The lesson here: Nazis, mind yer owned damned business and if you can't do that then "fuck you". The power of Charlottesville is that a bunch of outsiders got told "fuck you" by a bunch of native sons and daughters. I predict the same thing will happen in every major city that the Nazis "march" in. If you give people a good reason to stand up, they will stand up. It might get ugly, but people will protect their neighborhoods, their neighbors and their nests. Believe it.
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- I think we have a bias in how we look at events. In your comment you wrote "if you give people a good reason to stand up, they will stand up. People will protect their neighborhoods and their nests.
Here's an article showing how White people in Chicago's Marquette Park neighborhood resisted the integration of their neighborhoods in the 1960s....protecting their nest. freedomroadproject.blogspot.com - "Massive Resistance" in Chicago's Marquette Park (1966)
These people are the "bad guys" in current public debate, yet from a different perspective, they were only "protecting their nests."
- Sadly, I think +Daniel Bassill has a point. As wonderful as it was to see everyday Americans standing up to hate in their hometown in Charlottesville (and later in solidarity all over the country), the Chicago example is much like the Boston busing issue in the 1970's. . . I was only a child, but there were neighbors of mine that were outside with bats and pitchforks, resisting integration and claiming they were protecting their homes and families.
I think the message is that people WILL protect what they feel strongly about, but sadly, not always for the noblest of reasons.5w
- You will note I didn't say "any reason". And I think a march by Nazi's with guns is a little different than resisting integration. I do take your point about insiders and outsiders and the care that has to be taken, but the situation in Charlottesville was an immediate threat by armed forces. What choice did they have? What would have happened had they not stood up? No one can say for sure, but those who were tracking these hate groups indicated that the Nazis viewed this as their Kristallnacht. And the antifa crowd was very mixed. What can I say? We know this narrative. We know what they want. Reports I have read indicated that without armed defense lots more would have been injured, even killed. “We would have been crushed like cockroaches if it were not for the anarchists and the antifascists… They saved our lives, actually. We would have been completely crushed, and I’ll never forget that.”
–Dr. Cornel West5w
- Yes, humanity has imperfect motives, but if we wait until they ripen to perfect then what? Do not forget what the motives are, avowed and open, for these so-called alt-right nationalist groups. Eradication. Extermination. Internment. Removal. And all manner of final solution. I can't imagine that the bad motives of whites in Chicago in 1964 have anything to do with confronting that head on.5w
- "a march by Nazi's with guns is a little different than resisting integration" -- absolutely true, but I think they're simply two parts of the same hateful continuum; and this was absolutely a necessary reason to stand up. Anyone coming to a protest armed with protective gear and weapons is seeking to do harm. Plain and simple.
I'm not disagreeing with you -- I'm just suggesting that folks who intend to do harm will find a way to take a positive thing like "protecting their own" and spin it to their cause. What I worry about is that the notion of standing up is easily twisted to justify events like integration resistance in Boston and Chicago to use them as fodder for more violent protests.
It's 2017 and we're still having to talk about this :( It's heartbreaking.5w
- Perhaps if Germans had resisted the Brown Shirts in the late 20's and early 30's with similar vigor as shown at Charlottesville we might have avoided the tragedies of WW2. The people resisting integration, and busing, were being fed "fear" by people who were taking advantage of the situation. Who's benefiting from the Nazi and alt-right movement? Follow the money.5w
- I think the real equivalence here is that all sides have failed. The failure began long before the march. Our systems and culture have failed. Charlottesville is evidence. I have just finished reading an incredible piece in Pionic, "Miyazaki’s Beautiful Antiwar Dreams". I was reminded of Miyazaki's incredible film, "Grave of the Fireflies". Please view it here: (https://archive.org/details/GraveOfTheFireflies1988).
I saw it when it came out in the U.S. (in '89)? My original outburst here reminded me of it and then I read the Pionic piece (https://pionic.org/miyazakis-beautiful-antiwar-dreams) The U.S. has been failing for a very long time. My own anger at Charlottesville is a representation of that failure. The only question left to answer is pretty simple: Our side or theirs? It is such a failure when we get to this false dilemma.5w
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