is not possible for a private entity to exist as a result of congressional mandate. It is automatically and definitionally a public entity if established and perpetually authorized to continue existence by government, or if government can unilaterally dissolve it. Period. There is no debate to be had here. You're arguing against objective, academic fact with fringe, unsubstantiated theories and you're very simply wrong.

I won't "agree to disagree"... you're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts and your own dictionary.
If it's a Cato Institute documentary that has been making the rounds lately, don't bother. It has already been exposed as Koch funded propaganda.

If it's a Ron Paul speech, also don't bother. He's as fanatical and deluded as you are.
Did u search utube for America freedom to fascism
Activist documentary film of equal authoritative value to this debate as Michael Moore's "Capitalism: A Love Story".

I'll humor you and watch it, despite the fact check site I just read identifying 31 separate inaccuracies, misquotes or lies of omission, compared to Moore's 13 (and Moore's film is actually critically rated), as well as this review which points out many more factual discrepancies and exposes the filmmaker as a libertarian shill and a liar about the film being screened at Cannes:

But all that said, I'll still watch it, as long as you acknowledge that you can't change the definition of private vs. public entity no matter what any propaganda film claims. Let's watch Reefer Madness next, k?
Ny times wtf really y not just live with a tv on your head
Later, one of Mr. Schiff’s confederates, who was also later convicted and sent to prison, sent e-mail messages to supporters saying that the psychiatrist’s notes were introduced as part of a ruse to help Mr. Schiff escape prosecution.

Ms. MacNab, who has testified before Congress, said that at each of the trials prosecutors showed how the accused took out of context sections of the law and court decisions while ignoring other sections, including those shown to them by I.R.S. agents.

“People who are drawn into this movement just refuse to acknowledge facts that show their beliefs have no basis in fact,” she said. “Most of them have failed, their business has failed, their marriage has failed, and instead of taking responsibility for it they want to blame the government.”
NY Times is where movies get reviewed, sport.

Do you really want to split hairs on reliability of sources when you've just pushed as fact a documentary film made by someone who finished second for the libertarian party presidential nomination in 2004? REALLY? What about Michael Moore's film? Is it all false because you personally disagree with it?

So in your mind, the NYT is biased and this guy is an impartial journalist?

Deluded and fanatical, the lot of you.
Just like the guys outside wallstreet were criminals I bet ny times done an article on that lol
Have you ever tried aluminum instead of tin? I hear it's lighter and more comfortable.
Yea abuse time your a fucking idiot
Dude, seriously. You've just cited a propaganda film made by a libertarian party member as objective journalism and now you're running down the New York Times for being biased.
LOL "Insult time"

I see I've penetrated the delusion far enough to elicit at least the first glimmer of a human response. We'll call that progress.
“People who are drawn into this movement just refuse to acknowledge facts that show their beliefs have no basis in fact,” she said. “Most of them have failed, their business has failed, their marriage has failed, and instead of taking responsibility for it they want to blame the government.”
What reason did he have making a doco that not once sides with either polio party ....... None what reasons do ny times have .......many
What reason did he have to make false statements about the Fed? How about being a presidential candidate for the political party that wants to end it? You think? Maybe?
Is it reality itself you hate, or just individual facts that don't fit nicely in your false narrative?
I'm blaming ur government not mine you fuck stick conformist dog
This is bigger than political views u fucking idiot
What are you talking about? You live here too, right? It's our government, not mine. It's your government too. You vote, just like me. Or maybe you don't, but you can. Not my fault when you lose.

I'm a conformist for admitting that the Fed needs reform but not taking that extra step of insisting that it's some grand conspiracy designed to institute totalitarian rule? If I have to go completely over the edge to join you at the bottom of the insanity cliff to be a non-conformist, count me a proud conformist LOL.

You're seriously messed up to be able to deny this huge pile of facts in favor of some a priori belief that the government is evil, you know that right?
Can we watch "Reefer Madness" now? This one is boring.
I'm not American u tool
Would u like me to draw u a fuckn map
Oh good, so I definitely care what you think about our political system and have nothing but the utmost respect for your strong opinions on how we should change it.

Wait, why do you care again?
Omg I love America and the bullshit lies there media feed me haha at u for being a tool
But... you're not American... and you think it's funny that I am and I love my country?
American?...I have been questioning species for hours now, cane.
Because cooperate America rules the world u are an absolute moron for asking me to point that out
Oh I get it, so you want us to change our laws because your own country can't be bothered to stand up for itself and break free of America's imaginary deathgrip.

I'm really hoping you don't live in Germany or Canada...
Tell your leaders to stop buying US Treasury bonds. Problem solved. Glad I could help... have a great day :)
U love nothing except ur house car and your salary if u are a proud American lol I'm not even finishing I give up u are part of the reason y ur country is doomed u are all idiots get of the alcohol my friends peace to none off u
No, I'm pretty sure I love my country. At least enough to defend it against psychos spewing false rhetoric from the comfortable perch of imagined global persecution.

We may well be doomed, but it will be of our own making as a self-determining nation... we'll sink or swim as one. Unfortunately there are lots of intellectual boat anchors like yourself tied on and treading water becomes more and more difficult by the day.
Someone call Canada and tell them one of their asylum "guests" is running loose and has found an internet terminal.
Oops, hung up on Canada. They were quite worried too...
I live in australia a country built on tax lol I hate everything British was born in Belfast figure y ? Australia was made to tax ppl your country was made by ppl running from that y are our country's both the same today and let's be very fucking clear they didn't change hear if I work overtime 48 cents to the filler leaves my pocket but whatever guys love tour bank by them a box of chocolates xxx
Lol u sink as 99% buddy trust me that one percent won't be there
Apparently the queen's English is a second language in Australia.

Just reminding you that I have not, even once in this thread, said:

1. that I like the Fed
2. that I think the Fed acts in the best interests of America
3. that the Fed is fine the way it is

In fact I feel quite the opposite about all three. The only thing I have challenged you on here is your continued insistence on the provably false notion that the Fed is a private entity. And your deluded mind couldn't even suffer that one sliver of reality invading your otherwise perfect little conspiracy fantasy, could it?
And if anyone spell checks hear I will hunt them down in the next life
Oh I think we might borrow a page or two from the French as regards our precious 1% in the coming years.
Spell check doesn't help with misplaced homonyms (no I didn't just call you gay)
Could you try a little harder to communicate were doing a bit better earlier, and I haven't the energy atm to decode unintelligible drivel from unintelligible grammar and usage.
It's hard to type while running from the guys with nets.
Fair dude and il pay u respect for being smarter than most but u think Rockefeller did it for America ur dollar is worth 4c of what it was in the twentys and no-one tell me that's just inflation get over it .......
That would be another strawman attempt at an argument I never made.

Got any more?
I'm sorry to all for aack of grammar lol no I'm not I'm on my phone working and this is not an English test I could waste my day spellchecking small essays or ......not
Our currency's value fluctuates relative to the instability in other currencies around the world (including yours). It doesn't matter what it's worth compared to 100 years ago, it only matters what it's worth on the global exchange market today and how well it covers the cost of living index domestically.

Other countries buy US bonds because they're stable. They don't care that the currency isn't backed by commodity... not really sure why you do. It's kind of China's and Japan's decision where to invest their money, and if they're dumb enough to give us money for IOUs believing they'll never get it back... umm... good for us?
And it is private
Nope, not unless you change the definition of private. Do you work for Webster's?

If you do, could you please take a picture of yourself and paste it in there next to "naive"?
"delusional" would work too if there's no room.
It dosent matter that houses are million plus are u insane how much interest every American will pay in there life time most forced to work two jobs to buy Monsanto made bullshit food all for who ?
U are the shitest power ranger ever :(
Anyone that likes working there whole life to give 80% of it to ten families is insane so as many tinfoil wearing ,conspiracy theory throwing ,green tobacco smoking comments u can shot at me they are all void because you're a typical ignorant American :) have really devolved into nonsense here...have you been drinking on the job?
Your overall intention and message are together very unclear...besides spouting out various soundbites that are tenuously connected and a bit strained to follow, you also refuse to write with complete sentences or thoughts. I am quitting you lover...not enough genuine substance to warrant the extra effort it takes trying to track your unfocussed missives. 
Fucking wordsmith nothing else interpret this any way u so please u r a fucking idiot ciao and sorry to Mr KFC for helping bring his post to this sad sad level
And a final lol at some of u guys for writing endless pages of dribble
Thought so cane....woof! Btw, the word is drivel, you illiterate fuck, and it was you that generated the bulk of it...dribble is what YOU do when they spoon feed you in the ward. Wipe your chin, you crazy bitch!
Time for Ol Bernie to retire.....blah, blah, blah....
+Heather Rny His fans will miss him; this IS his final term. You're not paying attention, but if 'blah, blah, blah' is your comment, then I'm not surprised.
Boy, +Anthony DeTommasi and +Keith Childers You have a lot more patience with trolls than I.  +ben hill showed he was a troll immediately; I was patient enough to engage him for a while then threw my hands up in exasperation.  (Maybe he'll leave and go have that picnic.)
+Charlie Harris Don't confuse patience with steadfast refusal to allow ignorance to reign unchallenged :)

I'm well past my patience threshold.
Well, I agree with one comment of +Benito Cue Challenging the trolls is like challenging the Jehovah's Witness at the door (and not unlike beating your head on that door).  People so firmly committed to spurious ideas with no factual reasoning for their position reaches a point of just pissing in the wind.  

Although I do understand your point +Keith Childers I often have a hard time ignoring such specious commentary and kick myself for time wasted trying to discuss things with people who are so intractable.

I would like to practice: "I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect."-Edward Gibbons, or 'Silence is true wisdom's best reply."-Euripides but I sometimes engage in fruitless battles too.  (Sometimes it's fun.)
I was counter-trolling Benny Hill the dog-faced boy the whole time, as he was doing his barking at the moon act...I thought that was disappointed if I instead came across as patient ;(
Pissing in the wind is foolish and unbecoming, but all too often people will keep on pissing until the wind changes course, then declare triumphantly that they have overcome the world.  Don't give the pissed off something to piss about, and don't give in to rhetoric that preaches to the choir.  As the ever wise-in-hindsight Admiral Ackbar once said: "It's a TRAP!"
It was obvious that your were as annoyed by Ben as Keith and I +Anthony DeTommasi  the patience I cite is your ability to continue to try to speak sense to someone who was obviously senseless and in no way open to new insights or knowledge.
+Benito Cue There's a difference between challenging someone's "beliefs" and challenging someone putting provable falsehood out there as fact. I'm not going to argue with someone about their favorite color or the existence of God. But I will argue with someone saying the sky is green because they've rewritten the definition of green.
Colonel Sanders? Why has he got a yellow beard? Chickens rights!
(mentioning Col Sanders and chicken again..cos it was missed first time, and it amused me...if nobody else.
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