Lol, most of my friends who use Facebook don't really go on YouTube too much except for watching some cat videos.
I believe most people on Google+ doesn't go onto YouTube as much either, thus making itself a working social network as it is.
Before the integration, many posts about a YouTube video are NOT posted to YouTube, but rather shared under Google+, making Google+ clearly a separate platform.
The problem is, there are more than 1 billion people that use YouTube, and less than 300 million people active out of 540 million "members" of Google+.
Now obviously my friend on Facebook wouldn't want her every comment about a YouTube video to be shown on YouTube when she's only commenting on Facebook. This could be applied to Google+. Posts on Google+ belong to Google+, not YouTube.What Google did wrong
The reason why YouTube is so popular is because it's protected by the 1st Amendment: Protects freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of the press, as well as the right to assemble, right to protest, and petition the government. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution
It's not that we can say whatever we want without a consequence (Uploaders COULD block certain users in the old system, which means this update was unnecessary), but it's that we can say what we want without any restriction. (Notice Consequences
What this update brought wasn't to bring consequences upon bad users, but rather to apply restriction step by step in order to overlap the freedom of speech.
It might sound dramatic, but hey, did you know Hitler didn't start out becoming a big leader in one day? If you study Psychology, you'll understand foot-in-the-door and how the technique can be applied here.
To put it simply, Google is slowly stripping away your right to freedom of speech. Gradually, it'll strip away your right to freedom of choice as well (in order to post a video, you'll have to do this, and that, and etc.).
While you may call others "idiots" for disagreeing with you, I say you're just agreeing with Google to prohibit freedom of speech, freedom to protest, and freedom to express oneself.About your opinion
:But here's the thing: His complaints make 100% perfect sense to YouTube fans, and zero sense to Google+ fans
- So basically what this integration does is to cause conflicts within the community. Isn't there enough war in Afghanistan right now? We don't need more war here. Also, there are at least 3 times more YouTube users than there are Google+, just to remind.The reason is that YouTube-centric people haven't experienced how well Google+ troll- and spam-filtering works yet
- So you're implying YouTube people are either: idiots, and/or trolls. That's a nice message to promote Google+.As an example, I'm personally in about 2.8 million circles and post publicly every day. Yet I encounter maybe one troll a week in my comments. (The spammers are mostly taken care of by user flagging, so I don't see them much.)
- I could say the same for YouTube comments. Comments are user-moderated, meaning uploaders don't have to do much. People pretty much know what's bad and what's not. Meaning this integration is another pointless update.This is unimaginable with the old YouTube system
- That is a pretty false claim, as pointed above: comments are user-moderated with the super old and effective "flag as spam" button. I don't get how you could have easily ignored that.I will demonstrate the power of Google+ comments by asking you to find the personal attacks, trolling, spamming, novels, ASCII crap and all the rest in the comment thread below this post/comment. Do you see it? No, you don't. That's the power of the Google+ commenting system
- In fact, there was none of that in the old comment system as well, so your statement is invalid.The comment thread you'll see below my post is the quality you can expect in the future after the new system has been in effect over time
- That's rather a subjective claim. Did you know Imgur, a small image sharer site, has a better and easy to navigate comment system? I can't possibly make senses of all the comments here without having to constantly scrolling up and down rereading every post. In fact, Google+ comment system is extremely old and cluttered. It's almost identical as a ripped off version of Skype or Yahoo chat, which are proven to only be good for group chatting, and not public posting.1. It doesn't matter if people upload books or movie scripts. It has zero effect on anything. These will sink to the bottom and be ignored, and eventually the trolls will stop bothering. (You can do this on Google+, too, but nobody bothers anymore
- It does have effect. It goes to show how much people hate this new system. Again, freedom of speech and expression.2. Google has been very good at knocking down accounts that quickly pop up for trolling and spamming. This is a non-issue on Google+, and will become a non-issue on YouTube as the system has its effect over time. The culture of ASCII swastikas and penises emerged out of the old YouTube commenting system. I have never, ever seen these on Google+ because the tools and the use of those tools isolates these trolls and renders them completely unable to have an impact
- In fact, I've seen many well-made ASCII art in the old comment system. I personally think they are pretty cool.3. Again, the horrible trollish comments are punished, not promoted in the Google+ system. People will flag and block and vote them down -- again, over time. Your concern is that ugly comments rise to the top -- the opposite will happen over time. Google+ comments is the cure for this problem, not the source. (And you should block every user who does any kind of personal attack -- you'll never see them again.)
- Again, this has worked back in the old system. Therefore, this update has once more been proven to be pointless and unnecessary. Not to mention, you CAN'T vote down any comment. You could in the old system, not anymore in the new system, because there is only +1. That would make your statement incorrect.4. External links are governed under the same system. Abusers will be flagged, blocked, isolated and eventually their accounts deleted. Again, you don't see this stuff happening much on Google+, and eventually you won't see if on YouTube, either
- Why do you keep mentioning this when the old system just works as well as everything you've listed? That's what the "Flag as spam" is for. That's what the "Vote down" button was for. Now you can't downvote a comment anymore, and flagging comments will only make it invisible only to you, not others. You just included a major false information and accusation. (Ability to downvote comment = False information, Old system doesn't work = accusation).YouTube has the MOST spam and trolls. Google+ has the LEAST. It's not because Google+ people are better -- they're not. It's because the commenting system is better
- Nope. Google+ has the least because its user base count sucks ass compared to YouTube. Think about the ratio again... 300mil:1bil... also, think in term of Microsoft vs. Apple. Why do you think there are so much more virus on PC than an Apple computer? Of course because PC is much more popular, not because it's easier to create a virus. There are still viruses on an Apple machine. It's just that there are rather less because Apple is much less popular than a Microsoft computer.
That means that if there are less trolls on Google+, it's either Google+ is an effective system, or it COULD also mean that Google+ doesn't have the popularity it claims... (which I believe the latter is true).YouTube commenting is now even better than Google+ for all these issues. On YouTube, better comments rise to the top and trollish votes can be voted down
- Again, you keep saying that comments can be voted down, but I've yet to see comments been voted down, ever... if you vote down a comment, try refreshing the page. Your downvote will disappear into thin air. Please don't put false information please. Don't try to make Google+ look positive when it's not.The YouTubers who embrace the new system, and actively block trolls, will eventually find their comments with ZERO TROLLS
- This is the part where I don't get. Why do you keep mentioning trolls? And from what I see, your mentality tells that you see everyone on YouTube as a troll, and only people agreeing with you are not trolls. Also, there's not just one way to express a feeling or an opinion. If the way I'm expressing my feeling towards you may offend you, does that mean I'm a troll? No. It just means that I'm different.
For example, if I go to a US veteran soldiers video on YouTube, I'm supposed to show respects for those who've passed away, right? However, I see someone in the comment saying, "Respects to those who've passed away to protect this country, especially Vietnam war and Iraq."
I would feel the need to go down and correct him by saying, "Not really. Vietnam war was an ugly war."
Then he would find my comment offensive and delete my post just because I simply state an ugly truth. (Why I know Vietnam war was wrong? Because I'm from Vietnam and I learn my history.) Nowhere in my statement have I once showed any disrespect to the soldiers who have participated in the war with Vietnam. However, it's important not to mistake respects to soldiers (which is something good) with Vietnam war (which is something bad).
This is a reference video if you think I based my claim on nothing: http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/investigation/vietnam-war-diary/
(just so it's easier to understand from a US perspective. I can't translate the whole history book from Vietnamese into English.)
Also, how can you know if some comments are mistaken as spams based on block words? For example, if I go onto a cat video and say, "OMG THAT SO FUCKING CUTE", and the system recognizes the word "fuck" as a spam and blocks me, then the video just loses a potential viewer because it didn't allow me to have a voice. If you restrict your audience to have a voice, it's obviously understandable that you'll gradually lose your audience over time, because, freedom of speech is essentially the first amendment, and being able to express oneself is the most important experience everyone should have, psychologically speaking.About Google+ experience
: So, you may wonder what my opinion on Google would be. Here they are:The positives
comments (so no more mistakes I guess? Also more time writing comments that nobody on the internet will ever read. I'm such a no-lifer...)
- Word formating
- URL (funny because back in the old old YouTube you were able to post links, so this can't really be called a "new" feature).
- Character unlimited (this really is a bad idea rather than good, but at least thanks to that I'm able to post this comment...)
- More ASCII arts possible since you can have unlimited lines now. (yea I think ASCII is pretty cool.)The negatives
- Forced integration. This is basically the worse point as well. This dismisses every positive things about this new system.
- Half-ass 2-level threading comments. Even the pretty hard-to-read comments on deviantArt are a lot easier to follow. Now reddit has it the 2nd best comment system. The 1st slot goes to... imgur. Seriously, imgur has one of the most organized and well-programmed comment system I've ever encountered. Not to mention it's extremely easy to follow conversations, as well as eye-candy because the overall background is black, making your eyes feel a WHOLE lot more relaxing when reading! (Now that you've mentioned it, I forgot YouTube has taken away the best thing ever about this site: customization of your channel.)
The mentioning system is TERRIBLE and doesn't help with replying AT ALL. In fact, if I was to try and find the comment you're replying to right now, I have no way to find where that comment went, unless I have to CTRL+F and type that person's name to search. THEN I'll have to scroll down to where your comment was to continue reading. This comment system is extremely unorganized and very unappealing. It's like an utterly ugly mess of incomplete assignments and papers from school thrown all over my bedroom, and I have to read through each and every single one of them with no way to sort them out.
- So what if I don't want to read my video comments on Google+? There's nothing I can do with it. That's an ugly move to try to get more traffics onto Google+. I'm on for YouTube, why would I need to go to an entirely different website to read comments on a video on YouTube?
- The UI on Google+ is extremely terrible. It's like they take a little bit from every social website and put them all in here and call it Google+. Seriously, if Google+ tries to copy Facebook, at least make it useful. The way posts are viewed on Google+ is extremely cluttered compared to Facebook, and harder to navigate. Think about it, the reason why Facebook has this interface is because of Timeline. You have the option to to view a full-blown post, and once you come there, you can see the post fully taking advantage of the screen's resolution (wide, short screen), where as Google+ doesn't even take advantage of what EVERY COMPUTER SCREEN RESOLUTION HAS but instead it goes vertical (thing, high screen), which is only useful if you rotate your computer screen from landscape to portrait mode (which I believe almost nobody uses).
Unless I switch to portrait mode, there are always A LOT of negative space on Google+, and it's killing my eyes with their "beautiful" gray background that I have NO ABSOLUTE WAY to change that.
So basically: ugly background, ugly interface, cluttered post structure, inability to customize your G+ page/profile background/look.
So basically it gives you ZERO tools to customize your contents and a whole lot of tools to moderate people. Why should I need that? What I care is what your contents are, and what people think of. Basically it's like the old YouTube where visiting a person's channel actually mean something and not just a boring white background and an abandoned discussion area.
- Not to mention in the old comment system, it's pretty easy to know what people think of a video just by taking a quick look, scroll down and you have 2 top comments on what most people agree on, and then newest comments to know what's relevant chronologically ALL IN ONE PAGE. There is no extra clicking and scrolling. Now with the new comment system, you'll have to do more and watch less.
- Another lame thing about this comment system which I'm not entirely sure if it's a feature or a bug, but child comments of a thread will automatically expand once you click on "View all replies". What if someone types a long ass paragraph? I don't want to read all of them. (Example, this one).
- The USEFUL "Show comment" button is now gone. To be honest, the "Show comment" system was actually more convenient and useful than this thread system, because it allows you to find which comment you're replying to with a click. Now you have to CTRL+F and then scroll back to your comment and then CTRL+F again to find what he said, or she.The neutrals
I don't know if I should hate this, but it's rather subjective. I don't mind hashtag, but I can understand if some people don't want those social network bullcrap forced upon them.
- +Username which is pretty easily abuse. You can actually mention everyone in the entire Google+ to view your comment without actually having anything relevant to the content. Given that the Google+ community is rather a small portion of the internet, now once it's integrated into YouTube, it's gonna face a lot of damage. Then again, the only time I saw this done once was on deviantArt where one person has successfully mentioned over 700k people on the entire website. (Which I think is impressive).Now that you've read til this point
(I assume), congrats. Here's a reward 'smooch'
Overall, I have not much against Google+. However, my experience wasn't that great, and Google+ needs to improved a WHOLE LOT MORE before it's qualified to be integrated into YouTube.
Right now it's terrible, yet I don't understand why Google pushes it so hard. I thought Google was a great company, yet I don't see them taking great things that work and apply to their products, yet they are more like forcing their experiment onto us while treating their audience like lab rats.
Tho I myself hate Google+, I understand that Google is a big company and they aren't gonna listen to a dissatisfied customer, therefore I'm gonna give them some of my expectation on how they should improve their terrible product Google+.
- The top drop-down home button is a terrible position and if they want to make it mandatory, they should learn from Microsoft Windows 8/8.1. If they want the whole drop-down menu to take up the whole left side of the page, then why not just make the menu to integrate to the left side rather than on the "top" left "corner"? It's rather inconvenient having to travel up and down, up and down.
- Same with the hangout button. Just integrate it into the right site.
- If you don't want to integrate those buttons to either side, then MAKE USE OF THE NEGATIVE SPACE if you ain't using it all the time. I mean, the moment you have your browser on full-screen mode, it's gonna kill your mind when no matter how much you try to resize the browser, you still have to read all the comments in a tiresome scrolling manner.
- If it's the same scroll and read attitude, except you'd have to scroll a lot more to read, Why not just make it simple like imgur too? Click to show replies to a comment. And click to comletely collapse all the replies once for all, not just one reply left like the current system.
- Make the "Collapse this comment" or "read less" button on top of a comment, or at least have a button to roll back to the beginning of the comment in case you're reading a long-ass comment (like the one you're reading right now).
- Allow the option to read comments in the inbox. The inbox was a whole lot more organized and easier to navigate than the new Google+ page. In fact, the reason why most people hate this integration is because of how hard and inconvenient it is to navigate around the site even with those computer nerds like me. Now reading comments has become such a chore that I doubt any YouTuber would bother interacting with their audience, or in other words, replying to their comments anymore. Or they can, but would rather use other sites such as Reddit or Imgur.What Google can do
- They can either improve their product immediately to cover every problem they've caused and to give ease of use to all of their users, or
- They can revert back to the old YouTube comment, which I believe is much easier to do and will also make A LOT of people happy.
Either way, I believe the best thing isn't now, but rather how they should change the way they carry out their service:
- Give their users base a chance to try out change -> Survey or Votes -> if most Liked or just Neutral (not either liked or disliked) -> proceed to carry out update.
-> if disliked or most disagreed with -> revert back to try another solution.
This way everyone is happy.