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Chat Log of Q&A with Mark Shuttleworth

/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/23/#ubuntu-classroom.txt
raja what 13:00
raja help 13:02
jcastro test 14:29
jcastro tap tap 14:59
jcastro 1 minute left 14:59
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ask Mark! - Current Session: Ask Mark on #ubuntu-classroom - Instructors: sabdfl
jcastro Ok everyone 15:00
jcastro Mark is on his way 15:00
jcastro welcome to Ask Mark! 15:00
sabdfl hello hello 15:01
jcastro here is the intro piece: http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/12842730458/ask-mark-wednesday-23-november-1500utc 15:01
jcastro this is how this will work 15:01
jcastro in #ubuntu-classroom-chat you can ask questions 15:01
jcastro you need to preface it with the word QUESTION: 15:01
jcastro for example ... 15:01
jcastro QUESTION: Mark, what is with that moustache? 15:01
sabdfl it's for charity! 15:01
jcastro and then the bot will pick it up and pass it along 15:01
jcastro so without further delay, good morning sabdfl! 15:01
sabdfl and a very generous donor, Callum MacDonald, stepped up hugely 15:02
sabdfl so i will grow it even bigger 15:02
sabdfl if you appreciate having a laugh at the sad state of my face, please donate generously too 15:02
sabdfl and i will match your donation 15:02
jcastro Where can people donate? 15:02
sabdfl http://mobro.co/smonaut 15:03
sabdfl of course 15:03
sabdfl NEXT! 15:03
ClassBot candt_ asked: I see Ubuntu is retailing in China and Portugal (great!) What release? LTS? 15:03
sabdfl varies, depending on the manufacturer 15:03
sabdfl we have adopted a wicked new plan for LTS updates though 15:03
sabdfl so if a machine is certified with a non-LTS release, you will still be able to run it with the LTS userspace 15:03
sabdfl next! 15:04
ClassBot AlanBell asked: Do you really think you can compete with iOS and Android on TV/Tablet/Phone? 15:04
sabdfl with your help, we have a chance 15:04
sabdfl design is really important, as is our ability to deliver a platform that is perceived to be more open 15:04
sabdfl i think this is vital, or client-side linux will ultimately stay limited to, shall we say, the technologically blessed 15:05
sabdfl next! 15:05
ClassBot AlanBell asked: If I wanted to contribute to TV/Tablet/phone, what's the best thing I can do in the community? 15:05
sabdfl participate on the relevant mailing lists 15:05
sabdfl participate when the sdk efforts begin, around QML and HTML5 15:05
sabdfl help with unity-3d and -2d, which will feature 15:05
sabdfl next! 15:05
ClassBot dmj726 asked: What do you think of having an unmodified version of Software Center as a requirement for branding something as an Ubuntu Phone? This way if a company could only brand their device as an Ubuntu Phone if it kept Software Center (with access to the Ubuntu repositories and the ability to add additional software sources). Otherwise it would be based on Ubuntu but not a branded Ubuntu Phone. 15:06
sabdfl yes, i think the android experience has taught everyone about the risks of fragmentation 15:06
sabdfl i hope we can improve somewhat on that position 15:06
sabdfl next! 15:06
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: What do you think of people , chastising everything Ubuntu including its users by some who consider themselves Elite, will 12.04 put an end to this (marginally)? 15:06
sabdfl there are of course valid criticisms 15:08
sabdfl and we can't be too thin-skinned about opinions 15:08
sabdfl that said, some of the most passionate complaints are from users in two bugs, with directly opposite desires 15:09
sabdfl bug (a) says an action should go left, bug (b) says it should go right 15:09
sabdfl and some of the voices in each bug are unreasonably insistent on their position 15:09
sabdfl the design team has to resolve those, and also has to put us ahead of the curve 15:09
sabdfl we won't compete if we constantly wait for ideas to be validated elsewhere 15:10
sabdfl i'm pretty proud of our record of innovatoin 15:10
sabdfl tion, even 15:10
sabdfl we had U1 before iCloud, or the Windows equivalents 15:10
sabdfl we introduced overlay scrollbars first 15:10
sabdfl we designed Unity with a single icon left launcher, and full screen search, before anybody else 15:10
sabdfl Apple's launchpad, and Gnome Shell, all came later 15:11
sabdfl change will always make people pissy 15:11
sabdfl but i think, if we voxed you all in the channel, you would say you want the platform of the future, not one from the past 15:11
sabdfl so that's what we're working on 15:11
sabdfl and we do it with integrity, and care 15:11
sabdfl next! 15:11
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: When will Ubuntu reach the Indian shore in the form of hardware pre installed with Ubuntu like its in Africa , Portugal? 15:11
sabdfl hmmm... i think it's already pre-installed in india, from some manufacturers 15:12
sabdfl dell, lenovo, and some local brands iirc 15:12
sabdfl next! 15:12
jcastro this one might be too localized, but giving it a shot: 15:12
ClassBot Andy80 asked: I've seen that the Asus 1215P with Ubuntu preinstalled is also available in Italy from many vendors (Mediaworld, Amazon.it, e-Price ecc...) why no news about it? No advertisement ecc... is it just experimental? Thanks 15:12
sabdfl I tihnk it's just becoming more normal. Best thing you can do is buy one and blog it! 15:13
sabdfl next 15:13
ClassBot conscioususer asked: Considering how large of a step Unity was, and the fact that it still needs polish on the desktop alone, isn't availability of resources a concern for the phone/tv/etc plans? 15:13
sabdfl sure it is. all help gratefully accepted :-) 15:13
sabdfl there is a steady flow of contributions, which is fantastic 15:14
sabdfl there's lots we would like to fix, but must focus on the core 15:14
sabdfl it's a fun project to hack on, and millions get to enjoy the result 15:14
sabdfl plus, you get OMG-love 15:14
sabdfl we're growing the Unity team internally, but the perfectionism of a community process cannot be beaten 15:15
sabdfl so the more, the merrier 15:15
sabdfl next! 15:15
ClassBot dmj726 asked: Do you see integration and sharing between TVs, phones, tablets, and PCs as being critical to the success of Ubuntu on mobile devices? 15:15
sabdfl yes! 15:15
sabdfl next 15:15
ClassBot candt_ asked: Any plans to increase 'marketing to the community' (spin?) to help heal some GUI-shock 'wounds'? 15:15
sabdfl our community doesn't want spin, they want to help 15:15
sabdfl and there are lots of effective ways for folk to participate and help 15:16
sabdfl i see a lot more people willing to say 'hold on, stop the bitching, i love unity, and i want it to succeed' 15:16
sabdfl and that's what will make a success of it 15:16
sabdfl next! 15:16
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: You seem to don't care much about what opinions others form of you(as I have estimated by reading and hearing you) but why do you think people Ignore the Hard work done by You/Ubuntu for the betterment of FOSS? 15:16
sabdfl why do you think i am subscribed to every comment on every bug on unity, if you don't think i care much about what people report, or comment? 15:17
sabdfl it takes up a lot of my day, this approach to not caring ;-) 15:17
sabdfl it's easy to say someone doesn't care about everyone, if they disagree with you 15:17
sabdfl it's harder if you first acknowledge that they care as much about you as about 19 million other users 15:18
sabdfl who have needs and rights too 15:18
sabdfl my first responsibility is to ubuntu users 15:18
sabdfl the ubuntu spirit is not about demanding that someone else make things the way you want them, is it 15:18
sabdfl as our community has become more high profile, it's more tempting for people to show up and make demands 15:18
sabdfl we have no need ot listen to them 15:18
sabdfl none whatsoever 15:19
sabdfl we need to strengthen the bonds between those of us who actually work on the project every day 15:19
sabdfl trust people to lead in their part of the project 15:19
sabdfl i trust the security team to make serious judgement calls, every single day 15:19
sabdfl i don't need to second-guess them 15:19
sabdfl i don't expect them to be perfect 15:19
sabdfl but i know that getting too many opinions in there will only make it worse 15:20
sabdfl similarly, on design and engineering, as a community we need to ask whether we have confidence in the process by which responsibility is allocated 15:20
sabdfl then trust those to whom it is allocated 15:20
sabdfl in other communities, it's OK to second-guess any decision by any member 15:20
sabdfl that results in a total inability to take any serious decision in less than 5 years 15:21
sabdfl and we will NOT compete with android like that 15:21
sabdfl so, here's the deal: join, commit, contribute, excel, and you can expect to be trusted with serious parts of ubuntu 15:21
sabdfl and you can expect that i will defend you from the chorus of naysayers, beggars and critics 15:21
sabdfl next! 15:21
ClassBot koolhead11 asked: Mark, when can we have visible Ubuntu certification/Training program happening 2 take on with other enterprise Linux Vendors, as people need workforce and assurance before hiring and adopting something at enterprise level 15:21
sabdfl we setup a training program very early 15:22
sabdfl but there was little demand 15:22
sabdfl and it was too thinly spread around the world 15:22
sabdfl first, we need to see substantial deployments 15:22
sabdfl then the demand will be there 15:22
sabdfl the good news is, enterprise adoption of ubuntu is growing steadily 15:22
sabdfl people are starting to trust us, we have delivered like clockwork for seven years 15:23
sabdfl help promote large scale corporate deployments, and that will create demand for training 15:23
sabdfl if you have an urgent need, we can probably create something custom 15:23
sabdfl next! 15:23
ClassBot jussi asked: Mark, How involved are OEMs with canonical at this time in the direction of the Ubuntu phone, TV and tablet offerings? 15:23
sabdfl btw, happy thanksgiving to all you yanks, tomorrow 15:23
sabdfl jussi, it's easy for them to express interest at this stage, the test will be once we actually have product in hand 15:24
sabdfl so for now, it's all very encouraging 15:24
sabdfl but then, it would be :-) 15:24
sabdfl next! 15:24
ClassBot txwikinger asked: How do you think can entrepreneurs build a business model around Ubuntu in a way that it is mutually beneficial for Ubuntu and the startup? 15:24
sabdfl ensure that production pieces of your ubuntu deployments are covered by Ubuntu Advantage 15:25
sabdfl and that's good enough for me 15:25
sabdfl next! 15:25
ClassBot dmj726 asked: Do you see Ubuntu TV as being mainly a new platform for consuming content or do you think that making new kinds of collaboration possible should be a key part of Ubuntu TV? An example might be a group get together with their tablets and edit video on their devices with the TV as a shared screen for showing progress and enabling discussion? 15:25
sabdfl the relationship between the shared screen (tv) and the personal screen (phone, tablet, pc) is v interestng, yes 15:26
sabdfl next! 15:26
ClassBot oly_ asked: are there plans to unify apps on these devices, something like i am viewing a youtube video on my phone can i not just move the output to my tv or to a desktop computer i have often wondered why i can not move whats on my screen to another display in a simple manner 15:26
sabdfl good thinking gianlucadv, that sounds worth exploring further 15:26
sabdfl next! 15:26
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: Many a people have taken aversion on you saying to compete with Android with Ubuntu (both being open source siblings), Do you consider ios and other platforms Inferior(I feel they are ;-))? 15:27
sabdfl they are superior in some ways. they are less empowering, but we should recognise great work wherever it happens. smugness doesn't win friends or prizes. 15:27
sabdfl next! 15:27
ClassBot Pendulum asked: how do you see Ubuntu competing in the mobile device world when voice recognition on Linux is pretty much non-existant, but voice recognition on mobile phones is becoming a feature users want more and more? 15:27
sabdfl voice recognition is more a cloud service than a device feature 15:28
sabdfl next! 15:28
ClassBot Andy80 asked: taking in consideration all the improvements incoming to Qt (with the release of Qt5), since we could have the same (or even better) effetcs in QML than we have now in Unity-3D, all of this maintaining the compatibility with non-3D computers, don't you think that keep developing two versions of Unity is a "waste" of resources? Would not be better to concentrate the effort just on the QML/Qt version of Unity? 15:28
sabdfl could be, andy. the unity-3d team need to show that it's worth keeping both versions in play, and the -2d team need to show they can deliver the slick vision we have for unity 15:28
sabdfl think of it as a bit of a race. contribute where you think you can make the biggest impact 15:29
sabdfl next! 15:29
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: There is this general feeling in people that Canonical doesn't care about Ubuntu's official derivatives(which I find to be a misnomer as I am myself using Kubuntu 11.10 and loving it)? 15:29
sabdfl we cannot care about everything 15:29
sabdfl we devote quite alot to make the derivatives possible, but it's up to each community to step up and do the work they say they care about 15:29
sabdfl next! 15:29
jcastro (out of questions, waiting on the queue) 15:30
sabdfl phew! 15:30
ClassBot akshatj_ asked: Android or iOS? 15:30
sabdfl neither, but i plan to try recent versions of both, soon 15:31
sabdfl it's time for me to join the smartphone era 15:32
sabdfl next! 15:32
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: Your reaction on the latest thrashing of Micro$oft by Barnes & Noble against their way of using litigation instead of Innovations philosophy? 15:32
sabdfl the biggest mistake microsoft made was to decide that patents would be an effective defence against new competitors 15:33
sabdfl because that stops you from really innovating yourself 15:33
sabdfl so Microsoft wasted most of a decade, thinking they could use patents to defend the castle. 15:33
sabdfl Meanwhile, others were innovating for real. 15:33
sabdfl The whole patent system is a sham, unfortunately. 15:34
sabdfl Patent authorities cannot realistically do their job; it 15:34
sabdfl it's an impossible job to do. 15:34
sabdfl and the patent system has slowly been twisted to do the exact opposite of its PR 15:34
sabdfl it's not, as many think, a system to defend the little inventor against the big bad corporate. 15:35
sabdfl Instead, it's a system to ensure the big bad corporate doesn't get any scary new competition. 15:35
sabdfl Patents were invented to encourage inventors to publish their trade secrets, because society would benefit from the disclosure. 15:35
sabdfl But we now allow patents on things you could never keep secret in the first place, like software and business methods and medicines. 15:36
sabdfl That's insanity. Innovation happens because people solve problems, not because they might get a monopoly on it. 15:36
sabdfl The reason this is not being changed is simple: legislation evolves to suit those who can influence legislators. And large patent holders tend to be influential in that regard. 15:37
sabdfl next! 15:37
ClassBot dmj726 asked: What are some examples of design either in the Ubuntu community, apps, or in general that have inspired you? 15:37
sabdfl the novacut folks have some really interesting ideas 15:37
sabdfl i like a lot of the elementary work, too 15:37
sabdfl the web is really the place we should look to, and games 15:38
sabdfl those are both fast-moving, agile, competitive, and unconstrained 15:38
sabdfl next! 15:38
ClassBot gianlucadv asked: Recently we have seen some applications migrated from python to vala. Do you think that this trend is going to continue or that python will still be the preferred language for Ubuntu-sanctioned programs? 15:38
sabdfl vala is ok. Go is the future. 15:38
sabdfl next! 15:38
ClassBot oly_ asked: will ubuntu.developer.com develop to be usefull for existing developers quickly looks awesome but it does not seem useful if you already have applications, or are there plans to move an existing project into quickly to simplyfy development 15:38
jcastro (ed: he means developer.ubuntu.com) 15:39
sabdfl no, with most frameworks, if you start out doing your own thing, it's better to keep doing that 15:39
sabdfl quickly is for the new guy who wants to get started, erm, quickly :-) 15:39
sabdfl i would encourage you just to focus on making your apps beautiful, directed, clear, purposeful 15:40
sabdfl and use whatever toolkit you think is effective and interesting 15:40
sabdfl next! 15:40
ClassBot brousch asked: I love Ubuntu, but prefer Gnome Shell to Unity. Are you committed to keeping Gnome Shell supported and easy to install in Ubuntu going forward? 15:40
sabdfl depends how easy the Shell folks make that to achieve 15:40
sabdfl i'm not committed if they decide to make it very difficult, or impossible, or to continue to say things like 'Ubuntu's overlay scrollbars are not compatible with upstream Gnome' ;-) 15:41
sabdfl we worked hard to influence and improve the design of Shell, but it turned out the best way to achieve that was to lead, so we did, and will continue to do so 15:41
sabdfl next! 15:41
ClassBot surgemcgee asked: Is there plans to better Compiz or abondon it as the Unity OpenGL back-end? It seems disconnected and buggy. 15:41
sabdfl compiz needs work, definitely 15:41
sabdfl but it has by far the best rendering pipeline, which lets us deliver fullscreen effects over video, for example 15:42
sabdfl it will improve, help gratefully accepted 15:42
sabdfl next! 15:42
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: You busted the "Power Users don't like Unity myth" in the 12.04 UDS , how much easier will it be for customizations in 12.04 natively unlike 11.10? 15:42
sabdfl we will have time to offer up some settings for unity in 12.04 15:42
sabdfl there's a list of things we're keen to see 15:43
sabdfl contributions of code to put those in place would be accepted 15:43
sabdfl but there will always be people who are upset because they cannot make the launcher bright pink 15:43
sabdfl tough 15:43
sabdfl next! 15:43
ClassBot blumojo_ asked: What is Unity's next step? 15:43
sabdfl 12.04 LTS needs to be lovely on the desktop, and work on the new form factors will kick off 15:44
sabdfl next! 15:44
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: Is there anything to be looked forward in the "codecs may be illegal in your country" as Ubuntu aims for world domination. 15:44
sabdfl can't do much about the law in your country. i think the codec issue will fade as google pushes for open content 15:44
sabdfl next! 15:44
ClassBot gianlucadv asked: in the future, will launchpad support git? 15:44
sabdfl the future is a very big place 15:45
sabdfl next! 15:45
jcastro (waiting on questions) 15:45
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: Do you intend on keeping the Mustache(In my opinion it looks awesome on you)? 15:46
sabdfl if you guys haven't had the pleasure yet, i highly commend jorge's charm school to you :-) 15:46
sabdfl hell no, this rat on my face is torture, i'm earning those donations! 15:46
sabdfl next 15:46
ClassBot vibhav asked: Why is the server version of Ubuntu one closed source? 15:47
sabdfl server of u1 is closed source because we thought our chances of long term survival otherwise were nil. if you know better, go for it! 15:47
sabdfl next 15:47
ClassBot daubers asked: Any chance of further LDAP integration in Ubuntu and more ease of use of setting it up? 15:48
ClassBot surgemcgee asked: Is there plans for a better Terminal app. i.e. Tilda or Guake? 15:49
jcastro bah sorry, 2 for one! 15:49
jcastro (10 minutes left in the session) 15:50
ClassBot There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. 15:50
sabdfl daubers, hmmm... i'm not sure on the ldap front 15:51
sabdfl we're going to do a business desktop remix, because lots of people want a remix without the social bits, and with stuff we wouldn't put in the main ubuntu, like flash and pdf-reader 15:51
sabdfl that sounds like a candidate for ldap work 15:52
sabdfl but 15:52
sabdfl remixes are just package selections, there will be no secret sauce 15:52
sabdfl surgemcgee__, i would love to see guake integrated into the dash, drop them a note and see if they are interested! 15:52
sabdfl next 15:52
ClassBot brousch asked: Canonical has a ton of good Python programmers and is using it heavily. Who do you think has more Python code in use - Canonical or Google? 15:52
sabdfl Gooooooooogle 15:53
sabdfl i think they have a lot of everything :-) 15:53
sabdfl next! 15:53
ClassBot dscassel asked: At UDS-O you said you would work to make the case for Project Harmony to the community. Do you feel you've done that, or will you be saying more about it? And as a spokesperson for Ubuntu, what would you suggest I say to those in the community who consider Harmony harmful? 15:53
sabdfl point out that, today, we have hundreds of custom agreements, few of which have been through any sort of review 15:53
sabdfl Harmony is like the Creative Commons, you may not agree with all the options, but it's been widely debated, reviewed, audited and approved 15:54
sabdfl pint out that iOS and android built huge developer ecosystems in a few years, while the GPL is still limited 15:54
sabdfl ask them when they will be willing to consider whether free software is enough, or whether they must keep adding impossible constraints on companies that are interested in trying it 15:55
sabdfl next! 15:55
ClassBot candt_ asked: have you noticed that Ubuntu has dropped in the Distrowatch click ratings? (It breaks my heart to see...) 15:55
jcastro (Host note: distrowatch doesn't measure usage of distros, just clicks on hits to their distribution pages on their site.) - aka. not a metric. :) 15:55
ClassBot There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. 15:55
sabdfl kudos to mint for the jump in ratings, i'm glad ubuntu has great derivatives, and i'm confidence unity will remain the #1 desktop environment for years to come 15:55
sabdfl next! 15:56
ClassBot gianlucadv asked: when will be able to buy a table with Ubuntu preinstalled? 15:56
jcastro I think he means tablet. 15:56
jcastro but who knows, tables! 15:56
sabdfl :-) 15:56
sabdfl gianlucadv, you'll see developer previews first, and there will be opportunities to help 15:56
sabdfl next 15:57
ClassBot vibhav asked: majority (70% to 80%) of people in Ubuntu community are still under the impression that Ubuntu is a Windows alternative; just judging from the GUI and doing everything from the GUI; they dont even know the difference between Linux and Ubuntu. What do you plan to do to resolve that? 15:57
sabdfl i don't know the difference between fuel diesel and jet-A1, but i enjoy cars and planes 15:57
sabdfl we can't expect to succeed, if we define success as making people care about the same things we do 15:57
sabdfl some people are passionate about lichens 15:58
sabdfl they know a lot more about lichens than i do 15:58
sabdfl i hope they aren't offended if I enjoy walking through mountains with beautiful lichen patterns 15:58
sabdfl and don't want to know the difference between 'em all 15:58
sabdfl we should celebrate users of free software, not be grumpy if they don't decide to grow a beard and learn the free software song 15:59
sabdfl last one! 15:59
ClassBot cyrildz asked: anything about a new icon theme for Precise ? the actual icon-theme look very out ofplace with the modern look of Unity 15:59
sabdfl yes, i agree, we need a new icon theme 16:00
sabdfl we have agreed to do a proper study on iconography, with the university of reading 16:00
ClassBot Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/23/%23ubuntu-classroom.html 16:00
sabdfl and lay out a roadmap for a new icon set, which we will welcome participation 16:00
sabdfl phew 16:01
jcastro ok that's all we have for today 16:01
sabdfl thanks all! 16:01
jcastro thanks everyone for participating 16:01
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
jcastro and we'll see you next time 16:01
jcastro thanks sabdfl! 16:01
jcastro if you're a sysadmin and are looking for more IRC workshops, check out our juju charm school session next friday! https://juju.ubuntu.com/CharmSchool 16:01
ali1234 jcastro: will that explain to me what juju is and why i would want to use it? 16:13
jcastro that session is for writing juju charms 16:13
jcastro let me get you more general info 16:13
ali1234 i just read the FAQ 16:13
ali1234 it didn't answer either of my questions :( 16:14
jcastro what questions do you have? 16:14
ali1234 what is juju and why would i want to use it? 16:14
jcastro juju is a deployment tool for the cloud 16:14
jcastro so if let's say you want to deploy a hadoop cluster 16:15
ali1234 ideally i would like it explained without using any of the follwng words: sevice, deployment, orchestration, cloud 16:15
jcastro it's like apt-get, but for a cloud instead of one machine 16:15
jcastro ok 16:15
jcastro so let's say you want to install wordpress. 16:15
jcastro you do 16:15
jcastro juju bootstrap 16:15
jcastro juju deploy wordpress 16:16
jcastro juju deploy mysql 16:16
jcastro juju add-relation wordpress mysql (this configures each one to the other) 16:16
jcastro then juju expost wordpress 16:16
jcastro er, sorry 16:16
jcastro juju expose wordpress 16:16
jcastro to open it to the world, and that's it 16:16
ali1234 doesn't apt-get already do the majority of that stuff? 16:17
jcastro no 16:17
ali1234 not that i ever installed wordpress 16:17
jcastro it install it, but the confiuguration and all that you still have to do 16:17
ali1234 but eg. phpmyadmin - apt-get install it, and it works 16:17
jcastro plus, apt does it per machine 16:17
jcastro now, let's say I need to scale out 16:17
jcastro I can do 16:17
jcastro juju deploy haproxy 16:17
jcastro juju add-relation wordpress haproxy 16:18
jcastro and then just 16:18
jcastro juju add-unity wordpress 16:18
jcastro ugh, sorry, typo, juju add-unit wordpress 16:18
jcastro and I will have a load balanced wordpress install 16:18
jcastro if I do another juju add-unit wordpress I have three instances now 16:18
stefano-palazzo that's the last straw. I have to try it now. 16:19
ali1234 where do the "units" come from? 16:19
jcastro whatever you have 16:19
jcastro EC2, openstack, bare metal. 16:19
ali1234 (don't say "the cloud") 16:19
jcastro yes, "the cloud" 16:19
ali1234 ok, but does it set them up for me or what? 16:19
jcastro for ec2 you need to put your AWS credentials in a file 16:20
ali1234 or do they have to be preexisting virtual machines that i have access to? 16:20
jcastro and it just spins up instances 16:20
ali1234 ok, that's neat 16:20
jcastro for openstack it's a bit complicated 16:20
jcastro you use juju to deploy openstack on bare metal and then juju again to put stuff on top of that 16:20
jcastro but it's not so bad, an experienced sysadmin can probably do that in 2-3 hours. 16:20
jcastro and for bare metal you just need an orchestra server 16:21
jcastro it will go, turn on a machine, install the OS on it, and then whatever it needs depending on the service you deployed. 16:21
ali1234 so a "charm" is the script that makes juju know how to deal with an app like wordpress? 16:21
jcastro right 16:21
ali1234 like a deb control file? 16:21
jcastro it's basically the same script a sysadmin might have laying around to "deploy mediawiki" or whatever they deploy a bunch of times 16:22
jcastro but yeah, a control file might be a good description too 16:22
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
ali1234 jcastro: thanks :) 16:24
jcastro wait 16:24
jcastro the best part 16:24
jcastro let's say after a while you have like, 4 mysql's running 16:24
jcastro and you want phpmyadmin 16:24
jcastro you can just 16:24
jcastro juju deploy phpmyadmin 16:25
jcastro juju add-relation phpmyadmin mysql 16:25
jcastro and then the mysql machines will get phpmyadmin 16:25
jcastro done, and done. 16:25
jcastro or, deploy and add nagios 16:25
ali1234 but only if someone writes a charm that does that... 16:25
jcastro (note, I don't think we have a charm for phpmyadmin) 16:25
jcastro yeah but we already have a bunch 16:26
ali1234 i can't see one on the list 16:26
jcastro http://charms.kapilt.com/charms 16:26
jcastro this is what we have so far 16:26
jcastro but we're getting there! 16:26
fanys hi everybody ! 16:43
vibhav hi guys 17:01
=== negronjl_mobile is now known as negronjl
=== starcraft is now known as starcraftman

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
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8 comments
 
Thanks for the post.BTW why is mark sabdfl?
 
Hmm... posting this big makes it hard to see others on g+ Android app. Would be nice if it would crop at some point.
 
Attempting to make this a tad easier to read by adding boldface to his answers.

------


srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/23/#ubuntu-classroom.txt
raja what 13:00
raja help 13:02
jcastro test 14:29
jcastro tap tap 14:59
jcastro 1 minute left 14:59
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ask Mark! - Current Session: Ask Mark on #ubuntu-classroom - Instructors: sabdfl
jcastro Ok everyone 15:00
jcastro Mark is on his way 15:00
jcastro welcome to Ask Mark! 15:00
sabdfl hello hello 15:01
jcastro here is the intro piece: http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/12842730458/ask-mark-wednesday-23-november-1500utc 15:01
jcastro this is how this will work 15:01
jcastro in #ubuntu-classroom-chat you can ask questions 15:01
jcastro you need to preface it with the word QUESTION: 15:01
jcastro for example ... 15:01
"jcastro QUESTION: Mark, what is with that moustache? 15:01"
sabdfl it's for charity! 15:01
jcastro and then the bot will pick it up and pass it along 15:01
"jcastro so without further delay, good morning sabdfl! 15:01"
sabdfl and a very generous donor, Callum MacDonald, stepped up hugely 15:02"
sabdfl so i will grow it even bigger 15:02
sabdfl if you appreciate having a laugh at the sad state of my face, please donate generously too 15:02"
sabdfl and i will match your donation 15:02
jcastro Where can people donate? 15:02
sabdfl http://mobro.co/smonaut 15:03
sabdfl of course 15:03
sabdfl NEXT! 15:03
ClassBot candt_ asked: I see Ubuntu is retailing in China and Portugal (great!) What release? LTS? 15:03
sabdfl varies, depending on the manufacturer 15:03"
sabdfl we have adopted a wicked new plan for LTS updates though 15:03
sabdfl so if a machine is certified with a non-LTS release, you will still be able to run it with the LTS userspace 15:03"
sabdfl next! 15:04
ClassBot AlanBell asked: Do you really think you can compete with iOS and Android on TV/Tablet/Phone? 15:04
sabdfl with your help, we have a chance 15:04"
sabdfl design is really important, as is our ability to deliver a platform that is perceived to be more open 15:04"
sabdfl i think this is vital, or client-side linux will ultimately stay limited to, shall we say, the technologically blessed 15:05"
sabdfl next! 15:05
"ClassBot AlanBell asked: If I wanted to contribute to TV/Tablet/phone, what's the best thing I can do in the community? 15:05"
sabdfl participate on the relevant mailing lists 15:05
sabdfl participate when the sdk efforts begin, around QML and HTML5 15:05"
sabdfl help with unity-3d and -2d, which will feature 15:05"
sabdfl next! 15:05
ClassBot dmj726 asked: What do you think of having an unmodified version of Software Center as a requirement for branding something as an Ubuntu Phone? This way if a company could only brand their device as an Ubuntu Phone if it kept Software Center (with access to the Ubuntu repositories and the ability to add additional software sources). Otherwise it would be based on Ubuntu but not a branded Ubuntu Phone. 15:06
sabdfl yes, i think the android experience has taught everyone about the risks of fragmentation 15:06"
sabdfl i hope we can improve somewhat on that position 15:06
sabdfl next! 15:06
"ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: What do you think of people , chastising everything Ubuntu including its users by some who consider themselves Elite, will 12.04 put an end to this (marginally)? 15:06"
sabdfl there are of course valid criticisms 15:08
sabdfl and we can't be too thin-skinned about opinions 15:08
sabdfl that said, some of the most passionate complaints are from users in two bugs, with directly opposite desires 15:09"
sabdfl bug (a) says an action should go left, bug (b) says it should go right 15:09"
sabdfl and some of the voices in each bug are unreasonably insistent on their position 15:09
sabdfl the design team has to resolve those, and also has to put us ahead of the curve 15:09"
sabdfl we won't compete if we constantly wait for ideas to be validated elsewhere 15:10
sabdfl i'm pretty proud of our record of innovatoin 15:10
sabdfl tion, even 15:10"
sabdfl we had U1 before iCloud, or the Windows equivalents 15:10"
sabdfl we introduced overlay scrollbars first 15:10
sabdfl we designed Unity with a single icon left launcher, and full screen search, before anybody else 15:10"
sabdfl Apple's launchpad, and Gnome Shell, all came later 15:11"
sabdfl change will always make people pissy 15:11
sabdfl but i think, if we voxed you all in the channel, you would say you want the platform of the future, not one from the past 15:11"
sabdfl so that's what we're working on 15:11
sabdfl and we do it with integrity, and care 15:11"
sabdfl next! 15:11
"ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: When will Ubuntu reach the Indian shore in the form of hardware pre installed with Ubuntu like its in Africa , Portugal? 15:11"
sabdfl hmmm... i think it's already pre-installed in india, from some manufacturers 15:12"
sabdfl dell, lenovo, and some local brands iirc 15:12"
sabdfl next! 15:12
"jcastro this one might be too localized, but giving it a shot: 15:12"
"ClassBot Andy80 asked: I've seen that the Asus 1215P with Ubuntu preinstalled is also available in Italy from many vendors (Mediaworld, Amazon.it, e-Price ecc...) why no news about it? No advertisement ecc... is it just experimental? Thanks 15:12"
sabdfl I tihnk it's just becoming more normal. Best thing you can do is buy one and blog it! 15:13
sabdfl next 15:13
"ClassBot conscioususer asked: Considering how large of a step Unity was, and the fact that it still needs polish on the desktop alone, isn't availability of resources a concern for the phone/tv/etc plans? 15:13"
sabdfl sure it is. all help gratefully accepted :-) 15:13
sabdfl there is a steady flow of contributions, which is fantastic 15:14"
sabdfl there's lots we would like to fix, but must focus on the core 15:14"
sabdfl it's a fun project to hack on, and millions get to enjoy the result 15:14"
sabdfl plus, you get OMG-love 15:14"
sabdfl we're growing the Unity team internally, but the perfectionism of a community process cannot be beaten 15:15"
sabdfl so the more, the merrier 15:15"
sabdfl next! 15:15
"ClassBot dmj726 asked: Do you see integration and sharing between TVs, phones, tablets, and PCs as being critical to the success of Ubuntu on mobile devices? 15:15"
sabdfl yes! 15:15
sabdfl next 15:15
ClassBot candt_ asked: Any plans to increase 'marketing to the community' (spin?) to help heal some GUI-shock 'wounds'? 15:15
sabdfl our community doesn't want spin, they want to help 15:15"
sabdfl and there are lots of effective ways for folk to participate and help 15:16
sabdfl i see a lot more people willing to say 'hold on, stop the bitching, i love unity, and i want it to succeed' 15:16"
sabdfl and that's what will make a success of it 15:16
sabdfl next! 15:16
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: You seem to don't care much about what opinions others form of you(as I have estimated by reading and hearing you) but why do you think people Ignore the Hard work done by You/Ubuntu for the betterment of FOSS? 15:16
sabdfl why do you think i am subscribed to every comment on every bug on unity, if you don't think i care much about what people report, or comment? 15:17"
sabdfl it takes up a lot of my day, this approach to not caring ;-) 15:17"
sabdfl it's easy to say someone doesn't care about everyone, if they disagree with you 15:17"
sabdfl it's harder if you first acknowledge that they care as much about you as about 19 million other users 15:18
sabdfl who have needs and rights too 15:18
sabdfl my first responsibility is to ubuntu users 15:18
sabdfl the ubuntu spirit is not about demanding that someone else make things the way you want them, is it 15:18"
sabdfl as our community has become more high profile, it's more tempting for people to show up and make demands 15:18"
sabdfl we have no need ot listen to them 15:18
sabdfl none whatsoever 15:19
sabdfl we need to strengthen the bonds between those of us who actually work on the project every day 15:19
sabdfl trust people to lead in their part of the project 15:19
sabdfl i trust the security team to make serious judgement calls, every single day 15:19"
sabdfl i don't need to second-guess them 15:19
sabdfl i don't expect them to be perfect 15:19
sabdfl but i know that getting too many opinions in there will only make it worse 15:20
sabdfl similarly, on design and engineering, as a community we need to ask whether we have confidence in the process by which responsibility is allocated 15:20"
sabdfl then trust those to whom it is allocated 15:20
sabdfl in other communities, it's OK to second-guess any decision by any member 15:20"
sabdfl that results in a total inability to take any serious decision in less than 5 years 15:21
sabdfl and we will NOT compete with android like that 15:21
sabdfl so, here's the deal: join, commit, contribute, excel, and you can expect to be trusted with serious parts of ubuntu 15:21"
sabdfl and you can expect that i will defend you from the chorus of naysayers, beggars and critics 15:21"
sabdfl next! 15:21
"ClassBot koolhead11 asked: Mark, when can we have visible Ubuntu certification/Training program happening 2 take on with other enterprise Linux Vendors, as people need workforce and assurance before hiring and adopting something at enterprise level 15:21"
sabdfl we setup a training program very early 15:22
sabdfl but there was little demand 15:22
sabdfl and it was too thinly spread around the world 15:22
sabdfl first, we need to see substantial deployments 15:22"
sabdfl then the demand will be there 15:22
sabdfl the good news is, enterprise adoption of ubuntu is growing steadily 15:22"
sabdfl people are starting to trust us, we have delivered like clockwork for seven years 15:23"
sabdfl help promote large scale corporate deployments, and that will create demand for training 15:23"
sabdfl if you have an urgent need, we can probably create something custom 15:23"
sabdfl next! 15:23
"ClassBot jussi asked: Mark, How involved are OEMs with canonical at this time in the direction of the Ubuntu phone, TV and tablet offerings? 15:23"
sabdfl btw, happy thanksgiving to all you yanks, tomorrow 15:23"
sabdfl jussi, it's easy for them to express interest at this stage, the test will be once we actually have product in hand 15:24"
sabdfl so for now, it's all very encouraging 15:24"
sabdfl but then, it would be :-) 15:24"
sabdfl next! 15:24
ClassBot txwikinger asked: How do you think can entrepreneurs build a business model around Ubuntu in a way that it is mutually beneficial for Ubuntu and the startup? 15:24
sabdfl ensure that production pieces of your ubuntu deployments are covered by Ubuntu Advantage 15:25
sabdfl and that's good enough for me 15:25
sabdfl next! 15:25
ClassBot dmj726 asked: Do you see Ubuntu TV as being mainly a new platform for consuming content or do you think that making new kinds of collaboration possible should be a key part of Ubuntu TV? An example might be a group get together with their tablets and edit video on their devices with the TV as a shared screen for showing progress and enabling discussion? 15:25
sabdfl the relationship between the shared screen (tv) and the personal screen (phone, tablet, pc) is v interestng, yes 15:26"
sabdfl next! 15:26
"ClassBot oly_ asked: are there plans to unify apps on these devices, something like i am viewing a youtube video on my phone can i not just move the output to my tv or to a desktop computer i have often wondered why i can not move whats on my screen to another display in a simple manner 15:26"
sabdfl good thinking gianlucadv, that sounds worth exploring further 15:26"
sabdfl next! 15:26
"ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: Many a people have taken aversion on you saying to compete with Android with Ubuntu (both being open source siblings), Do you consider ios and other platforms Inferior(I feel they are ;-))? 15:27"
sabdfl they are superior in some ways. they are less empowering, but we should recognise great work wherever it happens. smugness doesn't win friends or prizes. 15:27"
sabdfl next! 15:27
"ClassBot Pendulum asked: how do you see Ubuntu competing in the mobile device world when voice recognition on Linux is pretty much non-existant, but voice recognition on mobile phones is becoming a feature users want more and more? 15:27"
sabdfl voice recognition is more a cloud service than a device feature 15:28
sabdfl next! 15:28
"ClassBot Andy80 asked: taking in consideration all the improvements incoming to Qt (with the release of Qt5), since we could have the same (or even better) effetcs in QML than we have now in Unity-3D, all of this maintaining the compatibility with non-3D computers, don't you think that keep developing two versions of Unity is a ""waste"" of resources? Would not be better to concentrate the effort just on the QML/Qt version of Unity? 15:28"
sabdfl could be, andy. the unity-3d team need to show that it's worth keeping both versions in play, and the -2d team need to show they can deliver the slick vision we have for unity 15:28"
sabdfl think of it as a bit of a race. contribute where you think you can make the biggest impact 15:29
sabdfl next! 15:29
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: There is this general feeling in people that Canonical doesn't care about Ubuntu's official derivatives(which I find to be a misnomer as I am myself using Kubuntu 11.10 and loving it)? 15:29
sabdfl we cannot care about everything 15:29
sabdfl we devote quite alot to make the derivatives possible, but it's up to each community to step up and do the work they say they care about 15:29"
sabdfl next! 15:29
"jcastro (out of questions, waiting on the queue) 15:30"
sabdfl phew! 15:30
ClassBot akshatj_ asked: Android or iOS? 15:30
sabdfl neither, but i plan to try recent versions of both, soon 15:31"
sabdfl it's time for me to join the smartphone era 15:32
sabdfl next! 15:32
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: Your reaction on the latest thrashing of Micro$oft by Barnes & Noble against their way of using litigation instead of Innovations philosophy? 15:32
sabdfl the biggest mistake microsoft made was to decide that patents would be an effective defence against new competitors 15:33
sabdfl because that stops you from really innovating yourself 15:33
sabdfl so Microsoft wasted most of a decade, thinking they could use patents to defend the castle. 15:33"
sabdfl Meanwhile, others were innovating for real. 15:33"
sabdfl The whole patent system is a sham, unfortunately. 15:34"
sabdfl Patent authorities cannot realistically do their job; it 15:34
sabdfl it's an impossible job to do. 15:34
sabdfl and the patent system has slowly been twisted to do the exact opposite of its PR 15:34
sabdfl it's not, as many think, a system to defend the little inventor against the big bad corporate. 15:35"
sabdfl Instead, it's a system to ensure the big bad corporate doesn't get any scary new competition. 15:35"
sabdfl Patents were invented to encourage inventors to publish their trade secrets, because society would benefit from the disclosure. 15:35"
sabdfl But we now allow patents on things you could never keep secret in the first place, like software and business methods and medicines. 15:36"
sabdfl That's insanity. Innovation happens because people solve problems, not because they might get a monopoly on it. 15:36"
sabdfl The reason this is not being changed is simple: legislation evolves to suit those who can influence legislators. And large patent holders tend to be influential in that regard. 15:37
sabdfl next! 15:37
"ClassBot dmj726 asked: What are some examples of design either in the Ubuntu community, apps, or in general that have inspired you? 15:37"
sabdfl the novacut folks have some really interesting ideas 15:37
sabdfl i like a lot of the elementary work, too 15:37"
sabdfl the web is really the place we should look to, and games 15:38"
sabdfl those are both fast-moving, agile, competitive, and unconstrained 15:38"
sabdfl next! 15:38
ClassBot gianlucadv asked: Recently we have seen some applications migrated from python to vala. Do you think that this trend is going to continue or that python will still be the preferred language for Ubuntu-sanctioned programs? 15:38
sabdfl vala is ok. Go is the future. 15:38
sabdfl next! 15:38
"ClassBot oly_ asked: will ubuntu.developer.com develop to be usefull for existing developers quickly looks awesome but it does not seem useful if you already have applications, or are there plans to move an existing project into quickly to simplyfy development 15:38"
jcastro (ed: he means developer.ubuntu.com) 15:39
sabdfl no, with most frameworks, if you start out doing your own thing, it's better to keep doing that 15:39"
sabdfl quickly is for the new guy who wants to get started, erm, quickly :-) 15:39"
sabdfl i would encourage you just to focus on making your apps beautiful, directed, clear, purposeful 15:40"
sabdfl and use whatever toolkit you think is effective and interesting 15:40
sabdfl next! 15:40
"ClassBot brousch asked: I love Ubuntu, but prefer Gnome Shell to Unity. Are you committed to keeping Gnome Shell supported and easy to install in Ubuntu going forward? 15:40"
sabdfl depends how easy the Shell folks make that to achieve 15:40
sabdfl i'm not committed if they decide to make it very difficult, or impossible, or to continue to say things like 'Ubuntu's overlay scrollbars are not compatible with upstream Gnome' ;-) 15:41"
sabdfl we worked hard to influence and improve the design of Shell, but it turned out the best way to achieve that was to lead, so we did, and will continue to do so 15:41"
sabdfl next! 15:41
ClassBot surgemcgee asked: Is there plans to better Compiz or abondon it as the Unity OpenGL back-end? It seems disconnected and buggy. 15:41
sabdfl compiz needs work, definitely 15:41"
sabdfl but it has by far the best rendering pipeline, which lets us deliver fullscreen effects over video, for example 15:42"
sabdfl it will improve, help gratefully accepted 15:42"
sabdfl next! 15:42
"ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: You busted the ""Power Users don't like Unity myth"" in the 12.04 UDS , how much easier will it be for customizations in 12.04 natively unlike 11.10? 15:42"
sabdfl we will have time to offer up some settings for unity in 12.04 15:42
sabdfl there's a list of things we're keen to see 15:43
sabdfl contributions of code to put those in place would be accepted 15:43
sabdfl but there will always be people who are upset because they cannot make the launcher bright pink 15:43
sabdfl tough 15:43
sabdfl next! 15:43
ClassBot blumojo_ asked: What is Unity's next step? 15:43
sabdfl 12.04 LTS needs to be lovely on the desktop, and work on the new form factors will kick off 15:44"
sabdfl next! 15:44
"ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: Is there anything to be looked forward in the ""codecs may be illegal in your country"" as Ubuntu aims for world domination. 15:44"
sabdfl can't do much about the law in your country. i think the codec issue will fade as google pushes for open content 15:44
sabdfl next! 15:44
"ClassBot gianlucadv asked: in the future, will launchpad support git? 15:44"
sabdfl the future is a very big place 15:45
sabdfl next! 15:45
jcastro (waiting on questions) 15:45
ClassBot kamilnadeem asked: Do you intend on keeping the Mustache(In my opinion it looks awesome on you)? 15:46
sabdfl if you guys haven't had the pleasure yet, i highly commend jorge's charm school to you :-) 15:46"
sabdfl hell no, this rat on my face is torture, i'm earning those donations! 15:46"
sabdfl next 15:46
ClassBot vibhav asked: Why is the server version of Ubuntu one closed source? 15:47
sabdfl server of u1 is closed source because we thought our chances of long term survival otherwise were nil. if you know better, go for it! 15:47"
sabdfl next 15:47
ClassBot daubers asked: Any chance of further LDAP integration in Ubuntu and more ease of use of setting it up? 15:48
ClassBot surgemcgee asked: Is there plans for a better Terminal app. i.e. Tilda or Guake? 15:49
"jcastro bah sorry, 2 for one! 15:49"
jcastro (10 minutes left in the session) 15:50
ClassBot There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. 15:50
sabdfl daubers, hmmm... i'm not sure on the ldap front 15:51"
sabdfl we're going to do a business desktop remix, because lots of people want a remix without the social bits, and with stuff we wouldn't put in the main ubuntu, like flash and pdf-reader 15:51"
sabdfl that sounds like a candidate for ldap work 15:52
sabdfl but 15:52
sabdfl remixes are just package selections, there will be no secret sauce 15:52"
sabdfl surgemcgee__, i would love to see guake integrated into the dash, drop them a note and see if they are interested! 15:52"
sabdfl next 15:52
ClassBot brousch asked: Canonical has a ton of good Python programmers and is using it heavily. Who do you think has more Python code in use - Canonical or Google? 15:52
sabdfl Gooooooooogle 15:53
sabdfl i think they have a lot of everything :-) 15:53
sabdfl next! 15:53
"ClassBot dscassel asked: At UDS-O you said you would work to make the case for Project Harmony to the community. Do you feel you've done that, or will you be saying more about it? And as a spokesperson for Ubuntu, what would you suggest I say to those in the community who consider Harmony harmful? 15:53"
sabdfl point out that, today, we have hundreds of custom agreements, few of which have been through any sort of review 15:53"
sabdfl Harmony is like the Creative Commons, you may not agree with all the options, but it's been widely debated, reviewed, audited and approved 15:54"
sabdfl pint out that iOS and android built huge developer ecosystems in a few years, while the GPL is still limited 15:54"
sabdfl ask them when they will be willing to consider whether free software is enough, or whether they must keep adding impossible constraints on companies that are interested in trying it 15:55"
sabdfl next! 15:55
ClassBot candt_ asked: have you noticed that Ubuntu has dropped in the Distrowatch click ratings? (It breaks my heart to see...) 15:55
"jcastro (Host note: distrowatch doesn't measure usage of distros, just clicks on hits to their distribution pages on their site.) - aka. not a metric. :) 15:55"
ClassBot There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. 15:55
sabdfl kudos to mint for the jump in ratings, i'm glad ubuntu has great derivatives, and i'm confidence unity will remain the #1 desktop environment for years to come 15:55"
sabdfl next! 15:56
ClassBot gianlucadv asked: when will be able to buy a table with Ubuntu preinstalled? 15:56
jcastro I think he means tablet. 15:56
"jcastro but who knows, tables! 15:56"
sabdfl :-) 15:56
sabdfl gianlucadv, you'll see developer previews first, and there will be opportunities to help 15:56"
sabdfl next 15:57
ClassBot vibhav asked: majority (70% to 80%) of people in Ubuntu community are still under the impression that Ubuntu is a Windows alternative; just judging from the GUI and doing everything from the GUI; they dont even know the difference between Linux and Ubuntu. What do you plan to do to resolve that? 15:57
sabdfl i don't know the difference between fuel diesel and jet-A1, but i enjoy cars and planes 15:57"
sabdfl we can't expect to succeed, if we define success as making people care about the same things we do 15:57"
sabdfl some people are passionate about lichens 15:58
sabdfl they know a lot more about lichens than i do 15:58
sabdfl i hope they aren't offended if I enjoy walking through mountains with beautiful lichen patterns 15:58
sabdfl and don't want to know the difference between 'em all 15:58
sabdfl we should celebrate users of free software, not be grumpy if they don't decide to grow a beard and learn the free software song 15:59"
sabdfl last one! 15:59
ClassBot cyrildz asked: anything about a new icon theme for Precise ? the actual icon-theme look very out ofplace with the modern look of Unity 15:59
sabdfl yes, i agree, we need a new icon theme 16:00"
sabdfl we have agreed to do a proper study on iconography, with the university of reading 16:00"
ClassBot Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/23/%23ubuntu-classroom.html 16:00
sabdfl and lay out a roadmap for a new icon set, which we will welcome participation 16:00"
sabdfl phew 16:01
jcastro ok that's all we have for today 16:01
sabdfl thanks all! 16:01
jcastro thanks everyone for participating 16:01
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
jcastro and we'll see you next time 16:01
jcastro thanks sabdfl! 16:01
"jcastro if you're a sysadmin and are looking for more IRC workshops, check out our juju charm school session next friday! https://juju.ubuntu.com/CharmSchool" 16:01
ali1234 jcastro: will that explain to me what juju is and why i would want to use it? 16:13
jcastro that session is for writing juju charms 16:13
jcastro let me get you more general info 16:13
ali1234 i just read the FAQ 16:13
ali1234 it didn't answer either of my questions :( 16:14
jcastro what questions do you have? 16:14
ali1234 what is juju and why would i want to use it? 16:14
jcastro juju is a deployment tool for the cloud 16:14
jcastro so if let's say you want to deploy a hadoop cluster 16:15
"ali1234 ideally i would like it explained without using any of the follwng words: sevice, deployment, orchestration, cloud 16:15"
"jcastro it's like apt-get, but for a cloud instead of one machine 16:15"
jcastro ok 16:15
jcastro so let's say you want to install wordpress. 16:15
jcastro you do 16:15
jcastro juju bootstrap 16:15
jcastro juju deploy wordpress 16:16
jcastro juju deploy mysql 16:16
jcastro juju add-relation wordpress mysql (this configures each one to the other) 16:16
jcastro then juju expost wordpress 16:16
"jcastro er, sorry 16:16"
jcastro juju expose wordpress 16:16
"jcastro to open it to the world, and that's it 16:16"
ali1234 doesn't apt-get already do the majority of that stuff? 16:17
jcastro no 16:17
ali1234 not that i ever installed wordpress 16:17
"jcastro it install it, but the confiuguration and all that you still have to do 16:17"
"ali1234 but eg. phpmyadmin - apt-get install it, and it works 16:17"
"jcastro plus, apt does it per machine 16:17"
"jcastro now, let's say I need to scale out 16:17"
jcastro I can do 16:17
jcastro juju deploy haproxy 16:17
jcastro juju add-relation wordpress haproxy 16:18
jcastro and then just 16:18
jcastro juju add-unity wordpress 16:18
"jcastro ugh, sorry, typo, juju add-unit wordpress 16:18"
jcastro and I will have a load balanced wordpress install 16:18
jcastro if I do another juju add-unit wordpress I have three instances now 16:18
stefano-palazzo that's the last straw. I have to try it now. 16:19
"ali1234 where do the ""units"" come from? 16:19"
jcastro whatever you have 16:19
"jcastro EC2, openstack, bare metal. 16:19"
"ali1234 (don't say ""the cloud"") 16:19"
"jcastro yes, ""the cloud"" 16:19"
"ali1234 ok, but does it set them up for me or what? 16:19"
jcastro for ec2 you need to put your AWS credentials in a file 16:20
ali1234 or do they have to be preexisting virtual machines that i have access to? 16:20
jcastro and it just spins up instances 16:20
"ali1234 ok, that's neat 16:20"
jcastro for openstack it's a bit complicated 16:20
jcastro you use juju to deploy openstack on bare metal and then juju again to put stuff on top of that 16:20
"jcastro but it's not so bad, an experienced sysadmin can probably do that in 2-3 hours. 16:20"
jcastro and for bare metal you just need an orchestra server 16:21
"jcastro it will go, turn on a machine, install the OS on it, and then whatever it needs depending on the service you deployed. 16:21"
"ali1234 so a ""charm"" is the script that makes juju know how to deal with an app like wordpress? 16:21"
jcastro right 16:21
ali1234 like a deb control file? 16:21
"jcastro it's basically the same script a sysadmin might have laying around to ""deploy mediawiki"" or whatever they deploy a bunch of times 16:22"
"jcastro but yeah, a control file might be a good description too 16:22"
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
ali1234 jcastro: thanks :) 16:24
jcastro wait 16:24
jcastro the best part 16:24
"jcastro let's say after a while you have like, 4 mysql's running 16:24"
jcastro and you want phpmyadmin 16:24
jcastro you can just 16:24
jcastro juju deploy phpmyadmin 16:25
jcastro juju add-relation phpmyadmin mysql 16:25
jcastro and then the mysql machines will get phpmyadmin 16:25
"jcastro done, and done. 16:25"
"jcastro or, deploy and add nagios 16:25"
ali1234 but only if someone writes a charm that does that... 16:25
"jcastro (note, I don't think we have a charm for phpmyadmin) 16:25"
jcastro yeah but we already have a bunch 16:26
ali1234 i can't see one on the list 16:26
jcastro http://charms.kapilt.com/charms 16:26
jcastro this is what we have so far 16:26
jcastro but we're getting there! 16:26
fanys hi everybody ! 16:43
vibhav hi guys 17:01
=== negronjl_mobile is now known as negronjl
=== starcraft is now known as starcraftman
 
"sabdfl pint out that iOS and android built huge developer ecosystems in a few years, while the GPL is still limited 15:54"
"sabdfl design is really important, as is our ability to deliver a platform that is perceived to be more open 15:04"

There are several big mistakes in this and the attitude is fatal to software freedom and Canonical. The first is to consider the GPL community limited or the iOS and Android "ecosystems" to be more economically successful. The second is to ignore the reasons for Android and iOS use and the implications for software freedom and user/developer welfare in the long run. Perception of freedom is not good enough for long term success. Without real freedom, Ubuntu will be crushed along with the rest of us by big publishers and the oppressive society they seek to create.

iOS and Android are advertised and promoted by incumbent monopolies because they give those monopolists power over users by stripping the freedom out of free software, and this leads to ruin. People use Android and iOS because big publishers allowed their music on iPod at the expense of user freedom and telcos allowed Android and iOS onto their phones. Both of those events mask underlying injustices of broadcast based cultural control and spectrum ownership problems that should not exist. It is a further crime that those monopolists have used their position to exert control over a portion of the free software community and demanded that they betray users and themselves. The long run proof of this is not seen in the diversity of Apps that recycle software that's old hat in the free software world, it's that most App developers don't reap the riches promised by big publishers and telco. There have been a few run away successes but most App developers are no more prosperous than they might be making the world a better place with free software. To accept the success of iOS and Andorid app developers is to accept the entire non free software lie - that by colluding with software owners to screw users, developers will make themselves rich. Only a few software owners get rich with non free software because screwing people in a might makes right world leads us to what Microsoft has delivered over the last 30 years.
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