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Kicked out by security in the first few minutes!

We almost got a group shot with everyone at the beginning of the PhotoWalk, but we were kicked out into the streets!  At first, we were approached by a self-important security guard with a big voice and soulless eyes.  You could just see he had the sort of emptiness and insecurity that would drive him to concoct such a ridiculous, hollow voice of authority.  I pretty much ignored him, so he had to bring in two of New York's Finest to add to assist with our rather docile crowd...  so we didn't have time to finish the group shot until many hours later.

And here is a group shot from the PhotoWalk last night - thanks +Seth Walters !   #trnewyorkphotowalk  
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81 comments
 
Great photo, wish I could have been there.....
 
Super jealous of everyone who got to go...But count me in if you ever land in the Miami area!
 
Well, you can probably appreciate that private security are a little touchy about flashmobs in Manhattan these days.
 
Fun times! Enjoy the rest of your trip +Trey Ratcliff. Sounds like you're doing Burning Man right with the RV ... watch out we might all be knockin' at your window! :D
 
Come back down under and do a Sydney walk ^.^
 
Funny thing, the ones who push authority (when not warranted) are the ones who really have none. They are the ones who are not respected, demand it and want people to acknowledge their power. At least ya got this shot +Trey Ratcliff
 
Wish I could have gone, I was at my internship. Next time!
 
Occupy New York, with Cameras! Heh 
 
Feels good to know, I'm not the only person who thinks that uniforms give them "importance and authority".............otherwise they would be so so so so small creatures.....
 
yes, if you give a small person even the most minuscule authority they milk it for everything. it would be funny if it weren't so often frustrating & annoying
 
As someone who started out (and still does) shoot a lot of emergency scenes I am interacting with authorities all the time.  I have had interactions from:

During a large mill fire...
Cop: "You can't cross the street"
Me: "Why not? Everyone else is crossing why can't I?"
Cop: "Because you have a camera and you're probably up to no good"

During another mill fire:
Cop: "Who are you and what are you doing?"
Me: My name is Mike, here is my card.  I'm a freelance photojournalist"
Cop: "Make sure you only get my good side.  Here is my email address, if you get any good shots could you send them to me?"

I've even had a cop grab my lens and push it away even though I was behind the yellow tape with everyone else.  

It's tough...and you have to make a split second decision to walk away or make a stand and get into a pissing contest.   
 
If only the US was like every other country, you could've just handed him a fifty and kept doing what you were doing. :-)
 
Pretty soon immigration will have you on their radar Mr Ratcliff hehe!!  Just think of all the kung fu tripod weapons you all were wielding! :)

 Looks like a fun time!  YAY photo walks! :)
 
What an awesome and fun looking group of people! (So dangerous, yes, I'm sure. =P Some people are allergic to anyone having fun.) So glad you all had a successful photo walk!
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Looks like you got the whole of New York Joining you LOL :)
Ben T
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To bad that security guard acted up. Had he taken this group image with his cell phone it could have been his most viewed instagram photo ever. Maybe even made him into a hipster photographer. 
 
Great description of the security guard....
 
+Wil Santiago 

For me it depends on the city and how familiar I am with it and the local enforcement.  If I am out in NYC taking in calls, which I frequently do as I have family in Brooklyn, I tend to be a little less confrontational as I'm not as familiar with the first responders.  

When I'm up in RI however, it's a completely different ball game.  I actually ended up in the back of a cruiser during the "cop grabbing my lens" incident...that was of course until his supervisor came along.  At which point the cop that put me back there had to apologize to me.  I also got a letter of apology from the department as well.  
 
Great photo. Trey, thanks again for hosting this great day. 
 
Ans while people for the most part respect wha police officers do, the ir collective opinion of them is in the toilet. If ever one segment of society needed a lagre cadre of PR people , it is these!
  but nice shot. Looked like it was a fun time, otherwise.
 
Awesome record of a SERIOUS photo walk, in the greatest city in the world. Thanks for this +Trey Ratcliff 
Dan B
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what if something happened? what if someone was injured and he made no attempt to do anything about the group......who would be held responsible? in this day and age people sue for any possible reason, he also could lose his job and I am sure that now is not the time to take such a risk. 

NYC public parks require permits for groups of 20 or more, private property requires permission and security guards have jurisdiction based on their contract. while they may not be able to arrest you and book you with crimes in some instances they can handcuff you and detain you against your will, and the responding LEO can and often will arrest you. 

and as someone leading such a large group, injuries(to persons in or outside the group) and or damage to property puts you and the company that hired you at fault. 

regardless of how "docile" the group is, shit happens and when shit happens that is when the lax security guard(or any other job with responsibilities) gets screwed. 

So maybe he was an egotistical douche bag, or maybe he is a guy with a family and is on his last strike because he has been too lenient in the past, or perhaps he is receiving pressure from his company because of past activity in that area.

there is no respect for people anymore and the jobs they do and this goes especially for people put in such a position. 

to avoid anymore complications if this is a regular event it might be a good idea to find a regular spot and get permission from the city or a private owner so security and law enforcement are aware and nothing escalates beyond what it should be. 

with that said....this looks like it was an awesome time. NY is such a fabulous place for photos! 
 
+Daniel Buckman you're absolutely right, and along that line, it would help the situation even more if the security guards approached large groups of photographers with the request to leave the premises, a written policy backed explanation of the request, and a resource or contact for obtaining the proper permits, if that is not precluded by the explanation. Handling a situation with immediate intimidation rarely garners respect.
 
Great Times, Regular Security Guard and awesome +Trey Ratcliff and Crew! Exceptional Photowalk if you ask me ;-)
 
what are they looking for.
Dan B
 
+Jon Decker  - I wasn't there and I don't really know how the situation was handled. I don't know what permits or permissions the group might have had and I don't know how the guard approached the situation but I agree immediate intimidation would only escalate problems as would ignoring the guards request. Unfortunately in most situations both parties rarely approach a conflict properly. 

but yes ideally the security guard should have requested them to leave and then should have explained to the person in charge why and be ready to answer any questions regarding how they can acquire the correct permit or permission. 

Ultimately I feel the responsibility should fall on the organization who plans on occupying a space to be aware of the laws and their rights before assembling there. At least to protect themselves in such a situation. 

Too many altercations that could have been avoided because people are unaware of the law and their rights, as well as who does and does not have authority. 
 
Local camera club meeting was last night, they mentioned the upcoming Scott Kelby Worldwide Photowalk.  (In its 5th year, I'd never heard of it.)  I'm sure in lowly Bowling Green KY (50k+- pop.) it won't be an issue, but I suppose I must ask . . . these "permits" for NYC parks.  Are they "shall issue" notifications?  Or "may refuse" permission requests?  

There's something "odd" about the concept . . . "1000 random people could appear, and the park must simply 'handle' them.  But if 20 want to come as a group, then suddenly, park personnel are unconditionally responsible for your injuries or damages, and you must receive permission from the government to assemble".

(Sorry, I guess my "don't tread on me" dial is turned up higher this year.  Seems like the next step after requiring permission to assemble, is asking which football stadium we'll store the political prisoners in . . .)

Considering the motley and threatening crew above (with nice clothes and enough shining white teeth to do an Orbit gum commercial) . . . it'd be nice if just once, a security guard or policeman would stand up, get the crowds attention and yell . . . "People, people . . . sunset is 7:28, with overcast skies, and prevailing lighting, you'll get your best photos from over here . . ."

Maybe one day . . .
 
Only terrorists have cameras, don't you listen to the propaganda machine?... I mean, the "News".....?
 
We do not negotiate with photographers in this country.
 
Be sure to file a complaint on the security guard. There is no need to tolerate such twats in our society.
Dan B
 
+John Humkey I am not an authority on park permits all your questions could be answered by the parks department http://www.nycgovparks.org/permits/ or perhaps someone else can elaborate. 

I can go down to a hockey rink in my local park and play in a pick up game but if I join a league in that same park I am required to sign all sorts of waivers and possibly even have insurance. this is a product of the world that we live in today.

my best guess for the creation of permits is liability and I am sure that some of it is political in making it more difficult for groups to demonstrate and protest (but that is another ball of wax.)

and your last paragraph is profiling which is a very sensitive topic in NYC. taking a look at a group of people and deciding whether or not they are a threat based on what they are wearing is a big no no (Especially for someone with "authority".) although it would probably be accepted if it was an assumption that the group is not a threat based on their appearance.  but besides the point....here is the problem with that situation...

security guard (or police officer) gathers the group together, John doe decides to jump up on the wall to be more visible in the picture, John doe falls off the wall and breaks his leg.  John doe decides he wants to make a quick buck and decides to sue the security guard (or police officer) for not doing their job, the security company (or police department) for hiring this person and not properly training them, and the company that contracted the Security force.  unfortunately stuff like this happens all the time.  Soon we are going to have to sign waivers to go see a movie (Warner Brothers is being sued over the Aurora shooting) although we probably do already(there might be a waiver that is included when purchasing a ticket similar to attending a sporting event.) 




but this is getting way off topic.  Photography is awesome and people took some really nice shots, NYC provides some amazing photo Ops. 
 
You're a king among men if they're kicking you out, and you can't be indoctrinated.  Keep up the excellent work.  Love your photography.
 
Sounds like everyone had a great time. Wish i could have made the trip. Trey, any plans for a Vegas photowalk? 
 
Just awesome oh to have been there !!
 
You jumped up fuck. The Guard was doing his job. It was a risk with so many of you in a group. Get over yourself.
 
A risk? In new York City? A Crowd is a RISK IN NEW YORK CITY? Hardey - yer a twit.
 
One follow up.  Since we would all like to have widely available safe unencumbered photowalks.  I read the "parks" rules above.  (My father was a KY State policeman for 25 years, so . . . I'd of course be polite and respectful to guards . . . ) but, (IMNAL) I'd be polite and point out  . . . all the qualifications for "an Event" (even the special section on Film Shooting or a Photography Shoot) discuss "setting up equipment", setup/teardown times, vendors (food) booths, display booths, banners, large trucks with display sides, stages, sound systems, kids inflation thingys, and cabling for video. . . I'd even agree . . . picnic baskets on the ground for 20 people would qualify as "structures".

But, with no "structures" of any kind, I'd . . . respectfully . . . submit any large group (of any size) of walking (or wheelchair rolling) humans carrying cameras, simply don't qualify as "an Event" under the parks own rules.  

Though, even I agree, tripod vs monopod, for the tripod (a very small, very temporary "structure") there is a danger to others.  When in a thick crowd, I've been known to walk with the monopod on my foot.  You still get the steadiness when you stop, but without the trip hazard to others.

Either way . . . I wish you all luck and happy pics.  And look forward to our own local upcoming walk.
 
Good looking group of terrorists oops I mean shutter bugs.
 
Let's not get all winded and knowitally about rules. Who cares. The security guard wasn't reasonable, the photographers were. That's bad security work and not his job to harass a bunch of people with cameras. Then end.
 
Yes, I can see all those surly intentions.. everyone looks just far too happy.  Hope the photowalk brought cheer to NYC
 
It was a great evening yesterday...Thanks to everyone there.
 
I sooo wanted to go, I even asked Trey months ago when he was going to be in the North East.  I had to drop my camera off to Nikon yesterday morning for warranty work so I was a no show.  Next time I will not miss it.  In the mean time, anybody got a Nikon I can borrow until mine comes back from the service center?(joke)
 
I have as yet either by myself or in a group been kicked out of any public spaces here in the Pacific Northwest. It just astounds me that this happens in other places in the country. Are we all feeling so scared that we are afraid to live and let live.
Mind you. As photogs we must be mindful of other people and property. As a landscape photographer I follow the "leave no trace" rule in urban setting as I do in the wilderness.
 
Looks like a lot of fun - when is your tour hitting Malaga, Spain again:)
 
What a great turnout. Bet that was a great time.
 
taking pictures, having fun very dangerous group your lucky your not all in GITMO ;)
 
Im way in the back taking a photo.. makes me laugh
 
You too +Trey Ratcliff ? They do the same to even small groups of 7 now in KUala Lumpur. Shakes Head in despair.
 
In San Juan, Puerto Rico, there is a municipal ordinance that basically prohibits taking pictures without a permit from the town. This caused a big controversy in Puerto Rico after some people were removed from location, even though they were shooting public property. The police did not allowed taking pictures to anyone carrying a camera with a removable lens or with a tripod. Interestingly, tourist were allowed to take pictures of anything they wanted... The police basically had it wrong from the beginning. The ordinance was supposed to apply only to shootings that involved the use of public assets, such as renting space or if it required closing a facility or street. A local photography club organized a big shooting like this one and went through Old San Juan shooting everything, even police men! No one was arrested, of course...
 
The place you picked to meet in New York City was right around the corner from Zuccotti Park where the OWS movement started. Security around there is probably very nervous and touchy about any crowds forming. I thought it was interesting that you picked that spot for the photo walk to start from. 
 
hello everybody! Nice to meet you and i'm very happy to contact with you
 
I worked security most of my way through college, thankfully I was usually at trucking facilities gorgeous sunrises and sunsets from the roof, which as security I had access to as well as many roof tops of other buildings.

That said you might want to consider that his boss might have told him to go clear the group out or he might have done his due diligence telling the group to move on so his butt was covered if something did happened. Most, not all, private security will not do more then what they have to, I know I did not do more then I had to.   
 
lovely scene. Looks like a lot of fun.
 
awspme picture...seeing everybody smiling and snapy
 
Awesome time, great trying to get in the mind of a Master! If you have never super time talking to Trey ...a great warm soul.

Re security, I was there when the guard came...not sure I saw the same soulless guard described but I like the drama in treys description better ;-)

Lastly I've shot around NYC for a long time as many of you have..and find the 'rules' enforced haphazardly..in the scheme of things it was minor and to the credit of the guy he did readily (and pleasantly when I asked) acknowledge that moving 2 feet away (to the sidewalk) was public property and no problem

Contrast that with the Gestapo at rock center that think even the sidewalk (that I pay for) is theirs(they make you shoot tripod from street...even at 3am Sunday night)

Anyway great meeting a bunch of you..let's hangout some time and do some more photo walks..whose up to do the hyline?
 
That's too bad because really how long do they think a large group like that is going to stay there posing for a shot! I have had that and it was for a wedding family group shot and when it takes kinda of long just to gather people......not letting me take a 3 second shot is frustrating.
 
When in a Public area, one must always say to the Sec Guard or Police who decides THEY don't want a photo taken (of someone who has consented to be photographed) to show the Regulation, Policy or Law that allows them to command you to not take a Photo...  In a public space no one has the right to tell you not to take a Photo.  Don't be adversarial or confrontational, be polite and respectful, just that understand a Police Officer will ALWAYS side with a Sec Guard for reasons of camaraderie, no matter how right you are...
 
Are those all Photographers! Wow there must be lots of pics of the same thing!
 
ciao a tutti, che bella compagnia, tanti saluti da' ITALIA. Io nn parlo inglese, se volete parlare con me scrivete in Italiano, penso che tra di voi un italiano ci sarà, vi scrivo da Manduria  (TA)
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waoooo..there must be a intresting story about that place../ picture.....lqtm
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