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This front page is really unfortunate. As far as we know, there are millions of calls being slurped into a database, but the data from tech companies is case-by-case, and not "mined".

This is the sort of thing that is going to make it hard for people who want to do the right thing to take public outrage seriously.

We need a way to rhetorically reward companies pushing back on overly broad requests if we want the market to prefer pushback. If we just treat Google's approach as equivalent to Verizon's, we're removing an important incentive to do the right thing.
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Yehuda Katz's profile photoDaniel Szmulewicz's profile photoRyan Thompson's profile photoBen Babics's profile photo
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The end result is the same. The government mine and then they order Google or Facebook to give them the detailed information they need. Companies have no choice but to comply or break the law. The #prism  story is really a non-event. Google and Facebook are bleating to protect their right to mine us commercially as much as they want. At the end of the day this is all about money. 
 
I'm more concerned about the unequivocal denial by my former employer which appears to have been subsequently edited to be slightly less unequivocal.

I actually think they're doing 100% the right thing, but I feel like that also requires them to be extremely precise in how they cooperate with legal government requests. At least, to the degree the law allows.
 
As far as I know, you would not be defending prism if that was a picture of G. Bush on that front page instead of Obama...
 
+Michael Pisarski I doubt it. I was against the broad, secret FISA requests when Bush asked for them, and I'm still against them now.

What I'm saying is that PRISM is an operational detail, not an actual program, so being outraged by it (and tech company participation) is irrelevant.

Be against the secrecy around FISA and NSLs, not the tech stack they use to implement it.
 
The fact that they need something like PRISM is indicative that they have way too much data/information... +Yehuda Katz I don't care who is in the WH, since the "patriot" act, it has been nothing but a steady and deliberate destruction of personal privacy! PRISM only speeds that process up.
 
+Yehuda Katz You gotta be kidding me! You are upset that the outrage isn't well-calibrated? There is a time and place for post-mortems on public outrage but now isn't the time. Your incredulous statements are akin to berating grieving folk at a funeral for inappropriately grieving. Now please excuse me while I fret about protocol in the midst of a crisis.
 
Storing data to make it convenient to spy on the activities of a citizen, if and when the government chooses to do so, is still spying. From Orwell's 1984:

"There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized. "
 
+Yehuda Katz You may want to make your point more clear, because you sound like a crazy person.
 
After reading through this, I'd rather only listen to +Yehuda Katz when he's talking about Ember or Rails.
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