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Well, FWIW, I dont think there's a god per se in the biblical sense, no. But something that's been a part of every culture from the very beginning of history (or at least, as far back as we can go in the remnant sale of history), there's always something expressed as a kind of controlling force.

Now, Im not creationist, not by a long shot. But every now and then I do find myself wondering just where all this came from in the first place. Yep, Big Bang — got it. But what was here before the Big Bang? Anything at all? Had to be something in order for the Big Bang to even get started, so what was it and where did it come from? We know the universe is expanding, but expanding into what? What's on the other side of the furthest limit and what's that limit pushing into?

Bottom line: there's something out there, some power greater than our own, just as we're greater than ants or bees. I dont think it suggests any kind of hereafter with harps and clouds, but I hope that whatever it is clues me in a little bit when I leave this plane of existence.
+Sean Martin So you're implying a god was there before the Big Bang - so what created the god?
Nice analogy. Exactly true.
It's really time that such balderdash as god and religion left human mentality.
And about the controlling force, basically it has been existing since the dawn of ideology, and what else could it be, except ideology whose sole aim is to exploit its subordinates?
It's always terrible to find myself agreeing with someone I find to be kind of repulsive.
Please! Causativity has long been over-ruled. Hume did it through showing the fact that causative interpretation is only an inductive misunderstanding.
Again, not saying it's a god. It's a controlling force, which is a very different thing. Has nothing to do with religion or faith or anything else of that quasi-medieval nonsense. But obviously all this came from something — and the consistencies in construction suggests more than just a happy accident. Again, whatever it might be probably has no more interest in us as humans than we do in the flies we kill in the summer. It's just there... somewhere.

And yes, it does raise the tantalizing question of where did it come from. I dont know. No one, not you and not +mohamad hosein talebi zade can say with 100% certainty. Your belief is no more valuable than mine, because we're all just floating around in the darkness on this one. But to deny the existence of something that's been part of all human culture for millenia... c'mon. We're clearly hard-wired to think about this, so why not explore it?

No, Jesus did not ride a dinosaur. No, the earth is not six thousand years old. But if the universe can extend forward into limitless time, why cant it extend back as well? And if it can — in a limitless way — then something was here before the Big Bang. Just simple logic.
Mike Boaz
+Sean Martin that controlling force is a manifestation of a portion of our brain that human beings use to better empathize with others by generating a narrative to explain external events. That portion of the brain though tries to generate narratives for every external event that it comes into contact with (whether it is appropriate or not)... it is one of the reasons why human being from time immemorial have anthropomorphized animals and natural phenomena (and still do today).

The idea of the deity comes from narratives generated by this portion of the brain spread down through the ages as stories. When once it was used to explain the unexplained like weather, animals, and death... it now is used to create narrate purpose behind uncontrollable events (accidents, disasters, and death still).

The fact is there is no evidence of a controlling force in the Universe that has a purpose or a will. That is simply a structure that we create because it is comforting to our brain to do so.
Why does it have to be a controlling force of anything? Controlling stuff is a human concept, one that we push onto our supposed deities. It helps the primitive side of us to understand that something is in control, it helps us fall asleep at night, and to lead our lives in relative comfort. Hell, something has to be in control right? I mean, I can't be assed to make my own decisions and take my own responsibility, or gasp, even think for myself.

I like to think we all came from the biggest orgasm the universe ever had.
GIven how little we know about the universe, I dont know that you can say that with certainty, sorry. We're looking at it through a keyhole and trying to imagine what the rest of the room looks like.
Jess Nut
Every culture has a being that resembles a vampire and a creature that resembles a dragon... does that mean they must exist?
You automatically think that whatever behind the keyhole is controlling something though, which is just as silly.
Science is indistinguishable from magic to people/cultures not advanced enough to understand it. There's still a lot of things we don't understand, so those with narrow vision immediately attribute it to magic.


I don't care if people believe in invisible old men in the sky or angels or whatever. I know what I believe, and that's enough for me. Again, the objective is not to set up precedent to oppress or disregard one side or the other for fear of retribution should the other come into the majority. Where's the tolerance?
+Phillip McCabe : perhaps "controlling" isnt the right word, but again, consider the analogy of us to it as insects are to us. Your theory makes humans the pinnacle of creation. Who says that's so? We may be rank amateurs on the evolutionary scale compared to what;s out there. Once again, I'm not calling this whatever it might be "God". This has zip to do with religion. But I dont think we need to be so egocentric as to believe that we're the be all and end all in the universe.

Biggest orgasm the unverse ever had? Even an orgasm needs a build up.
+Sean Martin That is a logical fallacy known as the God of the Gaps... just because we do not have evidence of everything does not suggest the existence something phenomenal in the fuzzy areas of our knowledge.
I dont know why you guys insist on making this into a discussion about the existence of God. That's not what I[m saying. What I'm saying is very, very different.
Well said Phillip McCabe. It's exactly our kind of reading of the matter, whereas for the non-intellectual nature from which we have emerged, there's no such thing as order, goal and at the same time control. It's an inevitably evolving system that DOES NOT DECIDE ANYTHING.
And for the fact of its origin, I believe we're to damn small in front of the whole thing, both spatially and temporally, to even make a simple proposition.
+Mike Boaz , true enough. But the "God of the Gaps" is a human concept. Anyone consider that maybe, just maybe, there's more out there than just us?
Well, bravo for figuring that out! That's precisely what I[m saying. And I will add to it that, in our smallness, we are no more prepared to say categorically one way or the other. I just believe in leaving the door open.
+Sean Martin I'd just ignore him. He appears to be a hateful person sure that there's apparently no other life in space that could come and flatten us in a second. I mean, if an alien shows up tomorrow, and tells us that our science is wrong, who you gonna believe? Them (who traveled a hundred thousand light years in a lifetime) or Mike Boaz, Internet nerd?
What's the point?!? Are you asking seriously? Where is your sense of curiosity or wonder?
Glad you know for sure, sir. I'll have that translated into Latin and added to the family crest post haste. :-)
+Sean Martin Yes, there is obviously more out there than just us... my issue is that making the assumption that something supernatural exists in the unknown is counter productive to the purpose of discovery and science.
I'm not saying we are the pinnacle of evolution, Raptors were. They were very clever girls.

We as humans need to understand that there is no guiding force, no mysterious hand that will make our lives easier, or will reward us when we're good, or punish us when we are wicked. That's fuckin Santa talk there. By believing that the Big Bang happened because it happened, we can eliminate the human fallacy and try to figure out how it happened. There is no "why did the Big Bang happen?" question, because putting it into those terms mean we believe it happened for a reason, which would ascribe a mysterious force that "controls" Which never helps us in the first place. I too believe that there might be some force out there that does stuff, and some cool shit has happened, but if it did have a hand in what we have today, it clearly doesn't give two shits about the whole thing now. So why bother with it?

On this planet, we are evolutionarily the top dogs when it comes to critical thinking and reasoning.
And for the matter of aliens, I'd just say: well, why don't we give up our whole proof-based science in favor of our favored illusions, whether of aliens or gods or apocalyptic incidents, etc.?
Ted Ewen
Sorry, but what?
There is no art. If every trace of any single artist were wiped would never be created exactly that way again.
There are equally valid geometric models to the Euclidean. If all of Mathematics were wiped away, Euclidean geometry would go with it. Is it really guaranteed that the Euclidean model would be the one we ended up with if we started clean?

No, its a decent sight-bite, but doesn't really hold up.
Well, Saying there is no art is like saying there is no Religion, not no God. That is a little bit different. Also, art, like religion, is interpretive; [Most] Science is not.
Well, I'm amazed by you people's obsession with aliens. I mean what's the big fuckin deal with some joke of living things to be added to us here?! Aren't we just enough here? And sir, What does a movie tell you of what happens around?
No offence intended to anyone, but my only complaint about this is that one can no more prove this as "truth" than another can prove that there is a God or Gods. The existence or nonexistence of a deity or deities is not provable by current science, nor is it disprovable, and insisting either side is "truth" or "fact" is arrogant, self-righteous, and, IMHO, simple douchehattery. Agree or disagree with each other all you want, but belief is not fact, whether it's a belief in a deity or a belief that there is none, and both sides should be respected and respectful. Can't we all just agree to disagree?

Personally, I think science and religion should coexist peacefully but separately, just as I feel government and religion should coexist peacefully but separately. I also think government and science should coexist peacefully but separately. The problems don't arise from one being right and the other being wrong, they arise from each side trying to brow-beat the others into submission, even passive-aggressively.
+Sean Martin I was serious. And I accidentally deleted my post LOL

What I wanted to say was I agree with you that there may be something greater out there that could instantly flatten us and possibly take over. What they are railing about has nothing to do with what you're talking about, because they are apparently angry at religion.

Organized religion - the fallacy of man to assume he's not in control and that instantly magic is possible. Nutty atheism - the fallacy of man to assume he is in absolute control and that our science is infallible.
The fact there's religion in every culture is mainly a reflection of the fact there are humans in every culture, with the same need to find a simplified explanation for things they don't or can't understand. It's a lot easier to make up a mythology about a controlling divinity than work out the real reasons why thing happen (if you even can.) And it's even harder for all of us to admit that sometimes there are things we just can't explain, and that doesn't mean there's an explanation - it just means we're not smart enough to figure it out (yet.)

We make fun of islander cargo cult religions, but the major faiths aren't really any different at the end of the day.
If we're going to go all psychological about the science of religion:

We all have coping mechanisms for our problems. Religion is one of them. Like all coping mechanisms, there is no way in Heck you are going to get rid of every single one that irritates you. So feel free to rail on about it on the Internet, dudes.

Oh and I love the guy arguing about the non-existence of aliens like we should only worry about ourselves. That's what various civilizations in the past thought about themselves, and then they were totally unprepared and unable to stop superior/more organized unknown civilizations from rolling over them. To assume you should only worry about your backyard is moronic.
Sir, I'd rather believe what I have at least some proof for, than to believe in things that have never ever been supported by one proof of any kind. To think of "greater things out there" is as easy as to imagine that there's a giant deer on whose horns the world exists. One could say that and add to it the fact that it's impossible to refute it, and be right. But does it really mean that it's true?
To negate is always way more difficult than to posit.
Penn's Sunday School. Good podcast, in it's beginning stages so there are some rough spots; but there is a surprising amount of non-religion talk.

Also? +Sean Bonner does this intentionally. Which is why I like him so much (no homo).
+Nathan EmCeeKhan very true! Religion is a coping mechanism. Religion is also an excuse for extremist violence against people who do not believe as you do, an excuse for good people to do bad things, and an excuse for bad people to do worse things.
It's not the coping part I have a problem with, it's when people use it as a reason to do things. Usually terrible things.
+Mike Boaz >> "my issue is that making the assumption that something supernatural exists"

But see, there's the problem. You say it's "supernatural". I dont. I dont know what it might be, but supernatural? In the sense of unicorns and pixie dust? Hmm. Nope. Sorry. Kinda past that concept at this point. :-)
I beleive in Sock Gnomes +Sean Martin how else do I end up with only one out of a pair, every time i do laundry
+mohamad hosein talebi zade >> "I'd rather believe what I have at least some proof for"

Who says the proof is anything you can comprehend? I doubt you could "prove" nuclear fission to an ancient Egyptian. Should we then not believe in it?
+Phillip McCabe I agree totally. That's why I don't include myself as a member of any one particular religion. I support people having religious beliefs (or lack thereof), but I am against the oppression of other people's freedoms and I am against organized religious institutions.
Sorry, but I find it vastly amusing that everyone's trying to frame this as a "religious" argument. In my mind, it's not. It has zip to do with religion or the concept of a benevolent diety. But hey, as long as you want to get hung up on that... :-)
Well, nothing further sir. enjoy your illusions of no proof and high brilliance. And don't forget to watch your back for your unexplained, raw, illogical, daydreaming of those fearsome aliens that will probably destroy YOUR race soon!
And Sean, I say that I could comprehend proof, and for the matter of those "ancient Egyptians", bring them to me; I'll prove it to them!!!
One interesting question I always have for someone who's (aggressively) religious: why your religion, and not any other, aside from it happens to be the one you prefer? I can see rational arguments pro/con religion overall; I have yet to see a great argument for one particular religion over all overs, aside from "those guys are crazy."
+Sean Martin New Age quantum physics mysticism is just as bad as unicorns and pixie dust. The "documentary" What the #$*! Do We Know!? drives me crazy with its conflation of science and mysticism and that is honestly the direction I saw you going with your original response speaking of a powers greater than ourselves or controlling forces in the universe.
+Sean Martin Honestly, I can see how this could be considered as an attack on religion, so yes, it does have to do with religion o.o The quote is basically saying that anyone who believes there is a God or Gods is just plain wrong, but he has no viable proof one way or the other, because there is no way to accurately even test such a hypothesis as true or false, so this is essentially a verbal attack on people with religious beliefs. It's telling them they are wrong for having them, and that I can't agree with. They can be wrong for trying to verbally push their beliefs on the others around them, but that's exactly what the quote is doing as well, so is he really being the "better man" by verbally attacking the simple act of having religious beliefs? I don't believe so.
LOL Man, there can't be any aliens because there's no proof of them. That's like telling the American Indians 600 years ago that there's no white men because there's no proof of them in North America!

Anyway, I have a problem with fanatics of all kinds +Phillip McCabe. Religious, non-religious, Trekkies, etc. People do a lot of awful things for a lot of reasons, including religious ones. The objective is to minimize the damage and take the higher road by showing tolerance. You don't get rid of cockroaches by dropping a nuclear bomb. You learn to live with the fact there are cockroaches in the world (pardon the comparison of religious people to cockroaches - the analogy fit, so ...)
There are animals in the Amazon that will go thru their entire life without seeing one human. So I guess we don't exist because those that cannot see us define our existence. Those that claim to believe in science should know that "our" existence has been calculated to be a mathematical impossibility with a number that has 100 zeros behind it.

The arrogance to believe that you hit the universal lotto when you can't win a 7 eleven scratch off, points to the real facts, anyone who would make up their mind of our existence based on your millisecond of life in comparison to the 13.5 billion years that that something has existed is not only arrogant, but supremely foolish.

A man can't even prove his own existence, it is only because of the acknowledgment of others that you exist.
I have read different "holy" books of different religions. Honestly, all talk of exactly the same. And they come all to the same conclusions (while they use different stories and words to communicate the same conclusions). Penn just has no overview of the religions. Otherwise he would see this. Additionally, I have to mention that his words on religion are true for science, too. If you would wipe out all science papers, there would be science papers again, but not exactly the same science papers.
+Marc Trömel that's a pretty bold claim; obviously the dominant European religions have similar frameworks, but you're saying that religions that evolved out of contact with European culture have similar conceptual frameworks? South America, South Pacific, Inuit, Bhuddist, Aborigine?
I believe there is a God. To say their isn't a God seems ludacris to me. I didn't believe God was real until he started getting my attention and giving me proof. I want to challenge all of you to at least give this some study. It's worth it.
Technically Penn is wrong on this one. Given an infinite amount of time, anything that is possible, like coming up with a set of beliefs, will happen an infinite number of times. Of course, that doesn't mean the teachings are true.
+Tom Karlo In deed yes. However, you are right I haven't read all holy books ;-). I have just read the bhagavad gita (hindu book), Paulus (bible), Spinoza (Jewish), and a summary of sayings of buddah. The core is absolutely identical: be good. Help others. There is the one that is all. If you are good, you will profit from this after your dead. All the rest are just enteraining backround stories to remember and to reflect these things. (And of course some mysticism for the ones, that need it)
I'm only telling you what I believe to be true just like Sean Bonner did when making this post. How should my opinion not matter just because it's different?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL "false opinion." That literally makes no sense.
Mr penn and others have not read yet or read the new testament of the Holy Bible yet either, I suggest you start one chapter a day. Then rewrite your life when you realize u and all of us do have a Creator.
shut the hell up stupied
+Sammy Chip Chun You can't say an opinion is false. Opinions can't be false. Even though I don't agree with this persons beliefs , they can choose their own path . But good for you for believing ! (:
Why so many down comments?
Oh wait....that`s how people control the internet.
Humans are too complex to have been made by chance. Why don't we stop cussing and have some real conversation?
The fool has said in his heart there is no GOD. Self explanatory.
theres noway in hell that god is not real,how could say something like that, thats crazy.your nutz
+Tom Karlo I nearly forget to mention one aspect, that also apears in all books. God is everything. In everbody of us there is a peace of God. You are not your body.
Why is it that the level of discussion (and quality of grammar) always degrades when those that profess knowledge of the unknowable start posting comments?

A curious phenomena...
Sean Martin how can you give the example: just as we're greater than ants or bees.

We humans are as equal as any living thing on this planet. With out bees ants basically your referring to small creates like insects we humans would most likely wouldn't exist. Earth has grown to the way it is now because how everything has worked together. Unfortunately we humans are now ruining natures natural balance.
This is hilarious. All of the Christians are bringing proof, and all of the atheists are just getting mad and not saying anything to prove their stand. Lol!
i only have one thing to say and then im out, all u guys r stupid, there is a God and if u guys choose to not believe that, then i feel sorry for u guys cause all u guys will be going to hell, bye! :)
+Gabriella McGee To say there is a God seems ludicrous to me. I have given it much study and there is simply no evidence. If someone walked up to you on the street and said they had the cure to all of your ailments in a needle would you let them inject you or would you ask them for proof first?
+Mike Boaz It's not really about claiming knowledge of the unknowable. I claim to know next week's lottery numbers every time I buy a ticket. :) It's about challenging the legitimacy of the way people lead their lives that causes trouble.
Nice circular logic you've set up there Penn. There is no God, so therefore if religion were to be re-established, it would be different, this statement is based on your assertion that there is no God, therefore circular.
Lol we were having a good discussion before the mindless zealots chimed in too :-(
From a purely philosophical point of view I just find the statement flawed. The first four arguments presented gives too strong a case for at least some sort of creator:
+Jess Nut I wouldn't say they exist but isn't it facinating that cultures that never knew of each other seem to always have strikingly similar dieties. I mean hey, why did the egyptians and the aztecs like pyramids so much? I am not saying there is no god or there is a god or gods for that matter. Just think with as little as we's kind of hard to say yes or no.
+Sammy Chip Chun I think you're a bit out of line there; +Nashka 'ScreamMyNamee is correct. Opinions are neither true nor false. The only thin you can say is that you think it's stupid, because that is also an opinion, or you can try to show her how her opinion is based on false information and therefore misinformed. But to presume to tell her or anyone else that their opinion is false is just plain stupid.
That statement works, as long as one (or more) of those religions wasn't true, if there is a true Divinely motivated religion in witch God directs, then it will be recreated, and it will be the same.
+Gabriella McGee There is no proof of God. If there was, there would be no faith, which is the basis of Christianity.
can't you see that, that man is bold enough to say something like that,i only got one thing to say to u your selfish and thinks only on your big fat bald head.shutttt uppppppppppppp..............
Brittanie - Based on what seems to be the criteria for going to "Hell" it sounds like all the rational and interesting people will be there, making it sound much more pleasant than "Heaven." But since neither of those places exist it really doesn't matter. I know where I'm going when I die: A grave.
I try not to mistake the unknown for a deity. It just confuses me and others. I just say: "I don't know"...and then set about trying to find out.
What proof of god is there?

I've yet to see his signature on any of his works. Show me concrete evidence that god has answered any prayer, and I will change my mind.

I can tell you, atheists don't have to prove anything, ask your self what type of god would allow the massacre of children in his name in Africa? I'll tell you, its followers of the christian god, using the holy texts written by sun blasted shepherds, who had no clue the earth was round, what an atom was, abs still considered women property.
I'm loving the mature and well reasoned arguements of nuh uh, shut up, and you suck. Very convincing.
+Kevin Burger I have read one proof of god, written by spinoza in the 16th century. It was one whole book and very scientific. He made an definition of god and then proofed the existence. One problem all of us in this thread is, that everybody has a different definition of god. Therefore we will never agree. However, there are definitions of god that can be proofen.
Do I get this guys are trying to use logical argument to persuade someone as to the existence of God ? If you can believe in such a thing, logical argument is unnecessary, you believe because "it is written". I don't believe because "it does not make sense". "God is everything???" "You are not your body???". If you can accept that, logic is beyond you.
You are preaching. The one main thing that I hate about most religions is that they try to indoctrinate me into their way of thinking. For some reason, they believe that their way is the ONLY way. They forget about the old saying, "To each, their own." Are these people so afraid that their dogma would be lost if less people believed the way they do? I don't care if you believe in a Higher Power or don't believe. It doesn't affect my spirituality because of a simple, two-letter work known as, "My." My Higher Power means that you do not have to follow my belief system. Therefore, there is no reason to preach to you about what to believe in and what not to believe in. If you are truly an athiest, then what do you care if I was a superstitious, idol-worshipping, rosary-bead-counting, peyos-growing, kneeling-five-time-a-day, pot-smoking-Zion-coptic, Zen-Buddhist, God-fearing, or whatever else religion that is out there type of person. I say you can believe in God, in dog, or in yourself. But the main thing that is most important is Keep It To Yourself! Join an organization and play bingo with each other for all I care but stop trying to convince me that you are right and that everyone else is wrong. Ther is no right or wrong on this issue. And there is no harm if my money says, "In God We Trust" or not. Afterall, no one is trying to tell you how to im\nterpret the word, "God" are they? So for all I know, you interpret the word to mean Penn Jillete! Of course if my money did not say "In God We Trust", then it wouldn't be worth anything (it would be counterfeit) so if you still don't believe it should be written on your money, I will supply you with a bank account number and you may deposit all of it there and be rid of the evil stuff!
+Ariel Merriman According to Pope John Paul II, hell isn't a place, but it is a life without God. As an atheist, I must say, Hell is a pretty good place to be.
So not true!!!! God probably loves everyone but not you because you said that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+Phillip McCabe I understand your argumentation. What would be, if someone says to you the name of everything that exists is "god". And you are part of this god. Can you now understand how "god" can allow all this terrible things.
I think XTC summed everything up rather nicely in their 1986 song, Dear God.
+Marc Trömel Do you happen to remember the name of the book? I'd like to give it a read if I get a chance.
what proof of science is there? Lois Pastuer busted the idea of spontaneous combustion with his exeriment on raw meat.
u r a lie i believe in god !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+Angela H Science may never end up explaining everything, because every time we learn something, we have questions about why what we just learned is the way it is.
The big bang is stupid. What if I said that your house just ended up there by some explosion. Would you believe me? Even if something has to be started by somebody. A builder had to come out and build it. We are an advanced civilization that can reason, love, cry, and laugh and that was all by chance. No way! The earth sits far away from the sun for a reason. To far and we would freeze. To close and we would fry. The asteroid belt has been set for a protection. We see wind but we know what it can do right? Can you not see the works of God when you go out. Look at the stars, trees, animals. Coming from monkeys is a dumb idea. First if we did there wouldn't be monkeys because they all evolved or second we would still see evolution taking place. You cant rule out religion by human ideas that where never proven or never will be. The bible shows that the earth is round. And its been around longer than Christopher Columbus. Enough said.
"There is no God,and that's the simple truth" is logically the same as "There is a God, and that's the simple truth." Bonner has no objective proof as to God's non-existance, yet states his faith in no God as if it were an objective fact. We who believe in God do the same. Relax, Bonner, all of us are going to find out the truth sooner or later.
God or no God, this do I say unto you: be wary of anyone who claims a monopoly on salvation, for they shall control you materially. The best possible future is a common wealth that ought not be abrogated by economic or theological means.
How does Penn know this? Does he have scientific proof?
+Marc Trömel what about the wide range of religions over time that haven't claimed to believe in a "God"? Animist, etc? Do they also believe that "God is everything" despite the fact that they don't have any such concept? Or in your view, does that disqualify them as a religion?
Slight flaw, your theory doesn't take account of the many worlds that are not in the same position as Earth. We are only here because by statistical probability we are able to exist in this form here. If the universe did not develop in such a way we would not. There is no need to have a creator; we can just be.
Asking whether the god exists or not? is like asking whether existence exists or not? OSHO
+Kevin Burger It is The Ethics from bachus spinoza. However, I have to warn you. Very difficult to read. It took me two years.
I find that very offensive! I believe there is a God and I believe that He did send His Son Jesus to die on the cross for my sins. I don't find this kind of thing acceptable.
I wish Penn wouldn't confuse God and religion as the being same thing.
Yes -- if we wipe out religion, it would never come back the same way. But that has nothing to do with God. Religion is a story told to make people feel better. It is also meant to control a population. It is NOT God. In fact, these days, religion has very little to do with God.

To bring this back to the analogy-if we wipe out science - gravity is still there, we just have less of an understanding of it.

Now, whether or not there is a spiritual force (God) or not is another discussion altogether--and one best had without religion entering in to confuse things.
But.. but.. they are one and the same... the holy trinity and blah blah blah. At least Magic can be fun.
can u prove it???? NNNNOOOO i trust in GOD!!!!!! Well u can believe what ever u want but if not God u wouldn't be here now:)
Very true! I find it very amazing that the only people who ever speak the truth and are spot on are comedians.
+Kendall Rice All of these things seem improbable, because your perspective is wrong. If, by chance, these circumstances didn't come to pass, you wouldn't have consciousness to think about how unfortunate that is.
+Fred Krueger so you think that stage magicians are actually using magic? or you think that the bible is more believable than an optical illusion? i can't imagine how you could think that your comparison is valid. but then, mental deficiency would explain why you believe in god and christ. if you think that what mr. jillette has stated above is not true, then there is no hope for you anyways since you obviously do believe in magic, and penn obviously does not.
Just because YOU don't believe in God, doesn't mean there is not one.
If you believe in God, you believe it to be a fact that he exists, and IF it is a fact, it will be rediscovered eventually.
Its better to accept that there's a GOD, it takes nothing. But if U don't believe and there is one then you are in real trouble, so Keep your faith in GOD and enjoy both Life and Afterlife.
Love you AALLL
there is a god jesus christ
You're absolutely right +Cameo Elise Ames there's no way you can look at all of that and say that it all just happened by one giant freak accident. It took millions of years of evolution
I'am SO Proud because i believe in Allah the creator of this universe and beacuse am Muslim... the Holy Qura'n which came before 1400 years you'll find the Exact answer of the creation of this world which talk about the Big bang
lol You didn't discover it beacuse muslims know this since 1400 years and since 1400 the lord talked to you the people of this time not for people at that time... who can understand the next line will be surprised !

أولم ير الذين كفروا أن السماوات والأرض كانتا رتقا ففتقناهما وجعلنا من الماء كل شيء حي أفلا يؤمنون
( الأنبياء : 30)
the Above line talking about the big BANG :)
it is from the Holy Qura'n

the embryology discovered the Stages of embryo formation before 15 years or 20 ...but Allah told us how this happen this in the Holy Quran at the Human Sorah (Chapter) :
قال الله تعالى: {وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الإِنسَانَ مِنْ سُلالَةٍ مِنْ طِينٍ * ثُمَّ جَعَلْنَاهُ نُطْفَةً فِي قَرَارٍ مَكِينٍ * ثُمَّ خَلَقْنَا النُّطْفَةَ عَلَقَةً فَخَلَقْنَا الْعَلَقَةَ مُضْغَةً فَخَلَقْنَا الْمُضْغَةَ عِظَامًا فَكَسَوْنَا الْعِظَامَ لَحْمًا ثُمَّ أَنشَأْنَاهُ خَلْقًا آخَرَ فَتَبَارَكَ اللَّهُ أَحْسَنُ الْخَالِقِينَ} [المؤمنون: 12-14].
the scientists was saying that the meat comes before the bone>>and Allah said in the Holy Quran that the bone come before the meat !
and then they discovered that they were WRONG and THE BONE COME FIRST!
TILL NOW and Later ...NO proved scientific fact could conflict with Quran ...GO TO READ People then TALK ...any way I WAS NOT a BELIEVER BUT THANKS TO ALLAH THAT I FOUND THE TRUTH
I'm guessing that strategy might not go over well in the afterlife ("God: let's see, the only reason you believed was to make a good bet?") ;-)
Sounds to me like he is trying to convince himself!!
+Marc Trömel thanks for the heads up and the warning. I'll give it my best shot though, it sounds interesting. Hopefully there's an English translation. :)
+Kendall Rice Um, saying "your house just ended up there by some big explosion" is basically the watchmaker fallacy. A house is a human construction. Man made. The parts for it have no natural affinities to one another. The things in the universe didn't happen "by chance", nor did they happen by "design", they happened through a complex process of trial, error, and natural selection. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's stupid.
So +Mike Creighton , what's the point of religion if it has "very little to do with God". And, which god are we talking about anyway? I'm fine with people believing in God, providing they aren't religious while they're doing it!
This is lame. If atheist spent their time dispelling the myth of government rather than religion, we'd all be better off.
Trust me, science is going to draw a blank somewhere, sometime.
If science never drew a blank, there would not be any dispute over God and evolution, there would be one, uniform, creation.
And no one would ever argue over the truth.
How's them apples?
who would that be someone???if that someone was never created.....there still lies a mystery that yet needs to be is just one of the path chosen by us so as to know the truths...but who knows that if we are really knowing the truth...bcz the basic law of science is in a state of being proven wrong..???? is just the name given to truth that we r assuming which is always in a state of being contradicted :P
Why hold the opinion of a man who makes his living by creating illusions in such high esteem?
I'm with +Ted Ewen. Cute soundbite but it doesn't stand up on closer examination. You could replace "religion" with "art" or "philosophy" or whatever you want. And who knows? Perhaps, if you wiped out all art, religion, and philosophy it would all be as it was? We can't know that. Hell ... science doesn't even remain constant. The science we have now and the science we all thought was fact 50 years ago is vastly different. the science we have today and the science we will have tomorrow will be totally different.

But hey, don't let me get in the way of all of you telling each other to fuck off.
Oh wow. This is a brilliant way to think of religion and science
What's he going to say when the space Jews arrive and the great circumcision begins.
+Mohammad.M .Dabbour
Just as crazy as the Christians who try to say they're the one one who are correct and the holy bible cannot be disproved.
+Joreth Rogers science draws a blank all the time. There's so much we don't know. But we search for answers none the less.
rudy s
+Raja Mubeen Manzoor believing in something you don't believe in is not on hypocritical but also not really faith.
It would kind of cool to be able to have a fresh new take on technology and figure it out all over again. Things have become so complex.
Back in the 80s people could get by fine just on some basic Turbo Pascal skills and it was deemed that there were nothing wrong with them.
His conclusion is based on the assumption that there is no deity interested in our knowing her/him/it. It's total circular reasoning. Because, if there is such a deity, it is impossible to conclude that said deity would not reveal his/her/itself the same way again.

Logic fail. I expect better of Penn. Bummer.
+Tom Karlo good question. In my opinion animism is often one aspect of a relegion. Not all religions believe in this concept. However, animism believs in a soul, which exists in everything. I don't think you need the concept of god for a religion. The important aspect of religions is, that they draw the same conclusions from there observations of the world. Thank you for the question. I think I know what I read next. ;-)
Just a note to this discussion: The Big Bang Theory, aside from being an entertaining television show, is in fact yet another theory. There has yet to be any conclusive proof that Macro-Evolution has ever taken place, merely theory and conjecture about how we humans "think" a great explosion that started from nothing spawned micro-organisms that somehow over billions (or trillions) of years went through a still unproven macro-evolutionary cycle that developed plant life that takes a biological waste (CO2) and converts it to Oxygen which is then used by these bio orgs. And just exactly how did inorganic matter fold and morph into complex life forms capable of complex thought and scientific process that to date, with all of our scientific and technological prowess, still fails to be able to create organic life from inorganic matter? Guess that sounds about as possible as the presence of a Divine Life Form that was able to create the universe as the Life Form exists outside the realm of space/time. Both are theories. One unbelievable, the other illogical, except that throughout history, the Divine continues to be sought after by person after person, and culture after culture to help explain the inexplicable. Personally, I find it odd that the only possibility of explaining the most mysteries of science lie in the potential presence of a Divine Creator. May God bless and enlighten you. ;-)
+carrie skaggs If God exists, and we are ignorant, it would be because he made us this way. Should he not show mercy on his creations being as he made them, then he is not fit to be worshiped.
Fred, you sir are an idiot. Nuff said.
The new formulation of science would be completely distinct from the science that we understand today. It would be equally useful, predictive and replicable in how it measures time, motion, interactions, etc... but the symbology, mathematics, and models that it would use to make measurements and predictions would be completely new and unfamiliar.
just cause Americans think they are smart doesn't mean we can always figure stuff out. Clearly we don't know everything about our past so how the hell do u know there is no such thing as God. Last time I checked it was impossible for u to be alive then so u wouldn't know. U r aloud to have an opinion but don't go around having a stupid one and using "everyone is aloud to have an opinion" as ur stupid excuse. And BTW no one has PROVED there is no God so ur stating a false fact. So not only do u annoy people with ur "there is no God", gay, stupid statement but ur stating something false that u r saying is a fact that is actually not. DOI
I don't see the relevance of this quote. Religion is manmade and God is not. So of course this quote from Pen and Teller (whatever his name is) is true. Religion is not what makes God exist. God would still exist without it. While religions typically base their belief systems around a God, the reality is there is little correlation between the two. I believe strongly in God but have no religion.
That's awesome! Thanks for sharing.
It was religion that most heavily influenced the original great scientists. As such, just how and what of science humanity might discover if science were wiped out, is reliant on what sort of religion would form and how the scientific minds would/could relate truth and knowledge. <---I can only hope that my previous statement makes a shred of sense to anyone other than me.
You are describing the foretold apostasy. Truth was lost but was restored. God revealed himself to a prophet in 1820. God is real whether you believe in him or not.
Amen (see what I did there?)
But.... about every 10 years of my life science changes drastically and what we knew to be true no longer is true...
Religion being completely correct/rational and the existence of God are not the same concept.
+Eric Carlson I don't think you really understand what a scientific theory is, or that you quite grasp the scientific process. There's no absolutely conclusive proof of anything at all. There's just evidence and the balance of probability, of which there is an enormous amount for evolution, both fossil evidence and molecular evidence. You're also confusing evolution by natural selection and abiogenesis, and muddling up abiogenesis and the big bang. All in all you're a bit confused.
HAHAH!! +Brendan Weingarten is a huge hypocrite. And why the oversensitivity? Nobody was trying to kill religion. Reading is fundamental.
People keep saying "Sure, the big bang happened, but what came before the big bang?" And then follow it up with "So there must be a god/higher power"
It is this line of thinking that leads to "Why does the sun move across the sky? Must be a dude carrying it."
You're right! We don't know what came before the big bang, but that doesn't mean it's time to start making stuff up! I don't think people understand that the theme of science is always doubting what you already think is true. In science, nothing is ever true. You just have to rely on what is most likely true.

"Where knowledge ends, religion begins." - Benjamin Disraeli
That statement doesn't prove there isn't a god. It challenges religion by saying that man's understanding of god could shift if the slate was wiped clean. However, it doesn't negate the fact that a God can exist.

If logic and science is something people hinge on for explaining things, I'd expect them to be thorough.

Atheist proselytize just as much as zealots.
Truer words have never been spoken so harshly.
+Danny Keele in the top right corner of the post there should be a drop down menu that will allow you to mute this post.
Their is god that is who gives us home makes us look for our future and where we can jsut be at peace. You dont have proof that god duz not exist no one does but their is evidence that god it real.
We don't know anything at all in terms of creation so have to obviously be open to letting people believe what they want. If there is no god, it will be pretty gloomy when we die and the world ends and all that so it is arguably nicer to believe in a God. If people can talk to spirits and ghosts and have seen them and stuff, why should something such as God not be true? It has been proven that if people really believe in something, it will be true. Only because we can't believe in it as it is soooo hard to, it doesn't mean we are right. It is often the things hardest to believe in that we find are true.
Religion was originally "wanabe science". It was a way to explain what people didn't understand. The people in the very first tribes and civilizations didn't have any concepts of astronomy, geology, or any kind of math or science. Naturally, people fear what they don't understand. So they started to make up explanations in an effort to gain peace of mind. Thus religion was born. Then as humanity matured, and aquired more tools with which to observe the world, they started realizing that the things in those stories didn't make as much sense anymore. They started trying to find out for themselves, with better tools. Thus science was born.

Of course, when you question something that people have been believing unquestioningly for many years, you get called a heretic, exiled, or worse. But curiosity is as basic a trait as fear of the unknown. As people discover more about the world, a god is no longer needed to explain the universe. Yes science may not have ALL the answers, but that's the entire point of science - to figure it out instead of making things up. There will always be new puzzles and mysteries for science to decipher, that's the beauty of the infinite universe.
Haha, that logic of course supposes that people talking to spirits and ghosts is actually something and not a con or delusion.
as long as religion is bigger than JESUS!!!

there will never be a god..
..only scientist trying to disprove religion!
well i guess u dont no the simple truth because UR RONG!!!!!
Only because he thinks science is more completely known than human spiritual concerns. Despite his claims, varied cultures, langauges and across time, much of what is believed about the spiritual life and of God, is common to many-- perhaps most. Like science-- we religious focus on the differences in seeking the truth-- but the spiritual truths are true whether he likes it or not and whether he understands it or not. I like science and religion and seek to understand them both without denying either. I win on objectivity alone.
Let us agree, that we disagree! The real point isn't that someone believes that god exists or not. The important point is to be a good person. If god exists this will rewarded. If god does not exist this will be rewareded by society. In any case one half of us will be surprised after death. ;-)
+Ryan Allen The universe has been around for a very long time... we dont have the capacity to understand our universe fully. people will argue that everything was able to happen by accident because of the time our universe has been around, but on the flip side you could also say that because the universe has been around for a long time maybe someone or some entity found a way to tap into scientific laws. Water holds secrets not too many people know about, and water is everywhere in the universe, it sustains all life as we know it. it contains data, lots of it, how do we know something didn't tap into that? but for someone to say there is no god absolutely is full of themselves because the tiny bit of evidence they have is enough. sience contradicts itself as well. "matter can not be created nor destroyed" with this said the big bang theory is either not true or is an overshot theory.
there is one god. str8 and simple. dis is just..................
how did the atom that started the big bang come into the universe? where did the idea of anything come from? GOD
The actual conclusion he reaches is not "There is no God". More accurately, his conclusion is "A human's spiritual experience is subjective, and science is objective." This fact does not, by itself, disprove God or any spiritual experience, it just proves we color it by the lens of our perception.
The universe is alive. God isn't some guy with a beard watching over us from a heavenly cloud.

Do atheists believe that the human race is the pinnacle of life in our universe?
I am seeing a LOT of discussion about this... For real people. If Penn said it, it's obviously wrong. Dudes a joke.
I've never heard this quote before...amazing.
+Brendan Weingarten True, people should keep their beliefs to themselves. But it is natural for people to attempt to disprove the assertions of others who question their beliefs. As an atheist, I can say it's pretty rough, because the only time Christians, Jews, and Muslims seem to get along is when there's an atheist in the room to gang up on. None of us agree on why the world is the way it is, and what lies beyond, but for some reason, when it's the atheist who says Jesus isn't the son of god, instead of a Jewish person or a Muslim, it's extra offensive.
Loopy arguments 101...."It has been proven that if people really believe in something, it will be true".....Only to be trumped by loopy arguments 201..."god is real"...really?
Where was this Sourced, like the comment. It makes the teology of gods sireal :)
Fucking atheists, why are you spending so many time to explain your thoughts to somebody? Aren't you sure in your thoughts?
Are you your own AUTHOR? Did you ASK for the life you are living on a planet that has never belong to you? Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
You are right. The EXACT SAME thing could not be recreated! Why? Because man wrote his own interpretation of why God told him. God did not give Moses 613 Laws to foist on the Israelites. Moses concocted them with the help of Satan.
I can't wait to watch Penn try to explain to God that he does not exist in the next life. Should be good entertainment.
O my gosh you just set yourself up for a world of hate and comment wars...
Oh and by the way, you say "the basis for any religion is to make the world a better place," except, if you look at religious history for just about EVERY SINGLE religion, religion has CONSISTENTLY worked to make the world a WORSE place. Executions if you disagree with the church, persecution for belonging to a different religion, mass murders for living in a country with a conflicting religion to yours.

Catholicism, Judaism, Christianity, Muslim, etc. all at war with each other throughout human history. It's a recurring theme. And yet, all of these religions are so enlightened and following god's words. Wow. I want to be a part of that! It's so good for humanity!

Some people willfully ignore the truth and merely pretend it's what they want it to be because they're afraid to face the actual facts. That's all religion is: Fear. Fear of the unknown. Think about it. You're afraid to die, so you invent a mythical magical land of rainbows and beauty where nothing ever goes wrong, and that's where you go when you die. No. You die, and that's it. Accept it. Face the fact that you only have one life. I guarantee if everyone did that, the world would be an immensely better place because everyone would be living their life to the fullest, respecting others, and being generally good. If you realize you have one chance to either make a good example, or fuck up, you're more likely to try and make a positive impact, rather than pretending everyone else is EVIL because they don't believe as you do.

Just be a good person. Stop blinding and deluding yourself. Religion makes me sick because of what it does to people.
You guys are funny, you don't seemed to have twigged about Spiritual Science, but in a strange (materialistic) way you admit that God IS Intelligence and that everything is formed as a result (reflection) of it. Spirituality 101 lol
hope God has marcy for u..!! for what u have say that there aint no God if there were no God than u wouldnt be alive.simple as that
Something very wise I have read in the bagavath gita: Don't try to explain things to people, that will never understand them. That is true to atheists and religious people.
Hardly a christian attitude, Mr. Cook, though naturally I'm not at all surprised that you don't practice what you preach.
Well, that isn't going to happen, because what is posted above is true.
Of course not! If you want the final truth – you only can go with religion! There is no salvation in science. That’s why only fans of the invisible friend can say: »It’s exactly and only this way.«
"For real people. If Penn said it, it's obviously wrong. Dudes a joke."

+Paul Jewkes That's a sort of inverse argument from authority. Even a fool can be right by accident, and annoying as Jillette can be, he isn't a fool.
And it's people like this who cry out for open-mindedness.
Penn is a good entertainer but is a very close minded individual.
Wow. That's so deep and convincing. I just completely threw away everything I've ever believed in the deepest reaches of my heart and soul. All my private and darkest moments when I knew I wasn't alone are now gone because Penn Jillette makes so much sense. I'm glad there are intelligent atheists/celebrities out there to help the rest of us God-fearing morons (99% of the human population) figure this out. Where would we be without you?
Too bad Mr. Penn can not prove this theory with science. Let see scientists release 300k babies in Mars and watch them NOT call the rocket or anything else that intrigue them god. Then there might be a little truth to that argument.
Agreed. By the way, if God had wanted to, he could have created the Big Bang, mind you.
Wow, never heard it said this way! Amazing.
+Gabriella McGee said: "This is hilarious. All of the Christians are bringing proof, and all of the atheists are just getting mad and not saying anything to prove their stand."

I was just about to ask +Gabriella McGee to stand by that statement and show us one single shred of evidence that proves there is a God.

But then I saw her next comment, "Science isn't reliable. Faith is.", and realized she's probably an idiot.
pretty sad way to live though. nothing to look forward to after this life. what about at least gettin excited about 70 virgins or somethin man?
It was not that long ago, that everyone swore blind that the world was flat and the nay sayers were hounded and portrayed as lunatics. The sun revolved around the earth and there was no water on Mars.

Religion most probably is wrong, as is the majority of our scientific theories we have now. Accepting that we just "are" is the hardest thing for the human race to accept.
There IS a GOD you know! If everything were wiped out GOD would create everything like it was before. And one day you'll answer to GOD for this, either here on earth or on Judgement Day when you die, and HE won't take it lightly...
So... all these people citing science and logic. Can you prove God doesn't exist? Don't worry... I'll wait..

and by God I mean a higher being. Not addressing any specific religion.
You can't prove a negative... sorry.

Renes Descartes: "But I have convinced myself that there is absolutely nothing in the world, no sky, no earth, no minds, no bodies. Does it now follow that I too do not exist? No. If I convinced myself of something [or thought anything at all] then I certainly existed. But there is a deceiver of supreme power and cunning who is deliberately and constantly deceiving me. In that case I too undoubtedly exist, if he is deceiving me; and let him deceive me as much as he can, he will never bring it about that I am nothing so long as I think that I am something. So, after considering everything very thoroughly, I must finally conclude that the proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."

The skeptic's burden is to disprove the Law of Causality applies to the Big Bang -- that is, the Big Bang was caused by nothing, from which the material universe sprang into existence -- from nothing and because of nothing.
So... he's saying that if something is lost, it never existed. (?)
This is so true. Ancient civilizations were wiped out. Along came modern religion (in some cases barbarism and crusader like if you ask me) and things were re-written and made up to feed the masses.
Penn isn't just close minded. He's a freaking idiot who doesn't even realize his own ignorance!!!
+Raghav Sharma You are awesome.
+Tori N. Crossman Maybe stupid was too strong of a word. But even natural selection. I'll make you aware that I've studied this and I still come to a conclusion that its all theories. There hasn't been a scientist yet that has proven them. Gravity is proven. But I can see that there is a being that has made me. I can see natural selection for maybe just one thing. But a whole earth and the millions of organisms that live on it. I just cant see it. I respect your opinion because your honest and not hostile like some people on here and you know how to express yourself without vulgar language. I'm not trying to change your view or anybody else. I'm just expressing my thought as you are yours.

What I believe is time will tell. One will prove itself. Either God will win or science will. But for now. I'm on God's side. :)
I read most of these posts, but the fighting is getting tiresome. Can't we respect each other's beliefs? Usually, we challenge each other to prove themselves and we never do it well enough for the other. I don't think either side can do this well enough, but you've probably found the right thing for you if it gives you peace and you don't feel like attacking the other guy. Scientists and theologians both have the potential to be irrational.
+Alex Arze If what you're implying is that God works through the laws of physics, then that's something I can get behind, and am cool with.
+Graeme Caldwell Actually, abiogenesis would be a component of the layperson's understanding of the Big Bang Theory, as such I did not call that to be a separate and distinct concept. And just to be clear, I am not stating that micro-evolution is fiction, only that we have not been able to create life from completely inorganic matter, as the generally accepted understanding of the B.B.T. suggests. Let me try something a bit simpler: If Penn is right, we're all screwed. If I'm right, then I'm not.
+Jon O'Neill I think u like many others misunderstand the meaning of theory. Its quite common but should look it up.
"The truth is still the truth, no matter what is believed"

Why do atheists want to convince people that there is no God? They're not going to save anyone's soul.
lol @ religious goons. your ignorance does not equal facts. no one will educate you in a way that you find satisfactory, so either educate yourselves or just STFU. claiming that god is as probable as water is the absolute epitome of misguided minion mentality. if you accept god and jesus, then you will believe anything, without facts or logic to support it. so please, STFU, stop destroying the world, and go live in a cave with your contemporaries, you pack of stone age educated fools.
+Martin P. Lalonde Difference is, scientists try to gradually improve their position so as to become less irrational. Theologians are quite happy to remain that way.
This has been quite a fascinating discussion. It is interesting to see the many view points and perspectives. As far as science is concerned let us remember that much of science is subject to boundaries and many scientific principles have not been proven 100%. We call science fact, but it is constantly changing and so in many ways. For instance, maybe Newton's laws would never be rediscovered (if we were to erase science) because they don't hold up under certain constraints. Science is defined by process, if we redefined the process then science would change.

Take for instance the fact that light was considered the fastest thing in the universe. We recognized this as being true and much of quantum physics is based on the idea, but recently it was proved wrong and now we are at a crossroads to redefining a major field of physics. Science is not absolute nor infallible.

Because science is not absolute we take it on faith that what we have found to Faith is the essence of religion. So in some ways, they can be considered to be one in the same. There have been scientifically recorded supernatural events (observations), mostly in medicine and yet science is at a loss to explain them. That does not mean they did not occur. So...keeping an open mind and not closing the door on a creator seems logical, if only because we have not yet discovered everything there is to know, and thus cannot rule out the possibility of something higher than ourselves.
May the ONE and HOLY GOD have mercy on you all who believe we just came from nothing... But those of you who believe in Jesus, God Bless you for staying strong in your faith!
guess u won't be joining us in Heaven, I'll still pray for u thou
+Kendall Rice What about natural selection makes you think it can work for one species, but not for all? What part about that theory makes you think it doesn't scale?
+Jon-Paul LeClair God is everything. Therefore he is also nothing. Nothing is a part of everything. Therefore the big bang could be created by nothing, that is god. :-)
+Jonathan Shields hahahahahahahahhahahahaha OMFG that is the most pathetic attempt at reasoning i have ever laid eyes on. what is your IQ? like 4? 5? never have kids, and please don't vote.
hey Penn jillette thats bull ---- have you ever read the Lutheran BIBLE wait of course you haven't
Is never thought of it that way. Cool.
There is a God and one true God. If you read and studied the Holy Bible you would understand the nature of science and how God made it to be. You would then never question God ever again.....I promise you that..
Wow a long haired hippie figured out the big question. Congratulations 
I had never thought of it that way. Cool.
Hi Sean, I think I will just go on believing in God just the same... thanks for your insight
I think penn gets to much attention.
Jesus Christ is real and the God of this universe.
I am amazed how easy the Big Bang theory is accepted as FACT.

Where id the dust come from? God put it there for you.
always with the ex nihil arguments, ugh. the universe has always existed in one form or another. infinitely dense singularity then outwardly expanding until it collapses back to the singularity. rinse and repeat. If you could speed this process up to fit into human time, it would sound like late 90s house music, in other words, heavenly.
A Cure for Cancer and Proof of God.
The Cure is #60 However
I suggest that the Record be read first as it puts everything in perspective and you will then understand why I have it.
Concluding by saying that without the cure you would be asking me for proof so it goes without saying (though I will) Science is only the Result of what God wants to give us, as to date their Cures have mainly been serendipitous .
I think who ever put this but is a jerk because it doesn't matter what others think of the religion someone believes in and if they believe in that religion let them believe in it it has nothing to do with them its their life and they got the freedom to believe what they want!!!
+Zoe Neugebohr has anybody proven there is a god. My mate believes there are purple haired dragons flying around London atm. Nobody can see them but him. Doesn't mean they aren't there does it? Have u ever thought ppl who preach god are equally offensive to non believers as vice versa. This was a post about non believers which you happened to post on..
we'll hopefully find out on dec 21st
I personally am agnostic, so whenever my friends bring up religion I run away screaming
The problem with a 'science only' approach to explaining the universe is, well, it just isn't sufficient. It works fairly well right now, but the instant someone tries to extrapolate it into the infinite future or infinite past problems arise. Science CANT explain where everything came from or where it all is going, it can only explain how it works. Religions try to explain where it all came from and where it is all going, not how it all works.
+Stephen Russell The Big Bang theory isn't accepted as fact, that's why it's a theory. As for where the dust came from, we don't have a theory on that yet. Why do you say God put it there? Did the Bible talk about it? If so, why is there so much opposition to the Big Bang theory?
The rate at which Atheism is gaining converts in the last 30 years is astonishing. I pray for you all. God bless.
That's OK, let him think he is in the center of the universe. One day he will have a new tune.
+Howard Kuntz your questions have absolutely zero relevance or importance, and your statements are laughable attempts to assert the bible as some kind of proof. not only does the bible not answer one single question in a meaningful way, it doesn't even prompt you to consider what the actual questions should be. if you believe that the world was created in 6 day, that immaculate conception can or has ever occurred, or that the story of noah's ark is true, then you lack the kind of critical thought needed for intelligent debate. you have been an idiot for your entire life, please die soon.
why would you quote a clown? shows how smart you are.
this guy is a deuche.... science is based on theories it will never bee able to determine how the world started
+Ron Picard That is something I have really an understanding problem with. I just don't get it from the bible. From my understanding Jesus can't be a god. He can only be a part of god, a human that is very near to god, etc... I find parts in the bible where they say he is just a human. And other parts, where I am not sure, if they mean that he is god. When I try to interpret it I come to the conclusion that they mean that he is a way to come to god and he is full of god. Explainations would help me.
My thoughts exactly +Nathan Bubna Penn's argument doesn't actually hold up at all to anyone who actually believes in God. God is a supreme being, therefore if you wipe out all religion God provides the means necessary to restore it, usually through a prophet historically.

Religion attempts to teach people to believe, have faith, and try to be better.

Athiesm on the other hand, is defined as The theory or belief that God does not exist. Essentially religions believe in something and atheism does not.

+Tom Karlo I believe all religions that teach people to love each other and God are good, however I also believe that God has prophets on the earth today, that he is the same yesterday today and forever. That when his church goes through apostasy, he restores it because he loves his children. I believe that he gives the authority to act in his name to those in his church who obey his commandments. I believe that he allows each of us to ask him what is right, or wrong and receive an answer, that includes which church is true. I also believe that every one of us has a lot of room to grow and become better spiritually.

If you're open minded enough you can always read more about some of the specifics.
We know where your going! And it isn't heaven. But to Hell. Only those who know God and have grow close can see the truth. the rest of you are blind ignorant idiots.
Well, these comments certainly took a turn for the irrational.
Spoken like a true holier than thou white male.
so true,,, why would you try to tell someone there is not a god ... if there is then those who dont beleve are done for.. and if there is not a god they those people who belevie just wasted there time
+Nick Janaway Why not? You think if there was a God he would create a perfect, disease free, death free, sorrow free paradise? You are describing Heaven. We don't deserve Heaven for nothing. Life is not the socialist welfare state this country has become. You want Heaven then you have to work for it. You have to earn it.
well u know what screw you for saying that God is isn't real because God is just as real as MY BUTT
+Simon Purdy its a myth. Its only the end of a calender , nothing more. Just because they didn't plan any further not because they predicted the end of the world. The date has no more relevance than 12th julember 409987
Qing Lu
there is such thing as a religon
Nitsche say god is dead.
God say nitsche is dead.
I say dead don't speak ;-)
Penn Jillette is a fag, Just because he believes there is no God don't mean that there is not a God out there. How did he get placed on earth not by some BIG Bang but by God his and our creator. God created this earth so that we could glorify him in all we do. Heaven and Earth Shall pass away but Gods word shall stand forever.

Think about it!!!
Penn needs to fill out an ID10T form.
evolution by bacteria created by loose molucules. GO TO SCHOOL.
God said "let there be light"
Chuck Noris said "say please"

And good night. My god and the science be with you.
+Brian Prince Does it give you a hard-on to imagine the people who disagree with you burning for eternity? Does it turn you on?
+Brian Prince You should pay attention to the Pope a little closer. Hell is not a place, it is a life without God. I'm an atheist, I'm alive, and according to the Catholic Church, I am currently in hell.
The fact that God has not been wiped out is a pretty good argument for the existence of God - IMHO.
+Tyler Yeager isn't Jesus supposed to save all non-believers anyways dumbass
I love Penn for a lot of reasons, But..... After I read his statement I was like ok, profound Man, and then I read it again, and again, and I thought, Shit this makes no sense. Sounded good, as a statement from a rational man who is being deep, i got it dude, but really? If all concept of God ( not religion) were wiped out I bet my house that man would still dream up/discover/wonder God into being, and yes from different experiences given cultural influences,
+John Dowell Maybe the earth was orbiting another sun - somewhere else in the universe. You know, there must be at least one other sun out there in the universe...right?
+Ted Ewen I think you misunderstood the post. The post is saying that if we wiped religion and started over you would likely not have Jesus or Mohamed, but something else. But the concept of 1 + 1 = 2 would still be discovered. The concept of ART would still exist too, it would just look different. The point is that things like the bible say things happened a very very specific way. And that if we wiped them you might see changes like Adam was made from the woman's rib, and that it took 12 days to make the earth and so forth. The things in the new religions would directly contradict the past religions, but science would not suffer the same problems. We would still find that light travels the same speed, and that we are made of atoms. That is not to say we would call light light, and atoms atoms but their concepts in new and old forms would not contradict themselves.
There is only 1 god he is Allah (ull-aa) and Muhammed (moo-hem-ed) is his messenger.
+Kevin Burger I'd be quite surprised if +Brian Prince is a Catholic. He's clearly an evangelical protestant, and therefore thinks that the pope will be joining us non-believers in the firey pits.
The fact that unicorns have not been wiped out is pretty good evidence for unicorns - IMHO
Your lost like a ball in high weeds.
+Aidan Gotta if it was that simple, I'd have no problem with it. The problem is, people in Africa are currently killing each other in the name of God, and homosexuals in the United States aren't allowed equal rights under the law because Christians think homosexuality is a sin. Beliefs are a good thing, until they're used to disadvantage others.
god doesn't have to be 'someone'. He could just be a hope or driving force for us. im bored. i gotta do homework. so come to a conclusion...of some sort
Natural disaster leads us to think that there is a God. Almost everything in the bible traces back to some physical proof that there is a God. On a non-scientific note, If you don't believe in a God, what do you believe in? I can't believe that we came from ape's and that when we die we will just die. Never touch, laugh, feel. Just feel nothingness. Nothingness is a feeling. How can we feel nothingness if we can feel nothing? I don't know about you but I can't believe in nothingness.
Nav H.
Wow this mad a lot of brainwashed people mad. :D
Please people. Stop debating whether there is a god and look at the MOON'S effect on this planet, life growth and stability. If you really want to look to a single god then look to the moon's impact on earth. Scientists will tell you the moon wasn't always a part of earth's atmosphere and since it has been here life has existed. The moon is my god.
You can't bash religion because how did the Big Bang materials come from? Also, we don't what religion is correct so lets keeps options open (I'm agnostic)
Jesus is the Son of God that was chosen as a sacrifice by God, basically. The fight between God and Satan... over us. We choose. Those two wait. But in the interim... Satan was stupid enough to agree to allowing God to give us a second chance... by accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior for the forgiveness of all OUR sins that would be hailed as a win by Satan... shoving us over to his side. At the end of the day... if we're all smart enough to accept Jesus Christ as being the Son of God and our Savior... God wins. Satan loses. Ta Da! On a much sadder note... you have preachers out there (honestly, false prophets) trying to convince everybody that it's all really much more complicated than that. But if you decide your truly ready for truth and you seek it by putting faith and belief in God and asking Him to take you where HE wants you to go in the Bible to learn what He feels you are ready to understand... it will always be the only place where you can always... without fail... be safe enough for finding truth.... especially during these times.
And all this fire and brimstone shit is dumb I'm not even christian and I know whats in the new testament fucktarding shitfaces

+Kevin Burger Let me clear myself up. I can see this happening but only to a minimum. Some aspects of it in which Darwin created to support evolution which still I believe (again not trying to persuade anybody, but its my opinion) aren't true. I can see in which a person or thing can change to survive. Black people are from Africa or other hotter climate because it guards there skin. Whites come from colder climate because there skin allows more sun in. But to take that and say we evolved from an ape because we of natural selection. hmmm... If so, like I stated earlier, this could be proven by moving an ape from on place to another and watch them adapt. I can see to the point that an animal or human over time can adapt to its climate. But not to that extreme of morphing from one creature to another. That I don't believe. (Just my opinion peopl)<----sad I have to state that fifteen times LOL
"Let the record reflect the slaying of Penn Jillette." -Yourpenguy GOD
This coming from a man who won't come out from the closet.
The closest I'm ever getting to heaven is a BMW in the driveway, money in the bank, and my hot wife bobbing in my lap. Those who deny themselves in the only existence that we have solid proof of are fools.
Religion and Politics - 2 men made institutions that are responsible for most of the suffering and deaths on earth. The world would be better off without either of them.
Something else Penn has mentioned that applies to many people here: If I told you I went out and walked on water, would you believe me? If I told you I turned water into wine, would you believe me? If I told you I did something that defies the laws of physics and is therefore impossible, would you believe that I did it?

No, you wouldn't. Because you're a rational person who knows that impossible things, by definition, NEVER happen.
Then why do you find it acceptable to believe that these things happened before?

You have to realize, if you have a kid, and you raise that kid watching Lord of the Rings, and you tell that kid that everything in Lord of the Rings actually happened a long time ago, that kid would believe you. If you make a building for people who think Lord of the Rings really happened to gather and re-enforce each other, they will all continue to think it really happened. And you can't tell them they are wrong. How do we know it never happened?

If you believe in the Bible, and you read this thinking, "no that's ridiculous. That's nothing like religion." What if the Tolkien books were ancient books recovered by archeologists and we don't know the author? What if modern humans found these books and read them. All it takes is for one person to think that they are based on fact. And for that person to convince someone else. And so on. And now you have a religion based on fiction. And no one can say they're wrong because we wouldn't know for sure. But they are wrong. Because it's Lord of the Rings. That shit never happened.

When you tell them, "No....hobbits, magic, invisibility...none of that is real" they will say, "yeah, not for you! You're not a wizard." or "hobbits are extinct, duh".

Here is what's happening, and it's one of mankind's biggest faults: your brain is capable of believing multiple conflicting truths without hesitation. George Orwell called it Doublethink. You believe both that the laws of physics define our world, and that a man long ago defied those physics somehow. Doublethink is a gift and a curse. If humans couldn't accept things at face-value, we would never believe anything. We wouldn't be able to accept anything as truth without first evaluating it against everything we already know. And if it can't be deduced, we would probably have a mental breakdown, or reject it no matter how true. But you have to realize that if you give into Doublethink too much, you're just gullible.
+Nate Cook why? Thats absolute nonsense. Anybody that creates anybody would want it perfect especially a "loving" and "all powerful" god. Why should you work for anything in a created world. Why bother making it at all if its second best. Also to which god do you refer?
People forget that science is a philosophical strain and this is true of theology as well. Both are manifestations of a certain kind of human experience. The science behind human senses and perception dictate how both strains will be "reported" to others. Simply understand the mathematics behind sensory perception and you can appreciate just how distorted our reporting of physical attributes can be. Then you can understand how arbitrary most of our human experience is. This arbitrariness causes so much suffering as it manifests through both overly strict adherence to a theology and overly strict adherence to science. If there is one thing both science and religion has tried to teach it is moderation. We can see how well that has worked.
You never had a personal relationship pitiful
that is not true. why would God create every thing the same again? and if it werent the same, as this guy, says then how would you figure out the same things if it were all different?
When and where did life in this universe begin? At one moment in time there was no life whatsoever. The next moment there was magically life? You science bufoons are the ones sounding stupid. A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away there was a magic ball of light. One day the magic ball exploded. It was the size of a marble but grew into the entire universe - by magic. Life did not exist but the magic ball became alive and evolved - again via magic. And that is how we all got here - we are all part of the big magic ball in the sky. Morons. Show me a single example in this world where no life begot life.
Pascal's wager says its better to believe in god and be wrong, then not believe and be wrong
can any of the religionists link us athiest's to some evidence of your different god's??
2bulr S
Some people just have the need (fear) to know. They have a need for order. It feels good - "manageable". This applies to people on both sides of this issue. Making big decisions and routines (like wearing the same 3 piece suit for 30 yrs.) feel comforting. Just because you made a choice to not believe, doesn't change the reality- which is mostly UNKNOWN. Be honest with yourself...
The assumption made by Jillette is that there is no God but he doesn't know that for sure because its simply a theory. If everything is wiped out and rebooted perhaps science will actually lead itself to an alternative conclusion.
+Kendall Rice Thanks for clarifying. :) I understand where you're coming from, even though I disagree. :)
But if you choose the wrong god out of the thousands we have its eternal damnation for you!
Why is all this athiest stuff going up on google?!?!
Those people that come from monkeys are morons.
Here is some infor for you the word of God Gen 1:1-5 John 1:1-4 2Pet 3:10 Rev 21:7 every thing you need is in the word of God
I think everyone should read his book "god,no"
Science is the new way to understand God.
alternate mind
leads to alternate works and end up unconclude..
i believe that the "God" and "devil" were created to try to control people and some of their stupid actions. i believe if there was a Jesus Christ he was not killed for our "sins" but for his teaching a way the roman empire did not like,i believe god and the devil are equal to positive and negative,and all of us have each within us,it is our choice which side to live in. ashes to ashes dust to dust--is a statement people are not paying attention to,no there is no reuniting--even the bible says you will not recognize one another,the first testement contrdicts the second and women were treated like shit.
+Shea Fenton I don't believe in god. I'm perfectly happy. I laugh, cry, love, touch and so so much more. I think your confusing god for emotions.
no need to be name callin'
+Ricky Hale So in your experience there is a high propensity for anarchy among atheists?
the second part of the quote tells you what Penn believes is a result of there being no God, but isn't a supporting argument for there being no God. if there were a biblical God, religion could be recreated the same way by God re-revealing himself.
+Ricky Hale sorry m8 but that's absolute bullshit. You need to look at your figures and stop listening to your preacher.
Pascal's wager only makes sense if there is no other cost to belief in a religion in life. It only considers the implications of the afterlife.
A vision of god and heaven appears in all cultures because us (as humans) are genuinely scared of what comes next after we die. We don't want it to be the end of it all. Religion is just us reassuring ourselves that we can live in eternal paradise after death. We love life, and that is normal and needed.
I love Penn and Teller, but theologians they are not. I have complete faith in God. And it's not because I'm stupid or whatever atheists want to accuse me of being.
Science it's not an opinion.

(Edit. That guy is Drell, the Head of Wizard Council; awesome)
according to the big bang, the whole universe fit inside of a period, a tiny period at the end of this sentence. So you saying trillions of stars and galaxies fit into something the size of a period?
I feel sorry for you. You have not lived long enough to be so negative. Even Albert Einstein -believed in God

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Einstein was a German-born theoretical physicist who developed the theory of general relativity, effecting a revolution in physics. For this achievement ...
+Kasser Riaz For science to lead itself to an alternative conclusion, either a) they would have to be on a truncated time table, or b) the laws of physics were also wiped out. Something must be independently repeatable and observable to be accepted as science, otherwise it is a theory. However, I agree that Jillette cannot no for sure that there is no god, because a universal negative cannot be proven.
p.s,it is a medical and a scientific impossiblity that jesues was male--immaculate conception? no her hymen just didnt break,some are very flexable and at times a dr has to break it. women have ONLY female chromezones,male has female and male-so for Jesus to be male she had sex.
+Nate Cook All life is made up of non-life. How's that?
I literally thought that most of your post was quoting the bible, btw.
+Kevin Burger No problem. Thats whats makes everybody in the world different is we all have different opinions. I'm just glad were not robots.

@everybody. On a different note. Did anybody see that Bulls game. D.Rose is a beast. ;)
one thing that would hold true without religion or science: treat others the way you want to be treated!
Which is worse, being a Christian then dying and finding there is no Christianity or dying an atheist suddenly looking into the eyes of God? Also, which one is more harmful while alive?
+Stephen Gabriele So goes the theory. I can understand if you find it hard to believe. The forces involved by having that much energy so close together is the kind of thing that could make one believe in the Almighty. :)
AGAIN... As I said before, look at the MOON'S impact on earth. Mars has no moon and spins out of control. Earth used to do the same before the moon passed into our atmosphere, thus, stabilizing the planet and allowing for bacteria and life to grow and stabilize. This whole GOD/JESUS discussion is insane. The same god, divine creation and immaculate conception has been around LONG BEFORE any mention of jesus. Please people... think for yourself instead of following blindly and accepting without questioning.
What if the "real world" is nothing but a bad dream of a consciousness that has always existed? The dream could have started with a thought that it was separate. The "big bang" would then have been an explosion of thought - not of matter.
you better know what are you talking about beacouse ther is a god and his name is الله you better know it.
GOT The Holy Grail to smack Penn Jillette, hey Penn... you wanna bet?
Thats a total lie cuz there is a God, and people need him
So what is the first cause of our reality?
Dude, show me concrete evidence of God and intelligent design. Man's word is flawed, always has been, always will be. So, we're supposed to take things on a word called FAITH!? Science has a definitive rules, and there is no doubting what the evidence has provided. The only reason man needs God is to make better sense of that which he cannot comprehend. Sounds like Magic too!
+Steven Reed "All life is made up of non-life" Really? Was your mother a rock? My mother was a human. My mothers mother was a human and so on back through the ages forever and ever. Give me one example of an inanimate object giving birth to a living organism. Just one.

Either there is a God or there is not. I have a choice to make on how I live my life. If I decide there is no God and live my life with no moral code and die to find out there is a God then I’m going to be in a world of hurt that lasts for eternity. If I’m correct and there is no God, then when I die I cease to exist and nothing I did in this life matters one way or the other. Now, if I decide there is a God and live my life with a moral code and die to find there is a God I will live in eternal splendor forever and ever. If I’m wrong and there is no God, then when I die I cease to exist and nothing I did in this life matters one way or the other.

So, worst case of not believing in God: Eternal damnation.
Best case of not believing in God: Complete and total annihilation.
Worst case of believing in God: Complete and total annihilation.
Best case of believing in God: Eternal happiness and splendor.
If there were no gods, to whom do the chariots belong? R
To think one can try to "rationalize" that which gave us the ability to rationalize... what a joke.
Also, just a note: a Christian and a Muslim (for example) could pray together and they'd be praying to the same God. The existence of different religions-or even sects of the same one-does not constitute the lack of an objective truth, only different means of obtaining that truth. Enlightenment is something we all seek, by human nature.
There is no real reason science and theism cannot coexist, and as +Tori N. Crossman said about evolutionary theory, just because one doesn't understand something (namely, God, creation) doesn't mean it "is stupid" or is "balderdash" as some put it. It is foolish to think that you possess intelligence beyond that of the greatest philosophers and scientists to have ever lived and who concluded the existence of God. (e.g. Plato, Aristotle, Einstein, Newton, Leibnitz, Volta). Humble yourselves.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” (Einstein: His Life and Times by Philipp Frank. 1953. p.286)
Never argue about other people's belief in their religion. Likewise, don't bother believing in your own scientific theories. Both are inappropriate.
“The atheist can't find God for the same reason that a thief can't find a policeman.” ~ Author Unknown
“The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” ~ Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1

Just because someone says, “God does not exist,” that statement in no way proves that He indeed does not exist. Likewise, just because someone says, “God exists,” that statement also in no way proves that He indeed does exist.

Both statements (“God does not exist” and “God exists”) are what each person who speaks them believes. Now, Christ Jesus says:“…I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him” (John 14:6-7, ESV).

In other words, Christ Jesus is saying that the ONLY way that anyone can come to believe in God and see Him is through believing in Christ Jesus. However, for the atheist (someone who denies the existence of God), it is not that he or she cannot believe in Christ Jesus, but rather that he or she “will not to believe” that Christ Jesus is the only way to come to believe in and know about God! For this last reason, it is never really about how much evidence believers in God can supply that proves to an atheist that God exists, because no amount of evidence will be sufficient!
If thats true +Nadine Drayton-Keen that you believe a dude was resurrected, and did many miracles, how come Religious people hate D&D. My cleric was able to resurrect other people and create food/water =D
Well if there was no history books we would not have known what had happened either. Its very simple just have faith!

History is a good rejoinder, Ms. Rodrigues! Talk to a history professor and if you don't feel like you're talking to a theology professor sooner or later, you aren't listening. History had witnesses. So did the resurrection of Jesus, and his religion is the only one based on facts.
Right, fellas, because history and science are equivalent.  I hear CERN has decided to start using The Historific Method for measuring properties of matter.
i dont...
The existence of miracles proves the existence of God.
Design is evident in the universe. Therefore, there must be a designer – God.
Everything that begins must have a cause. The universe began. Therefore, it must have a first cause – God.
And every single word of QURAAN is from GOD (ALLAH)its like ALLAH is telling which is written in it...PEACE ALL OF YOU :)
sean you shouldn't of posted that because every one has thir own belefs like i beleve in the creation evoluson dosen't make sense to me
Belief has nothing to do with research, belief is what we believe and research is what we gain from others.
Always look for the best for you. your religion Belief is for you and mine is for me. But for me it is necessary to tell others about the message from GOD (ALLAH) that nobody can deny the invitation from GOD (ALLAH) on the judgment.
Please see QURAAN as it is the Word of GOD and continuation of Prophets from ALLAH, We believe Ibrahim, Musa (Moses) and Eisa (Jesus) were prophets of GOD (ALLAH).
If you Believe in the science then there is a lot of stuff in QURAAN for you and a wise guy like you will take only few hours to change your faith because truth speaks for itself, but if you decided not to accept any other belief (which is good for a healthy mind) then there's a lock on the heart for such people and There is a verse in the QURAAN from such people
"Say you, O infidels!

I worship not that you worship.

And nor you worship what I worship.

And I shall not worship what you worshiped.

And nor you shall warships what I warship.

For you, your religion. and for me my religion."
I am not surprised at all, because the guy in question (Penn) above is a magician. What do you expect from him.
Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. partial
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