Mildly inspired from some of the comments on my last post, here's another one which sheds a little light on the possible snarkiness things like solar panels (which produce a lot of electricity) and wind turbines (which also produce a lot of electricity) create in some people.
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- It is not correct to say that a subsidy given to wind turbines is greater than subsidies given to other forms of electrical power generation.
Coal is heavily subsidized in Europe because the coal is imported from Africa and Russia, where the wages and working conditions of the workers are different to those found in Europe. Additionally, the externalities of mercury, sulphur emissions, CO2 and NOx emissions are not paid for by the coal-fired power plant producers. The manufacturers of coal-plants in Europe and China receive preferential government treatment in the form of government secured export loans and, in times of need, government purchase of stocks and shares in the coal-fired power plant manufacturing company.
All manufacturers receive "back-door" assistance from governments and, in some cases, blatant disregard for EU competition regulations.
So, to truly determine how much money was 'given' to put one wind turbine in the North Sea or Atlantic Ocean you need to look at the annual accounts of the manufacturer and see how much they paid for the steelwork, foundations, installation, testing, and permitting. You then need to see what the manufacturer's gross margin is and what their net margin is. How much tax did they owe for that year and how much tax did they actually pay for that year? How much money did the government actually give to help make that wind turbine? You then need to look at the company that bought the wind turbine and operates it. How many dollars/euros/pounds did they buy it for and how long will it be before a blade drops off, before the gearbox catches fire and how much do they have to spend every year to keep the blades turning. Will the turbine be demolished in the year 2022, 2027, 2032, 2037 or when 50 MW wind turbines replace the outdated 6 MW turbines? What is the tariff agreement that the wind turbine operator has with the National Grid? Do you think that that tariff will remain stable or will it reduce every year as hundreds more wind turbines are connected to the grid?
Finally, nobody can say that wind turbines are 60% subsidized. That's just being like a parrot, repeating what someone said in the pub last night. If wind turbine manufacturing was such a lucrative business then why have most of the original makers gone bust?Apr 9, 2012
- This.Apr 9, 2012
- Funny joke? I'm afraid that it's just an enlightening fact ☹Apr 9, 2012
- Yes they own the mines, the manufacturing plants, the land that you would need to build the things on. Big business still makes big bucks from Solar, they just aren't interested as it's nowhere near effecient enough with current tech.Apr 11, 2012
- William Mrozinski@g'+ has the good sense
to block Philip Torrance@g'+
but I got the message he directed at me anyway;
from scoping myself at plus.topsy.com .
. I had said this:
"( instead of subsidising green energy
we could sin-tax fossil fuels
to make them pay for all the cancer they cause;
and then we could use ethanol or other biofuels
for a less toxic backup generation .
. therefore, clean and price-competitive .
and he had responded (Apr 7):
... you have the right to
modify people's behavior with tax policy?
The basic economic reality is that
if we used alternative fuel for everything
then ... people would be out of work, etc, etc.
People don't have the economic training to understand
what they suggest would colapse[sic] the economy.
my response is predictably blockable:
. where did you get the idea that "(economic training)
would save our jobs and the economy??!
. the usa is looking more and more like mexico
because we breed like mexico, and not china .
. you will see that joblessness is not the banks, or obama,
joblessness is from
automation, globalized capitalism,
and grossly free breeding .
. as for sin taxes,
I think your best argument would have been to
refute the premise that oil and coal
are a significant source of cancer;
after all, our sugary estrogen-soaked environs
must be by far the greatest source of big C .
. you could say that as a percentage of medical costs,
the coal and oil industry really doesn't owe us much .
. if you had given us this argument,
I doubt you would have blocked me;
because, you'd have been proud of your position .May 28, 2012
- "Solar power isn't feasible" - US
"Actually it is. We own the rare earths (monopoly) used to manufacture solar panels. And we don't need the uranium by 2020, we'll have MSRs." - ChinaDec 25, 2012