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Radio silence from the NRA: The gun group's social media accounts have gone dark following the massacre at Sandy Hook School in Newtown, Conn.

What's your message for them?

(Photo by AFP/Paul J. Richards/Getty Images) #newtown   #sandyhook  
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Chuck D.
I'm a Texas Democrat. You won't be taking my gun rights. Just know that now. 
Arms are for hugging?   Lets see what you idiots say when you hear someone breaking in to a window or door of your house in the middle of the night?  Why don't you try and go hug whomever it is!
I don't think anyone wants your gun rights +Charles Daly . Most people on the side of gun-control are advocating for limitations on that freedom.  "OK Corral" is not sensible gun policy.
There are ways to protect yourself that don't require a gun.  Guns are equalizers for the weak.  Tote one and that's exactly what you're admitting...your weakness. 
Gun rights aren't going away. More strict rules may apply, especially in urban states but guns aren't gonna disappear people.
I think the NRA is doing the smart thing by waiting to see what all the findings present.  Unlike those on the pro gun control side making the case for their agenda less than 12 hours after the crime before any solid details were released. They will make a statement, you can be sure of that.  The reason they took their facebook page down is there is alot of people making irrational comments on both sides and they didn't want their facebook to be a medium for that type of negativity. 
Chuck D.
Let's just say this. If we are in a building together when one of these psychos show up randomly killing. While you are praying, panicking and crying . People like me exercising our 2nd amendment rights will be saving your lives. Not the police. 
Trying to remember the last time an armed vigilante rescued everyone from a murderous shooting spree.  I'm afraid the "cowboy hero" argument has little precedence to lean on.
Are guns the problem or is it that the people who are supposed to be caring for mental illness simply don't know what they're doing?  
I'd like to say: thanks for not politicizing a tragedy.
If Texans are so fired up about their "gun rights" we should give Texas back to Mexico and let them shoot at the drug barons. And if you need thirty rounds to shoot a deer, you need glasses more.
If you feel so powerless that you have to carry a gun, I think then you may be the one with the mental illness.
At least make them pay taxes, rather than let them claim they are a charitable organization.
All you need for a burglar coming in your house is an accurate revolver in a drawer. By the time you get to that Rambo Bazooka it's too late.
Outside of war, hunting and shooting sports, yes, powerlessness is the only reason to carry a gun.  Not sure I can think of any other reason.
Punishing the 99.99999% by passing unconstitutional legislation is not the answer.  Remember, our founding fathers are alot smarter than     any of those currently in office will ever be.  They can't even pass a budget.......
@Karlton. That is a very solid point that nobody pays much attention to.
"You don't understand the constitution or history".
You gotta do better than that +Neil Whiteman .  There are many here on both sides of the issue that understand the constitution quite well.
Why else would I pull a passage from it?
Defend your position rather than throw up your hands at logic you can't skate around.
@ William Katz. That doesn't make you any less insensitive.
Let's remember that ALL the GUNS that Nancy Lanza could not protect HER: She was murdered with her OWN GUNS. How many family members are killed with guns owned by family members?
The NRA are doing the smart thing, wait until the next grand final of American Idol before going public. Be sure thought they are sorting out the loose cannons in the GOP as well as working on a few democrats to switch sides. The NRA has deep pockets
Obama has a better chance of closing Guantanamo Bay than banning semi-automatic weapons.
+Karlton Little Perhaps because regardless of how many laws are in  place to completely ban or greatly limit the use of owning/carrying a gun, the people that REALLY want to have one, will have one.  When I say those that 'really' want to, I'm speaking of people that want to seek harm.  Guns are widely circulated on almost every market.  If the law abiding citizen gets their gun/defense taken away, how is a bat or any other weaponry going to save them with the person that comes after them with their illegal weaponry? 
No political will.  Politicians would rather sit silently and pray the next major incident doesn't happen during their term or in their district than face the ire of the NRA's lobby. 
There's big money in gun's and a lot of people want their gun's especially criminals, illegal owner's and scared people who return death to those that steal and make them fear
Obama once said that the south clings to guns and religion. He knows the score...
Interesting militia comment earlier Karlton.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you possess many of the freedoms and prosperity you currently have today by the actions of militia during the Revolutionary War?
+Jason Crawley I get that.  My thing is that doing something is better than throwing up our hands and saying, "Oh well...nothing's gonna change." when we already know from this nation's history that if we WANT something to change, we can and will do it. 
As it is right now, there's no willpower to make it happen. 
"WELL KILL THEM ALL AND LET GOD SORT IT OUT" is the moto i've allways heard in the south
+Karlton Little Right you's haters that keep the stall on the right to live a life with out dodging bullet's..i've been through that and now in the U.S.A i have to live it again?
+Karlton Little im weak because i carry a gun? how about this. my family live in an area in which there are a few crack heads. i keep a shotgun in my house just in case one of them breaks in. if a person with a crackhigh breaks in my house, i wanna have a weapon i can shoot him with because those "other means of protection" won't do the job. i can tell you this from personal experience that it just pisses that person off.
How many Catholic or Christian schools have been attacked? NONE! Maybe we need to put God back in our public schools.

Im an Alabama country boy and i'll be damned if they take my weapons. or try to control them.
the NRA rather keep guns than to save lives there needs to be gun control or the carnage will continue as well as mental health access! 
+Gordon Hitt never said my life was hard. its just a bit more dangerous than most. 
yea lets fight guns with guns and see more carnage honestly its like you people care more about guns than children..fucking gross!
We are talking about "Guns" again...What about these!!!
- Campus killing spree - with a bow and arrow type weapon (Wyoming)…
- China stabbing spree hurts 22 schoolchildren - World - CBC News…
 A weapon is a weapon!!!...and these sicko's are going to use anything they can get their hands on to hurt people. Terrorist use IED’s and fear!!! That is what is going on right now, and if we don’t characterizes these people as terrorists then shame on us!!!
 So if we concentrate on guns we are doing ourselves an injustice. If we can’t protect ourselves in these places where these people pray on (places where people are vulnerable and more than 99% unarmed) then shame on us again for trying to take away that right.
 We need to reflect on what is going on here…people are “not afraid” to do these atrocities and yet they turn around and “Kill Themselves” because - They "are" AFRAID of the Consequences!!!
nice try no one died in the china one!
and where has anyone went on a bow and arrow massacre??
+Jacob C. Adams i've seen war my friend and killing on mass and if some thing is'nt done soon i fear to see it here on the soil i love.all becuse people will not be responsibe gun owners
+Jay Powers i keep weapons in my house because i care about my little sisters. i keep them locked up in my gun cabinet. if someone breaks in my house or comes in my yard threatening my family, you best believe ill come out with my 12-gauge ready. know why? because i put my family before myself.
this is so true all these massacres didn't come from the black market you people fear about... it was actually legally purchased and registered to their gun owning parents??
+Gordon Hitt i understand where youre coming from and i appreciate your concern because there are irresponsible gun owners out there. i however keep my weapons locked up. with the ammo in a different safe. 
And i appreciate your service, Gordon
+Jacob C. Adams  I do not mean to come down on you so hard and for that i'll say "excuse me",I'm so mad because the shootings of late have been legal gun owners and when it boil's down too is Humans kill Humans not the gun
+Gordon Hitt, i agree with you and it is my opinion that you should have to get a psychiatric evaluation before you can even buy a weapon. or get licensed for one. or get a hunter's license. if this happens, not so many shootings like this would happen.
+Karlton Little smugly posted "Trying to remember the last time an armed vigilante rescued everyone from a murderous shooting spree.  I'm afraid the "cowboy hero" argument has little precedence to lean on."

You mean like this example that happened on the same day?

Citizen with CHL confronts masked gunman in Oregon mall. Once facing armed opposition gunman turns weapon on himself. Incident over. Doesn't quite fit into the ideology you're trying to sell, right?
we seriously need psychiatric exams for gun ownership. as well as check ins.
+Terry Mathews posted: "GFY DIAF GTFO"

It's nice to see that anti-gun folks are just as classy as ever. Especially since the NRA had nothing to with this incident whatsoever. The NRA and all its members are for responsible gun ownership. It's vicious hate mongering to insinuate otherwise. You are painting with a very wide brush +Terry Mathews that covers a huge segment of the population from all age, ethnic, social status, and political backgrounds.

I can fire back with something a lot more thought provoking because it's actually true. Gun control in the U.S. originated with Jim Crow laws that targeted blacks and were intended to make sure they remain defenseless against lynchings and mob justice. Historically speaking you are in very shady company pushing for gun control. To put it plainly, advocates of gun control are trying to deny their fellow citizens a basic civil right. It's despicable...
I'm all against violence, but the only reason, and possibly the strongest deterrent of the past Soviet invasion and Chinese invasion of US mainland is the prolonged fight with the armed US militia. The Chinese would most likely roll through California and NYC... But that's as far as they would go. It's not guns, but our society to blame... We worship materialism and belittle those who can't afford things.... Depression rules our country... And we don't bother to lend a helping hand. If we weren't so concerned about "us" we would be able to recognize the symptoms of a mass murderer. Did anyone forget what happened in Gaza or what's happening in Syria? 
It's naive for anyone or any politician to think they can actually stop such violence.  History has demonstrated it cannot be done.  Disarming populations doesn't work either.  Instead of having some lunatic affecting the lives of a few, you eventually end up with one in charge affecting the lives of many.  Creeps like Hitler, Gadaffi, Stalin, or as of late Bashar al-Assad come to mind.  This is why the founding fathers added the 2nd amendment   and this is why we must never change it.  Promoting a cohesive family with strong parenting and good values is the best possible solution.  And even then, it still won't stop every lunatic.  
I find it odd that Mexico has a very strict gun policy and there's so much gun violence. 1) every citizen is able to own specific calibers for specific reasons limited by the government. Home protection, hunting, and sports shooting. 2) Only specific people are allowed to carry firearms outside their house: military, police, private security. With such strict gun policy why is there so much gun violence? O' wait its more complicated than guns are bad and they only kill people. Let's look at the crimenal factor and how drugs fuel the need for criminals to arm themselves to exploit the people and government. Now if you are suggesting a background check on every gun sold and an official third party to oversee a transaction between two private citizens so as to curtail straw purchases (it wont stop) I'm with you. Crazy people will do crazy things, if the Chinese guy took an extra swing on every kid to get their throat it would of ended much worse. The intent to do harm is what we can never control only, we can only try to teach our kids that taking lives hardships on innocent people is downright evil. Yet there will be more who will try to harm others for money, property, jealousy, and misguided vengeance. Let's look at our treatment of disturbed individuals as much as we look at controlling the flow of guns to the wrong people.
The shooter was not an nra member, why not launch a cqmpaign against mental illness? He would fit such a club.
Every single day in America another 27 people die as a result of drunk drivers. Nobody is screaming ban alcohol. Because how dare anyone try and take away our right to enjoy a alcoholic bevrage. Well some of us are willing to stand up and fight for our right to bare arms to protect our families to protect our property. Yea it was a damn tragity what that sick evil prick done to those innocent children and there teachers and his own mother my heart goes out to there family and friends. Us gun owners shouldn't have to be categorized as evil vilans because of a bunch of ass holes who are sick minded. 
+Jay Powers the last bow and arrow attack left 3 dead on the 30th November 2012, Casper, Wyoming, Casper College
Just wanted you to know that Chicago has the strictest gun laws and they have the highest crime rate
MSNBC, you couldn't even report the situation correctly in the first place. At first you report that it was his brother, then you report that he shot his mom at the school, then you report that he shot his mom at home, I firmly believe your careless reporting of world events before all of the facts are in is going to end up seriously hurting someone. You can't even wait until the nation is done morning before you start playing politics and playing with the heartstrings of the American public. Those that have already started these knee jerk reactions should be ashamed of themselves. Any legislation made now would be seriously faulty and be full of emotion and could possibly. The government should wait until everyone has calmed down before doing anything. Did you ever think that the NRA was giving the nation time to mourn before releasing a statement on the subject? Probably not since you couldn't even have the decency to not interview children and plaster them all over the TV with microphones in their faces.
Maybe the NRA doesn't want to do what most people are criticized for and take a political stance "too soon."
Sounds noble of them if you ask me. 
Dont you dare lump me in with that crazy SOB.  I have never and will never use my gun for other than recreation or to protect my loved ones from asses like that.  You cant have my guns.
+Jay Powers he got them and killed his own mother with them. So to paint it like he was just handed these guns freely is premachure to say as the investigation is just underway. Someone Willing to kill their own family should never have a gun in their hands but would you like a psych test every six months by a legal official just to make sure your not a danger to the rest of society? How will we trully know who is the dangerous person planning in secret to do us so much harm. If people today willingly are registering their weapons with the state and federal government are we really supposed to fear them? Are they not following the laws dictated by were they live? Intent to do harm is almost impossible to see if the person is secluded, but hey let's take away our privacy i n our homes so as to make sure we are not planning anything bad.
Evan L
+Jacob C. Adams Hopefully you only use such deadly force when your life is threatened.
The guy wasn't holding an NRA flag people so why the hostility towards registered gun owners?
Charlton Heston answered the question posed by MSNBC today, in 1999:

"This cycle of tragedy-driven hatred must stop, because so much more connects us than that which divides us because tragedy has been, and will always be with us. Somewhere right now, evil people are planning evil things. All of us will do everything meaningful, everything we can do to prevent it, but each horrible act can't become an ax for opportunists to cleave the very Bill of Rights that binds us. America must stop this predictable pattern of reaction. when an isolated, terrible event occurs, our phones ring, demanding that the NRA explain the inexplicable. Why us? Because their story needs a villain. They want us to play the heavy in their drama of packaged grief. To provide riveting programming to run between commercials for cars and cat food.

The dirty secret of this day and age is that political gain and media ratings all to often bloom on fresh graves. I remember a better day, where no one dared politicize or profiteer on trauma. We kept a respectful distance then, as NRA has tried to do now. Simply being silent is so often the right thing to do. But today, carnage comes with a catchy title, splashy graphics, regular promos and a reactionary passage of legislation. Reporters perch like vultures on the balconies of hotels for a hundred miles around. Cameras jockey for shocking angles as news anchors race to drench their microphones with the tears of victims.

Injury, shock, grief and despair shouldn't be brought to you by sponsors. That's pornography. It trivializes the tragedy it abuses. It abuses vulnerable people, and maybe worst of all, it makes the unspeakable seem commonplace. And we're often cast as the villain. That is not our role in American society, and we will not be forced to play it."
I know we need to lock up all the guns and all the mentally disturbed individual and just get rid of them right?....MSNBC please stop trying to report the news and just go ahead and change your slogan and name to extreme democrat tv. Really your promos o. TV as if your part of the american solution is embarrassing since you get most of the facts wrong when you do report and not just spout your opinions again and again.
+Karlton Little So you've figured out a way to stop bullets and knives and rapists and muggers with your magical liberal powers? Would you mind sharing your techniques?
The teachers should have had guns
I blame schools for not allowing guns on campus
+Marco Solisruiz Liberals are hating on the NRA and gun owners because at the end of the day, playing the blame game is the only thing liberals know in order to cope with their own internalized ineptitude, incompetence, cowardice and failed social policies that led to the upbringing of a remorseless, amoral, soulless monster capable of murdering children.
+Almir Osmanovic your right a tragedy happens in the U.S. and we forget that even more horrors are occurring in other countries by their own state governments. Its all about the ratings and pushing a political agenda of their own.
There's a time and place for everything. Thanks MSNBC for reminding us of how the media's place is to immediately sensationalize whatever they can get their paws on to build up the hype and pit us against each other. God forbid we take a little time to grieve.
If all those teachers had a gun on them the kid would not have made it as far as he did
Stop criminals and mentally ill people from having access guns!
It was the Black Panthers who first used the second amendment as a basis of gun ownership, not the NRA. Banning high capacity clips does no good people would just pack more of them. Although there is the image of the OK Corral where everybody was packing and shoot outs where common there was very little gun violence in the old west. 
+Christi Whitfield how by taking away guns from everyone? How will we also solve the issue of bullying that can lead to an act of crime such as this or the suicide of child? Do we ban hurt full speech and mean videos online. How much are we willing give up on our constitutional rights because of some random acts of violence that falls short at the horrors in Syria? Is it that we are home in the U.S. that we must be 100% safe no one can guarantee that for us especially the government. This will happen again because we do not have a psychic to tell us wen someone is thinking of committing a crime.
+Arch san fran I take the defense of my home into my own hands, I am completely willing to die defending my loved ones. I realize that the police are fine when they're around but unless they're right outside my front door, they won't prevent a home invasion. I believe that guns are the single most significant source of personal power and most likely the only thing that has kept our government from turning into a despotic dictatorship overnight and am completely willing to die defending America if and when that day should come. Along with just owning a gun, I am completely willing to take upon myself the responsibilities and repercussions implied with ownership and use of a gun. You on the otherhand apparently despise guns, gun owners and would rather cower under your bed and hope that the authorities arent sleeping if and when something like a home invasion happens, on top of that you hide behind the anonymity of the internet to spew your hatred of people like me. Now, why am I a coward, exactly?
I specifically said stop criminals and mentally ill people from having access to guns. I didn't say take guns away from everyone. I am pro guns. READ. :-)
d so
Thats great +Charles Daly because while you are drawing all the gunfire to your own badass self, I'll be sneaking out the back calling the coroner for your carcass.
First and most likely to die in a gunfight = other guy with gun. 
Why is it that people just wont get it? CRIMINALS HAVE GUNS AND ALWAYS WILL!!! Stop trying to take rights away from law abiding citizens just to make yourself feel better when having this conversation at your local starbucks. We call the police in an emergency why? Because they have guns. Why do they carry guns? CRIMINALS HAVE GUNS. Stupid! 
no guns = they have guns.. not smart hug deeez nutts
Now that I've ranted a bit. Nobody wants a wild west atmosphere. If being weak is what some people want to call gun ownership then so be it. For me its peace of mind. Whats worse taking the life of a dirtbag criminal in self defense or watching your wife and children be attacked or worse while you sit helpless. I hope that never happens to anyone ever but its not a chance as a husband or father im willing to take. If that makes me a coward or weak then I guess oh well so be it
+Karlton Little armed vigilante, no but 2 such cases exist in aurora colorado in the year before some piece of shit shot up a theater. each event barely made local news. concealed carry can save lives, however not everyone should be allowed to carry a gun or in a lot of cases even own one. background checks should be more extensive and you should be required to prove you have the means to secure weapons once you have them. also a clean bill of mental health would be nice but hard to prove. i grew up in california, with some of the strictest gun laws in the country and i have had a gun pointed at me 4 times. gun laws dont erase the guns. harsher laws on illegally obtaining guns or carrying a gun with the numbers scratched off may help a little.    
and for the record i do not support the NRA. I do support the second amendment but lobby groups may start with good intentions and lose their path down the line.
The problem is not the NRA or the liberal attack on the constitution, the problem is how much time the media spends plastaring the killers face and details all over the media, for a mentally unstable person who feels like he has nothing to loose, that 5 minutes of fame he is going to get is all he wants. Stop the sensational reporting of such news, turn those people into nothing and watch how nothing happens.
I support half of the Second Ammendment. I'll pick and choose which parts to recite and which to ignore. Anything regarding a Well Regulated Militia can be thrown out, since clearly the Framers didn't know what they were talking about. Also, Amendments can't ever be changed, which is why alcohol is still illegal in the United States following the Eighteenth Ammendment. 
does it have to take not everyone has right to bear arms for example the crazies
I am not a member of the NRA. However i do believe that something has to be done to safeguard the innocent  people from these assault guns.  ban all assault weapons, do no let anyone buy body armor, etc unless they are police or security .  I also belive that background checks need to be made  on anyone wanting to buy a gun.. i have hunted for years and am a responsible gun owner.. its a shame there is no  shared database on a persons mental capacity with regards to obtaing a gun
People, any new guns laws proposed by the congress, will never pass, because due the NRA. So people don't get paranoid, our second amendment right is protected. 
Repeal the Second Amendment. It's that simple.
+Chris Pitchford and then everyone is going to turn their guns in? this is the part i want to know and nobody can answer me. how do we safely remove all the guns from america?
+William Nichol you mean they don't get up and kill you and your neighbors in the middle of the night all on their own? astounding! 
Remember people, guns don't kill people, it people kill people. It similar to cars. So people please support NRA. 
Lol... no one can grasp reality in this generation.... please tell me how many people were slaughtered during WWII? No doubt this child shooting is very very sad. But lets realize that just because we have Sesamie Street and smart phones does not change the fact that we are still human... we act on sometimes irrational thoughs that to some seem tame yet to others seem inhumane! I will guarantee 2 things. Guns are here to stay... and ... guns are here to stay... please pick up a history book! This issue will guns will never go away... because maybe... just maybe.. the guns are not the actual issue... please dig a little deeper into the human psych and see that there is a lot more to what makes a human pull a trigger.... ..and when you find out what exactly that is .. may then point your finger!
unstable jackasses kill people with guns. if their were a way to keep guns out of the hands of unstable jackasses it would be fantastic. how about rather that bitching back and forth about bullshit left vs right slogans, people actually think of some ways we might solve some of these problems?
Simple way to keep guns out of anyone's hands: make private ownership of guns illegal. Done.
In the long run, more children will suffer if you abolish or limit the right to bear arms. 

Governments have perpetrated the greatest atrocities in history. Witness the Second World War, the Holocaust, the Holodomor, the Great Leap Forward, the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, the Killing Fields if the Khmer Rouge and so forth. 

If you make governments the sole possessors of coercive force, it results in harm to humanity on a grand scale! Unchecked governments cause colossal pain and harm that dwarfs the pain and harm caused by individuals. 

I know that this seems abstract, and the pain in Newtown is immediate, but we must keep long-term vision. 
The average American has never even read the constitution let alone understand that the rights conferred by it are not absolute. The right to bear arms should be viewed in the context of our times, not in the context of 18th century America - a time when a newly independent country needed an armed militia to ensure that the fledgling democracy that was America could defend itself against both internal and external threats to its existence. Our gun culture produces the highest rate of both accidental and intentional deaths in the world and yet we are paralyzed to make changes because we are hostage to a mindset of extremism in the face of overwhelming statistics that shows there is no correlation between gun ownership and overall safety. Ignorance is keeping us from having a real debate that could lead to changes that would serve us better as a nation. 
The fantasies of gun fetishists who think that their .223 is going to save them from a Bradley or 50-cal are sad. Just pathetic.
+Chris Pitchford are you being serious or trying to get a rise out of someone? do you happen to know how many guns are in the country? how do you suppose we find them all? how would you handle the issue of getting the guns away from the home owners and innocent families that dont want to give them up? better yet how do we get all the already illegal guns off the streets and out of the hands of gang bangers and drug dealers? this is the type of conversation that should be taking place. 
+Chris Pitchford I bet you thought the best way to address campaign finance was to pass a law. Laws have complex unintended consequences, like those of McCain Feingold. That resulted in super PACs. Outlawing guns will eventually result in an unchecked government, and unchecked government atrocities. 
When the AR breaks, and you can't buy a replacement, it's confiscated. Thankyewverymuch!
Good-bye, NRA! Your bloody hands will never wash clean!
America made by free by guns held by the public and will stay free as long as guns are held by the public
NRA will never die. its as much american as the apple pie and baseball 
I guess if the US Army starts wearing red coats and using barrel-loaded muskets....
+John Wildman you don't need a "God“ to know you shouldn't kill someone. Yes let's blame this all on the video games and cartoons that's easier than taking responsibility. 
+Jonathan Cubas Thats what the brits thought in 1770s look where that went. Also the Japs kept from completely invading us because of that look at Yamamoto's quote. Besides We're americans we need to kill in defense of our homes and families we'll find away.  Not to mention our perfect guerrilla territory all over the country. 
+Chris Pitchford Sweet plan. so we just wait a hundred years or so for all the guns to break and hope and pray that civilians don't figure out a way to make simple parts to replace the broken ones? how about the ak-47? they really don't break down often and if they do the parts for them are very easy to reproduce. how about illegal import? drugs are illegal and im pretty sure i could walk across the street and find some. I mean no disrespect when i say this but, could you actually put some thought into some of this stuff and respond seriously? I actually want to have a serious conversation about gun control solutions and all you have produced can be compared to school kids saying nyanya. it makes the people pushing for serious gun control reform look bad when you do that.
Guns have been in this country since the time it was settled. So why is it only in recent history that we have a problem with "gun violence". What has changed? The function of a gun has not changed, just the technology. So if guns have not changed, it must be the society that has suffered some sort of moral decay.

My heart aches because of what happened in Connecticut. I also realized that an evil/broken person will do horrible things and they probably will choose to use a gun to do them. Another realization is that a good/sane person can choose to use a gun to defend and protect themselves and others. The gun is just an instrument. Taking it away will force the evil person to find another way to cause harm. However it will severely limit the good person's ability to defend themselves. Is there an easy answer? No. If you are going to have freedom and liberty you have to accept that people are going to do bad things sometimes. 
Guns have changed. Access to guns have changed. And the NRA is nothing but a profit mongering lobbying group with blood on its hands.
We the people should never give up our arms.  They have and will keep us free
+Jonathan Cubas Americans of conscience would need more than hand guns and hunting rifles. Assault rifles would have more effect. This is why it is necessary to avoid the slippery slope of banning certain kinds of guns. Cell phones and social media would be needed too. 
Our ability as citizens to wage war is actually very good assuming some co-operation and a good brain.  We have the morale and the will.  
+Tommy Turner What has changed in this country is the media's desire to make government bigger. 

This msnbc post is a good example. They clearly have a pro-government antigun agenda. 
+Chris Pitchford rambled: "Repeal the Second Amendment. It's that simple." and "Simple way to keep guns out of anyone's hands: make private ownership of guns illegal. Done."

Man, I'm dying here laughing... where do you come up with this stuff? <wipes tears of laughter> Oh, you were serious? Dude, you are one deluded individual. Go right ahead and start a campaign to repeal the 2nd Amendment, we'll see how far that little project will go. Wake me up when you have a bill in the House that has a snowball's chance in hell passing...
+Chris Pitchford you are making yourself look stupid. and now you are directly insulting the people you are trying to convince that we need change. do some actual research before you start spouting off bullshit on the internet. once again, you are making the people you support look bad and you should stop.
+Chris Pitchford access to guns have changed, it has become more difficult to purchase a firearm. Do you think when this country was still being settled that you had to get a background check or show identification to get a firearm. People used to wear gun belts when they walked down the street. If you want to carry a firearm now you have to get a permit, and that is even if your state will allow it. So spare me the "access to guns outrage". Society is more degenerate now than it was a hundred years ago. 
+Chris Pitchford and your point? I'm aware of the Amendment process so my comment was and is valid. You don't have a chance to get 2/3 of the House or the Senate to repeal the 2ndA. Nor could you get a national convention called by 2/3 of the States to repeal the 2nd. Checkmate. But don't let that stop you from chasing the dream!
Someone needs to read history: 100 years ago was not the golden age of gunslingers—only in Hollywood westerns did people ever live like that. 

BTW, The NRA spent $11 million in the last election but only got a 1% rate of return where their money was spent on a winner. It's history!
just because someone has a different point of view that yours doesnt mean you should be a douche about it. I find it funny how people who want less guns in the USA are the crazy ones. maybe we should start sending are kids to school with guns I mean i would feel safer. what about you?
+Chris Pitchford how is what you just said there relevant? also it was 11.8 million. can you seriously answer any of my questions? just say no if you cant. there is no shame, they are hard questions.
your right to bear arms is killing our country!
+David Golden  OK, I give you the point about keeping the dialog respectful and believe it or not I'm not trying to be a "douche" but come on, repealing the 2nd Amendment? That's crazy talk. Even the leading anti-gun people/organizations do not call for that or even talk about it. Someone saying something like that seriously warrants some ridicule because let's face it they're probably just trolling. I don't think anyone advocated arming the kids, at least not sane people.
Not the country just people in malls, at the movies, kids at school...
+Jonathan Cubas What we could do would be too assume a guerrilla mindset then slowly capture nec. equipment or at least kill enough of them to get them to consider leaving us be.
Here's a helpful tip for those curious about government in the US: Any amendment can be further amended or changed. The Second Amendment has become a burden and the US is better off without it. And say good-bye to the NRA, while we're at it, because they're just a bunch of profiteers with blood on their hands.
+Chris Pitchford I could send you literally fifty + pages of armed citizens protecting themselves and their family.  So get some facts before rambling like a child.
Look +David Golden here's the bottom line: guns are not the problem. And if you think they are, with all due respect, you haven't given the issue some serious thought. I suggest reading this article which is the first one I've seen since the tragedy to actually address the fundamental underlying problem, mental illness:
Guns are as much of the problem as mental illness. And the problem with guns is also the fetishizing of killing people in the name of heroism! Remember, 62 mass killings in 30 years in the US and not one was stopped by an armed civilian!
The word for attacking the Constitution of the United States is? Think about the cliff your getting ready to jump off people. when one right is gone all others fall. Checks and balances people... Lets Morn, lets not do something we'll live to regret. 
Let's repeal the Second Amendment: it's time.
+Chris Pitchford OK we read it the first three times you posted and it still doesn't sound any less crazy. Why don't you go ahead and repeal the 1st Amendment too while you're at it? What the hell, just go for broke and get rid of the Bill of Rights altogether...
here is the deal no one needs a AR-15. they are bad ass and fun to shoot but really if you want to shoot one join the army. you can take it everywhere you go.Got no problems with hand guns just as long as we do a better job of how people get them. you shouldn't be allowed to buy guns online. only local stores. 
+Jonathan Cubas Never heard of the movie.  What i have done is assumed the worse and think out what could we do.  I can take you to a place thats perfect for guerrilla warfare.  Big enough to raise a good sized force small enough not to be noticed. 
Sounds good: if you love guns, join the Army! That seems clear. But it seems that some people don't know the difference between the first and second amendments to the US constitution. They are (for those wanting to know) completely different.
18.25 are killed in a shooting whne the gunner is taken care of by police.  2.2 are killed when taken care of by a armed citizen.  And gun control is a good idea because...
facts and research from Harvard university ~ .

"For Australia, the NFA seems to have been incredibly successful in terms of lives saved.  While 13 gun 
massacres (the killing of 4 or more people at one time) occurred in Australia in the 18 years before the 
NFA, resulting in more than one hundred deaths, in the 14 following years (and up to the present), 
there were no gun massacres."
What gave the Nazi's the control to load people up into cattle cars and march them into gas chambers? The  Lack of the people to stop it. 
Uh-oh, a variant of Godwin's law has hit this thread. Good night folks!
WOW! I didn't get that from google! Do you want more data or would that
upset you realizing your wrong?
+David Golden Let me illuminate the problem from a different angle that you might be more in tune with. (I just thought of this after writing the jab about repealing the 1st Amendment.) So, inevitably there will be calls similar calls from other people to take a serious look at violence in our culture to try and reign in these massacres. It seems you are a gamer and enjoy BF3, so how would you like people calling for a total ban on all violent content in media? No more movies, no more video games, no more songs with edgy lyrics, only Government approved benign content. Sounds good? How about some people taking it even further and calling for the repeal of the 1st Amendment since the Government cannot legally control content unless the 1st was repealed. Are you liking it so far? Would it be worth it to lose your freedom of free speech so that no one can utter a phrase or publish works of art that might upset anybody, all in the name of preventing something that is caused by mental illness in the first place. Catch my drift?

So, let's say we achieved this utopian "perfect" future, and the United States of America we know today is no more. No more 1st or 2nd Amendments. Needless to say, massacres like this latest one could and still would happen just the same. You cannot legislate evil out of existence, but you can go too far giving up rights that will never be restored. Just think about it...
we as U.S. citizens have the right not to be shot. Especially innocent babies! When the founding fathers came up with the right to bear arms, they probably didn't foresee this magnitude of the problem for "todays" society.
+Rick Simmons 18.25 people die in a mass murder sit. when police deal with it. 2.2 when an armed citizen takes matters in their hands.  
 Your statement just proved they were a hell of a lot smarter then you. read their own words. You'll see they did.
+Charles May Tag people when you talk because nobody has any idea who you are talking to.  Also talk in complete sentences.
+Matthew Wilson Frist off BF3 wasn’t made to kill people! Guns are made to kill! 2nd I’m not saying you shouldn’t be able to own guns but no one needs assault rifles. Hand guns, shotguns, hunting rifles are one thing. Also comparing things made for entertainment to weapons made to kill not the same thing. You should know that. Next time make a better point. 

You can’t say what we have now is working. Because it’s not something needs to change and it will. We can’t keep acting like this is ok and just blame the crazies. We are crazy for thinking we can let people own assault rifles in a modern society and expect things like this to not happen.
In 2004, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences released its evaluation from a review of 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications, and some original empirical research. It failed to identify any gun control that had reduced violent crime, suicide, or gun accidents. The same conclusion was reached in
2003 by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control’s review of then-extant
There is a solution where you can keep the guns.Increase the price of bullets to $1,000 each, or better still - BAN THE BULLET. Make it mandatory for all private gun holders to hand in their bullets. The Constitution doesn't say anything about the right to bear bullets, so people's rights won't be violated.
Stephen. the 2nd amendment says or restrict.  I wounder what that may cover?
+David Golden  But BF3 is a violent game, it's all about shooting and killing and destroying. (Keep in mind this is not my argument but people are already making these statements all over the web.) So, yes it is seen by many as yet another one of an endless stream of violent content polluting the minds of young people and triggering the massacres. So, in that sense and for the people who are making this argument BF3 and games like it are precisely made to desensitize and train people for violence.

Also, you keep talking about assault rifles so apparently you have no idea that they are not legal in this country unless you have a Class III license. Not to mention that the shooter used handguns so why are you even bringing up assault rifles? Unless you have a Class III license and about $30k of free cash sitting in the bank you have no hope of ever obtaining one. They are very expensive you know. I might also bring to your attention that the number of crimes committed with legally owned assault rifles is damn near zero. Statistically insignificant. This is partially because there are very few in private hands and no new ones can be made or sold, and the owners are under severe licensing and inspection requirements by the BATFE (i.e. Class III license).

And finally, you said "handguns, shotguns, and hunting rifles are one thing" but the 2nd Amendment has nothing to with hunting. It's not about target shooting either.
not outlaw guns but change how deal with guns. if not for a few crazy people gay people would be able to marry. so welcome to america. 
+Charles May I have and i know that America was made free by gun owning citizens and that Hitler degunned Germany before he let his insanity take over.  Not to mention that Japans best commander was afraid of our gun owning citizens.  
+Charles May Oh and did i mention many,many,many cases of guns protecting people.  Also remember to tag people.
The second amendment wasn't created for allowing hunters to hunt, we must never forget that. All great empires begin their fall into oppressive government control after disarming their citizens. Our founding fathers realized this do we think we are smarter than they were?
hey um Mick. check back over the blog. I think were getting frindly fire her.
Most fourth graders have more formal education than half the founders. So... yes. Yes I do think I'm smarter than they, +Stephen Ross . :)
So you think formal education is more important than life experience?
+Michael Brokate my daddy use to say.educated idiots. when describing a collage grad. Real world and formal education have value. After all, if you can read the blue print but lack the skill to weld the beam. what happens?
Wow, smarter than the framers of the constitution' idiot and what is wrong with this country today. Never in history has there ever been a document as well thought out as our constitution, and you are extremely lucky if you are an American. +Aabra Jaggard and if you are not get the hell out.
+Matthew Wilson Well is clear that you have no idea what you’re talking about or what I even said. Seeing as BF3 doesn’t teach people how to kill.  It’s a game made for people 17 years old and up. What people let their kids do is not my fault. Also the killer used an AR-15 which is an assault rifle. Based on the M16.  Just go to your local Wal-Mart or sporting goods store and you can buy a semi-auto assault rifle they are about $650 - $800. (here any ways) so yeah if you’re talking about full auto or a burst fire then you may be right I’m not sure on that. So once again I will say this in bold this time. No one needs a semi-auto assault Rifle! I don’t care what the 2nd Amendment says. There is no need for them to be owned my people outside the military. This takes me back to my main point times are changing. Gun laws are going to be changing and the assault weapons ban needs to come back.
Derek M
Save the world. Stop liberals!
in canada we also have a right to arms. but not in public. to obtain my firearms permit i had to pass a safety exam and have a police record check and wait more than 8 weeks
How many times does this need to be said a semi-auto assault rifle is no different than a semi-auto hunting rifle or a semi-auto handgun at close range they can all do as much damage.
despite all the failstops in canada.. i owned a firearm before i had a permit. obtained by legal means. controlling guns is not the answer. mental heath reform is.
+Stephen Ross not true. there is different between a 9mm and a .223 round. your still dead but damage not even close.
in canada concealed weapons is forbidden. so are automatics. rifles are legally limited to 3in the mag 1 in chamber. 
Not true, 223 high powered round but even a a hollow point from a 9 mil is designed to sray in the body, flatten out, expand and do as much damage as possible. In the end, on a child makes no difference.
Lets not forget, freedom comes with responsibility, if you want to live in a free country. You have to be responsible. This killers mom was not responsible.
Freaking tree huggers wanna get rid of guns, the only thing that will do is unarm Americans that have the right too have guns, don't they realize that the criminals well still get there hands on weapons no matter what! I mean look at mexico! Look at the massacres going on over there, they ban weapons but the criminals still have them, if we ban weapons in America we might as well move to Mexico
I'm sitting here in the (relatively) peaceful country of Norway wading through all this craziness (and some common sense) and wondering whether there's a point in joining the discussion or not. I don't really think there is.

But I will say this:

I don't think most Americans realise how crazy this all looks from the perspective of, well, most of the rest of the "civilized" western world. I will never get the American fetish for violence, lethal weapons, killing, death, war and everything military. It's downright scary, and it's making you a danger not only to the rest of the world, but to yourselves!
I see these comments of people who fear guns and those who fear that their guns will be taken away. The point of the matter is that guns don't have a mind of their own to kill people its just unstable people who have them are the killers. If they didn't have the gun, surely they may be able to find another way to kill. Surely the kid with the gun who killed all those in CT was very mentally unstable, so I really think that mental evaluations should be done quarterly for those who have them legally, this would not solve the problem all the way but it is a start.
+Keith McClean you're a Google + tough guy. Don't personally attack me please. It's uncalled for. 
I'm sick and tired of the NRA bastardizing the 2nd Amendment to suit their crazy need to prepare to "Rise Up" against our own government.  Why would the founding fathers give their lives to create a new country - then amend the constitution to say... "Oh, and by the way, you can use guns to bring us down."  Let's get real, people.  My new slogan: GO AWAY NRA!  You're not as powerful as you think you are - and we're all starting to realize that.
+Jeremy Tregler 
How do you know the mother bought a $1500 boy toy and shoved it under her bed?  My guess is she got it in the divorce settlement and was such a total b!tch that she drove one man to leave her and another to shoot her in the face before going on a violent rampage to make "everyone pay"..
+Stephanie Hoover 
Educate yourself: In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia
the reason no one has attacked us is because they know if they try and they try and take over they will fail because all of the people who have guns in the USA will fight back and win
take a breath, then go back up the thread to read +Sean Mason 's post.  SPOT ON.  Rather than get all freaked out and emotional about one's arsenal or lack there of, maybe we could inject a little context and history to the conversation.  
As a professional historical researcher I am quite well educated.  And you are someone who should be evaluated by the authorities if you own guns and approve shooting the "Bitch" in the face.  Good god.  I hope you live NOWHERE near me.  You're wacky.
+Stephanie Hoover 
We both live in the same world and probably the same country.  Burying your head in the sand and calling me a wacko doesn't change a thing, it just provides you with a false sense of security because you didn't address the issue which is that I refuted your "militia" argument with a decision handed down by the SC.
evaluated by the authorities i hope you don't live near me STEPHANIE HOOVER
+David Baker No worries on any comments you post.  This is all just entertainment to divert myself from buckling down and getting work done. ;0)
+Stephanie Hoover Actually, I do believe the Framers intended that the populace have the means to overthrow the government if it ever gets out of control, or as bad as England was. In the context of history, an armed populace was as powerful as the government at that time. This is clearly no longer the case, as military training and hardware has evolved beyond anything Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Jefferson could have imagined. Three hicks with AK-47s can't compete with the National Guard for any longer than a few days.

Still, we have seen a massive erosion of our rights with the Patriot Act, and we didn't overthrow the government with guns. Things here are not bad enough to get to that point.

Lastly, my point about the ridiculous argument that because the 2nd Ammendment is in the Constitution, it cannot be changed. I had invited people to comment on he 18th Ammendment, which prohibited alcohol. We decided that was a bad idea, and added the 21st Ammendment, which ended Prohibition.

My point is that the Constitution is a living document, and it can be changed to suit the times. If the 2nd Ammendment is antiquated, let's throw it out. It wouldn't be the first time we've done that. There is a precedent.
+Boo Gers You did nothing to shoot down my argument.  I stand by the opinion that the 2nd Amendment has been bastardized.

I don't know where you live that you believe you need guns to protect yourself from... well... whomever that might be... but I feel sorry for you.
one person did an aweful thing why make the other millions of gun oweners lose their rights
One person does an awful thing about every seven weeks in this country. Why should the rest of us lose our rights to life and liberty so others can keep their weapons? What is more valuable - a family member, or a weapon?
family is important i dont think you can compare guns and family but guns were not responsible for the shooting the gunman was. If you take away the guns bad people will still get their hands on them. +Jeremy Tregler your being illogical.
The gunman was no threat without his gun, therefore, the gun was still part of the problem. Your bumper sticker slogan is cute, but still wrong. Bad people will get their hands on them, fine. I want them to have to work a whole lot harder to do it.
What does it matter to him if he has to work harder to do it. Also on another note the NRA took down the facebook page and other resources to stop arguing that was getting out of hand. +Jeremy Tregler Also how can people go hunting? I doubt you do but should people just throw rocks?!?! Granted I see a much smaller use for some handguns but I think Americans should still be able to own them.
Laura B
Statistics show that if you own a gun the one most likely to be hurt or killed by it is you or someone in your family.  To these people who say they want more concealed weapons to be carried by private citizens for protection:  When was the last time you knew or heard of anyone successfully stopping a gun attack on them because they carried their own?  Oh sure, we should all carry more concealed weapons...  Because it worked so well for everyone's safety in the old Wild West. We should certainly regress back to that time.  Just brilliant. -_-
Nobody is really calling for a total ban, so yes, guy, hunters can still use their guns.

If you stand on the side of loose gun regulations, then you stand with the person that killed those children on Friday.
I am not in favor of concealed weapons but I think people should still be able to own guns. +Laura B Yes but most of those guns are not legally purchased and registered, which adds to my other arguement. Please comment the link to these statistics also.
I do not stand with the killer and most are saying they do want a total ban on guns other than police and military.
tee dee
well sorry to say my nephew was killed ... Shot close range it was a random act a 15yr thinking he was god....the weapon he used they said he shot my nephew 4 times but because the weapon that was used it turned out too be 8 shots...,.my nephew was walking to the store for my sis I guess the boy was to join a gang thought he would be an easy target I guess he was be -cause he took his life ... the point is this was a gun from the black market it was consider to be high powered gun of somesort sis fought with women agings gun violence...... but her too would soon join her son she passed some years after sudden... Not sure if she could live with the fact this lil asshole that killed her son would be out with less then ten years the moral behind this I used too tell her it's not the guns it's the Kids are whomevers environment...... maybe withdrawn are trouble when you see this don't ignore it ? Your kids are anyone you think maybe feeling distance there sign's before this happen's I'm sure because there thinking to hard to plan this out you can see them more withdrawn........ when ppl are giving the opportunity rather it be the wrong one an think there able to get away with it they will trust me.....I think anyone that's evil an wants to kill they'll find away this world has more hate then love are caring for one another.........I say if there is are isn't no god we need something to teach that helps explain why? Life is very important to live an love 
My condolences go to your nephew but the gun wasn't legal which is what I am saying. Guns should be able to be purchased. Illegal guns are bad
How could they take away the guns anyway have role turn them in? They only know about the registered ones. The problem is the ones that aren't registered

The problem is not only unregistered weapons. The guns used on Friday were registered to the shooter's mother.
tee dee
do you no in California the gangs an criminals out number the productive ppl... Example my oldest son was leaving off to school couple of his friends got together an went to the movies to celebrate an when they left some guys pull along side an put a gun to my sons face ask why? I was upset at my son for god no what i guess scared i barley can think straight at that moment . My sons xgirlfriend young school teacher with a couple guy friends sitting in the car shot in the head an the list can go on my sons cousin was ambushed in daylight this guy had a high powered assault weapon he was a very thin kid when they I'd him they said his body was riddled you can barley make him out an I'm sure this wasn't a store bought weapon.......hell here the police killed a few unarmed ...... heck I no its a lot of us parents I hate to say at fault I've always told my sons no blood will be on your hands an as a single parent it's hard raising two but it is my duty to make them learn to respect others an there space fix a problem are figure a solution I always told them never think you problem is always greater we all have them an always think there's a better tomorrow no mater how bad things may look an never play god that is an will never be a position for mankind too feel... I rather you care for most are all then hate few........
National Rifle Association. They advocate for gun rights - typically, they lobby for fewer restrictions to owning and using guns.
+Karlton Little Actually it does.  Lets view common sense.    Which is more likely  Shooting unarmed people or shooting armed? Cowards don't fight people who can fight back.  Even when they are insane. 

Once again 18.25 people die when police take mass murder sit.s. 2.2 when a armed citizen.  Logic would say KEEP GUNS  and reduce death tolls by 16.5!  Stay strong NRA
+Tracy Page I'm seeing that one other common factor among those incidents is a lack of a free and open Press, which is also guaranteed by our Constitution. Do you honestly think that could happen here? If so, you're nuts.
+Jeremy Tregler But if the people had guns do you really think the governments going to declare a war on its own people and spend money killing them?
Sorry +Michael Brokate but I'm not buying the "arm everybody" solution.  I don't see that as common sense at all. 

I understand that trying to disarm everybody in this country isn't going to fly, but I think guns should really be EXTREMELY difficult to get your hands on just because of their intended purpose.
+Karlton Little Did i say arm everybody? No.  Dont put words in my mouth, its not polite.  But don't make i hard for me to use the guns I have.  And by the way once one rule on guns gets passed its starts a roll.  Otherwise i would support SOME gun control rules.
Bo Jers
+Jeremy Tregler I believe an entire pie can be eaten 1 bite at a time...that doesn't mean it will happen overnight, but over time.
+Michael Brokate Who is "the government" anymore? We live in a virtual oligarchy. Rounding people up for extermination basically benefits nobody, unless you can imagine a scenario with even a hint of reality baked in.
+Michael Brokate , if you would support SOME rules, then I think vocalizing those ideas would be a good start. 

Right now, if you mention anything about limiting the availability of firearms to anybody, you get dogpiled on by people who view their own government as the enemy (not lumping you into this group but for example, +Tracy Page just gave us a list of the most reprehensible massacres in history as if he fears that's going to happen here.)  I've got a little more faith in Americans than that...guns or no guns.

I just think there's a sensible middle ground to be found. 
As it is right now, these incidents lead me to believe that we've got a ways to go before we're really grown enough to have fewer limitations on firearms.
+Jeremy Tregler The Government: The lesser of two evils elected to lead the people.  America will fall sooner or later.  no nation lasts forever.  It may not be soon it may be within the next couple generations but we will fall.  My point with saying that is AMERICA WILL NOT FALL FROM FOREIGN HANDS MILITARILY.  We will be taken over from within.  We are to proud and strong to be taken militarily.  And when we are taken by the enemy it will because they fought from the inside.  If my country bans my guns now what will i do later when i'm in danger?
Bo Jers
+Karlton Little There is no middle ground, you will eat my whole pie one bite at a time.  It doesn't matter that "this time" it's only about magazine capacity, or tracking ammo sales, or just assault weapons, because your appetite for my pie is insatiable.
Sorry +Boogie ggerss , but again, I've got more faith in Americans than that. 
You were made to put on a seatbelt by haven't been asked to wear full body armor and a helmet in your car yet, have you?  Yours is a hypothetical of pure speculation.
Bo Jers
+Karlton Little Go try to buy a car without airbags....I remember when they were an optional expense, now you don't have a choice.  You have faith because you can't see the big picture.
+Boogie ggerss , if you can't make an argument without trying to suggest someone doesn't have your awesome vision then please, just refrain from responding. 

Airbags are standard because the industry determined that people wanted them, not because the law dictated that they put them in. 
+Jeremy Tregler Not tracking...  But what am i to do if a criminal enters my house with a gun? Threaten him with calling the police so they can take pictures of my dead body?
I've lived in the suburbs of Chicago for 31 years. My family has been in this area for over 100. Not once has a criminal entered our home with a weapon. We lock the doors, and we take our chances. We also work for social justice to be sure there are no criminals, not leave entire populations to defend themselves and then shoot them when they steal to feed their families or their addictions. Let's cure the problem, not treat the symptom.
Get a damn alarm if you are scared.  Not an arsenal idiot.  If you dont want an alarm then get a pit bull.  
+Jeremy Tregler would you like me to sned you the fifty plus pages of citizens young (13) to old (70s) using guns against criminals? Not to mention i've also been in Chicago so dont go there.
I said it before WAAAY up thread, if you're not hunting with it, in the military, or participating in shooting sports, the only reason to have a gun is fear. 
I'm not scared enough to need a gun yet...and I've walked some of the worst neighborhoods and housing projects in this nation.
+Karlton Little I do hunt with it and your wanting to make it harder when i want to upgrade or get my son a gun so he can join me.  Thanks for advocating less father son time for rural families like mine.
+Michael Brokate If you want, go ahead and send me your propaganda. It's not going to change my mind. I'm actually fine with you owning a gun, since statistics prove you're more likely to die from it one way or another. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
+Michael Brokate That's bullshit and you know it. If you want to get a hunting license and proper hunting rifle, you would still be able to do so. You don't believe that would change, you're just making shit up to try and prove whatever point you're trying to make. If you have to fill out a few more forms, then do it. Or if that's too hard for you, don't. It's still your choice.
+Karlton Little so when the intruder breaks un your going to have enough time to get your machette and if he's armed with a gun kill him before he gets you? unlikely.

+Jeremy Tregler If i die by gun it will be defending my God, Country or family and i wont mind that. Oh filling out some forms is all? no there would be background checks training and age limits. it would get to the point where its more expensive to hunt than just buying something from the store. If you can't see that sorry.   
+Michael Brokate , if an intruder is busting into your house gangbusters then unless you're hanging out with your family in the living room with your gun locked and loaded, it doesn't matter what kind of defense you're using...he's got the drop on you and the game is over. 

If he's trying to sneak in in the middle of the night, the machete is ready silently waiting for him to peruse the home.  I don't have to have a line of sight or expose my position. If he enters the room gun first, his hand is mine.  Head first...well...

My digs are fairly modest.  No open foyers to navigate...just some rooms and hallways.  Quite frankly, I could defend my home with a sharpened pencil if that's all I had.
Laughing out loud @ advocating less father and son time.  C'mon +Michael Brokate , use your imagination man.  Taking your boy hunting is an awesome way to hang out with your kid, but if you can't pass whatever requirements might hypothetically exist to get him his own gun then just take him fishing!  Ride bikes.  Play some hoops. 
I hope that was satire because I really did laugh! LOL
+Michael Brokate Oh, get off the God bit. "Thou Shall Not Kill" is a Commandment. "Turn the other cheek" is a lesson from Christ. Religion teaches pacification, not violent escalation. I'll listen to any other reason, but "God" is not at all valid in this discussion. Right or wrong, only God has the authority to take a life.

And yes. Background checks. Training. Forms. ID. It's called accountability. What kind of lessons are you teaching your son if it's easier to kill a man with a gun than legally drive a car to Church?
Bo Jers
+Karlton Little Don't attack my person because something as simple as an airbag proved you don't have the foresight of an auto mechanic.
You see, genius, I didn't say they were mandated by law, I said you can no longer buy a new car without them.  Why?  Because someone  else deemed you were unfit to make that decision for yourself like you're trying to do with MY 2ned Amendment.
Wow... Im new to this google+ stuff... But im sure, i can have a say. This is what America was created for. This forum is great! Everyone can have their own opinion here, say how they feel without retrobution. Without fear of a Government Agency looking up their info, going to their home and torchering and killing them and their families cause of an opinion. I believe we have a great task in hand of making sure our idealisms are not tarnished by those who wish to change our freedoms. I simply wish to say, all my prayers, are going to that town. To those people that have to bury their loved ones. Let us support them by being patient and support them anyway we can... God bless you all!!!
You're using a pretty confusing argument +Boogie ggerss .   You were the first to disparage my ability to "see the big picture".  I only used airbags as an illustration for your pie metaphor. 
Based on that metaphor, ANY laws that we pass (not just guns) are just going to get more and more strict until, what? 
My point is that you have little faith in Americans to know when they've hit the point of sensible legislation.
Even when we've gone overboard (prohibition for example), we've walked them back. 
In the case of guns, I say much safer to err on the side of stricter regs than more lax regs.
Nobody's trying to eat your pie dude.
Hell, nobody even wants your pie.
People need to wake up. There’s not much more I can say, what’s it gonna take for us to open there our eyes to the madness around us. Maybe it’s just me because I’ve never been a big fan of guns but something’s got to change, I’m not saying to take away all guns but no one should have military weapons by their side. if look at the sandy hook shooting and a lot of other cases like the theater shooting it would have turned out allot differently if they would’ve had a shotgun instead. Even if you have extensive background checks on the people who are buying these weapons you never know whose hands they'll fall into after their sold. Like Adam, the weapons he used were his mothers. And I know guns don't kill people, people kill people but some people can just not handle them at the moment, and I’m sorry to all the innocent gun owners, but nothing can bring those children back, and all we can do is stop it from happening again
+Jeremy Tregler It is actually thou shall not MURDER (i used caps since theres no italics) key difference.  Murder is killing for no reason.  Killing happens in war and self defence.  Keep that in mind.  Plus christ said to love others which would include PROTECTING them.  

I used son for when i have one.  But in that context we are safety nazis. You operate unsafely with a firearm near us we probably won't interact firearm wise with you again.  That teaches DONT AIM AT PEOPLE (unless for protection or in combat) and the church will teach DONT MURDER (pulling the trigger on innocents).
+Karlton Little First of all i'm most likley going to hear him/them breaking through something PLUS if im with my (future) family they will know how to shoot and you cant shoot  3+ people in the time it will take one to dart out of the room and lock a door buying him/her time to retrieve and load a gun.
Your not going to hack off a limb with one strike of your machette.  Because unless your pracicing like crazy and have super human strength thats pretty hard to do.  not to mention theres still adrenaline so you can strike him but unless its first strike = instant death (UNLIKELY!) he'll still have to to pull a trigger or fight back in some way.

We do little sports, no one ever in my blood line has ever found fishing fun, and biking leaves little time to talk.  Hunting for us is a tradition.  That would be your equivalent of \ no sports with your child or whatever is really popular in your household (assuming you have one).
If not guns. You would find something else to blame this horrific event on. Put the blame and sole responsibility where it belongs. On the individual that pulled the trigger. Oh, but the coward off'd himself. So you dont know where or who to blame. So lets blame an object. Lets blame the NRA. Lets blame the politicians. The democrats the republicans. The senators. Your gun weilding neighbor. The gun manufacturer. The bullet companies. Where does it end? Put the blame where it belongs. All we can do is support the victims the best way we can...
I say this with utmost respect, +Michael Brokate , but creating caveats and loopholes for gun ownership out of biblical interpretations doesn't serve your argument well to me.  I would argue that someone who would seek biblical justification for gun ownership should be the LAST person to obtain a firearm.
Kudos for promoting safe gun operation and recreation.  I don't think gun owners of this type are what concern people. 
There are very few freedoms that we enjoy in this country without limitations.  You name the freedom and I can probably show you where that freedom reaches it's limits.  Most gun control advocates are about placing sensible limitations on that freedom and feel that we're too lax right now. 
Suggesting that certain types of firearms or ammunition should not be available to the public does not mean that we're on a slippery slope to state control of your every action.  That's paranoia.  I would suggest that undue paranoia should also disqualify someone for gun ownership.
We're looking for some reasonable controls on what weaponry floats about on our streets.  Where reason lies is the debate.  It's hard to look at CT and CO and think that we've got it right.
It doesn't take much to hack off a limb with a sharp machete.  I don't even have to take the whole limb, really.  That blade contacting any flesh will render that piece pretty useless.  If it's a gun-hand...I'll take it.  It takes less than an inch of skull penetration to kill (God forbid it should ever come to that).  It's a very effective weapon that can't go off accidentally, doesn't require a trigger lock and can be unsheathed quietly.

Your choice of sport is just fine.  (Really, who doesn't love skeet shooting?)  I don't suggest you give it up unless you're found to be an unsuitable candidate for gun ownership...(again, I'm talking about a hypothetical set of requirements).  Much of my family's enjoyment comes from the variety of things that we choose to do.  If guns are the only thing you and your family are doing for fun, that's fine, but you're passing up on a lot of other great experiences you could be having. 
I absolutely love bowling.  It's my 1st choice of easy hanging out, but if every alley in the nation closed down, I'd still find ways to have a blast.  I would suggest the same about gun-sports...
+Karlton Little I was using the bible in response to him saying christians aren't suppose to kill not supporting my right to guns.  
The thing with gun laws is that individuals like you might want law V and W passed but once those get passed stricter laws like X Y Z come along.   I can show proof.  I believe that military weapons should not be given to the public.  But it is a slippery slope.
+Karlton Little So your also going to tell me that you keep this on your person? Ready for use at all times including in public places?  We actually don't do very many gun sports in my family. Baseball and Occasional fencing. And the comparison woudn't be all the bowling alleys it would be the alleys, the fields, rinks.  All that would be left is ___ (insert your least favorite and most boring sport)
Slippery Slope is a lazy argument. I appreciate sport hunters. I appreciate clay shooters and target shooting. But if you want to fire a fully automatic hollow tipped laser sighted 60 caliber weapon, join the Army.
+Karlton Little also with the macette if your attacked by 2 people while your taking care of billy (no offense to any billys)  brutus can get a hold of ya and slit your throat.
Our system works by people debating their position, making a case, getting others to see it their way and vote that way. 
Law V and W may pass and someone may propose laws X, Y and Z to follow, but our processes and society as a whole will determine if we really do want X, Y, and Z. 
Most of our laws will pendulum from strictness to laises-faire and settle somewhere in the middle. 
It's part of the growing process for us collectively.  I think the pendulum is swinging in general toward more control over firearms but the political pushback from the NRA and very vocal objections from gun supporters is substantial. 
I just happen to think that they're not the true will of the majority of Americans.  But hey, I only know who and what I know...there's no way to know what everybody feels on the issue...and so we'll debate to change the laws one way or the other.  I wish you luck on your side of the debate but then, I don't really want that. I'm looking for ways to mitigate these disasters.
+Michael Brokate , I don't carry a machete in public.  I have no need for any weaponry in public. 
Outnumbered is outnumbered regardless of what weapon you're carrying.  While you're shooting one assailant, another is shooting you. 
Since my weapon of choice is for the home, multiple attackers aren't an issue to me.  They can only come down the hall/through the door one at a time. 
The defense of my home is more tactical than it is about firepower.
+Karlton Little The problem with our system is we consider majority correct.  If the majority says killing babies is okay it becomes legal.  If the majority want gun laws there will vbe gun laws.  I think its all very regional here where i am some people will literally throw a punch if you talk about starting gun control where where you are its probably vice versa (just drop the punch, thats a hillbilly thing).  
+Karlton Little My argument isn't confusing. you're playing stupid....just because you only want 1 bite doesn't mean 10 people aren't in line behind you waiting for the chance to get their bite just like the 5 people who were in line BEFORE you.
I love how some people think this is Utube?? and feel the need to subject bullshit language....
If you can't argue without calling someone names then you are not arguing....
+Michael Brokate , I don't see that the majority deciding the laws is the problem.  Again, if a salient case is made, then the idea is that we'll come to a good decision.  I certainly don't think it's good for a small minority to determine what's right for the rest of us. 
+boog Gers , you're just trolling now, dude.  If you can't tell the difference between eliminating every privately owned gun in America and putting sensible controls on what ordinance is out there and who's got it, then I can't really help you.

I'm really not sure why I would bother to banter with a cat named after dried mucus anyway.
There is more chance you will die from a gun in Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, basically all of central America where guns are illegal for the most part.  This b.s. about America being the number one country for gun deaths is absolutely ridiculous.  These are the lies told to you by the anti-gun lobby. 
We need these weapons to protect ourselves from government that wants to take freedoms away from the people. If you are going to go after the NRA and our rights to bear arms you should go after the federal government. They supply 55% of the arms to the entire world. They supply other countries with a lot more arms than we have here at home. No one is complaining about how many women and children are being killed with U.S. supplied weapons overseas!
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Ben Franklin
The government has taken our Freedoms. They continue to do so. Did no one pay attention to the Patriot Act? Where were all the Patriots with their guns on that one?

And besides, a ragtag non-regulated citizen militia could not compete against our modern military. Any coup would last about three days before being completely crushed, and it would not be pretty. It may have been possible to compete with the national military when Franklin and Jefferson were hammering this thing out, but we've moved well beyond that now.
Sorry Jeremy, youre assuming the national guard or our own citizens would take up arms against their own people. I know that there are many soldiers that support the constitution. They would never obey such orders. So your statement is not correct, it would most likely be a lot of military on the side of the constitution.
I was not aware that failure to obey a direct order was an option. And say what you want about the requirements for maintaining a militia, but the words "well regulated" are certainly in the text of the Second Amendment, so any attempts at gun control are within the bounds of the Constitution, as it is written.

If anyone in this country would be willing to die for the right to keep their guns, but shrug off the killings of innocent children, then certainly we deserve the bloodiest civil war since the last one. What a sick country we do live in.
 The government supplies 55% of the arms to the entire world. They supply other countries with a lot more arms than we have here at home. No one is complaining about how many women and children are beind killed with U.S. supplied weapons overseas!
@Jeremy Tregler, again since you dont bother listening the part about a "well regulated" is refering to the militia, the part about the people does  not say anything about regulation, it says the opposite.  Two separate things.
Just wondering how we circumnavigated the "well regulated militia" part...most gun owners in this country aren't part of ANY militia, well regulated or not...
+Karlton Little I think I heard someone say the Supreme Court threw it out a few years back. Talk about "activist judges."
Again, since none of you bother to read the 2nd amendment, a well regulated militia is a separate part of the amendment from the people's part where it says their rights to bear arms shall not be infringed.  So the people do not have to be part of the militia.  The militia is supposed to defend against threats that might be external.
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." It is one sentence. It's a single thought. It's intentionally placed. I'm sorry if your grasp of the English language is insufficient.
Thank you +Jeremy Tregler+Stephen Ross , that's about as plain as English gets.  So how again, do we get interpretations that have eliminated the well regulated militia requirement?  I wonder if a street-gang or a secessionist group would qualify...I mean, assuming they're well regulated. Haha  ;-)
Um, no that is two separate thoughts in one sentence.  A well regulated militia is one then there is a comma and then it says the the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.  What part of infringed do you not understand, two ideas in that one sentence.  Welll regulated militiia, and people bearing arms.  Two separate things!! 
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state." I'm not an English teacher, but if you drop that into MS Word, you'll get the little green underline letting you know something has gone wrong. Do you understand how the English language works?
"As food poisoning is bad for one's overall health, the CDC recommends cooking meats to a temperature of at least 140º F."

Why does the CDC recommend cooking meats to a temperature of at least 140º F? Because food poisoning is bad for one's overall health.

Are you able to see that that is a single thought? What's the problem here?
Clearly the words well regulated is associated to Militia because they are grouped together.  Then you have the right of the people a separate thought which is attached to the words keep and bear arms.  Two thoughts, I really dont give a rats ass how you try to spin it, its clearly two separate ideas.
And here's the thing Jeremy, 150 million plus people in this country back up this interpretation.  So you can paste it all you want into word or come up with any other ridiculous excuse as to why they are not separate but your opinion is just your opinion.
Spin it? It's the fucking language. Learn it or GTFO, amiright?
Per the rules of English grammar, the stuff in front of that comma is descriptive or reasoning for what's behind the comma.  That is ONE thought. 
This is why we need more teachers in schools, not guns. Nobody knows how to read anymore.
+Stephen Ross , that's not spin.  It's English!  Hell, that's not even a case of "ye olde English"...that's just simple and plain grammar.  I knew the NRA was powerful, but powerful enough to change the rules of the language?  I AM impressed!
TIL the Framers were functionally illiterate.
Well, yes, thats one thing I can agree on, that is its plain English, therefore my point stands.  Two separate ideas.  Thanks for clearing that up.
I don't know how you're not getting this +Stephen Ross .  As far as plain English goes, your point does NOT stand. 
"A clear sentence being necessary for the lucid exchange of ideas, the proper use of a comma shall not be misunderstood."
I've used the exact same sentence structure changing only some cosmetic items.  Is the meaning clear?  Prior to the comma is not a separate's part of the same thought.
Heck, +Jeremy Tregler just did this exercise and it was crystal clear then...
It's only complicated if you have activist judges and a powerful lobby group working hard to confuse the issue.
Wow, amazing how hard you are trying to convince me that your interpretation is right when like I said at least half of the American public thinks you are wrong.  The problem is that you somehow think that because you believe it to be the case and your distorted logic of how you see it that you expect that the rest of us should change our view regardless of your diagram that really doesnt have any significance to the situation here. But please feel free to be wrong.
Exactly Jeremy, that goes both ways.  The Anti-Gun lobby is huge as well as plenty of marxist liberal judges that would love to do away with all of our freedoms.
+Stephen Ross , it's not a matter of how one side or the other THINKS, it's a matter of English grammar. 

There's no "that's your opinion" about it. 

The rules of English are the rules of English. 

The sentence's meaning is an ABSOLUTE. 

What we're looking at here is attempting to change the rules of language to fit a political need. 

There is not an English professor, teacher or person who knows parts of grammar who could POSSIBLY say that you're right. 

This is about the most idiotic debate ever engaged in on G+.
Pro-Tip: Marxist, Liberal, Fascist, Socialist and Communist are not interchangeable adjectives.
They are in this society especially when your hero Obama Hussein is a liberal and an admitted Marxist.
This conversation is starting to make a whole lot of sense now. Got it.
I guess what I don't get is this.... If they are simply saying that there would be stronger regulations, longer waiting periods and psyc evaluations who that is a responsible gun owner would oppose that?  You will still get your gun provided that you can wait a bit longer, pass a better back ground check and psyc evaluation.  Granted it may not shoot as many bullets in 10 seconds, but I know all of you true sportsman and personal safety enthusiasts won't mind; just think your aim is going to get really good so that you don't have to keep reloading.  You will be able to stand proud that you will be able to hit your target in less than 10 shots.  So if you are not a thug or psycotic what is the big deal or is the issue that you and your intentions really are not as pure as you claim?
+Karen Lindenthaler What if I told you that you had to do all of that before you were allowed to have a child?  ...and wait until we get to the part where I take your children away from by force, with full support of the law, even though you've done nothing wrong.
I had to take a written test and prove my proficiency before I could get a license to drive.
Why wouldn't owning/operating a gun require the same.
Currently, in TX, you can get a license without ever having to have even fired a gun.
Does that not just seem wreckless?
A license doesn't provide you with a gun or a car, and you don't have a  constitutional Right to drive anyway.  Not to mention I'm innocent until proven guilty...assuming my gun will be utilized to harm an innocent victim is unAmerican at it's very core.
Your constitutional right to own/carry a gun is married to being part of a "well regulated militia".
What militia did this shooter belong to?
The Framers did not say that gun ownership was intended to be an unregulated right. Please provide evidence of such if you're going to make these kinds of claims.
+Karlton Little Educate yourself: In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia
There are no rights in this country that are unregulated. 
I have the right to assembly, but can I assemble in your front yard?  No.
Heck, we saw Bush designate "free speech zones" in this country to contain constitutionally protected assemblies.
A gun's capacity to kill just about demands that there are common sense limitations to that freedom.
+Jeremy Tregler 
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:
So you're just skipping over everything in front of the comma then?
It's right there in the same freaking sentence.
+Karlton Little No, I posted the SC case which clarifies that one can own a firearm unconnected with a militia.  DC vs. Heller  *YOU* skipped over that.
Infringe: Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on: "infringe on his privacy"

You should stop before your ignorance becomes fact rather than speculation.  FYI, ignorance means you don't know, not that you can't learn.
+Karlton Little That's why the Amendment specifies infringe.  I'm not playing dumb, I'm saying your excuse didn't fly in 1776 either.
I understand the Heller decision.  That decision required a suspension of the rules of grammar to be reached. 
I believe that's called "judicial activism".
Go to Hell and take your message with you, maybe the Devil will listen to message .
Bo Jers
We are not debating, you are being corrected.  I'll be happy to debate with you once you learn the difference between fact and opinion (and stop flagging posts you don't like so I have to use alternate accounts to continue participating)
I do not want to anybodies guns away but why do you need assult weapon to hunt. Why are hunters and gun collectors afraid of an assult weapon ban. What animal would you hunt using a 30 or 100 round clip. There are nolonger any wooly mammoths, sibar tooth tigers, or dianours keft to hunt. Maybe next time another crazy gunmen will have to kill 100 or more people before anything its done in Washington. We have more murders in a day than most of allies have in a year. We are 5% of the world's population but we own 50% if the guns in the world. We live in the 21 century not 19 century and this Wild, Wild West attitude is nolonger acceptable.
I have yet to flag a single comment from you.
And I think you're the one confused with fact vs. well as English grammar and common sense.
You're too scared to be in the world without your gun and too scared to post online with something other than you're real name.
Your fear has shaped your worldview.
Really...dried mucus says it all.
Bo Jers
+Clara B. Edmond More people are killed with baseball bats than assault rifles every year....Why do your kids need baseball bats?
Bo Jers
+Karlton Little I lock my doors at night too...don't really care if you think that makes me to scared to live in this world.  FYI, I didn't compare guns to bats, I asked why her kids needed such a dangerous weapon.
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