This piece about the rise and growing legitimacy of the Pirate Party in German strikes me as rather important. I was interested to read about their Liquid Feedback software for policy making.
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- In an exactly proportional representation system, such as Sweden, a 51% majority could also rule the 49% minority, exactly as in the UK, even though 51% of the votes may give moe than 51% in the [English] parliament. What really matters to the 49% is then how much liberty they have to live the life they want. It could be a lot, or very little, depending on how the 51% decide to rule.May 6, 2012
- Normally you don't have two parties though..May 6, 2012
- @Marc P: "decline of the green party"? Wait, did I miss something? Last I saw, they have been constantly increasing in popularity over the last decades.
If you want to talk about failed politics, look at DIE LINKE and FDP. DIE LINKE for never having accomplished anything, by not able to form a coalition with anyone (the common left-wing type of unable to contribute) and FDP for making big promises that they were not able to fulfill.
Not sure yet which way the pirates try to fail...
You sound a bit shizophrenic to me. On one hand you blame the parties for forming a coalition, on the other hand you do seem to understand that a radical party won't get anything implemented because you need a coalition for this.
Oh, and as you said that >30% are conservatives in Germany, why should the other 70% be allowed to rule over the 30% conservatives, even if they would agree enough to be called a "majority"?
Fact is, there is no longer such a thing such as a majority. We have multiple interest groups, that even overlap to some extend. There is no such thing as a 51% majority. At most you will see a (30+20+1) coalition ruling over a (10+10+10+10+9) opposition. We have to live with that, and accept that any policy needs a coalition to get it implemented. And unless the pirates accept this and aim for coalitions, they'll end up in the role of DIE LINKE, sitting somewhere inbetween of "annoying" (because they still say no to anything) and "meaningless" (because they don't make a difference in the end).
By paying the price of making compromises and forming coalitions, the Greens at least have made a difference (whether you like what they did or not, they did manage to get some of their agenda implemented).
Radical parties only work well when they actually get majority at some point.May 6, 2012
- It wasan example aimed at the British system not the German.and if you mean by making a change is completely corrupt yourself and your own values, the green party has been very successful in effectively becoming a second fdp for the conservatives. The change Fischer has gone through once he smelled big money is definitely unique.that is not the kind of pragmatism and professionalism that people want to see.the rise of the pirates is also the Denise of the green party.May 6, 2012
- When you write "Greens and SPD", everybody is bound to think of Germany...
Apart from that, your bitching against Fischer is a good example of how the left in Germany fails. They are so much about infighting, they always look for things to dislike about each other, instead of honoring the achievments of the other left politicians. They'd love to be each their own party, so they can bitch against the others.
Left-wing in Germany pretty much defines itself by being against things. It is okay when it's being against Nazis, but other than that they need to be much more constructive and much less fighting. But if any left wing politian stops fighting, he's considered a traitor. Very grown up, these infighting kids.
The Green party apparently (including during Fishers last active years) still has plenty of support. Maybe not by hard-core leftist "fighters" that define themselves by being opposition, but maybe more with families that actually want the policies adopted and environmentalists that value every small contribution to preserving nature.
Again, very typical of how hard core left politics fail completely these days. Fortunately, we still have some moderate left like SPD and Greens that actually achieve some small progress every year instead of dreaming of the big change that never happens.
And I do hope the Pirates will turn out to be more on this side, instead of DIE LINKE.May 7, 2012
- Well, this turns out to be more a discussion about the messianic vs. devilish arguments about the Pirate Party, but a discussion about Liquid Feedback as a tool.
Anyhow, i'll try to draw the circle back towards this.
LF is quite a cunning tool, and up to now the user interface has improved somewhat. (although i think it still could be enhanced)
The best and easiest way should be just to install it on a local Server and start playing around with it. I think you shouldn't have a problem with getting a bunch of players in your circles, and i am positively sure that the LF Community would appreciate your thoughts and hints about the Tool.
There are already feature Requests about enhancing the delegation system etc. You'll find them in the test sytem. (http://dev.liquidfeedback.org/test/)
After all we have had quite a success working with the tool in terms of preparing the topics for our nationwide assemblies. If you would like to see, how it can be used in that way, stay tuned with the preparation of the BPT12.2 in Bochum. The Proposals will be derived from LF initiatives, and drawn together in a special part of the wiki.(http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Bundesparteitag_2012.2/Antragsfabrik)
Most of the proposals there should be linked to LF initiatives.
Thats how we already make a good use of LF in grassroots democracy.
cheers, or as we like to say: aarrr, ArendMay 9, 2012