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In his first U.S. television interview since the latest news broke of the government's surveillance program, #Google's chief legal officer David Drummond told #PBS #NewsHour senior correspondent Jeffrey Brown on Tuesday that the company has given the U.S. #government information on only a "tiny fraction" of its hundreds of millions of users.

( #FISA   #NSA   #prism   #surveillance  )
Mitch Stokely's profile photoTodd Slater's profile photoAlex Ander's profile photonunya bznss's profile photo
They obviously did give the government access into their database to spy on everybody. I am not listening to that controlled media type bull shit.
+john splater No we are not. These corporations wait till they are caught red-handed then decide to talk about transparency.
This guy was on England's Channel 4 news yattering this same corporo-babble. It's like listening to one of the adults in a Charlie Brown cartoon.
Assuming only a small fraction, like 1%, of Google's roughly 1 billion users, had their records turned over to the NSA means over 10 million people may have had their records snooped. 10% is still a relatively small fraction, and that would represent nearly 1/3 of the US population. 
The thing is, if Google were lying they must be pretty confident that the truth would not be explicitly laid out, because the resulting PR backlash would sting even harder than it is now. 
+William Tatum  - throw in Facebook's users, Twitter's users, Apple's users, Skype's users .... <>
i am so tired of all of this crap.

not only do i believe that Google does all that they can to protect users, and to that end forces any requests for data to be extremely above-board, and to the letter-of-the-law, i also believe that short of dropping out of participating in The 'Net Community, one is largely helpless to do anything about what The Man does and how they do what they do.

what i find most amusing is the numbers of people who say they do or do not feel that "eavesdropping" is an acceptable infringement on our privacy: a huge amount of those crying foul today were in full support of the illegal, and insane policies of georgie-boy, and his uncle Darth cheney.

they are fine with any amount of lunacy, so long as the guy in The Oval is not Black, and is a rethuglican.
+Rachelle Greene - I disagree with the first half of your first paragraph (taking what they're saying at face value) but agree with the latter half. I completely agree with your last two paragraphs. That people have the gall to make this an "Obama thing" is utterly appalling to me. That's just plain willful ignorance. 
Wait a second +Rachelle Greene I think you're confusing race with party affiliation. Democrats (mostly) care about violations of civil liberties when a Republican is the one doing the violating, but not so much when their guy is doing it. Republicans (mostly) care about violations of civil liberties when a Democrat is the one doing the violating, but not so much when their guy is doing it.
+Rachelle Greene Who brought up Obama? I surely didn't, I bitched and protested about this under Bush just like I am bitching and protesting about it now. 

How about you stop with the Hero worship. So what if some racists only hate this program because its being implemented by Obama. 

The fact of the matters remains that this program(under Bush and Obama), and its siblings, represent a gross violation of the fourth and fifth amendments, will chill speech, potentially prevent future whistleblowers, and most importantly #PRISM is a major security risk.

No database is 100% secure, having a database with data spanning that many people makes for a very tempting target for cybercriminals and adversarial states. 

I don't believe that Google is lying to us, but their version of reality is not mutually exclusive to a world where the NSA has direct access. It is comlpetely possible that management was never made fully aware, think plausible deniability and a simple calculus that Sergey might whistleblow themselves. 

Google, FB, are huge companies with hundreds to thousands of employees, many of whom could have been sent NSLs requiring them to instal malware or even hardware and not inform anyone of it. 

There is also the real possibility that ISPs have been sent NSLs demanding the raw data going over their lines, meaning they could have de facto direct access by virtue of being able to listen in because they have access to the "pipes". 

Either of those could be true and the Google statements could be true. Until we bring transparency to these programs we can never know just how much has been recorded for future use. 
+Todd Slater i believe you are in denial.

i am confusing nothing.

+William Tatum how about you stop with all of the assumptions, asshat.

you are making assumptions that are as far from correct as they can be, without being bat-shit, chew your own face off crazy.

i am not a Democrat, and i do not worship Barack Obama.

get a clue, and stop casting unsupportable aspersions
Please stop with the party politics.. two sides, same coin.. and we need change.
+William Tatum  - some very good points and information. I don't think she's saying everybody is bringing up Obama but if you look  around at a lot of the posts, his name is the face of the affair. You are, as far as I've been tracking this, in a minority of seeing the longer picture. It seems a lot of people, because this story broke under Obama's watch, equate it with his actions. This displays a complete ignorance of how the machinations of government agencies operate. 

North Americans (by which I mean Americans and Canadians) are pathetically passive. We should be taking the lead of the brave demonstrators in Istanbul and taking to the streets by the millions. 
+Rachelle Greene so basically you're saying that any criticism of the Obama administration is motivated by racism?
LOL +Rachelle Greene that's fine, enjoy! You said that people are OK with any amount of lunacy so long as "the guy in The Oval is not Black, and is a rethuglican." I suggested this has nothing to do with race and everything to do with partisan politics. If you look at the polls that have been released recently by Pew and the NYT and possibly others, these clearly demonstrate that when dubya was in office, Republicans were OK with the surveillance apparatus but Democrats were outraged. Change the party occupying the White House, and now all of a sudden the Democrats and Republicans have reversed course, so that Democrats are overwhelmingly OK with the surveillance apparatus and Republicans are not. Both parties love authoritarianism when they are the ones wielding power and hate it when they are not. That some people may be racist doesn't deny the basic premise that I'm just echoing from these various polls. 

And stop presenting false choices...I'm BOTH a troll AND a moron!
+Brad Esau thanks for that, and i meant exactly what i said, with no hidden agenda, or hero worship being a factor.

i live in texas, where the overwhelming majority of people are not rethuglicans, but the system here is rigged in such a way that we are controlled by rethuglican criminal assholes, and our electoral votes are a zero-sum game: when the electoral votes are all for the same person, and the state is classified as rethuglican property, my vote (and the votes of the majority of people here) is meaningless.

i am also surrounded by people who are terrified to speak openly of any rethuglican politician in anything other than high praise, because people here get fired for their political opinions; so when i say that many people who now criticise the "invasive policies of Barack Obama," vociferously, and blindly supported The Patriot Act, and the shredding of The Constitution are morons, i mean exactly what i say.

...and again, i am not a Democrat, i only vote that way out of self-defense. the closest to a party description my beliefs fall is socialist, and i wanted more than anything for #RalphNader  to finally be repaid for his lifetime of service to the people of the USA, but as a third party, poor candidate, he stood no chance at all--i still feel bad about not being able to vote for him, but i sent him money twice after the election ended, to help try to repay the debt...
+Rachelle Greene  - I feel your pain. You should become a refugee in Canada. ;) You'd find the politics here much closer to your liking. Even our extreme right wing is still far left of the GOP gangs. 
+Rachelle Greene So what assumptions did I make, aside from you voting for Obama? I never called you any names, nor did I say you were a Democrat.

According to the FISA courts own reporting to congress over 15,000 NSL's were issued last year. It is completely reasonable to suppose that some of those letters were sent to important sys admins.

What aspertions am I casting that aren't warranted by the leaks from the NSA?
+Brad Esau i was in fact looking into moving to Vancouver, and i had considered graduate school in Ottawa (i think i recall that correctly), at York.

alas, i am terribly poor, and Canada does not want me, even though i have studied French for most of my life, Arabic, and now Swedish (when i can make myself focus). i hold a 69-hour master of psychology, and have studied in france twice...i am all kinds of well-educated, but i have no money, so the Canadian gov't perceives me as a liability.

i forget how much financial resources i need to have liquid to emigrate, but it is definitely more than i have.
+William Tatum while this was published May 4, 2012, i cannot imagine your numbers can be any more valid than the suggested projections for the reports published this year. i know for certain the actual numbers are nowhere near what you seem to believe, but i am growing weary of this crap, and refuse to look any longer. i do know that Stephen Colbert addressed it last night, so perhaps i will look for that link...

as your third phrase in the above post is: "How about you stop with the Hero worship. So what if some racists only hate this program because its being implemented by Obama," i am having trouble understanding what you do not understand.

you are no one i wish to interact with any longer, so any more ranting will bother only the people generous or crazy enough not to block you.

i wish you luck in all that you endeavour to undertake.
+Rachelle Greene - boy, you are a sore thumb in Texas. ;) 

I'm from Vancouver. It's the most expensive city in which to live in N. America. Take Ottawa. ;)

Don't get me started on Canadian immigration policy. It's nuts. We feel free to let a "brain drain" flow south but we make it impossible for Americans to move north. I'm not opposed to the rich fabric of cultures we have from all over the world, but it is weighted far too much to Asian and southeast Asian countries. The investor immigrant program is not a bad one but the bar is not only set too high but the criteria is far too simple. There should be more accounting for people of your education and abilities. 
+Brad Esau yep...a few years ago one needed to be $100,000 liquid to move here legally, which really points out the cruelty of our system.

as to the claim made by that william tatum person about some 22,000 FISA warrants being granted in 2012: according to MSNBC, 1,789 FISA approved warrants were issued in 2012.

while i was mistaken about it being The Daily Show, and not Stephen Colbert, i am not wrong about the mind-bogglingly wrong, and inflated number that tatum person claims.

+Brad Esau oh, and i HATE texas...

if there existed a shiny red, magical button i could press to make texas disappear forever, as though it had never existed at all, i would crawl naked over broken glass and dog shit to get to it.
+Rachelle Greene - I hear ya. I have another online friend who lives in some little Buttf**k, Texas town. Total weird hair, weird dressing tattooed liberal in a redneck town. She hates it too. She's used to living in NYC and Mexico. Her only saving grace is that she speaks fluent Spanish and gets along well with the Latino community. She had to return there though to take care of her mom . 

Hhhhmmm, I'm single and looking. Maybe I should offer myself as a source of a CDN passport. I'll have to rent Green card and see how it works. ;)
+Rachelle Greene Todd was right, you openly accused people of being angry with the Obama administration due to racism.

Block people all you like, but it's your own cognitive dissonance that's to blame. 
In Texas, they whip progressives like yard ducks....we have no hope. There are 3 democrats left here and they are all hiding in a geodesic dome in Austin. In Texas you mow your yard and find a Republican. There are more dumbass redneck Republicans here than hogs and fireants.
Texas is also home to the most racially diverse and accepting city in the country according to an NPR report this morning (Houston).

But yeah, I can see how ad hominem might be your only argument, as your "data" on Democrats is quite wrong.

The governor before Perry was a multi-term Democrat. The mayor of Houston and the previous mayor of Houston, Democrats. Mayor of Dallas, Democrat. Mayor of San Antonio, Democrat.

So if you two don't mind, please stop spewing less than factual information and ad hominem and maybe get back on topic. 
+Jeffrey Hamby please, help me out: i have read, and reread everything i wrote here, and i do not see what you see.

can you show me a direct quote?

...and by which definition is georgie-boy a Democrat??? he would punch you in the face for that, and he should.
...and no one needs to tell me about Houston. we are the most diverse american city, but i don't know about "accepting."

do you have a direct quote on that?


i thought not.

we are the third greatest port, and the fourth greatest city; the only american city with more theatre seats is NYC; John F. Kennedy slept his last night on Earth here; the american indians who lived here before the criminals and carpetbaggers killed them all were cannibals who also enjoyed leaving fish out on the beach, so that sweet, juicy maggots could fill them up, and that was a delicacy for them...
they are fine with any amount of lunacy, so long as the guy in The Oval is not Black

+Rachelle Greene your words, no?

And you're correct. Ann Richards was two governors before Perry.

I notice you ignored the rest of my comment though. I'm not surprised. 
+Jeffrey Hamby congratulations, you can operate a mouse.

while i did in fact refer rather obliquely to Barack Obama, i did not at any point in that post use his name, which is what "openly accused" requires to be true.

i love people are so entertaining.
+Jeffrey Hamby  just so you know, i was editing the post: asshole.

1) the houston chronicle is not PBS, and is not affiliated with PBS, but Houston is the home of the VERY FIRST Public Television Station in the nation!

2) i read the whole thing, and i NEVER SAW THE WORD "ACCEPTING." you do enjoy making shit up, and putting words into people's mouths, don't you?

fuck off; i'm done with you.
BTW: for those unfamiliar with Houston, that "article" he linked to from The Houston Chronicle speaks volumes about their lack of journalistic professionalism: there are many, MANY more than two suburbs of Houston--i live next to one, and he lives in one, too, and neither one is listed in the piece.
Hmm, she blocked me too. Maybe one day cognitive dissonance can be treated. 
Now Jeffrey, all I ask is you read the news in Texas the last 4 years. Its been rough here since the GOP took over. From stripping $5 billion from my childs schools to rampant and open gun sales, unregulated builders screwing consumers and illegals, to medicaid dental scams, to abolishing planned parenthood for poor women, to the governor's goofy presidential run. There are some real tea party crazies running this state now and this state is a mess because if it.
+Mitch Stokely cuts were needed, and anywhere they were made, someone was going to be unhappy. The state was running up debt, and thankfully now has a small surplus.

How exactly does the state screw illegals? And why can't you people stay on topic? 
+Rachelle Greene
It never fails to be George's fault. You statement was worth reading right up till then. Speaking for myself, I was very much opposed to "The patriot act" as where most of the people I spoke to at the time. I did not vote for Obama...... or Romney ..... or McCain and yes I vote. That being said I saw some hope in Mr Obama because of his proposed liberal views. I presumed he would loosen the grip on our personal liberties. Sadly that has not been the case. It is sad indeed that his regime has been so successful because they count success as their ability to CONTROL the population. Turn on your TV, your instructions on what to say, what to do and most importantly what to think about it all.... are forthcoming.
+Jeffrey Hamby
Cuts are needed in every state but if we dont stop cutting education we will end up with a bunch of dumb asses who don't know enough to care that the government is stripping them of their liberties and stealing their labor...... OOPS! Too Late!
+nunya bznss that's the rhetoric, but the numbers say otherwise.

Education spending had increased way beyond the cpi since the advent of the federal Department of Education in the late 70s with no measurable gain in the education provided.

There is no correlation between spending (abs massive increases in spending) and quality of education. 
Rich Republicans in Texas cut public education telling us money doesn't buy a better education, then turn around and send their kids to the richest, most exclusive private schools money can buy! Its called hypocrisy!
Reread my last statement... I dont think you caught the meaning. If you say you believe that money doesnt matter in education then surely white conservatives would all be ok sending their kids to poor inner city schools in Texas.
+Jeffrey Hamby
I would agree with you that the federal department of education is part of the problem not the solution. I would agree that money is being spent poorly and that control of how money is spent on education needs to go back to the state / local level. I do not know what "cpi" is. I do no that in public school today (I have some fairly close ties) the focus is sports and fashion. Public school has much more to do with popularity than education. Throwing huge sums of cash at it is not the answer. Neither is starving it.
We are teaching children how to play ball how to look and act a particular way and how to pass a test. It is truly sad.
+nunya bznss i believe you are poorly informed about precisely whom to blame: the states control curriculum, and the states purchase the same textbooks approved by the Texas Board of Education--which includes Intelligent Design as a viable option to Evolution. you can thank The Heritage Foundation, and the myopic fundamentalist, neo-con creeps on the Texas Board of Education, as well as their sheep cohort in other states for the pathetic curriculum.

The Fed gives states funds for public schools--that's about it. the system under which they allot the funds is broken, but there is an inherent inconsistency from state to state on exactly what the kids in public schools are taught, and that is the fault of The Fed not standardising curriculum as they have no power to do so.

as usual people are blaming The Fed for the garbage the states do to themselves.
+Rachelle Greene Not so. I am more informed than most. I live next door to the Jr high. My GF of 3 years works there as an educator, we are friends with the coach (next door neighbor) Best friend up the road 1.5 miles owns a private school.  GF's best friend of 25 years is a retired educator on the school board. School functions and meetings? We are there. Discussions about public and private school? Daily with the people involved at ground level. I don't live in Texas and maybe things a different there. Who knows but you are incorrect as far as Mo and AR go. I do "know" that. The quality of "public education" has went down hill since the onset of federal government control and it continues to do so. 
I disagreed so I am guessing I am blocked now...... to funny.
+nunya bznss nope. why would i block you? i only block assholes and people whose flavour of crazy is not fun to watch; you do not appear to be one of either of those types of people.

you do know yourself far better than i possibly could, so if you are telling me that you are an asshole, i will believe you.

as to the role of The Fed in public school, there is no such time where they were not called upon to help states pay their bills. the criteria upon which they act and allot tax money have evolved over time, but public schools have never been entirely federal tax dollar free, and have been the business of The Fed since after the Civil War.
Lol +nunya bznss cognitive dissonance again. She can't stand to see an argument that doesn't totally agree with her. 
+Rachelle Greene  Miss you are factually incorrect... but pretty good at copy and paste
. I think Im gonna block you
+nunya bznss oh, ouch...that hurts. i'll never sleep again.

...just like a rethuglican sheeple to believe that simply denying reality will make it go away, and saying someone is wrong makes it so.

anyone capable of following the link i provided, and reading the information there can see that i am not the one who is "factually incorrect."
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