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Ariel Castro was found dead in his prison cell last night.

His attorney, Craig Weintraub, acknowledged this morning that many will likely say "good riddance," but said that he planned to "get to the bottom" of the circumstances surrounding the Cleveland kidnapper's death. "This is a human being," he told Savannah.
http://on.today.com/14XNODI
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York Cho's profile photoGavino Di Prossimo's profile photoNigel Ruff's profile photoJim Chatman's profile photo
31 comments
 
this psychopath didn't enjoy being locked up very much, did he?
 
What!!??!!.....That was far 2 easy! Yeah, he was a human but so were the victims. And he shuld hv spent those yrs n captivity! He wasn't a coward wen he did what he did! He shuld hv stood up and took his just dessert like a man! That was Cowardice!!!
 
Maybe we should give all criminals this option - to kill themselves?
It certainly would bring down the expenses for keeping them locked up and less need for more prison cells.
 
Buh-bye! Go ahead and get to the bottom of whatever you think you need to get to. This motherfucker started planning this from the day he was arrested. Remember how clever he was at hiding those women and all the atrocities he perpetrated? Well, he was just as clever at planning his own suicide. And he got over. On all of you. Again.
 
Oh wait! He was denied sex change surgery! That's why he killed himself! 
 
+K. Sorensen And how many innocents would kill themselves out of despair and depression?

That's a ridiculous recommendation and is completely heartless. To even suggest it puts you on the same level as the true criminals.
 
+Jim Chatman I'm not talking about innocent people, only criminals who was found guilty by the court of law should get the choice of killing themselves.
 
+K. Sorensen You're missing the point. Courts make mistakes all the time. The appeals process is filled with cases where people are actually innocent.

If they're depressed or suicidal because they feel the despair of being locked up despite their innocence, they would very likely be among the first to kill themselves.
 
Couldn't of happened to a better guy.  
 
+Jim Chatman unfortunately mistakes happens but I'm pretty sure it isn't that big a problem, especially after they started using DNA tests. Also the suspects are put through a mental test and if it shows any signs of depression or despair, they most likely will be sentenced  to undergo psychiatric treatment.
 
Your information seems to be in error. Yes, some cases have been reversed using DNA testing, but many remain in prisons because no DNA was collected. Human Rights Watch has examined this issue publicly for years. It bears remembering that the US has the highest rate of incarceration in the world, higher even than most of the world's dictatorships and theocracies.

Also, if a member of your family committed suicide in jail because they were distraught, a person that you personally felt was innocent, would you feel like simply writing it off as a "mistake"? I'd wager that you wouldn't. Imagine it happening to your child, spouse, or parent. Still find it unfortunate, or would you consider it tragic and worth changing the system?

I have no idea where you got the misinformation - although 'disinformation' might be a more apt term - that "the suspects are put through a mental test and if it shows any signs of depression or despair, they most likely will be sentenced  to undergo psychiatric treatment."

The "test" you're referring to is a verbal question asked when a suspect is jailed: "Do you feel depressed or do you feel like hurting yourself?", or its equivalent. If you think that constitutes a "test", then I find your definition to be fraught with lack of concern for your fellow humans.
 
Well I'm sure it wasn't an easy death like the one we would give him.
 
+Jim Chatman seems you really have some problems in the American justice system that needs to be fixed - I can only speak for European standards and they are obviously quite different from the US standards.
Of course no one wants to experience family members or friends to be mistakenly convicted, but I still believe and trust that the justice system works.
 
get to the bottom of what? He hung himself, how much more do you need to know? 
 
+K. Sorensen That, then, is where your lack of knowledge about the American criminal "justice" system falls apart. 

Here, as opposed to most of Europe, our system is a for-profit venture with large corporations like Corrections Corporation of America running many if not most of the prisons throughout the US. Our system from police to prosecutors to defenders to judges to therapists to counsellors and every other facet of the scheme manages to eke a profit out of incarceration. 

From Wikipedia: "The incarceration rate in the United States of America is the highest in the world today. As of 2009, the incarceration rate was 743 per 100,000 of national population (0.743%).[2] In comparison, Russia had the second highest, at 577 per 100,000, Canada was 123rd in the world at 117 per 100,000, and China had 120 per 100,000.[2]"

Our system has no desire to find innocence. None. Not unless you have money, and then the old adage about there being 2 rules, 1 for the rich and 1 for everyone else falls apart. There are no rules for the rich until such time as their peers begin to feel pressure by proximity. Also, the rate of persons-of-color incarcerated in the US far exceeds that of Caucasians. So the system is weighted toward bias against those of color.

Furthermore, if you've determined that it's acceptable for anyone going to prison to commit suicide if they choose, it would be essential to pick an as exact as possible number of people who chose to do so as would be acceptable. Moral courage would require the system - and it's your system since you're promoting it, so that means you - to pick a number you feel would be OK to you to die. Failure to do so would be a mark of moral cowardice, forcing someone else in the future after any possible number of deaths to retroactively choose how many is enough.

For the purpose of demographics, I would ask you the following questions, and for the record, I have not visited your profile or sought other information about you:

1) Are you white?
2) Do you consider yourself left-of-center, center, or right-of-center politically. Remember that the center in the US is often further to the right (conservative) than in most of Europe.
3) Do you consider yourself religious, and if so, what major belief system, e.g., Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Jain, Buddhist, Pagan, etc.
4) Do you consider yourself a right-to-life proponent? This is a huge issue in the US, especially where voluntary mortality is concerned because many who support the death penalty do not support abortion.

The demographic questions are for my own personal curiosity and do not come to bear on the aforementioned.
 
he didn't like the imprisonment. What an irony. 
 
I'm more of a " Right to Life for the innocent" pretty much to Hell with the guilty.
 
How can some one live after doing so awful n sinister.
 
+Jim Chatman Thanks for the lecture about the American justice system, I feel fortunate that I do not live there. It also makes it easier for me to understand why Americans think and behave like they do.
It’s not necessary to pick a number to decide how many who gets the option to commit suicide – all prisoners who are given the sentence prison for life should get the opportunity to end their own life.
I’m going to answer your questions, but first I want you to guess my answers.
 
+K. Sorensen It's easy to feel morally superior when you're removed from making the life and death decisions that every person on this planet is faced with every day. You, like many, elect others to make those decisions for you so that you don't have to...but can then sit back and feel superior.

As a former American soldier, and as a business owner who travels abroad regularly, I get that smugness from a lot of people, none of whom I've met yet who have ever had to actually make such a decision.

I would guess that you're Caucasian, right-of-center, of an Abrahamic faith - Christian is my guess, and you oppose abortion.
 
U do crime u sooner or later will pay for it u do it all to urself
 
+Jim Chatman Caucasian was correct.
I'm left of center (socialist but no communist). 
I'm not religious, I take responsibility over my own life and decisions I make in life - I don't need a religion to tell me what I can do and what I can't. So I don't believe that any God or Gods will judge me or my doings.
I oppose death penalty but advocate abortion.
I abhor racial and religious oppression.
... and I think that the US President/Congress is about to make the same mistake as they have done so many times before and failed. They really shouldn't attack the Assad regime because they can't finish what they will start there and Syria will become another Afghanistan and Iraq.
 
+K. Sorensen Then we find ourselves in accord in certain areas. I am Caucasian, Democratic Socialist, and atheist.

But I cannot reconcile your belief that people already at what is probably the lowest point in their lives should be given the opportunity to end their own lives.

For one reason, the purpose of long prison sentences, ostensibly, is to make prisoners pay for their crimes, to give them years to think about why they're in prison, not the easy route of suicide.

I also believe that prison should be a place where people go to be rehabilitated. Some European countries have made tremendous progress and have an almost non-existent recidivism rate. It would be a monumental undertaking here in the US to expect that for-profit prison corporations would happily turn over the keys to their profit centers, which is how they view their prisons, but our Justice Department under Attorney General Eric Holder is working to eliminate the largest group of prisoners completely - those caught in possession of marijuana, up to a certain amount. It's ludicrous that we incarcerated them to start with or that we still have marijuana laws on our books, given that most Americans think weed should be legalized.

I believe that if you months or years later asked people who were first asked about voluntary suicide and said yes - and obviously were not allowed to proceed with it - if they still wanted to commit suicide, most would say no and that they were glad they weren't allowed to go through with it.

Humans are surprisingly resilient and can snap back from tough times. I still believe that it would be criminal and unethical to ask them at the lowest point in their lives if they want to be allowed to commit suicide but who would later resent the decision had it been allowed. 

Plus, they deserve to sit in a jail cell and think about their crimes if they indeed committed them and weren't just falsely accused and convicted.
 
He may be gone but the women and child r still here dealing with what happened to them forget this waste and focus on something better!
 
I respect your view and concerns, I still think it would be an interesting option to chose yourself if you want to spend the rest of your life behind bars and be no use to society or to end your misery. There's really no point in rehabilitating them since they will never be let out into society again - it would be a waste of resources. I see no purpose for them to sit in prison and think of why they are there for life - it still won't undo their deeds. That's more about how the victims and their relatives will feel if they think they are having a tough time in prison repenting.
I agree with you on the marijuana issue, eventhough I think it's stupid to use it other than for medication, but hey if people want to risk fucking up their lives... as long as it doesn't make them psychopathic or schizophrenic.
 
+K. Sorensen We agree on marijuana, also...mostly. I think it's much worse on people's health than they think, and there seems to be some new evidence confirming that. I hate the stuff and it physically makes me sick, but as long as it's not abused - like alcohol can be, as well - and as long as there's a valid medical reason for it, I'm not opposed to its use, even recreationally. 

But you mention, in the suicide context, of allowing prisoners to end their misery. But misery is the very thing they bring to others, especially when they've taken someone's life. I don't see allowing them an easy out - something they didn't give their victims - has a positive advantage. I think it might even increase the murder rate since people who don't have the balls to kill themselves outright after they commit an atrocity might go ahead and commit the crime knowing they'll be allowed to off themselves in a controlled environment. I say let them sit and rot. Since we have to incarcerate people anyway, adding a few more isn't that big a deal. At least in the US it's not. We have jails sitting empty and that itself says a lot, too, since we also have the highest rate of incarceration. Seems like the prison industry is expecting a boom in new business.
 
+Jim Chatman I perfectly understand your point of view, but I just think that we give the criminals way to much attention by 'taking care of them' while they 'rot' in prison. I would prefer that they had to perform community service, but the way that the American prison system is working I'm not sure that will be possible - the labor they would be carrying out might compete with private companies.
 
+K. Sorensen You're right. I'd rather see them engaged in learning new skills and then putting to use in a community service setting, also. But, as you suggest, industries don't like it when that happens, even when it doesn't interfere with their profits.

It's frustrating. We're victims of our own runaway capitalism but we're so enthralled by it that most can't see it.
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