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This is why we #OccupyWallStreet
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Ariel Duschanek-Myers's profile photoTim Smart's profile photoErik Orgell's profile photoDeanna Toxopeus's profile photo
64 comments
 
I want to smack people who are like "It's just a bunch of stupid kids who got into student loan debt". OWS is much more than this. The MSM is misrepresenting the movement at every opportunity they can in a concerted effort to discredit and diminish what they/we are doing. Keep up the good work, Ole!
 
A professor spends his life researching medical issues, so he can teach the next generation and move medicine forward. The next generation gives 10 years of their life going $200,000 plus into debt never leaving a book fighting with temptations to go out with friends, visit family, travel etc. The large hierarchy of people that make cancer treatment possible went through a similar situation. I drank and smoke everyday of my life until I was 45. I chose to sit on my couch and watch TV, party, and go to a job that someone else gave 20 years of pulling out their own hair to get profitable and everyday he hopes revenue maintains high enough so he can pay me and expand to gather more people. I can feed myself, pay rent, and go to the bar. I'm mildly content, but I would rather not improve my situation this would disrupt my sitcom scheduling. I rarely gave effort and am usually hungover at work. I'm now dying, I want my employer that wanted to fire me years ago, but decided to treat his employees like family to pay for it. He can't afford it, because his efficiency isn't that high, he knows the weak spots in his efficiency, but it is tough to find someone that'll give a damn.

I exist why don't those doctors and chemist that worked until their fingers bled treat me for free. Aren't they slaves?
 
False dilemma. If this is the case then why aren't other places with universal healthcare failing as well? Medicine is over-priced because of profit motives not so much because of R&D.
 
Medicine is the only field we need to remove profit motive. I can forgo any material possession but can I forgo the life of a human being because of money?
 
+ofrae ofrae You can't remove the profit motive from anything. The government needs to completely step out and hospitals & insurance providers need to undergo natural competition to drive down prices.
 
Lots of the protesters are healthy enough to get jobs and many of them DO have jobs. The point is that there aren't enough jobs. The point is that the system has been rigged to screw over 99% of us and reward 1%. That means the system is fundamentally broken and must be fixed or replaced.
 
+Matt Makowsky Actually, they are not all protesting ALL day, that is how they have a job, and that is also why they fluctuate in numbers throughout the day and such as people get off or get on work. Some are probably also taking vacation time. Likewise, people have different work schedules so you can have a steady amount at any given time.

Problem solved?
 
+Brendan Foley There is also around the clock places they can donate their time. Soup kitchens, after school programs, fire station, camps for the youth, tutoring, cleaning litter, government agencies & children are always in need. Selfish assholes, I got a problem -- I'm going to stand outside until someone fixes it for me.

The guy in the sign could make social change by donating his time to hospitals around the clock.
Aaron H
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Deregulation will not drive down prices. Look at the history of insurance cos like BCBS before they were privatized. Traditional shareholder profit business models dont work with healthcare, where you can only increase profits by either reducing costs (benefits payouts) or increasing premiums.
 
How dare he take part in Occupy Wall Street when you could so much more efficiently tell him what to do.

Way to totally and completely miss the entire point of Occupy Wall Street. Maybe on purpose, maybe not but you have missed the point, badly.
Aaron H
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+Matt Makowsky -- and how does continue to work, pay bills, raise your family effect any kind of change? It's status quo.

I'm not saying you have to go down there, but if you were against the bailouts and agree with OWS (at ANY level), why would you decry their efforts? How is that helpful and what are you trying to accomplish?
 
+Ryan Mattison perhaps, although I was only addressing how they can have jobs and protest at the same time.

Still, some may argue that they are dedicating their times to this particular cause right now because unethical business and government practices have lead to the worsening of other problems which those other things you mention are trying to address. Soup kitchens, for instance, could be seen as necessary to the extent that they are due to economic problems (common people have less money, thus more need soup kitchens than otherwise would, for instance). Children need more because their parents can't provide due to similar problems, etc.

Or perhaps they don't care as much, I don't know. Although some of the occupy groups have adopted into their cause things like concern for the homeless and such. One way or the other, they could otherwise likewise simply be sitting at home doing nothing or watching TV or something or whatever other entertaining activity they choose. Could be considered selfish as well, but that's what most people do in general, isn't it?
Aaron H
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+Matt Makowsky I agree that the administrative costs alone are ridiculous.

But still -- when you have a "for-profit" health insurance company, where the executives want all the perks that an executive would get in a private sector business, that money has to come from somewhere.

When they promise their shareholders increased profits every year, that money has to come from somewhere.
 
+Matt Makowsky the premise of your argument still seems to be that these people are unemployed, which is false as has already been pointed out to you.
Aaron H
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Exposure and bringing attention to the issue of wealth inequity -- there are many people that STILL don't know how bad the wealth disparity is here and how we're getting screwed by the rich with their tax cuts.

If it's going to remain a non-violent protest, the strength is in the solidarity. The Bank Transfer week was a great example of this -- over 650k have transferred from big banks to credit unions since September; more transfers than all of 2010. The silly signs, costumes, chants, etc -- it's a PRESENCE. It's showing discontent and showing visual in-your-face dissatisfaction in a way that cannot be dismissed as easily as throwing a petition into a trashcan.

Iceland and Egypt have both undergone radical change in their governance through non-violent means of resistance. The way we're doing it may be a little different but I suppose that's just how Americans do it.

My point is that doing SOMETHING different is more likely to effect change than doing NOTHING different.
Aaron H
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+Matt Makowsky "The vast majority don't have jobs" is as much of a naked assertion saying that they all do; since you are requiring substantiation for the latter, it is only fair that you substantiation should be required for your claim as well.

I AM employed; full-time, in a professional position, making upper five figures. I live about 5 hrs away from NYC and I go down there as often as is possible. I've been down there for three weekends so far in the past six weeks.

Just because you are unwilling / unable to do that due to your family life or general apathy or whatever doesn't mean you have to decry those that DO go down there or perpetuate misinformation about them.
Aaron H
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"Lesson 1 in life: worry about yourself, not what your cheating class mate is doing at your side." <-- the difference here is that there's no teacher holding that cheating classmate accountable; in fact the teacher is changing the class rules to make it even easier for that cheating classmate to cheat further.

I would love to worry about my own life, but I have two young kids that are going to have to grow up in the world that I'm passing on to them. I am NOT happy with how things are and I'll be damned if I'm going to pass the buck onto them without trying to make things better.
Aaron H
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+Jese Llavona The fact that you are told so many things it makes your head explode is BECAUSE there are so many things that are wrong. If you look at the complaints, they are not random, though.

If I had to boil it down to one central idea, it's that the private sector / corporate influence on governance has created a feedback loop that amplifies said influence by both concentrating more wealth at the upper end AND using that wealth to lobby for more control. Both of these things are against the interests of the majority of us, whom those elected officials are purported to represent.

Does that help?
Aaron H
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+Matt Makowsky (/cc +Jese Llavona ) There are avowed socialists among their ranks, but the majority of the people I've actually talked to (since I have actually been there, and Matt has only read stuff / watched videos on the internet / television) just want the playing field to not be so ridiculously skewed.

A free market / capitalist society should not privatize the profits and socialize the risk. Subsidies and corporate welfare are just two of many ways that the Free Market economy is subverted by private sector interests.
 
+Jese Llavona They want a society without competition. If you're doing better than your friend the government comes and takes your extra away so you're the same as your friend.
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+Matt Makowsky "That's what I did... on my own." <-- sure, for YOURSELF and perhaps your own family -- but that's a bit selfish, don't you think?

I actually care about my fellows around me and what happens to them. It is far better to act towards an end that is both better for the self AND the group than it is to act only in one's own self-interest. (see: prisoner's dilemma)
Aaron H
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+Jese Llavona Essentially, yes. There are tens of thousands (maybe more) registered lobbyists in DC. Most of them make far more than what our government officials make, and through campaign donations (read: bribes) and other means, they are able to sway governance to the favor of the private interests for whom they lobby.
 
+Aaron H You must of had a bad elementary school or something? No king of the hill at recess?
Aaron H
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+Matt Makowsky I'm not asking for everyone to be equal, and the fact that you continue to believe that means you aren't actually listening to anything anyone is telling you. I'm asking for an equal PLAYING FIELD. The American dream has been usurped to favor those that are already wealthy, and they continue to tilt things to make them even wealthier -- and like with insurance companies: that money has to come from somewhere.
Aaron H
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+Ryan Mattison There's a reason that game is played by CHILDREN. Learning compassion is part of growing up. Clearly +Matt Makowsky missed out on that lesson.

+Jese Llavona - The government guard changes, but the pressure from the lobbyists is consistent, producing the same results. Changing the people in government will not stop the problem -- you have to change the cause of the problem. It's not so simple as "the gov't is taking bribes" -- the whole campaigning system is skewed in a way that it basically necessitates them to take these campaign donations because if they don't, their competitor will.

I believe the government would ultimately resolve itself to be more "for the people" if the private lobbying / financing was removed from the equation.
Aaron H
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+Jese Llavona If you think the target should be government, work through this thought experiment with me:
Let's say that they protest congress / whitehouse. And let's say that every single person in both establishments is replaced. Then what? The lobbying continues, and the new people in there end up doing exactly the same thing, since they need money to fund their campaigns.
Aaron H
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+Jese Llavona I'm not saying the government is completely innocent here, I'm simply saying that the private sector influence on government is the point of corruption. And it's all legal (for the most part...some might be gray area).

If I'm very wealthy, and I want to be more wealthy, I can provide campaign finance to various congress people that are sympathetic (or can become sympathetic) to my interests. If that person is the "better person" and decides to NOT take my donation, I'll either fund their competitor or just run a smear campaign against them (because hey, I have money!).

A 2006 Supreme Court ruling granted Corporations the right to free speech, which means they can donate any amount of money to or on behalf of a candidate for public office; unrestricted and anonymously.

If I am a candidate, the only rational decision is to take that campaign money or be independently wealthy. I could re-neg on my promises to those interests, but then there's no chance I'd be re-elected. If there were term limits (for example: 1 term) for congress, that would address part of this issue, but not all of it.

I suppose that if you were to load the government with only people that had all agreed to NOT take campaign financing, then they would be resilient to this problem -- but again, that's basically what OWS is all about: not acting entirely selfishly, like +Matt Makowsky has been advocating. You have to act in both your OWN interest AND the interest of the group.
 
So much wrongness in one thread. OWS is NOT about socialism, it is about fixing the system that has made the super rich richer while making the rest of us poorer. This is about a broken system favoring those who do not need more money and screwing over those that absolutely do. This is about predatory lending practices that the big banks KNEW were toxic.

This is about a broken system in need of a major overhaul. If you aren't part of the solution then you are part of the problem. Period.
Aaron H
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+Jese Llavona There is no one office that can be elected to rule over everything. The fact that campaign financing is necessary is pretty much the main problem. And that 2006 ruling which lets corporations spend money on whatever they want during campaigns makes it even worse.

S&P lowering the American Credit rating was a responsible thing to do -- our credit is shit, honestly. The fact that it had only been lowered that much is generous on their part.

I feel like you are wanting to make this issue simplified so that it is easier to understand or communicate, and I don't think that is possible. It's a HUGE problem with a LOT of ramifications -- it IS mind-blowing, so your initial reaction is pretty much dead-on. But all of that doesn't mean that it's untrue.
Aaron H
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+Jese Llavona "Now as for greed and all that other stuff. I cannot hate on the rich wanting to become richer. I would step on any one else to become rich. even if it hurts some one. My family comes first." <-- Greed is a fool's game. It makes me sad to see you say that you would do that. I can't change your mind on that, of course, only you can.

Something to consider: Let's say that you could become richer -- how much money would be enough for you?
Aaron H
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+Ryan Mattison "They want a society without competition. If you're doing better than your friend the government comes and takes your extra away so you're the same as your friend." <-- Not true.

I can't speak for all of them, but I just want a system to where my money is not being either (a) given to those more wealthy than me who don't need it or (b) is given to my competition (if I am a business owner).

For (a) -- every time they give tax cuts to the wealthy, that deficit is paid for by the rest of us. There's no Free Lunch. When they give tax cuts to everyone, the wealthy take home the largest nominal amount (and again, the rest of us pay for it).

For (b) -- if I run a small business in a town, and a corporate store opens up shop, they will often demand sales/property Tax abatement / TIF districts for some number of years (Wal-Mart does this a LOT). My taxes that my business pays for are now funding my competitor. After 5 years or however long, they will demand a renewal of that same abatement or they'll just leave.

This isn't about making everyone equally wealthy -- it's about making it once again possible to have upward mobility and the possibility of becoming successful.
Aaron H
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+Jese Llavona "With the issue being the way it is with no direction and no end game how will there be change. singing in the streets will not change a system."

If you want things to remain the same, the surest way is to do nothing at all. While I agree that "Singing in the streets" may not accomplish anything, they are doing more than that. Bank Transfer Day is a start. I would hope that things can continue without violence.

+Jese Llavona "Until i can ride around on poor people with money at the end of a fishing line for them to move. It might sound crazy but what I'm trying to say is there is no cap. I would make more until i die and only my friends and family would benefit. i have seen my fellow man let me down people that would see you get mugged only to look away and keep walking. no i will never value any one else only my own ends and my families. But i always want to learn more so i ask all these questions."

That's really sad. You do realize that "poor people" are other human beings, right? They have hopes and dreams and a whole range of human experiences just like you and I. If I believed in god I'd pray for you; I can only hope that someday you may learn compassion. You should find some of these people and talk to them sometime -- ask them about their lives; what they live for, what they love. It sounds like, through whatever kind of hardships you've faced, you've hardened yourself to objectify and dehumanize others for your own survival. That's no way to live, man. :/
 
+Jese Llavona OWS is, to me (and it will be different to every person you speak to) is what happens when enough people realize that the system has been gamed. That our financial system is making billions for the same people that nearly destroyed our economy through their own negligence and hubris.

Every protester at an Occupy and those of us online, we all have our own reasons for standing up against the system.

Remember when America was all about prosperity for all? Remember when all of us benefited from a strong Wall St.? Those days are gone because of unfettered and unregulated greed.

Among the many things I'd like to see addressed is the reversal of the Citizen's United ruling that allows corporations to donate as much money as they want into the political process. Corporations aren't people, they should have literally no hand in the works at all. Ever.

The chasm between the haves and have nots (and if you are reading this then you are a Have not) is growing at an unparalleled rate.

OWS is, to me, about prosperity for all. About fairness for all. About leveling the playing field so that each of us has an opportunity to rise up through our own hard work. I am not about rewarding people for merely existing. I am about making things more fair for the people that DO work harder to make a better life for themselves and their families.

The current system does not work as advertised anymore and America is no longer the beacon of opportunity it once was.
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+Jese Llavona "Survival of the Fittest" was a term coined by an Economist, not a Biologist. (biologically, it would be more correct to say "those that are best adapted to their environment stand the best chance of survival." -- being "fit" in this case may just mean "having the smallest stomach / stature so you can eat less"). What you're talking about is more "Social Darwinism" and has NOTHING to do with anything in the natural world.

Not "trying hard enough" or not "working hard enough" is bullshit. I know people that have busted their ass their whole lives and never made any substantial progress vertically. (for example: can you really say that Kim Kardashian is working harder than someone that digs ditches or does factory work?). There is a glass ceiling -- I myself felt it when changing jobs last year; I was underpaid at my last job and all but one of my job prospects used that as a means to low-ball me on salary.

If you are sociopathic enough to beg,borrow and steal your way to the top, then so be it. The climb up that ladder will be wrought with plenty of other people with similar mores (or lack thereof), and you will probably see a rather macabre side of humanity that may wake you up from that rat race.

We all die in the end; even Steve Jobs, one of the richest men in the world, could not prevent his life from ending early.
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+Erik Orgell I agree! And I have to split now, so you'll have to take over. :)
 
+Jese Llavona I would recommend watching livestream.com/globalrevolution for better insights. The MSM has a serious conflict of interest in covering the protests.

As for changes I'd make? Reverse the Citizen's United court ruling immediately and get corporate money out of the election system.

Close tax loopholes that allow the largest corporations on the planet to pay no taxes.

Reward corporations for keeping jobs within the US.

Allow corporations to reduce their tax burden by sponsoring social programs we need in the US.

Punish corporations that hide their profits outside the country to avoid paying their fair share of taxes on it in the hopes that their purchased politicians can push a Tax Holiday through and they can avoid the legitimate taxation on those profits.

Prosecute those within the financial sector responsible for the economic meltdown. There have been, to date, zero arrests for the near destruction of our economy while there have been thousands of people arrested for protesting.

These are just off the top of my head, some are from others, some are mash ups of other ideas I've seen or read. The system is so badly broken right now that most anything we improve will make a difference.
 
+Aaron H I'll try but I'm trying to eat lunch (chicken wings) and my keyboard is shooting me horrified looks. I'll be back in shortly though.
 
+Matt Makowsky this is why it is a good thing my argument for or against the group does not rely on the assumption one that they have or do not have employment.
 
+Jese Llavona Thanks! I try to be as proactive as possible. Knowing how we got here is important but knowing where we are trying to go is, in my opinion, much more important.

There was a gentleman taking questions the other night on Global Revolution that helped alot of this "gel" for me. I would very much like to watch the video again. His name was Frank the Impaler and he is a 1%er but understands the system is jacked and needs to be fixed. He was frank (while also being Frank), honest and open to answering questions on anything. Totally awesome to watch and learn from! I will see about trying find a video or transcript and posting it.
 
Reality check people. Canada has universal healthcare and is doing fine. My mom got her treatments for breast cancer within three months. The breast cancer that was caught because the screening is paid for by the tax payer. She is still a contributing member of society. And her doctors got paid a better wage than I do and are also doing fine. What we don't have are insurance companies that are looking to increase their profits by denying people like my mom care. So your argument +Ryan Mattison is ridiculous.

And BTW, Canada is also one of the few western nations that didn't have to bail out its banks. (I think we are the only member of the G7 that can boast that.) Why? Because we didn't deregulate them. They weren`t allowed at the cookie jar without supervision.

So government intervention, looking good from where I`m sitting right now.
 
+Deanna Toxopeus Canadian work ethic is like US Midwest work ethic which is NOT EQUAL to US work ethic. This is the variable your calculations are missing.
 
+Ryan Mattison So you are implying that the coasts are populated by slackers? Good luck with that. By the way, that internet you're using? It exists because of Silicon Valley which is NOT in the midwest, it happens to be in California. You're welcome.

The problem isn't work ethic, it's that the corporations and banks cheated and rewrote the rules to make it impossible for them to lose. Too big to fail? So they went right ahead and proved it by flushing 20% of the nation's value down the toilet.
 
Wow, I come back and this thread has erupted. First of all, +Matt Makowsky is a wingnut who doesn't deserve any of our time. I have blocked the troll, and look forward to never having to read another batshit crazy comment of his ever again.
+Ryan Mattison How nice of you to focus in on one tiny little incident and cite that insanely dumb site try to demean the patriots in the streets who are trying to stand up to corporate tyranny. Convenient that you ignore an unarmed camera man who was shot with a rubber bullet in Oakland for no reason what so ever: Shot by police with rubber bullet at Occupy Oakland

I'm from Greater Minnesota too, and wonder how in a state with such good education you could turn out like you were raised in Mississippi.
 
+Ryan Mattison Way to over-simplify something you clearly know little to nothing about. You are not arguing rationally or logically or even bothering to refute direct rebuttals of your baseless and ignorant accusations. I will not be trolled by you any longer. Good day.
 
The Occupy Blob looks to be just a Blob, it needs structure to do anything with purpose, you are not the new Tea Party, just a blob with no defined purpose or goal. Find some spokes people that are willing to end up in jail for your goals.

From what I see via News coverage, that is the only way I have been able to get educated on this Occupy concept. I will explain why later, and I hope that it is comprehended why I am unable to learn by first hand experience. From what I have learned is those in the protest groups are under the ms-conception that they were told go to school and you will get a high paying job and become rich. The one thing they lost in this dream is to get rich is never automatic, you have to work your ass off at the beginning to even get on the wealth ladder to start climbing it to wealth. Becoming rich is never an automatic action, but for some wealth can be given to them by others that have climbed the ladder to being rich.

On January 13th 1989 I became wealthy on paper in a court decision awarded to me because of a drunk driver, I was awarded multi millions for my injuries. I was in the back passenger seat of a Pathfinder that was being driven by my friend at the time from his Mountain home near Conifer Colorado, just above Denver. He drove off the road and rolled down a slope of a valley. I was not wearing a seat belt, and for a good reason, and that was because there was none to be worn. The driver and owner of the 4x4 removed them because his daughter got her finger stuck in the clasp and did harm to her finger in getting unstuck from the clasp. I was only expected to be awarded a 5 to 6 figure total because I was not wearing a seat belt. When I remembered why there was no seat belt the next day I learned that I was awarded 7 figures.

That was the short and easy part as to why the Federal government says I can not work and must stay on SSDI Welfare for life. As the 4x4 rolled down the mountain slope and I bounced around the middle of the Pathfinder, I suffered many injuries. First the decorative roll bar in the Pathfinder was crushed and ripped open slicing my head open exposing my brain. Many other parts of the crushed vehicle injured me by ripping off my nose, left ear and shreading much of my abdomen. Also most of my bones were either broken or cracked so I was in a body cast for 9 weeks, I was also in a Coma for 10 weeks due to the Major head injury of my brain being exposed.

When I awoke I had lost all my memory, and had to learn every thing over again, all the way from language to how to eat with out filling my lungs with food. So much for the medical and my 374 days in the hospital. Most of it was at Craig Hospital, after I was released from Denver General's intensive care, I even died on the ER table there as they started putting my body parts together as the one person I was before the accident. That was the easy part, then came the legal aspect, to not start a book explaining the details I'll just cover the major topics.

The driver was given 8 years and 2 months for his second DUI, the first was in New Jersey in the city his multi millionaire father lived. The DUI in that state that he caused was were he won almost a million and was the money that allowed him to move back to Colorado, were I first met him as he worked for me. My first real Job was at Pizza Hut of which I had worked my way up to becoming Assistant Manager. I did not want to become Manager because I had gone through 3 Managers that left due to developing Ulcers due to job stress. The driver was a Pizza Cook, and left his Job because he turned himself in to the NAVY for which he was AWOL from. A few years later he returned after his fathers lawyers where able to give him almost a million for his DUI in New Jersey. He used that money to buy a Mountain home,

While in doing his prison term in Colorado he escaped for 23 months and was found hiding at his fathers home in New Jersey were I told them to look after my lawyer learned 11 moths after his escape of his escape. I or my legal people were never informed because in their eyes he was not a big danger even tho he nearly killed me and disabled me for life. From what I've been told one day was added to his prison term for his 23 month escape vacation.

After he was released I was allowed to sue him, because of laws and I not being a Corporation I could not sue him as he was in State Prison. Six months after his release I could aford to sue him to start collecting my awarded millions. In this lawsuit I learned many things, The most important one was that state law protected the Defendant so my legal people could not learn or get copies of his status. I won the lawsuit but in the victory I then learned that I could collect nothing because he was in Prison again for Drug dealing. So I lost about $5,000 in legal fees. Then two months later I was charged by the IRS for tax evasion on the millions I was awarded in 1990. But because of state law protecting those serving Jail Terms I could not get copies of the 1990 Judgement awarding me my winnings. This cost another nearly $5,000 in legal fees. As the driver was released my lawyers got copies of the court records and on page one of the Court Derision it states that this was a non taxable judgement that I was awarded. I also learned that to get back the legal fees I had to pay to save myself from the IRS I had to sue the defendant again. I also learned that the only way I could collect any money was to garnish his wages. And in doing so as a private non corporate citizen or entity I was only allowed to collect a maximum of $1,440.00 per year but it would as it had already cost me around $5,000 in 1998 prices. If I had to pay no court fees at that rate by the year 2344 and with no interest fees placed on the money I would recieve my last payment. In figuring Net values I would pace $5 to make $1.44.

The other nice aspect I learned in the process is if I were to leave SSDI welfare I am then liable to the IRS to pay the $1.83 million the Federal Government was forced to pay for my medical bills. This even after I was covered by my own insurance. But I also learned that I was kicked out of Graig Hospital because my medical bills had exceeded the then legal forfeit limit that Insurance company's had with the Government set at $300,000.00 in 1973. So my Insurance Company was allowed to forfit my case to the federal government. The day my case was handed to the US Government, they would no longer pay my medical bills so Craig Hospital evicted me.

At this present time I am not allowed to gain any employment that will invalidate my Welfare status, or the IRS is then able to start collecting the medical bills they paid. To express how I feel about this would use about every four letter word in the book, but to express it in public printable words. I've been told to bend over and take it in comfort, and I can not even tell them to use a lubricant so it does not hurt as much.

I may not be suffering in the same ways that the occupy groups feel hurt in, but I may be able to understand some of their pain and anger. But I still feel that in many of the ways they express themselves they are doing it in the wrong methods. First off they need to stop acting like they are the blob, with no structure or organizational purpose besides just fun and pleasure. I know this unstructured form is ment as a way of protection, but it also hides your purpose in it's blob mass.

P.S. to this date I have collected a negative $10,000.00.
 
Really, +Ryan Mattison? Why is Canada is leading the Americans in growth right now? Why are Canadians being marketed to by your real estate agents to buy some of the vast amounts of foreclosed property in the US? Because our middle class has money to spend right now. Because our government kept the banks regulated, meaning we didn't waste tax payers money on this debacle and have it for other things, like healthcare.

Notice you haven't addressed my argument with tangibles, instead you have gone to some general statements about work ethic, trying to smear Canadians as lazy. Nice. Classy. Troll-like.

Did I ever do that about the US? No. Because I actually know something about my neighbour to the south. And I find that, aside from the very small percentage of you that worship at the FoxNews altar, you are some of the nicest, most generous people on earth. When I visit, your countrymen are polite to a fault, and are willing to help me out, answer questions and offer thoughtful advice.

So instead of your knee-jerk, Glen Beck reaction, learn some real facts about your number one trading partner. The one who shares the longest undefended border with you. The first one with whom you entered into a free-trade agreement. The one who took your planes on 9-11 and housed the passengers until it was deemed safe to fly. The one who has been your friend again and again, because you've done the same for us.
 
Deanna, it seems like the difference of a two sided coin, Ryan may say things out of anger, and you may reply out of counter anger. And at times it may appear that Canada migh be liberal cental, but that is just a view that some may market to get noticed. I may feel that America is losing to a Commie invasion that started with Korea stopping in a stalemate. Or it was something that Sen. Mc Carthy could see and no one else desired to see. But this is a benifit to the world lobbing words at each other rather than Atomic Bombs. Is it possible to not go to war and just say we do not see thinks the same.
 
+Dean Holyer TL;DR. That and you slag OWS needlessly so yeah, not bothering with your long winded BS.
 
+Erik Orgell Haha, I deleted my refute because you deleted your claim that we can thank Silicon Valley, CA for the Internet.
 
+Deanna Toxopeus I'm not going to read it all, but from the first sentence I think you took my statement for the opposite of what it was. I was saying that the Canadian middle class as a whole has VERY strong work ethic and sense. This isn't true for the US.
 
+Ryan Mattison I blocked you because you're a troll with nothing of substance to add to the conversation. And will be going back to blocking you momentarily.
 
Deanna if you are American and can get paid for do nothing that is an ideal job, the concept is get paid the most for the least work you can do. It may not be the proper way to do things but that is what greed gives you as a desire. The other work tactic is if you want to get a raise do more work than expected and do not as for more pay. The latter one is the one I go by.
 
+Dean Holyer I read it, so you got in a car with a piss drunk friend or you were ran off the road by a drunk driver. From the seat belts in the back seat I assume the former. Were you unaware your driver was drunk driving in the mountains?
 
Terrible story..not sure how that is connected to Occupy Wall St?
 
I was not sure either, but I figured why not to show others that hardships can be over come if you desire to aim for that task. I may never be over it but I keep aiming to recover.
At times they may do things the incorrect way, but I have also, so do things wrong or incorrect they can be corrected, maybe not efficently but in a process that is acceptable to you and others.
 
Um, seems pretty obvious to me. People shouldn't be put in a place where they are so streched monetarily that they have to choose between having a place to live out their final days or survival. Seems like obvious inequality between economic status and who had the right to continue living.
 
If he was a good friend he would have raised the money for them instead of spending it on paper and pens to make a stupid sign.
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