Many will now wait for it to come out on DVD and rent it from netflix for $1.00
Tim O'Reilly
Partagé en mode public -I saw John Carter so you don't have to
As a kid, I was a huge fan of Edgar Rice Burroughs. I read everything he wrote, and the covers of the Grosset and Dunlap editions of Tarzan with the fabulous dust jackets still have a Proustian "madeleine in tea" power to evoke the memory of the high shelf in the stacks of the Parkside Library in San Francisco where the books were kept. To be honest, the Mars series were my least favorite Burroughs, but still, how could I not see a movie that would feature "the hurtling moons of mars"?
And after seeing +Andrew Stanton's TED talk about film storytelling, I was really hopeful. http://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_stanton_the_clues_to_a_great_story.html
Well, I was disappointed. Here are a few reasons:
1. The character of John Carter was all wrong - brutish and stupid, far from the chivalrous Virginia gentleman of the books. They abandoned the unabashed romanticism of Burroughs in favor of a modern anti-hero whose tortured path to falling in love with Dejah Thoris, a Princess of Mars, was completely unconvincing.
I wonder at this failure to grasp the simplicity of emotion that suffused the golden age of science-fiction. George Lucas nailed it perfectly in the first Star Wars trilogy. Nobility of purpose, idealism, the pure romance of a boy (or girl) who hasn't yet experienced the complications of the real thing, adventure and the chance to make a big difference against impossible odds: these are the motivations of the genre.
2. Too much spectacle, not enough attention to character and story. And what spectacle there was was undistinguished. There was a certain steampunk grandiosity to the way they did the flying ships of Barsoom that I liked, and there were some stretches of Lake Powell as the River Iss that I found visually compelling.
3. A faux subplot involving manipulation by "the Gods of Mars" that was absent from the original, and unnecessary. I hate it when filmmakers adapting books that have been loved by millions don't trust their material and decide to "improve on it."
4. The depiction of John Carter's strength and leaping ability in low Martian gravity defied all laws of physics, and was depressingly inconsistent with gravity 1/3 that of earth. At times he looked more like superman. We know this is a fantasy, but consistency is what makes that plausible. The scene in which he first came to grips with his new abilities was like an amateurish rip-off of the awakening to power scene in the first SpiderMan movie (which was absolutely brilliant - the scene by which other superhero movies should be measured.)
Oh yeah, and "the hurtling moons of Mars" pretty much stood still. (Of course, Burroughs was wrong in his depiction. Per Wikipedia "Phobos rises in the west, sets in the east, and rises again in just eleven hours, while Deimos, being only just outside synchronous orbit, rises as expected in the east but very slowly. Despite its 30 hour orbit, it takes 2.7 days to set in the west as it slowly falls behind the rotation of Mars, and has long again to rise." But in the imagined world of John Carter, images like this matter.)
5. The Tharks looked and acted like four-armed versions of Jar-Jar Binks. In short, this movie is in the science-fiction tradition of late George Lucas, when it should have emulated his early brilliance.
I rest my case.
That being said, per Rotten Tomatoes, audiences liked it better than critics, and there were people in my theater in NYC who clapped at the end, and several bursts of audience-wide laughter or amazement. So if you're not a purist, YMMV.
As a kid, I was a huge fan of Edgar Rice Burroughs. I read everything he wrote, and the covers of the Grosset and Dunlap editions of Tarzan with the fabulous dust jackets still have a Proustian "madeleine in tea" power to evoke the memory of the high shelf in the stacks of the Parkside Library in San Francisco where the books were kept. To be honest, the Mars series were my least favorite Burroughs, but still, how could I not see a movie that would feature "the hurtling moons of mars"?
And after seeing +Andrew Stanton's TED talk about film storytelling, I was really hopeful. http://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_stanton_the_clues_to_a_great_story.html
Well, I was disappointed. Here are a few reasons:
1. The character of John Carter was all wrong - brutish and stupid, far from the chivalrous Virginia gentleman of the books. They abandoned the unabashed romanticism of Burroughs in favor of a modern anti-hero whose tortured path to falling in love with Dejah Thoris, a Princess of Mars, was completely unconvincing.
I wonder at this failure to grasp the simplicity of emotion that suffused the golden age of science-fiction. George Lucas nailed it perfectly in the first Star Wars trilogy. Nobility of purpose, idealism, the pure romance of a boy (or girl) who hasn't yet experienced the complications of the real thing, adventure and the chance to make a big difference against impossible odds: these are the motivations of the genre.
2. Too much spectacle, not enough attention to character and story. And what spectacle there was was undistinguished. There was a certain steampunk grandiosity to the way they did the flying ships of Barsoom that I liked, and there were some stretches of Lake Powell as the River Iss that I found visually compelling.
3. A faux subplot involving manipulation by "the Gods of Mars" that was absent from the original, and unnecessary. I hate it when filmmakers adapting books that have been loved by millions don't trust their material and decide to "improve on it."
4. The depiction of John Carter's strength and leaping ability in low Martian gravity defied all laws of physics, and was depressingly inconsistent with gravity 1/3 that of earth. At times he looked more like superman. We know this is a fantasy, but consistency is what makes that plausible. The scene in which he first came to grips with his new abilities was like an amateurish rip-off of the awakening to power scene in the first SpiderMan movie (which was absolutely brilliant - the scene by which other superhero movies should be measured.)
Oh yeah, and "the hurtling moons of Mars" pretty much stood still. (Of course, Burroughs was wrong in his depiction. Per Wikipedia "Phobos rises in the west, sets in the east, and rises again in just eleven hours, while Deimos, being only just outside synchronous orbit, rises as expected in the east but very slowly. Despite its 30 hour orbit, it takes 2.7 days to set in the west as it slowly falls behind the rotation of Mars, and has long again to rise." But in the imagined world of John Carter, images like this matter.)
5. The Tharks looked and acted like four-armed versions of Jar-Jar Binks. In short, this movie is in the science-fiction tradition of late George Lucas, when it should have emulated his early brilliance.
I rest my case.
That being said, per Rotten Tomatoes, audiences liked it better than critics, and there were people in my theater in NYC who clapped at the end, and several bursts of audience-wide laughter or amazement. So if you're not a purist, YMMV.
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133 commentaires
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Bob Calder
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So would you go see The Eternal Lover?
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What about the OST? The theme in the trailer sounds like Zeppelin's Kashmir.
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Thanks Tim. I am glad that you set my expectations. I too am a huge Edgar Rice Burroughs fan. Founding father and all.
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frederick rabuya
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just for watch a john carter it's very desert very nice
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Nick Chapman
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Bummer. I loved those books as a kid. I've been kind of avoiding revisiting them as I have a sneaking suspicion they wouldn't stand up to my current tastes or expectations, but I was looking forward to this movie, and the fact that the script was by +Michael Chabon seemed promising. Will be interesting to hear what he has to say on topics like not trusting the original material. Most of the criticism +Tim O'Reilly lays out here seems like it was not stuff in which Chabon would have been involved - directorial choices and so on rather than script.
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+Juan J. Martínez I'm pretty sure it was Kashmir in the trailer.
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Gary Stock
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I had a similar reaction to the first showing: I was led to expect early Star Wars with a bit of The Matrix.
Instead, I got late Star Wars with a lot of The Mummy.
Also, for those easily irritated: everything about the Tharks is very Jar-Jar-Jarring. Forewarned is... four-armed. lolz
Instead, I got late Star Wars with a lot of The Mummy.
Also, for those easily irritated: everything about the Tharks is very Jar-Jar-Jarring. Forewarned is... four-armed. lolz
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Trevor Thompson
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Well said! It seems like they have a formula these days for remaking science fiction books and comic books that always leaves something to be desired. Sin City might be an exception.
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Unfortunately, all of the problems you mentioned seem to be the main driving force behind ticket sales, especially when targeting those who never read the books.
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Henry Webb
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I walked out after about 30 minutes. Thought it was awful. Typical Hollywood B.S. Couldn't believe it was made by the same guy who made Wall-E.
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I will prob see it tonight, after seeing the trailers I was starting to expect something like I Robot, where they licensed the name and made a generic action movie. Late Start Wars is going to be a big step up.
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Oh dear, well there goes a trip to the local IMAX
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Steven Harris
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"Because it's not like the book" is one of the less useful film criticism moves. Why would it desirable (or even possible) that the movie reproduce, exactly, your memory of the book?
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I for one didn't read the books so I don't think I'll be disappointed as much as you. Sometimes though you just watch the movie for the ride.
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Chris Maler
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why do these filmmakers insist on messing up the source....This makes me GRRRR!
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Chaz Steen
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Was not planning on seeing this and that has now been cemented.
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Why change a perfect story? As u said, millions enjoyed it as it was but would there b as much revenue from lunch boxes etc. if it was truer 2 the original?
Again moneywood getting it's way :(
Just b4 the 1st attack on Iran can u yanks send all studio exec's there plz??? :p
Again moneywood getting it's way :(
Just b4 the 1st attack on Iran can u yanks send all studio exec's there plz??? :p
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Javier Barberena
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It looked like a senseless movie from previews. Perhaps I will rent it at Redbox when it comes out.
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Terry Sanderson
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Thank you Tim. Great review. Tallies with my impressions of the trailers and interviews. I will wait for the DVD
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Gerald Bohmer
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I new that coming from Disney The film wouldn't be great.
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+Steven Harris It's one thing to make edits to the source to fit the medium, it's another thing altogether to add elements that were never intended to be in the story.
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Cara Schulz
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YES! "I wonder at this failure to grasp the simplicity of emotion that suffused the golden age of science-fiction. George Lucas nailed it perfectly in the first Star Wars trilogy. Nobility of purpose, idealism, the pure romance of a boy (or girl) who hasn't yet experienced the complications of the real thing, adventure and the chance to make a big difference against impossible odds: these are the motivations of the genre."
This perfectly encapsulates what I love about that age of Sci-Fi and why it doesn't go out of style with fans. I appreciate other styles of Sci-Fi, but John Carter only works as a book because it is in the romantic/idealistic style. Any other style and it would fall apart. Which it sounds is what happened.
This perfectly encapsulates what I love about that age of Sci-Fi and why it doesn't go out of style with fans. I appreciate other styles of Sci-Fi, but John Carter only works as a book because it is in the romantic/idealistic style. Any other style and it would fall apart. Which it sounds is what happened.
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alex velazquez
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As a person who never read the book I enjoyed the movie. I'm sure the movie was nothing like the book but that is how movies are done. I found it entertaining
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I reread ERB's Pellucidar books recently as a comparison for a colloquium (http://goo.gl/gGwqX) on mean solar timekeeping on the (outer) surface of the Earth . The talk also referenced timekeeping on modern-day Barsoom via the Martian rovers. Burroughs' prose, plots and characterization are pedestrian at the best of times. His imagination was quite remarkable, however. Tarzan, from Weissmuller to Disney, shows that ERB can be successfully filmed. It's a shame if John Carter wasn't.
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Scott Cravens
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I agree with +Steven Harris. While movie makers take chances changing the story line, it is certainly their prerogative to do so. I've often felt they do it not because they feel their version might be better, but because trying to make a movie just like the book is impossible. The attempts always fail and are criticized. The beauty of reading books is that ones own creativity drives the vision. Everyone has their own vision. We can't expect the movie maker's vision to match ours.
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Nick Chapman
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+Steven Harris Agree that in general "not like the book" is not the most useful criticism of the movie. However, most of what +Tim O'Reilly said seemed to me to be in the "not a good movie" category, which echoes what I have been hearing from other sources. So they will have disappointed two audiences: those wanting a good film, and those wanting a film of the book. Not wise, from a ticket sales point of view.
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John carter sounds an awful lot like John Conner, just sayin'.
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Bill St. Clair
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Well, you almost convinced me not to go today. Fortunately, I haven't read the book, so that won't pollute my experience.
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nice review
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Tim O'Reilly
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+Steven Harris To be sure, there are movies that take the germ of a book and transform it into something new and wonderful. But "it's not like the book" is a valid criticism when they take out the parts that made the book special and substitute something banal. After all, when you're doing a remake of a popular book, it's because the book has been loved by its readers, and you should at least try to understand what they loved about it. When you miss this badly, it just means that you didn't get it.
+Cara Schulz picked out the part of my review that especially justifies that criticism.
+Cara Schulz picked out the part of my review that especially justifies that criticism.
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thanks for the comprehensive review! much appreciated. Nobility of purpose? They wouldnt bother, not when cynical anti-heroism is still in chic. still, I'll probably watch this as a download several months from now.
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Tim O'Reilly
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+Scott Cravens There was nothing in the book that couldn't have been done. The movie would have been far better if they had tried to capture the essence of Burroughs' imagination.
And look at some other remakes: Spider Man 1 - brilliant, eerie evocation of the characters as depicted by Jack Kirby and the story by Stan Lee. Later movies depart further and further from the essence as they add more special effects and wild story elements (though the later movies are still pretty good.) Fantastic Four: no fidelity to the story or characters (actually offensively far from the original), total miss, bad movie. Iron Man 1 pretty good fidelity, pretty good movie; Iron Man 2 no fidelity, awful movie.
Dark Knight and Batman Begins, on the other hand, brilliant re-imagining of material not in the original.
In short, if you're going to make sh*t up, you'd better be good at it, at least as good as the folks who created the original material.
And look at some other remakes: Spider Man 1 - brilliant, eerie evocation of the characters as depicted by Jack Kirby and the story by Stan Lee. Later movies depart further and further from the essence as they add more special effects and wild story elements (though the later movies are still pretty good.) Fantastic Four: no fidelity to the story or characters (actually offensively far from the original), total miss, bad movie. Iron Man 1 pretty good fidelity, pretty good movie; Iron Man 2 no fidelity, awful movie.
Dark Knight and Batman Begins, on the other hand, brilliant re-imagining of material not in the original.
In short, if you're going to make sh*t up, you'd better be good at it, at least as good as the folks who created the original material.
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I think I'll stick with the books... :(
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Tim O'Reilly
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+Bob Calder The Eternal Lover was never one of my Burroughs favorites. Now Lost on Venus, that I would see, or The Cave Girl, or At The Earth's Core, or Tarzan and the Jewels of Opar ... I'd see in a heartbeat, just to see if someone would do them justice.
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Debi Orton
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Saw it last night and although some of the effects were grand, the plot seemed grafted from a 1940s B romance. At o e point, my fellow moviegoer leaned over and said "I saw that coming." The entire movie was predictable Disney schmaltz, not the "stranger in a strange land" tale I'd recalled from childhood.
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Thanks for the review
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Tim O'Reilly
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+Rob Seaman I have to take another gander at the Pellucidar books. I did re-read A Princess of Mars a few years ago, and it was astonishingly badly written, but I do think that Burroughs did improve as a writer after that, his first book. And yes, his imagination was unparalleled. And a wonderful view into the values of his time.
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Russell Nelson
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Thank you for your sacrifice, Tim.
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"I saw John Carter so you don't have to"
that made me laugh. thanks for the review. I am heading to Lorax today and hope I will not be disappointed =)
that made me laugh. thanks for the review. I am heading to Lorax today and hope I will not be disappointed =)
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Thanks for the review, Tim. I was considering seeing this today, but I might just enjoy the sunny day instead. Mind you, I've never read the original, so I might be under-informed enough to enjoy the popcorn action of it all.
I'm really replying to applaud this line:
"I hate it when filmmakers adapting books that have been loved by millions don't trust their material and decide to "improve on it."
This is particularly, painfully obvious in comic / graphic novel adaptations. Somehow the studio manages to find a young writer with enough of an ego to decide that they can do better than 50 years of collective myth. I am all for a certain measure of creative freedom, but drastic changes / additions to classic story lines rarely succeed.
Watching the Spiderman scene that you describe in your post was one of the truest moments of cinematic joy that I've ever experienced - Raimi did such a perfect job of capturing the pure escape to fantasy that reading comic offers imaginative readers. I've caught glimpses of this in other superhero films, but I'll always go back to that first Spiderman movie for a peek back to my 13 year-old world.
I'm really replying to applaud this line:
"I hate it when filmmakers adapting books that have been loved by millions don't trust their material and decide to "improve on it."
This is particularly, painfully obvious in comic / graphic novel adaptations. Somehow the studio manages to find a young writer with enough of an ego to decide that they can do better than 50 years of collective myth. I am all for a certain measure of creative freedom, but drastic changes / additions to classic story lines rarely succeed.
Watching the Spiderman scene that you describe in your post was one of the truest moments of cinematic joy that I've ever experienced - Raimi did such a perfect job of capturing the pure escape to fantasy that reading comic offers imaginative readers. I've caught glimpses of this in other superhero films, but I'll always go back to that first Spiderman movie for a peek back to my 13 year-old world.
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Black Mambo
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Thanks +Tim O'Reilly, you saved me US$12 and 4 hours in the town's Mall...!
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Billy Harvey
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"Shortly after the birth of the artist, came the afterbirth - the critic."
-- Mel Brooks (I think)
-- Mel Brooks (I think)
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Ian Duncan
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Utterly awe inspiring, one of the best pictures I have ever seen
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John Dubinsky
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I think you went into the movie expecting something which you stated in your post very few movies do... stay true to the story from the book which it is adapted from. With that said, #John Carter is a good movie.... loosely based on the novels with added Disney flair/fluff. Pretty much what I expected and worth the price of admission.
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Chris Pitchford
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I loved it! Every point made in the OP can be countered using observations from the movie, but hey -- what's the point? He didn't feel the way I (or the rest of the audience at the screening he attended) felt when watching the movie.
Go see it, judge for yourself! I think you'll love it! It's a wonderful story for my 10-year-old son, who never has read the books. And it was wonderful for me, and I have A Princess of Mars nearly memorized!
Go see it, judge for yourself! I think you'll love it! It's a wonderful story for my 10-year-old son, who never has read the books. And it was wonderful for me, and I have A Princess of Mars nearly memorized!
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yeah
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yo jorge Lopez
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Tim O'Reilly
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+Chris Pitchford So glad you loved it. I hope others who disagree with me have the courage to come out and say so after my very strong statements!
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Now that I have read this, I am still not sure if I want to see it in the movies. I want to experience the the visual of the big screen, and the joy of surround soumd turned up loud, but the Star Wars clone feel was off putting.
Maybe, I will after all, thanks.
Maybe, I will after all, thanks.
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I loved the books as a kid and loved the movie just fine. The books are a 100 years old and not anywhere close to high brow literature. The original Princess of Mars story is incredibly dated, and the hero flat and one dimensional. The updates were necessary and the filmmakers did a fantastic job modernizing the source material.
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^ I'm with Chris. I consider myself a fairly hardcore fan and I thought it was a wonderful adaptation and a really fun film. OTOH, this is one of the more thoughtful and original negative reviews I've seen and I wouldn't say Tim is wrong. It just struck me in a totally opposite fashion. At 46, I relish the few opportunities I have to feel like a kid again.
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Oh noooooooooo
Nice synopsis. I haven't read the book and I think I will enjoy the movie. I read the 2nd to last Harry Potter book and was severely disappointed when I saw the movie. But really, have there ever been a book-turned-movie that DID follow the book exactly?
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James McCleese
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I disagree that John Carter (the character) was flat and one-dimensional. He was a remnant of an earlier age, before ADHD, before reality television, before our lives were packed full of melodrama. The original John Carter was strong, decisive and intelligent. As the saying goes, women wanted to be with him and men wanted to be him. Hollywood of late seems to be obsessed with the idea that potential heroes should be dragged, kicking and screaming, to the Call to Action. Personally, I think a hero is someone who stands up for what is right and isn't afraid to grab hold of the world and shake what he wants out of it.
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I'm gonna save the $10 and skip this movie.
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Brian Drake
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+Juan J. Martínez it was a cover of Kashmir by a group called Bond.
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Thanks, maybe i'll just go reread the books instead.
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iv seen it its not the same the film is amzing i saw it in 3d to
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i saw the trailer its so awasome
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Derek Vergin
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I saw it and its terrible
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The hubby wants to see it today...well, at least I'll get some movie popcorn out of the deal, lol!
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+John McCleese He was an rigid, idealized and exaggerated archetype of man from an earlier age. Even as a doe-eyed kid, I thought he laid it on a little thick. He was a calvaryman for the South, for God's sake. Even at his most gentlemanly, he would be rougher around the edges than the literary character of John Carter.
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#1 is a general issue I have with a lot of modern 'fantasies' (not just 'fantasy') - it was striking in the LotR movies where the script writers would not let any character be simply idealistic and romantic without adding any underlying flaws that very much ruined the character. Apparently this type of thing is 'unrealistic' - which is a funny accusation to make about a sf/fantasy story.
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After only 3 seconds of seeing the trailer on TV I knew I was in for a big disappointment. From the commercials alone, I could tell the casting was all wrong along with basically everything else. Nevertheless, I will still go see the movie.
When reading a book, the imagery one's brain naturally generates is all one really needs (given hints from the book's cover art).
I guess the few people in the world talented enough to produce this movie in a way which doesn't disappoint the high expectations of those who have read and loved the books, while also appealing to viewers who have never read the books, were busy on other projects.
Btw, Tim, if you get a chance to skim the e-mail I sent you via G+ awhile back, I'd appreciate a response. Thanks.
When reading a book, the imagery one's brain naturally generates is all one really needs (given hints from the book's cover art).
I guess the few people in the world talented enough to produce this movie in a way which doesn't disappoint the high expectations of those who have read and loved the books, while also appealing to viewers who have never read the books, were busy on other projects.
Btw, Tim, if you get a chance to skim the e-mail I sent you via G+ awhile back, I'd appreciate a response. Thanks.
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I saw the film yesterday. I haven't read the books. Both my wife and I liked the movie, except of the middle part where this princess chick styled like a modern american is absolutely unconvincingly trying to seduce John Carter. We thought that this broke the movie a lot. But besides that, it was very amusing. Well, maybe because it was our first free evening with my mom babysitting our little daughter. :-)
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I'll still go see it in the theater, but I have been forewarned.
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I appreciate the warning but my wife loved it when she saw it with a friend so I'm considering going.
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Oh no, that sounds depressing. I'd probably still watch it though, can't resist watching any movies on Barsoom.
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Too much spectacle? Nuff said.
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LOL! So far, everyone in my movie group has loved it. I am going to see it today.
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Kelly Kinkade
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Thanks for the review. I was disappointed when I heard that Disney was making this movie as we have been boycotting all Disney content for years. But the review tells me both that I'm not missing much and that our Disney boycott remains justified.
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I've heard that the 3D process they used is an also-ran - 2 out of 4 of The Young Turks reviewers said they had to take the glasses off a few times during the movie. Now, the good 3D process leaves me with a slight brainache, so 2+ hours of retina abuse is not something attractive.
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well FUCK,, I was going to see this today,, now I don't know what to do...
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Brenda Curtis
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I think it looks like an awful movie and haven't been excited about it at all from the adverts. Shame-it could have been wonderful!
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I'm gonna go see it,, Disney has never let me down before ;)
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+Scott Reiboldt You must have missed "The Little Mermaid" :-)
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Tim Frasier
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I had not read the books, but saw the movie and thought it was a good, entertaining action-filled movie. This makes me want to read the books!
I did find JC reminiscent of Star Wars Ep. 1 but better, and I disliked Ep.1. The movies seem to fall short of the books even though I thought the LOTR trilogy was close. I can forgive a few creative liberties taken in the films as long as I am entertained. The musical score at the end of JC was very good.
I did find JC reminiscent of Star Wars Ep. 1 but better, and I disliked Ep.1. The movies seem to fall short of the books even though I thought the LOTR trilogy was close. I can forgive a few creative liberties taken in the films as long as I am entertained. The musical score at the end of JC was very good.
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$5.25 ,, I am going !! Pockets filled with snacks from home ;)
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I will probably read the book based on your recommendation.
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I'm gonna go see it also .
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Well, I'll concede that violating the spirit of the book will probably tic off lots of devoted readers, but it might be done for good cinematic reasons (or not). The task of capturing that spirit for every reader, however, is a hopelessly futile enterprise.
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I'm sure i'm among the purists. I'll probably wait for the DVD....then see how it matches up to new classics like "Apollo 18".
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i wanna see it.. waiting it come in india
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technically according to the strength displayed by John Carter on Mars, he can jump approximately 20m on earth and bench 14000 pound. He can also withstand hitting the ground at a speed of 174mph. In conclusion he is superman.
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Too bad..I am still a huge Edgar Rice Burroughs fan and would hate to see that it had been re-written for the movie.
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well I went but despite their website saying all 1st showings were 5.25 ULTRASTAR tried to charge me 8.25 even though there were 3 signs saying 5.25 for all 1st showings of ALL FEATURES ! Screw them, I wrote an email to their corp, if they do not make it right for my wasted time and gas I will go on an internet mission telling EVERYBODY NOT TO GO TO ULTRASTAR theaters !!! Yep, I'm pissed !!!!!
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+Tim O'Reilly It is funny.. my first thought when I saw the Spider-man movie was that they were aping John Carter of Mars finding his super strength in the books (though John Carters jumps in the book of 100's of feet are unrealistic for 1/3rd gravity.) Of course how that looks in everyone's heads is going to be different... mine was that of someone with 10x the strength of a normal martian versus just 3x.
I reread the first 2 books last month, and was wondering how much the Gods of Mars were "manipulating" things in the first book since they were the ones who ran the oxygen builders and had done other things. However, since ERB pretty much wrote stuff on a commission basis.. I realized the truth was "none".. but that it was something if I were doing a bunch of books in a series I would try to deal with.
I don't look forward to the lack of chivalry.. I guess it is hard in this day and age to have a former slave owner be not seen as some sort of villain.
I reread the first 2 books last month, and was wondering how much the Gods of Mars were "manipulating" things in the first book since they were the ones who ran the oxygen builders and had done other things. However, since ERB pretty much wrote stuff on a commission basis.. I realized the truth was "none".. but that it was something if I were doing a bunch of books in a series I would try to deal with.
I don't look forward to the lack of chivalry.. I guess it is hard in this day and age to have a former slave owner be not seen as some sort of villain.
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+Tim O'Reilly I was obsessed with reincarnation when I was a child. ;-)
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wew.. must watch this movie then!
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I enjoyed the movie. I am not sure what all the negativity is about.
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Having not read the book, so in judging the movie itself as its own entity, I loved it, one of the best movies I've seen all year. its was lots of fun.
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Watched it with the wife and kids. Didn't read the books. We enjoyed the hell out of it. It's funny, it's romantic, the CGI is great, the 3D is great, I don't care if the story wasn't like the books and I think it worked perfectly. I even had fun explaining some of the more complicated messages to my kids - it is not shallow. What more can you possibly expect from a Disney flick?
Go see this!
Go see this!
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Graham Lauder
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John Carter was my first introduction to Scifi when my grandfather gave an 8 yr old me, "Princess of Mars" the Classics Illustrated edition. I was hooked. It was that 8yr old who was giddily excited by the thought of John Carter on the big screen. One would think that hollywood should have learned from Lord of the Rings; if you want to make a classic into a movie, give it to a rabid fan.
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Thanks for the heads up +Tim Fairchild - may still go. Like many I so thoroughly enjoyed the ERB books as a kid, virtually devouring any that I could get my hands on. They were also my entry point to the wonderful fantasy art of the legendary Frank Frazzetta. Will be interesting to see if I can convince my kids to read any of the stories after this and whether they stand the test of time.
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I too love all the Burrough's books. My favorite, which you don't hear much about is, "The Mucker" and "Return of the Mucker". Billy Byrne is a great character.
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Tori Thomas
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I saw the movie and it had very good story line. Wether or not that was the same storyline as the book, I could not say as I haven't read the books. Anyone who hasn't read the book will definatly enjoy the movie. I know I did! :)
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+James McCleese Not sure who you're disagreeing with. I love your characterization of the book's John Carter. He was so much more compelling than the grief-deranged half-brute in the movie.
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+Terry Wisniewski Totally agree about The Mucker. I also loved it.
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Tim O'Reilly
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+Steve Montalto So glad you brought up Frank Frazetta. I wonder how art history will treat people like him and Jack Kirby, who so clearly created art loved by millions, but as "low art," not the "high art" that gets recognized in the academy. When people say books tell stories that are created solely in the imagination of the reader, they clearly weren't thinking of books with Frazetta covers!
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Seeing all the people who wrote that they enjoyed the film, I'm hoping I didn't put off anyone who would have enjoyed it. Go see it - what the hell - and tell us what you think.
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Tim O'Reilly
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+Brandon Johnston Whether or not John Carter as created by ERB was an accurate character is not the point. In many ways it is the very absurdity of ERB's characters that makes them so memorable. They are archetypes of a kind of man that we wish existed, designed to inspire kids to want to be better than they are. A huge part of what makes that early, romantic science fiction tick is that aspiration to be better, and to matter as a result.
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You made me watch the preview which looks fantastic. Will likely go see the movie.
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Freeman Pascal
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Tim, I have to disagree. We took the family to go watch the non-3D version this morning. Despite being primed by your comment to be disappointed, I found I enjoyed myself and liked the movie.
Sure the Thrines were a bit contrived, but they served to provide an explicit enemy for the audience to recognize and to tie Earth back into the story at the end.. Having read the books recently, John Carter didn't come across all the borish. I was disappointed that they did not work the romance angle the same as ERB did - I miss the whole "my princess" faux pas that our hero steps into and that eventually leads to their romance. I am glad they remembered to include Kantos Kan but hope they develop his character further in sequels.
I would say - go see it and enjoy the ride.
I should also say, this version is sooooo much better than the Traci Lords version, "Princess of Mars" :) I'm soo sorry I watched that.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1531911/
Sure the Thrines were a bit contrived, but they served to provide an explicit enemy for the audience to recognize and to tie Earth back into the story at the end.. Having read the books recently, John Carter didn't come across all the borish. I was disappointed that they did not work the romance angle the same as ERB did - I miss the whole "my princess" faux pas that our hero steps into and that eventually leads to their romance. I am glad they remembered to include Kantos Kan but hope they develop his character further in sequels.
I would say - go see it and enjoy the ride.
I should also say, this version is sooooo much better than the Traci Lords version, "Princess of Mars" :) I'm soo sorry I watched that.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1531911/
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I really liked this movie, much to my surprise. The previews don't do it any justice. I haven't the book, and I had never heard of it, so I thought it was going to be another cartoonish sci-fi film. But instead I was thoroughly entertained. So glad my wife dragged me to go see. Hope there's a sequel.
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I saw the movie.
I haven't read the books so i can't say anything about that. But.
1. I liked it
2. I liked it
3. I loved the dog
4. It was well done
5. I liked it
;-)
I haven't read the books so i can't say anything about that. But.
1. I liked it
2. I liked it
3. I loved the dog
4. It was well done
5. I liked it
;-)
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Saw it last night, and read the books. Quite enjoyed it, and hopefully waiting for a sequel.
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This movie was EPIC! and the story went well. I tried to make the jarjar binks connection and I could not. the green aliens in this movie very very intelligent for their level and were as advanced as they wanted to be. The only power they desired was tribal. the Red aliens were very well portrayed and gave me the sense of power hungry nations at war. This movie was filled with Awesome Steam Punk and tech that gave you cause to think of its origin and made me wonder if it would be possible to create. It was fun and exciting to watch. In realD 3D it was even better! the screen we seen this movie on was so clear it was just spectacular to watch. As a matter of fact I now want to read the books, and then the comics, then I want to own the movie. I might also go and see this film on Imax 3D and then watch it on large Sony screen 2D. it was that good, it was great, it was definitely Epic! And, at the end of the movie I was wanting another 30 minutes of movie at least. And we clapped during the movie and at the End!
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+Scott Reiboldt trust in your own judgement and go see the movie. I thought it was great.
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This movie is pure fun and adventure. I've read the entire John Carter series repeatedly and thought that Stanton's interpretation was respectful and entertaining. It's nice to have a sci-fi adventure that doesn't take itself too seriously. Yes, physics is bent to make the story work, but then we know there isn't a breathable atmosphere on Mars. Silly to pretend that we should ignore some science and stand fast on other scientific facts. As I said, pure fun.
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I have a quick question; If I read the book John Carter today would it be a good read or would it seems outdated?
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+James Besaw you don't watch many movies do you?
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YMMV, you're a troper?
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I liked the movie. I loved the books. They do hold up. These books were my first real introduction to SciFi. I was hooked at a very young age. While I was disappointed at the whole "adaptation" method employed by Stanton, all in all it was a fun movie, and one I thoroughly enjoyed.
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it was good but i had to leave a few min early for an emergency.
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Sounds like a movie for me. I'll really love it or love to hate it.
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Ridley Scott's Blade Runner is my sci-fi magnum opus which was actually an improvement on the Phillip K. Dick "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep". Prometheus the prequel to Alien will be out this June.
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The only correlation the Tharks had to Jar Jar Binks was they were both CGI. I am very glad I did not pay heed to this review as I enjoyed the film. I hope that people who were not going SOLEY because of this review reconsider.
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to 1. [x]
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Sad but true, they've wasted they opportunity.
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Sad but true, they've wasted they opportunity.
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Just watched the movie today, enjoyed it. Princess of Mars is one of my favorite pulp scifi books and though they did get some things wrong (Thars tharkas was too weak) - they got the general flavor right. The classic Virginian gentlemen in the book , while comprehensible to those of us in our 40's or 50's, would be incomprehensible to the young adults of today. These have watched the worst atrocities & disasters play out on their mobile phones or tablets near-real time. The John Carter as portrayed would probably remind them of their grandfather or great grandfather, recognizably from a different era but something they can emphasize in.
The book's stretch-up-your-arms-to-Mars and basically wish yourself there would also break the immersion of the modern audience - it would simply be too ridiculous to be even half believed. The bringing forward of a plot in another book and the introduction of the amulet transporter device is a neat way I think to fix that & foreshadow what's going to happen in the sequels.
Don't get me wrong , the movie has a number of significant weaknesses. But I think it's small miracle it got to this point and not as mangled as other Disney movies are (ie. Jungle book).
Ps. Agree with other commenter, I absolutely loved Woola :-)
The book's stretch-up-your-arms-to-Mars and basically wish yourself there would also break the immersion of the modern audience - it would simply be too ridiculous to be even half believed. The bringing forward of a plot in another book and the introduction of the amulet transporter device is a neat way I think to fix that & foreshadow what's going to happen in the sequels.
Don't get me wrong , the movie has a number of significant weaknesses. But I think it's small miracle it got to this point and not as mangled as other Disney movies are (ie. Jungle book).
Ps. Agree with other commenter, I absolutely loved Woola :-)
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thanks for the review, but I think no-one can beat the war of the worlds when it comes to completely changing the tone of the book from portraying colonizers as basically blood suckers(direct dig at the then British Empire) and the ill-effects of class system of the British system to the growing up of a man.
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So i so it yesterday and am left wondering why they had to reinvent the plot so much. I understand that they had to cut things to fit a movie time line. I just dont see how the Thern plot was needed to explain the war and hos travel to Mars. At lest the Tharks were not as Jar-Jat as I feared.
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For a number of years, Parkside Library was my local branch. ;)
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+Tim O'Reilly I have to say I think you are 100% wrong on this one. The character of John Carter was not brutish and stupid. He was very chivalrous . my review of the movie http://www.mi7.co/2012/03/john-carter-review-perfect-and-better.html
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I loved the movie. Sure, it deviates from the book but what's the point in making a movie if you want to make it just like the book? There's no way they could ever recreate what you imagined when you read the books. But Andrew Stanton created a lovely movie that kept me entertained and excited throughout. And I guess that's the point of making movies.
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i tend to believe that if a story is engaging enough that you want to make a movie from it, why change it so it doesn't resemble the source material? if you want to make a different movie, then make a different one. little tweaks aren't so bad, but major character & plot changes are really annoying.
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I am not surprised at the inconsistencies. It is difficult to expect any modern movie to be faithful to literary source material.
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Thanks for watching it for me. I wasn't sure I wanted to see it, but after reading your post, I'll just wait for it to come onto netflix.
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Maybe my standards aren't high enough, but sometimes it's enough to have a movie made from a source you love. Most people thought the Green Lantern movie sucked, but I, after reading and collecting GL comics for 50 years, was THRILLED that moviemaking had gotten to the point where it was possible to show it onscreen.
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+Eddie Bonifacio Yanguas-Johnson , John Carter is already coming to Blu-ray very soon. It's already in Amazon's catalog along with price listing and new cover art. http://goo.gl/I8lS2
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Tim, clear and cogent and accurate take on John Carter. I saw it with my dad and realized over dinner after that the plot holes were bigger for him than for me because I read and loved the book as a kid decades ago. There were fine moments, but the structure overall didn't hold together and the lack of chemistry between JC and DT was just sad.
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For those interested A Princess of Mars and many (if not all?) of Edgar Rice Burroughs books are available as ebooks for free through project gutenburg. I'm getting through it at the moment and I have to agree with +Tim O'Reilly that it's not very well written, and a bit tough to get through.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/62
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/62
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Looking back through some old posts I'd bookmarked and I found this. +Tim O'Reilly well said. The only thing I liked was Woola. Thought he was awesome, and a totally clever design. Other than him, the movie was utterly abysmal. How they could have made Burroughs this bad is beyond me. Orders of magnitude worse than GL's prequels. They at the very least had heart, and a reason to exist.
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