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If you were wondering what is happening to at the moment, please be patient.
Just a heads up that we are having major problems at the list server.  Starting yesterday they changed something with GMAIL's smtp servers, such that every mail tries to send to GMAIL hosted recipients results in cryptic failures such as:

451 4.5.0 SMTP protocol violation, see RFC 2821


503 5.5.1 RCPT first.

There are more than 5000 subscribers alone on linux-kernel, so every time one of these times out I get a huge postmaster email for the bounce.  The backlog is growing endlessly at the moment.

I've tried things like disabling SMTP pipelining to no avail.

Complicating things further is that we use zmailer and this worked because the author Matti Aarnio regularly logged into vger and diagnosed problems.  I haven't heard from him or seen him login to in more than a year, and this problem is beyond my ability to diagnose, only he could do it.

I've sent him an email to try and have him diagnose the issue, but I'm not optimistic.

We may, therefore, be without mailing lists for several days while I install something to replace our zmailer setup.  It could take some time and I appreciate everyone's patience in advance.
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strange that kernel hackers have to set up & manage mail servers...i would think there's more people qualified to do that than wok on the kernel. obviously something i'm not aware of...
+phanisvara das we have been running our own infrastructure for years.  Do you know someone else who can do it for us for the same rate? :)
since it would have to be people you know, no. and even among people i really know, not much better  :(

personally i've been doing that on a small scale, with live servers, but no experience with real life loads on web- and mail servers. i could learn it (& offer time), but not by tomorrow or the day after.
…zmailer… (sorry, but the last time I was looking at zmailer was sometime between 2000 a 2002)
+phanisvara das exactly, and given that this is one of the highest volume mailing lists in the world, it's not easy to just hand it off to someone else.
How big is the delta between Google Groups and what you need to do? Which makes one wonder if this is a conspiracy by both the Gmail and Google Groups teams to get you to migrate your mailing list.
Calling Google Groups obsolete might be a bit strong. Granted, the search isn't amazing, but the new UI it got in June 2013 isn't too bad and it seems to handle groups with 10k+ subscribers and hundreds of messages a day without breaking a sweat.
Its our bug, we're rolling it back as we speak.  We rolled out support for the SMTP CHUNKING extension, and there's a corner case that we aren't handling correctly.  Hitting this bug may mean that there are a lot of bouncing addresses on the mailing list, however.

Google Groups isn't obsolete or unsupported, but agreed, its almost certainly not what you want for linux-kernel.
hmm, and I can't comment on the original, so someone will have to tell +David Miller .  Why G+ would give me a comment field and not let me comment, who knows.
Groups could definitely handle the volume, though we might have to special case it (we have some strict quota limits to prevent abuse), but we have special cased specific groups like that in the past.

And its a fairly typical mailing list server in many respects, though you might get people using the web interface and responding in html and things like that.  And people may feel pressured to get a Google account for the web interface, though its certainly not required (subscribe/unsubscribe via email works fine) and you shouldn't need a Gmail account (though, again, our signups may push you to that, but its avoidable afaik).  There are a lot of knobs, but perhaps not the knobs you want, and if you've done any custom configuration on your software, well, we probably don't have that.

If there are specific standard mailing list stuff we don't have, I'd be happy to put it on a feature list.
+Brandon Long ah, nice to hear that Google groups isn't abandoned, I had heard rumors of it's demise, and the old interface was quite dated.

As for hosting lkml on it, I don't think it would work out very well, but thanks for the offer :)
+Brandon Long, I've "sent feedback" on that odd G+ comment-box when not allowed to comment behaviour in the past. Can waste a lot of effort concocting a reply that can't be sent. Perhaps you've a bigger feedback to swing at them. :-)
+Greg Kroah-Hartman : just because the engineers working on a related product don't publically denounce Google groups, it doesn't mean that it won't be replaced by g+ communities soon. See also Google reader. See also "user numbers were declining since we stopped advertising the service and began pushing something similar but proprietary."
+David Schmitt although I can't speak for what's on the minds of those more directly involved or higher up the chain, I can say that Groups is a pretty integral part of GAFYD and G+ Communities aren't even close to being a replacement that our enterprise customers would accept.  Groups has active engineers making changes and supporting it, which certainly puts it in a different category than some of the other services that have been cut.

I realize it ultimately comes down to a loss of trust, and nothing lasts forever... but I wouldn't be signing Groups' death certificate yet.
+Brandon Long : thank you for your openness and understanding. I do believe your representation of your perceptions to be an honest personal account.

That doesn't change a thing to the fact that Google (and all other companies) are only responsible to the whims of their owners. Building on their infrastructure may be convenient, but not long-term sustainable.
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