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What Google+ users know about G+ comments that YouTubers don't. (Yet.)

A popular YouTube user named +boogie2988 posted a rant recently about the new Google+-centric YouTube comments system.

But here's the thing: His complaints make 100% perfect sense to YouTube fans, and zero sense to Google+ fans. 

The reason is that YouTube-centric people haven't experienced how well Google+ troll- and spam-filtering works yet. 

As an example, I'm personally in about 2.8 million circles and post publicly every day. Yet I encounter maybe one troll a week in my comments. (The spammers are mostly taken care of by user flagging, so I don't see them much.)

This is unimaginable with the old YouTube system. 

In fact, this post will get a sh*tload of comments, I will demonstrate the power of Google+ comments by asking you to find the personal attacks, trolling, spamming, novels, ASCII crap and all the rest in the comment thread below this post/comment. Do you see it? No, you don't. That's the power of the Google+ commenting system. 

The comment thread you'll see below my post is the quality you can expect in the future after the new system has been in effect over time. 

I'm going to address each of the concerns raised in your video, but from the perspective of deep experience with the commenting system you're complaining about. 

1. It doesn't matter if people upload books or movie scripts. It has zero effect on anything. These will sink to the bottom and be ignored, and eventually the trolls will stop bothering. (You can do this on Google+, too, but nobody bothers anymore.)

2. Google has been very good at knocking down accounts that quickly pop up for trolling and spamming. This is a non-issue on Google+, and will become a non-issue on YouTube as the system has its effect over time. The culture of ASCII swastikas and penises emerged out of the old YouTube commenting system. I have never, ever seen these on Google+ because the tools and the use of those tools isolates these trolls and renders them completely unable to have an impact. 

3. Again, the horrible trollish comments are punished, not promoted in the Google+ system. People will flag and block and vote them down -- again, over time. Your concern is that ugly comments rise to the top -- the opposite will happen over time. Google+ comments is the cure for this problem, not the source. (And you should block every user who does any kind of personal attack -- you'll never see them again.)

4. External links are governed under the same system. Abusers will be flagged, blocked, isolated and eventually their accounts deleted. Again, you don't see this stuff happening much on Google+, and eventually you won't see if on YouTube, either. 

You asked Google to "please, please fix this."

What Google+ users know that YouTubers don't is that Google+ comments IS the fix and WILL fix all the things you talked about. The system will burn a scorched earth on the trolls of YouTube, and they will eventually find no quarter, get no attention and have no impact. High-quality commenters will grow in influence. Both these outcomes take time. 

YouTube has the MOST spam and trolls. Google+ has the LEAST. It's not because Google+ people are better -- they're not. It's because the commenting system is better. 

And here's the irony: YouTube commenting is now even better than Google+ for all these issues. On YouTube, better comments rise to the top and trollish votes can be voted down. 

The YouTubers who embrace the new system, and actively block trolls, will eventually find their comments with ZERO TROLLS. 
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320 comments
 
It's crazy how influential a comment like this can be with the new comment system!
 
Thats where the whining is coming from the most. All the trolls and spammers are starting to lose all their places to have fun so they are throwing temper tantrums.
 
A nice write-up but I think you underestimate the power of the Internet Troll.  This is a creature not deterred by obstacles, rather it is motivated by them.

For years we have been promised a troll free environment, first in forums, then in Facebook.  What do we have?  Smarter trolls.  

You do make a good point.  Like with most Google changes it is meeting with resistance, including myself, but will eventually be adopted and the benefits will float to the surface.
 
Thank you +Mike Elgan for weighing in! You're absolutely right on all counts. The only complaint I know many G+ people have is that there's no option for us to share YT videos publicly without having it post as a comment on the YT video whereas you can make a comment on YT without it posting on G+.
 
+boogie2988 is an awesome guy.  Most of his complaints are, as you say, things that the Google+ will handle on its own.  One of his other complaints is an actual problem, but I've already used my magical Google+ Top Contributor powers to get the ball rolling on sorting it out. 
 
Great post Mike, it's a shame people are so venomous towards the update so far. Those trollish comments were already the majority, now you can finally get some quality discussion without having to resort to a site like Reddit where half your viewers won't even show up.
 
+Jason Ansaldo we'll just have to see. The moderators need to take advantage of the filtering tools they've been given. Infact +boogie2988 already has the tools that he complains about in this video. He can easily remove comments that have anything that he doesn't want to see.
 
+Jason Ansaldo Yes, they're very persistent. Which is why YouTube seriously needed this set of improvements. 
 
Prepare yourselves .. "Bob" is coming.. 
 
+Anthony Raffini  one of the more legitimate criticisms I've seen is that the filtering tools have a character limit, while comments do not.
+Jason Pillow and he will quickly be muted and we'll move on with quality discussion.
 
+Whyso DelusionalGoogle+?
actually it appears that you are new here. The comments are G+ now. I'd say a Google+ user is probably more aware of the potential of the comment system than someone new to the comment system.
 
The YouTube blacklist is a powerful tool, people. Don't like negative comments? Block them now and forever. 
 
+Jason Pillow I'm counting on Bob coming. Deleting Bob comments and blocking the commenters is a two-click process. Trivially easy. I'm also hoping for personal attacks, spam, trolling and more. Other commenters can instantly flag such posts, so they'll be unceremoniously moved to the Google+ spam purgatory where they won't be seen. 
 
Google owns Youtube, they can do what they want with it. Move on people nothing to see here
 
+Vincent Rupp Jr. I think that to a large degree, YouTube content creators gave up long ago and have been overrun like something out of World War Z. 
 
It must be embarrassing to the YouTuber's who hate G+; that their lack of comprehension of what G+ is and all it's goodness. I suppose when the light bulb goes off, will be the moment of realization. 
 
Well said, +Mike Elgan, and I agree. Over time, the benefits of spam control and conversations on Google+ will shine through.
 
+Paris Mosley Consumer opinion and feedback is at the heart of social media interactions.  Why even have G+ if nobody should talk about change?
 
+Mike Elgan - Excellent post. I think the one thing I slightly disagree with is about Google+ having the LEAST amount of spam and trolls.

They're here. There here in spades! They're not even that hard to find if you look, tho they're not nearly as bad as YouTubers. But most users don't see them because they end up getting filtered as low-quality content.

And yet... we don't live in an echo chamber. We see lots of stuff if we're willing to see it.

I think thats going to be the ultimate takeaway from the new system on YouTube.
 
+Allen Firstenberg It's a Zen koan. If spammers and trolls exist on Google+ but I never see them, do they exist? And if they do, why should I care? : ) 
 
Someone posted a personal attack as an ironic joke, and I deleted it as an ironic joke. : ) 
 
Man, this is fun. Come on trollers, let's see who wins this battle :-)
 
I really appreciate +Mike Elgan's crusade against the Google+ haters (those who don't know any better, and not willing to try) on YouTube.

He could just let them go on their rants and check back in a while, when they have figured it out how great it is themselves, but in stead of that he tries to inform them and point out the errors in their concerns.

Props to you sir! 
 
I believe +boogie2988 is in NYC right now at a Sony event, he also doesn't seem to interact much right now, probably due to the sheer amount of trolls he was attracting due to his weight and his character Francis, who some people unfathomably didn't realise was just a hilarious creation of his.

I agree with much of what you say +Mike Elgan , but some of the tools were broken. Troll, ascii art and down right horrible comments were actually rising to the top due to the number of people commenting on them (many times people were actually commenting to criticise the post, but google still needs to pay more attention to flag spams and down votes than comments)
Hopefully soon people will realise that the best course of action is to simply flag/block, rather than interact with the trolls, because interaction is what they want and ignoring them will evetually lead to them getting bored and moving on.

Also, it was the sheer number of comments being directed at +boogie2988 that was the problem, it would have been impossible for one man to deal with it on his own and I can verify first hand that the automated tools just were not doing what they should have been.

People like +boogie2988 and +TotalBiscuit, The Cynical Brit have either turned off their comments or are considering it, but both appear to be fairly level headed guys and I hope that once things die down a bit they'll look at the tools available like shadow blocking and the ability to block posts based on certain keywords or phrases, personally I'm finding the new comment system excellent as a g+ user, and barring the initial creation of a g+ account, youtube users should also be able to continue to comment in exactly the same manner they could before (ie through the youtube website) but +Google+ and +YouTube  also needs to ensure that the automated systems in place to promote good posts over bad are working the way they are meant to.
 
In these circumstances, +Phil Priser, it's usual to say "It was nice knowing you", but...
...it seems there is an exception to every rule.
 
Reminds me of the old adage about people wanting "a better horse" -- being able to see the new thing only through the lens of the old.
 
Anything that cleans up the awful comments that were regularly seen on YouTube should be welcomed.
 
+Mike Elgan as a pretty hard core plusser, I think the reason the G+ system works is because we engage more and do the extra blocking. Google filters the viewers stream and shows them things which appeal to them. Youtubers ignore hateful comments and they will go unchecked.

Google+ is a producer->producer relationship. YouTube is a producer->subscriber relationship. I can see very valid points for those who wish to produce content and not have to spend the additional social time defending their positions. 
 
This whole YouTube comments debacle is hilarious, reminds me of my six year old son when I take away his toys as a punishment for bad behaviour. In fact every troll comment, spam protest picture and rant video I've seen could have been posted by a six year old.
 
FYI, everyone, I have managed to find a way to beat the troll filters. You see, I am 90% troll. But I sneak through the systems designed to hide my ilk by cleverly masking it with the remaining 10% 'reasonable person' appearance. To demonstrate, this comment will not be deleted, nor will I be blocked, despite admitting to my trolling nature.
 
What I'm noticing now is that comments from people in my circles are floating to the top instead of the grim that I use to see.  I would never comment on a youtube videos because of all the hate speech. Which usually was at the top of the comments. I'm actually commenting on youtube videos now and liking it.
 
Oh, and this thread
,.=°'°=sucks=°'°=,.
🐈🐱🐕🐶🐩🐹🐭🐀🐁
 
+Eli Fennell wrote an article that foretold this Mike, that Google is using g+ curation power (as you did here) to fight of the bad yt comments. The hitmen of g+
 
Part of the problem is that people who don't like (for wherever reason) the Google+ comments are voting the spam up. As if to say SEE! oh well. 
 
+Adam Outler The power of Google+'s system is mostly invisible and really subtle. Trolls on G+ are met with flagging (which puts them where nobody can see their post), blocking, not just by the poster but other commenters and reporting, where Google checks their activity over time and deletes their account if they're seriously abusing. Those who survive this process end up talking to other trolls, non-users or people who don't care. 
 
I'm glad they finally fixed YouTube. Look at the great discussion happening in this video's comments! And it's easy to read! :) Different doesn't always mean broken. There are so many advantages to using an updated comment system like this. The trolling others have mentioned is addressed, and videos get shared much more because the comments essentially repost the video to a new audience each time. And with the moderation tools, that means even more participation in meaningful discussions. 
 
+Phil Priser Your comment actually proves the superiority of the human filtering aspect: any algorithm would block it due to the harsh language. Humans read the irony between the lines and do NOT block it. +Mike Elgan
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One thing that a lot of people are forgetting is how subjective the comments are on YouTube videos, now.

When you look at the comments, you may see something different from what I see. This is because everyone's circles are different, and the best comments are displayed according to who is looking.

So if you're a troll, and all your friends are trolls, all you'll see in the best comments are the trollish ones.

So the trolls can go on trolling, thinking they're being successful in their own little sandbox that nobody else will see...
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The most annoying thing about the whole change-over is the "We're better, more intelligent and sophisticated than them" attitude of Google +Plussers.

Right or wrong the old comment system was part of the "YouTubers Community" imagine the uproar if the "YouTube Community" ways were imposed on Google+

It's embarrassing seeing the snobby attitudes of Google Plussers.
 
+Leonardus Setyabudi And why not? I can't stand it when false beliefs take hold. Everything +boogie2988 said in his rant was so obviously wrong. The very attributes he fears will kill comments are precisely the ones that will save them. 
 
+Whyso DelusionalGoogle+? I suggest you delete your comment and go to +Mike Elgan 's profile. Look at how long he's been around. Look at his posts. Look at the engagement he gets. I'd bet money you don't get that kind of engagement on your profile or YouTube page. If you merely bowed to the sensai, you could learn something.
 
+Rupert And that attitude is wrong. It's not that people on G+ are better, it's that the commenting system on G+ rewards intelligent, constructive people while the old YouTube commenting system rewarded haters. 
 
+Leonardus Setyabudi Thanks for the mention! Here's a tip... check the +1's on that article, you might notice a certain Googler on the list. I took it as a wink and a nod.
 
To be fair +Rupert has a point that there are plussers out there like that - but to be fair to the other side they are a minority.
 
Well said Mike, looking forward to this all shaking out in time.

Till then, I'll keep on flagging stuff in the comments section for channels I care about :)
 
Youtubers just need to learn that instead of commenting to trolls, they +should report and block them. Google+ users don't respond to offensive comments. We simply report and mute/block unwanted users. Let's help +boogie2988 to make the G+ commenting system a great experience. Go on his channel and report trolls.
 
+Mike Elgan oh there's definitely nothing wrong with that and it should have been done earlier.
+Eli Fennell I red it early so I didn't notice that wink.. I'll definitely check now wink
 
+Rupert - It's not snobby if you're right.
/sarcasm

Before the change, I'd look at YouTube comments and feel like I needed a shower. The racism, homophobia, and general hatred was always on the top, especially if the subject was the tiniest bit controversial.

Now I see discussions like the ones that have happened on my reshares of some of the videos. Yes, there are oftentimes heated tempers when people disagree with each other, but the vitriol I would see on almost every YouTube post never took hold on Google+.

It's not that we're better, or YouTubers are worse, but it is that YouTube has been considered a cesspit of hateful comments for a long time, and any change that tried to fix it would have had the non haters seem snobby when they finally managed to comment intelligently without a high risk of being called names just because they could string a coherent argument together.
Jeff F.
 
The problems with the new system aren't just about the trolls. My issues with it have nothing to do with that, and more to do with the clutter it generates to both sides.
 
If nothing else, the change will force the kiddies to come up with clever attempts at trolling to prevent being quickly blocked & reported. 

All the "bob" posts are just proving why the change is needed and how much its starting to hurt the less than intelligent trolling attempts. 
 
The very fact that you are engaging this character and patiently explaining how things should have always worked to him, and then the comments that follow: exactly as you've described, is indicative of the caliber of user and interaction on G+. New respect for you,+Mike Elgan.
 
+Jeff F. That's the beauty of the blocking. You can block people who create "clutter," too. Some people like trolls. I even like some trolls because they make me laugh. You can block people for any reason you want. It's your stream. 
 
I was thinking we should help +boogie2988 out by going to his video pages and down-voting, blocking, and reporting the bad comments. Maybe if enough of us help clean up his comments, he'll feel a little less stressed out.

... clicking over to his profile now.
 
Yes I've seen Bob and now the tank scripted posts flooding every where on youtube the last couple days.
 
The only issue I see with the change is: If someone comments on Youtube and ticks the box to share it to Google+ and I happen to comment on their POST here, it shows up as a comment on the video as well. I'm not commenting on the video, specifically but, rather on the post/comment they made about the video here on Google+. That could get a bit confusing, no?
 
This is interesting reading. I missed the whole party by not reading/commenting on YouTube videos. Now it's too late to see what all the fuss is about. The discussions here on G+ are usually good, so I believe the YouTube change is for the better.
 
I mostly agree +Mike Elgan but the integration isn't as seamless as it should be.  

The flagging in the native post is better than the YT comment view of the post. Your audience is mainly native G+, but this channel isn't (yet). 

I have some unresolved concerns over comment "ownership". 

Hover card confusion on YT too.
> The channel gets the YT hover-card. 
> The comment box profile gets a G+ hover-card. 
> Comments and comment replies get no hover-card. That's where the unclear identity is currently which will be abused until closed. 
 
Fortunately, 13 years in the online gaming community as a female has given me +9001 troll resistance. That being said, other than Facebook (which I wouldn't count because its literally ONLY for my family and close friends) Google+ is the ONLY online community outside of my video game communities where I interact with people (but that's generally via VOIP). This isn't because Google+  is the only outlet I could find where I could feel comfortable typing in response to someone and pressing enter, but rather its because its the only social media outlet that makes me WANT to have a conversation with someone or meet new people. I don't mind that Google+ flies a bit under the radar- in fact I believe that's what makes the Google+ community fantastically unique and its part of what I love about it.

I'm also somewhat familiar with the youtube community (although as a habit, I generally ignore comments on just about all of the sites that allow them, but find the musical renditions of the youtube comments hilarious). I think the integration is moving the interaction on youtube in a more positive direction for people. While it doesn't really make much of a difference to me personally, I'm always in support making massive online communities a better place for the users, and I think this was a great step. Now I just hope they don't all migrate to G+ and create a super-community to take over the world!

All that being said, the best progress will be made by the masses of us learning that simply ignoring them, flagging them, blocking them, and thereby starving them of your delicious tears is the best way to 'win'. Its certainly not by responding to them with reason and trying to appeal to their logic. That's handing them the game with a pretty bow on top.
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I'm going to repost this to the person that wrote the original remark:

Allow me to put a somewhat exaggerated but no less valid analogy on the current status of YouTube: You, the Google+ faithful, have come into our land preaching the benefits and goodness of doing things your way, a la Spanish conquistador style.  We, the native population, have our own culture and identity, and do not want to be forced to follow your concept of society.  You then accuse us of being barbaric and ungrateful for the blessings which you have so graciously bestowed upon our uncultured masses by claiming that those of us making noise are just the filth of the site complaining that we can no longer "troll".  When the system doesn't work, you say it's surely a result of us YouTubers being savages, for surely your supremely ordained commenting system cannot be faulted. (I'm referring to the statement "The culture of ASCII swastikas and penises emerged out of the old YouTube commenting system." Surely it must be the natives' fault)
 
+Robert Wallis There's no question that comments can be improved on YouTube, and also on Google+ for that matter. 

This post is specifically about the four concerns raised by +boogie2988. 
 
+Paris Mosley as i do agree with this ultimate point, there is a tenuous symbiotic relationship with users and google. users make what google sells or uses to sell ads, so the user has some power in this transaction. it is in their best interest to force terms they are comfortable with. 
 
+19ACE93 When anyone tells you those things, block them. 

My post explicitly says that Google+ people are not better than YouTube people. This is about understanding the commenting system. Google+ people understand it because we've been using it for two years. YouTube people do not because they've been using it for less than two weeks, and are still suffering from a culture encouraged by its absence. 
 
+19ACE93 - Sadly, it was not our choice to be selected as the "saviours" of YouTube comments, and that is where your analogy fails.

Ultimately, Google decided this, and we're going along with it. There are aspects of the integration that I dislike, and I keep mentioning those to the people that matter, but to blame the Google+ users for what is ultimately a business decision from Google (why develop and support two divergent commenting systems when you can use just one) is equivalent to blaming your helpdesk professional for your computer breaking; many people do it, but it's not right.
 
+Robert Wallis I agree that it's not seamless and there are a lot of real issues (e.g. you can do the moderation on android phone yet) but it's fixable.

Hit send to soon
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+Mike Elgan That is true, you did say that Google+ users weren't better, but you did say that the G+ comment system was.  Also, I personally don't like the precedent of blocking anyone with whom you disagree.  Even though I do not agree  with your position, I have enjoyed reading a view that is diametrically opposed to mine and yet sincere, and am really happy you personally responded to my comment. ^_^ 
 
I find G+ to be the most positive, intelligent social network on the internet - except if you criticise Android or Google!
 
+19ACE93 it's not about blocking people you disagree with, it's about having the ability to block people you don't want to interact with.
 
+Liam Joyce Nature of the beast since it's google's platform, but believe me, there are plenty around here circled by tens if not hundreds of thousands who do exactly that. Not everyone here is an android user or google lover
 
I still don't get how was it not broken before... Personally, I stopped reading YouTube comments ages ago for the simple fact that they were ALWAYS free rage outside the topic. And right now, I'm seeing this thread as top comment, which makes complete sense to me.
 
+19ACE93 Some people don't like disagreement, and for those people they can block people. Anyone can block anyone for any reason, and nobody should judge other people's reasons. 

Google+/YouTube is the one place on the Internet that is your own space. 

I look at Google+ like a place where I throw a cocktail party every day. Everyone is invited to my party by default. But when someone gets drunk and barfs on the couch, or screams at another one of my guests, or takes their clothes off and starts singing the Star Spangled Banner with a lamp on their head, guess what? They're not going to be invited next time. 

Blocking people is nothing more than the act of not inviting someone to your party. 
 
Maybe the old school youtube channel owners just don't want to have to interact with their fans and liked the old spam comments as a good excuse to ignore the comments section?
 
+Liam Joyce - LMAO! I'm a self confessed Google fanboy, and I criticise them often :P
 
+Mike Elgan +Christopher Norulak - No, it doesn't matter to us as users. It does matter to us as we try to explain it to someone else. It helps justify us saying "no really, this can work" if we acknowledge that Google+ has its seedy underside... but that we don't need to live there if we don't want to.

But if you like living among the pond scum... you're quite welcome to it!
 
A question to +boogie2988
After reading all those comments and in a month from now (maybe less), what will you do if you changed your mind?
 
+19ACE93 - Part of the point, however, is that the new system actually leaves the old one intact... if thats what you want. Do you want to spam? Want to post ASCII art? Want to curse up a storm? Go for it. If I like that sort of thing... I'll see it.

If I don't - I won't.
 
The real problem is that you are somewhat forced into G+ even if you do not want to as a youtube user. And that basically sucks ass FB style.

I am not for nor against this new system. I never used it anyhow.
 
+William Martin +Leonardus Setyabudi +Ayoub Khote   I love Google too, just not blindly. I like TECH! If I ever dare to say something against an Android feature or a Google policy, I get a torrent of hate, which is not my general experience with G+. But it is a pain and simply not needed. But THIS is the overall G+ experience - great discussions amongst people with similar interests. 
 
+Sander Takens When you say "forced" explain to me exactly how, when you are completely free to NOT use the service at all. Other similar video sharing sites are available.
 
We are Google.  Your site will be assimilated.  Resistance is futile, and will hurt your SEO.
 
Euhm ... +Mark Chance  I remember the days where I had to have FB otherwise I could not leave a comment. And you are very right I could choose another service. But I wanted to leave a comment but I could not cause I did not want FB. That can simply not be right way of doing things IMHO.

That is the biggest flaw.


. 
 
Amazing discussion. But, all technical things aside, let's just look at what we've got here: +Mike Elgan reaching out and communicating with +boogie2988 (hopefully reciprocated). THAT's the beauty of this whole G+/YT integration - it simply wouldn't (and couldn't) have happened before. In a nutshell.
 
I for one really like the new YouTube comments, the troll comments are already beginning to die down IMO. Its hard to find even 1 ASCII art comment on some of the videos:)
 
These people complaining about free to use services, here's a tip don't like it, don't use it! 
 
+Sander Takens Maybe not the most desirable way of doing things, but this is the price you pay (so to speak) for using a free internet service.
 
+Mark Chance  I find that a false argument. It forces you into something you do not want. But I still want to contribute in some way but is kinda made impossible this way.

I do get the spam and toll thing really. But this is so wrong! 
 
Great read! G+ for the win! the only thing broken on G+ +Mike Elgan is the What's Hot section, used to be a great way of catching up with great posts. If there was a way of removing teenager-ish posts it would go back to awesome. I know curating posts might lead to abuse so not sure what the best wait to filter them is.
 
  Dude, if a picture is something that offends you, its not Google+'s job to fix it, you need to man up and not be afraid of a picture. If you fear a picture of a penis or a swastika, YOU have the issues, not the website that allows it to be posted. Welcome to America where freedom of speech is a protected right, even if that speech is not something you agree with.

  Because someone is not intelligent enough to NOT click on a link that MAY deliver a virus, does NOT require a website to censor what is posted. If a link is viral, or you suspect it MAY be viral, don't click on that link. It is not Google's job to round the corners of the world so you can feel safe, that's your job. Round your own corners.

  I am not going to call you names based on your weight, but i will say you need to be more mindful of your health. As far as I am concerned, you are a genius, I would hate to see that genius snuffed out for a love of food.

Fear is a tool best used on the minds of the weak. 
 
+Stuart Cook That's right. I had never even heard of Mr. 2988 before this week. I'm also seeing a lot of YouTube videos where 100% of the comments posted on YouTube are actually from Google+. 
 
I'm glad Google is finally doing something about YouTube comments! They've been out of hand for quite some time.
 
+Sander Takens To quote something I posted recently "If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer, you're the product being sold"
In other words you're not paying for it, therefore you don't have much say in how it serves you. As for being forced, what size gun do they put to your head to make you sign up?
 
Maybe I misunderstand, not being American, so I'd be glad to be corrected, but does "freedom of speech" apply to private property? It was my understanding that the right is conferred to protect you from the government, not, uhm, YouTube. 
 
+Juan Pablo Gomez what's hot gets better with use too. Without doing anything, over time my WH section has evolved to be very clearly tailored to my interests. Not a bieber or one direction post in sight. I've even lost the silly "funny" posts that went viral but weren't very good. 80+% of WH posts are of interest to me now
 
+Brian Workman I think you're exactly right, you have the freedom to say what you want, but if you do it on someone else's property (like a website) the have the right to remove you if they don't like it.
 
+Mark Chance I do not give a shit if it is free or not. I choose what I want. Now that choice is made for me. 

The point is that you are more or less forced to use something. If you want to engage that is ... is that not what G+ users proud them self on?

And in regard to your gun.  I like me a Glock.
 
Sorry but I couldn't pay attention after the 24th time he had to push his glasses back up. Maybe he could try the pair behind him?
 
God that guy is a whining douche; and he is popular?!

He's flat out wrong too, the first comment I got was +Mike Elgan's so obviously it's a. promoting relevant posts and therefore b. working correctly.

You had the spam before but worse and without any tools to report and/or filter it out.
 
Who has to use Google plus to engage? Just use the YouTube website like you always have If that's what floats your boat 
 
+Mike Elgan Very astute observations. My hope is the idiots who post this nonsense garbage move on to greener pastures and leave the G+ community alone. There is already an outcry about Google's next move about using caller ID to link with G+. I have not been able to confirm this but it seems it is likely in 2014.
 
I understand I hate the change but I'm getting used to it
 
I have to say, this all seems a bit out of scale.

I have been quite prolific on YouTube, and I don't see the issue. Most of what he complains about is easily resolved by changing his settings to require comment approval, which is still an option.

If a Top Comment is foul, then just remove it, or don't approve it.

If someone is creating ascii art, then just remove it, or don't approve it.

If someone is posting books and scripts, then just remove it, or don't approve it.

Disabling his comments all together is a bit extreme. It's like he is destroying his own experience, not +Google.
 
+Mike Elgan Isn't everyone's "what's hot" different? I think it's quite smart of google to realise you're interested in +boogie2988 even when the content doesn't actually refer to him

And +Sander Takens there's nothing difficult about it at all. Once you're set up, you watch a video, click comment (or reply if you want to reply to an existing comment) and off you go. No need to ever visit g+ once the initial setup is complete
 
+Mark Chance and why is that? 

I just do not like the idea of people signing up for shit they do not want. Free or not it is just bullshit IMHO
 
+William Martin That is not what I have heard. They keep bothering you again and again with G+ this G+ that and so on. As a G+ user it seems you do not have that hassle Some people don´t even seem to be able to comment anymore.
 
+Mike Elgan I don't think you can see your own What's Hot posts anymore since they made plus 1s share out to other people.
 
+Brian Workman do tell :)

+Mike Elgan I do get the idea. I just do not see it as an ´great´ improvement as is. For a G+ user maybe for a non G+ user not so much.
 
Just posted this from under the youtube video. There IS a bug with some people who DON'T have a reply button, but that isn't an issue with the system, that's an issue with the software not doing what it's meant to
 
No +Brian Workman it is not about the converted ... it is about he NON converted! I see what I can do for ya on that front.
 
+Sander Takens I have never used a service I felt was forced upon me that I didn't agree with or at least could put up with. ALL services force things upon you. No online service is so completely customizable as to make the entire experience your own. There are always aspects which people will simply just not like and either 1) put up with it or 2) not. 

That's not meant to say that opinions shouldn't be expressed as they are often heard and acted upon, but the level of vitriol happening surrounding this integration has been infantile. And how often do we wish to reward the screaming child in the grocery store?

Reasoned and measured discourse. Google is not in a tower so completely cut off, they can see what's going on. If changes come, those changes will align with their design.
 
+Sander Takens - I agree with you on this which is why I get so annoyed when I end up at a forum or site that refuses to let me sign in using anything other than Facebook. I'd be equally annoyed if I could only sign in to a site that had nothing to do with Google using G+, but I've not run into this yet.

It's different for YouTube using Google+ to power comments though as Google owns YouTube, and every Google account is also technically a G+ account even if you never post on the site. I don't think you can really argue with Google asking you to sign in to a website they own using a Google account. You're not obliged to use G+ now, you post comments on YouTube and they already on that page, G+ is just powering the system.
 
Well +Brian Workman I did sign up to FB just to be able to voice my opinion in a comment. There was no way around it. And G+ is to do about the same. Sorry I held them in higher regard.

If that makes me a infantile so be it. Happy to be one. And I do hope they do find a better way of making this work.
 
All I could think about when I watched that was "clean your fucking room"
 
Though I never saw the comments on his channel prior to today, there's +Mike Elgan all over +boogie2988's youtube channel. I'm pretty sure that's an upgrade.
 
+Sander Takens I am not suggesting YOU are infantile, I'm describing videos like the one featured here, Colleen's and several others and also the ranty rage comments. :) You've been posting quite well here, and the decorum you're displaying is just fine! :)
 
+William Martin Oh, good call and thank you for the link. I'm not above admitting I'm not as well-read as I'd like to be. All the things, where's my jack into the internets! That would help a lot! :)
 
I love Google+, I have been using it since it launched in beta in June 2011. It has been a joy to see how Google+ has evolved over the past years with the addition of many new exciting features.

YouTube comments needed improvement, there is no argument about that but forcing people to use another service just to use the current service is wrong. Imagine what would happen if Facebook turned around and said, if you want to upload pictures you have to have an Instagram account. Many users would stop using Facebook in a heartbeat.

Many of the leading content producers make a living off YouTube and both the content creator and YouTube benefits from their creativity. A culture has developed around YouTube and messing with this culture is asking for trouble. I am not saying that change is not necessary but the implementation by Google leaves much to be
desired. I mean it is Customer service 101, keep your users happy!

I really believe that you average Google+ user is far more educated than the average user of Facebook or Twitter, this leads to some really intectually stimulating, thought proking discussions. In a way, the new Google+ comment system threatens freedom of speech, annoymity is really important to some people as it allows them to express their true opinions, yes annonymity can lead to spam, bullying and trolling but effective filtering and blocking can avoid this sitution. People are way less likely to post their honest opinions about controversial topics as they run the risk that their comment can come back to haunt them. Companies are increasingly doing online research about their potential employees, hence the increasing opportunity that you many loose a job offer because of your view or opinion on something. Don't fool yourself, that really does happen.

What I like about the new comments system
• The threaded comments make it easy to follow and contribute to a discussion.

• The expanded YouTube / Google+ integration could allow for new use cases with Google+ Hangouts on air which could be extremely beneficial to viewers and producers.

What I don't like about the new comments system

• The top comments don't rank properly, when I click "top comments" I expect to see ALL of the top comments ranked in descending order from the top rated comment but this is not happenning.

• My biggest gripe about the integration is the fact that each time you share a video on Google+ or in a Google+ Community it is added as a comment on the video:

Consider this scenario: Lets say I made a tutorial about a cool After Effects trick and I publicly post the link on my Google+ timeline and in the After Effects Google+ Community. A few weeks later, in case somebody missed my post, I decide to reshare the link on my timeline as well as in the community. This sharing has created 4 comments on the original video and looks extremely desperate to normal people.

Another scenario: I'm an aspiring videographer and I see a cinematic video that catches my eye but I have no idea how it was done. In order to find the techniques that were used to create video, I would have to share the video to a couple of video Google+ communities, this in turn creates a barrage of YouTube comments on the video which would definitely look spammy to normal viewers.

The Google+ comments also allow for irrelevant comments, for example I may post an inspiring time lapse of nature before a weekend to my followers with something along the lines of "Enjoy your weekend", how is that relevant to the video?
 
After spending the last half hour defending G+ in the /r/Youtube subreddit. It's nice to come here where people actually get it. sigh I feel relieved. :)

P.S. If you want to help improve youtube's opinion of g+, a good place to change a few minds is at that subreddit.
 
I agree. The anger over g+ integration is ignorant 
 
Sighs It is not not great it is kinda ok could be great if google would just STOP bullying people into G+ +Jared Naude adds some nice sauce to the mix
 
Having read the comments posted here regarding the"integration" I have decided that I have a lot of intelligent and witty people in my circles..... Oh and that I'm an excellent judge of character/dodgy profile pictures.
 
a failure of an ascii bomb
 
I admit I've become so fond of blocking trolls I envision it as a "Whack-a-Mole" game called "Block-a-Troll". Maybe, one day, it could be Google doodle.
 
These folks need to figure out what the mute button is all about. 
 
Well all I can say is, who would've thunk it, a little white box where you leave a few words on a little old website with videos of funny cats, could cause so much upset to so many. Man we get it rough in the first world. Thanks +John Munro 
 
I think I'm the only one that has a "wait and see" attitude before judging the impact of the commenting change.
 
+Mark Chance So your opinion is that human interaction is or should not be important to humans? 
 
People complaining about this are like people complaining every time Facebook changes something. (probably the same ones...)

Good or bad people complain about what they don't understand. Specially when something replaces what they were used to.
I just call it fear of change.
 
+Jared Naude Your metaphor is backwards. It wouldn't be like Facebook requiring an Instagram account, more like Facebook requiring Instagram users to use a Facebook account with the service. Which, some day, they might.

Google+ is not "a different service". It is your new unified Google account system. Had Google always had a single account system instead of a fragmented system of different accounts on different services, no one would even question it, anymore than having one account for all of Amazon. You don't buy stuff on Amazon using one type of account, then review the product using another type. That would be silly.
 
This is nothing more than the latest cause of the week.  all who are going to bitch about the change will do so for the next couple of weeks and then they'll shut up about it and learn to use the new system.  6 months from now everyone will be asking what all the fuss was about.
 
+Mike Elgan No brother, you got me twisted. I am all for interaction and conversation. I'm talking about what I believe to be a complete overreaction to the changes by so many. In the grand scale of things, its a minor. Like the saying goes. "I used to complain about my shoes, until I saw a man with one foot"
C Ames
+
7
8
7
 
I did not know any of this about the filters G+ uses. I honestly though that the people here were simply more intelligent and polite. 
 
I can't believe I've missed the Obama ascii penises. DAMN YOU G+ filtering!
 
I think people talking about the YouTube community and even YouTube comments are kind of missing the point. Google decided they didn't want to put resources into maintaining two communities, and so they killed one of them. Just like they didn't want to put resources into two photo platforms, or two chat systems, or any of the other things that have been absorbed and integrated.

All conversations on Google-owned sites are now G+ conversations. The sooner everyone figures that out (and the sooner Google updates the UI to make that clear), the easier this conversation will be.
 
The only downside to +Mike Elgan posting something brilliant... is that I haven't got enough time to read all the comments!

Seriously though, a lot of the angst that YouTube users are feeling is probably down to a lack of awareness about the G+ commenting system. The tools are there as many of you have already stated. It just needs a little more time for self education to kick in and that "Wow. I get it." moment of epiphany when you realise how incredibly liberating G+ is.
 
I wouldn't have even seen this post or stumbled across this guys channel if it weren't for +Mike Elgan . G+ can be a useful tool for 'tubers
 
don't like comments? turn em off! people are such babies ;)
 
I couldn't agree more with +Mike Elgan . The YouTube community is clinging to a dying comment medium. +Brittany Constable nailed it.

Would you have preferred YouTube to make its own social network for its community?? Resulting in a massive overhaul of not only the comment system but virtually every aspect of the YouTube experience? I discuss some of my thoughts here http://youtu.be/6A2IvLKRbYo

In time, this will be a very positive shift for YouTube.
 
+C Ames, while the filters do help, the main effect is indirect. When bad trolling is not the way to get attention, potential trolls are likely to act more civilized and polite. That simply works better.
 
The level of butthurt going on on YT is insane! Ironically, 99% of the complaints are emanating from bot and troll accounts -- you know, the very thing this G+ comment integration is attempting to stop. 
 
ok I give up where is the troll in the comments here?
 
+Mike Elgan
I liked the Zen Koan comment very much. not seen pretty much like nonexistent
 
I think many items that you pointed out aren't actually addressed.
The community is very different. 

I don't think you can compare both of them like that. Saying that it will work because it worked on G+.
There are much more trolls on YouTube, much more immature kids, public's average age is different. G+ never needed blacklists to be a nice place to hang.

When the punishment is automatized by algorithms I agree that it works. But when we depend on the community to flag and block them, it's hard. 
 
Wow... you really are completely misinformed and I have to say quite ignorant on this subject aren't you Mike Elgan...

Firstly there have been more spam, vile and trolling posts since the google + comments/ posting system was forced upon us YouTube channel owners, that sir is a FACT...

Now lets take your incredibly flawed and basically wrong points in turn shall we...

1. The uploading of books/ movie scripts etc... does indeed have an adverse affect on YouTube channels as they don't as you have wrongly claimed sink to the bottom, they stay at the top as other spammers & trolls +1 them... FACT...

2.  The "culture of Ascii spam was not  a problem on YouTube as the posts were limited to 300 characters whereas now with the unlimited length of Google _ posts they are now a problem... FACT

3.  Wrong again as I have already pointed that out to you in answer number 1... FACT

4. Wrong yet again YouTube never allowed external links in posts and now thanks to this absurd and flawed Google + system they are full of them leading to all sort of obnoxious sites.... FACT


We will never have "Zero Trolls" as you claim simply because those kind of people simply start up new accounts if they get banned.

Here's the irony to your incredibly wrong and very flawed comments you have just made, YouTube commenting is NOT BETTER it's worse for the following reasons...

1. Even as a You Tube channel owner you cannot reply to certain posts "Google+" users post that show up on our videos because if you're not in their "circles" you are not allowed to reply to them... FACT

2. Posts appear on our videos now from "Google+" users that have nothing to do with the video or are part of a conversation that "Google +" user has been having with someone else and make no sense to anyone else reading them... FACT

3. We cannot reply to our regular users 7 subscribers posts now if they were posted before November the 6th because the reply option has been removed from them... FACT

4. The new system automatically decides what it thinks is spam and hides/ blocks those posts even though the posts it is hiding are not Spam and are perfectly legitimate and reasonable posts and there is no way even as a channel pwner for us to unmark/ ublock them as being wrongly labelled as Spam... FACT

So you see sir you are completely wrong in everything you just claimed and it's obvious you are not a YouTube channel owner otherwise you would have known this...

I have no doubt you will delete this post and report it for being spam, insulting or whatever but rest assured it is not and is imply pointing out to you the facts of the matter and how wrong everything you have said and claimed is...

Shame you are posting what is nothing more incorrect opinions and conveniently ignoring the FACTS of this subject but then having read every word that you have just posted, it's clear that you're just someone who likes to spout lies and smugly sit back as the sheep blindly follow the utter rubbish you have written...

Think your are exactly what you have been gibbering about in your ill informed blurb there... a Troll & a Spammer... ;-)
 
oh +Frank Spiers you really don't understand how it works.  So many of your 'FACTs' are wrong. take a deep breath, have a proper read through the information out there (including Mike's post again) and come back when you're better informed.  

Here's a freebie: a channel owner does not need to be in the circles of a commenter to be able to respond to them.

As has been said, Google+ers get it.  People new to Google+ haven't sussed it out yet.  
 
Im a google+ fan and it made sense to me just fine.
 
+Eric Liou its harder, but I'm not sure its wildly different.  Even some of the youtubers are commenting that they are bored of seeing bob when most of them just want to get on with watching videos and sharing their thoughts.  

I think for too long, there's been no point in hitting 'flag/report' on youtube because it doesn't do anything.  Now it does, people just need to get in the habit of pressing the button :)
 
With any change there will be naysayers going nuts.  Once the dust settles, even the most dedicated YouTubers will see the light.
 
+Paul Brocklehurst What I have posted there are FACTS, Facts that can easily be proven...

Suggest you take an even deeper breath and have a proper read at them again and get back to me with an apology when you realise how totally uninformed you are...

I also suggest before you tell others how you think they don't understand things  that you actually learn to understand things yourself, then at least you could make an informed comment on things you post about instead of just blurting out random nonsense...

PS: Prove my FACTS wrong then oh mighty informed one... YOU CAN"T CAN YOU... ;-)
 
+Mike Elgan Could you do what most other responsible Google+ users have done and change your settings so that people who don't want to see your posts don't have them forced in their streams though that plus one thing.   Thank you. 
 
Ironic you should comment on this just now +Mike Elgan, as I was just posting about your comments on this video.
 
+Mike Elgan, such an outstanding post. I 've seen his video(s) a couple of days back and was confused a bit about the commenting system. Personally I think, if the users are given an option to limit the number of characters per comment, that'd help em a lot. Another bad thing I've noticed is, most of the comments are from the same person, but with tons of different accounts. I wish there is a fix, maybe an IP block? Right now, blocking or flagging a user seems useless as he can instantly come up with another account (I wonder if they don't get tired building new accounts.). Again. Thank you for doing this post. I wish the guy in this video reads it. I liked his videos :-)
 
+Frank Spiers What you fail to realize is that the issues you are drawing attention to is nothing more than a tantrum.  These problems didn't spring up because of google+ comment system, they sprang up because children didn't like change so they found every way to abuse and exploit the system.  It's not like people were waiting in the wings for the comment system to change so they can post full movie scripts.

I don't know why people fail to realize that the comment system actually empowers users to have more meaningful contact with each other.  It's not like the new system is preventing you from doing anything the old system did.  If anything, these "flaws" people are pointing out illuminate new possibilities for the system.  If people would just calm down and actually have a rational look at it, they might realize the things they can do now are far greater than what YouTube used to have.

Case in point: this thread.  Never before has a more coherent conversation occurred on any video posted to YouTube.
 
+Mike Elgan Ok, well this thread should educate you - especially the comments - I think all of these people understand Google+ at a deeper level than you. http://goo.gl/7FCwpO
 
+Rob Gordon
 You can take all your circlers and put them in one circle and then watch that stream instead of your All stream.. that will take out everyone's plus one posts,  youtube comments and the things Google 'suggestions' for you.
 
Thank you +Shawna Mac -  I really am hating Google's filtering on our main stream, and they way they force extreme fanboy material on us.   I was doing that earlier, but it is another thing to maintain - most people have disabled it. 
 
I disagree. Being online since 1989 I can honestly say that people that use Google Plus are generally smarter and a little more polite than most other social sites.

Not saying that the blocking/muting system doesn't help, of course it does! But you aren't giving credit where credit is due (to the people, too!)
 
+Jason Ansaldo .... I don't know. Your post is No.6 from the top and with only 9 "+1s" and I still haven't run into a troll. 
 
+Rob Gordon
 I find it annoying too, but better just to make an all circle than to try to get all 5000 people to click that box.
 
+++++ Only dicks and wannabe trolls are hating, comments on non english videos are squeaky-clean
 
Lack of troll comments is just a major indicator of how unpopular and far from mainstream social media G+ is.

All you achieved so far is you forced many popular Youtube channels to disable comments.

Also lets mention how you promised "shadow ban" functionality and then just decided that you are too busy for it.
 
+Andrei Zhuk and how do you explain the lack of troll comments now this content is on youtube?  Seen any trolls anywhere on this thread?  People can repeat "Google+ is unpopular" as much as they like, it doesn't magically make it come true.  Though I agree, it is far from mainstream social media.  Far ahead ;)
 
Trolls have zero interest in not popular media - its logical, they want maximum attention.

Number of comments indicates popularity og G+ clearly - its too low for discussion on such hot topic.
 
you mean the number of comments on this thread?  Mike Elgan isn't the be all and end all of G+ discussion! :)  In fact its not actually that hot a topic, outside a microcosm of people interested in youtube and social media interaction.  Search for say the Phillipines typhoon and I'd argue there was more content posted on Google+ than on youtube.
 
Did people need to have a YouTube account before to comment? Or could they just comment without any form of login?
 
Appels and oranges. And now we got a smoothi!
thay are diffrent things and attract diffrent user groups. 
 
+Frank Spiers the thing is you're taking your FACTS in the wrong context. (Which I believe is a lot of what +Mike Elgan is saying.)

You're looking at things within the context, and framework of the OLD commenting system, not the new one.

For instance your comment about the trolls.

Under the old system the troll could get banned, make a new account and go right back to where he/she left off interrupting the flow of comments. There wasn't really any kind of motivation not to either. It wasn't a lot of work to make a new account, so making a new account and jumping back in was almost motivation to continue! (Haha look you can't stop me nya nya!)

Under the new system there are two things a troll can do.

1. Post his own starter post.

2. Post under someone else's comment string.

Now, the new system defends against a troll doing number 1 by the way it takes who the poster is into account. Someone like Mike, has a LOT of followers. He's going to get a lot of +1s, and he's going to get a lot of re-shares and replies.  A troll will have to work REALLY hard to beat him into the top comment  spot- so much so that he's most likely been banned LONG before getting anywhere close.

Now let's say troll decides to post under Mike's comments instead... Mike has a lot of loyal followers. They're probably just going to very quickly hit the report as spam button, and said troll is going to be wiped away very quickly.  You can even just block a poster if you don't want to report him/her as spam, but just don't want to see/read whatever he or she says.

This is ALL taking place without the owner of the video post ever even touching his/her blacklist (which allows you to filter out things like ascii art, or hyperlinks) or other commenting tools.

The context of FACTS is important.
 
+Rob Gordon - That setting will stop posts that +Mike Elgan +1s from appearing in your stream, but there is no setting to stop anything that +Mike Elgan (or anyone else) posts from appearing in your stream if someone else +1s it. :)
 
+Ayoub Khote the setting is called don't circle people you don't like seeing posts from. :P
 
+Mike Elgan I was pretty much on the fence with not caring one way or the other about this, until  just recently when I started seeing people in my circles comments on Youtube videos that I care nothing about because those videos and comments are not relevant to my interests . Just because I have a plusser circled and interact with them when they post relevant content based on that circle does *not mean I want to see all their Youtube comments bubble into my feed and create more noise in my feed. *

The other issue is the Youtube android app seems to have broken for me. It keeps wanting me to sign in or create a new Google account, when I try to sign in I get an error that I am already signed in on the device.  My Youtube channel is not linked to my  G+ right now because I have had the same Youtube account for years and people know my content ( which isn't much or even that great ) by my Youtube handle, switching over to my G+ account which isn't relevant to my Youtube channel is ridiculous, I know I can just create a G+ page for my current Youtube handle , but that is just another site or account to manage.
 
+Sterling Phry I'd say this falls into two categories. 

One I follow people that I find share interesting things. And those interesting things can come from, shares, +1s and now YouTube comments. If they're not interesting, or I find them annoying I un-circle them. It's not the systems fault those people suck. 

Two- some people aren't used to the new system yet, so they probably need people to give them the benefit of the doubt while they learn to un-check the "post to G+" box before commenting when they're making something not share worthy.

That kind of stuff will probably settle down over the next few days/weeks... The first one... We sucky people always suck.
 
I think you might want to make your bed before you shoot video in your room. I'm just saying....
 
+Jason Stewart I think you are half right. But the point of having people in different circles is to categorize them by interest right? If for example I have a user in my Android circle, it is because I want to see and share content specifically related to Android. It does not mean that I now am automatically obliged to see all their comments videos for reviews on sushi bars in Canada.
 
have not left one comment since last week. 
 
can i just say? all those thinking this is killing the trolls... this is enabling them. this has exasp[erated an anoyance to a potential threat to systems. please imagine a scenario where someone posts a comment to a virus on some famuos persons webby. As this guy just said. he is in fear of trolls wreaking his page NOW not before. I have simply not bothered to comment for a while. i can imagine traffic has dropped considerably if these factors are anything to go by. I was a big commentator. It just went cold for me.
 
+Robin Gething - That's the thing. While this commenting system is new to YouTube, it's had two years to mature on Google+ with a fair amount of trolls trying to add virus links. Google has industry leading spam controls, just like the ones on your Gmail, checking for bad URLs on Google+ posts.

That's why most bad URLs don't even appear on Google+. They go into a view that only the poster can see, when they choose to see it (You'll get a notice at the top of the comments to show comments removed as spam, so you can check for false positives).

While I understand his fear, I hope that he reads this and understands that there are people who have confidence in the system, and that confidence has been proven over time to be well placed.
 
its up. not a direct link to a virus but a ink to the site. im skeptical.
 
+Robin Gething Saying that the new system will enable trolls is like saying that investing your money will make you poor. 

Let's say you have $10,000 in the bank, and someone advises you to invest half of it in secure investments to make money. So you invest half your money, then say: "Oh, my god! This investment thing isn't making me more money. Now I've got half!!"

The system is designed to isolate trolls, and take away their rewards for trolling. They want to hijack threads and take over conversations. They can't do that from the bottom of the comments where nobody reads. They can't do that when they're blocked. They can't do that when they're ignored, voted down and muted. 

Can you give it a minute? It's going to space!

One year from now, YouTube comments will no longer be the Internet's laughing stock. It will be a place where people can have conversation threads like this one -- zero trolls, zero personal attacks, zero spam. 
 
+Ayoub Khote, one of the main components of complaints from YouTubers that I've seen is a level of immaturity that results in name calling and referring to the G+ community as middle-aged white men, which might well be true, but it's thrown out as an unnecessary pejorative rather than an observation of fact (or perception).

For me, it's not the complaints that are the problem (though there are some irrational complaints mixed with the rational) but the name calling, meanness and trolling, all coming from supposed devout YouTubers who mostly seem to have adopted false personas on G+ as well.

I think there's a community of professional (or dedicated, actually, as I doubt they get paid) trolls who are quote up in arms that their community will be annihilated by G+ comment moderation.

One of the positives to come out of all of this for me is that I learned (guess I always took it for granted heretofore) how powerful spam blocking is on G+. I just figured we were more civilized!

I have been wrong all along.

#Blissfullignorance   
 
please do not down load the link above
 
+Mike Elgan that was pretty much the worst analogy I've heard on any forum and I've been here since '95. Please whip yourself with spaghetti. Please do not repeat that.

 "zero trolls, zero personal attacks, zero spam. " clearly you are new here.
 
its wasn't difficult to spot. just go and try to reply to a comment made over a week ago. double dare you.
 
try to look at someones reply that was over a week ago. 
 
If youtube comments section was a laughing stock that the first time i heard it. This is google+ integration, not troll killing.  As a long time user of youtube, this has put me off.  And no, it hasn't stopped trolls. analogies do not distract from that fact.
 
In YouTube setting you have the blacklist, add in the likes of http, www, goo.gl etc and all comments with links will be sent for moderation +Robin Gething

Really easy for channel owners to manage the comments to keep out malicious content.
 
My bad. I thought that this thread was started yesterday with +Mike Elgan's comment on the video. I didn't think there could be any comments/posts on this thread more than that old.
 
+Robin Gething really? Were you living under a rock? :P The statement "I'd rather go read the comments section on YouTube" was a pretty common joke...

And right now yeah it's new- a lot of people haven't figured out the tools they have.  
 
+Robin Gething what +Mike Elgan is saying is that you will be no worse off.

Okay if the Google+ comments system doesn't stop the trolls etc then it's no worse than the cesspit that came before it.
 
+mike quinn nice. some platitudes. you mention me but then not even address what i said. 
 
+Robin Gething anyone now can report you as spam. We can also mute you, so your comments never even show up in our stream. 

It's sort of like that who "YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE!" thing they're always doing in horror movies and the like... Trolls can do what they want, but if people just mute them, or report them and make them go away they don't disrupt the thread, and they have no power.  they get bored and go elsewhere like they mostly have on G+.
 
hmmm. perhaps the reason you were not getting spammed was because google+ was not so popular with idiot kids.
 
im not going to bother with ASCII art as i can see it everywhere.
 
Actually +Robin Gething I addressed two things you talked about

1. Viruses (blacklisting http etc)
2. Your slagging of mikes analogy

But just you keep on keeping on being a dick. Because now I'm blocking you so I don't have to view your shit.
 
+Jason Stewart QUOTE: "+Frank Spiers the thing is you're taking your FACTS in the wrong context. (Which I believe is a lot of what +Mike Elgan is saying.)"...

I'm not concerned about "Trolls", "Trolls" apart from being mythical beings are just a silly label I've noticed that certain internet users generally try to place on other people whom don't share their opinions or views. Theyget called "Trolls" because the person labelling them as such usually can't answer or reply to people with different opinions... but that's just my honest view and experience of the whole "Trolls" thing...

Anywhoo, This is not about "Trolls" this is about the fact the YouTube Commenting/ Post system has been replaced with something that simply doesn't work as I have explained previously....

All these "Google +" users saying give it time and YouTube users will like the new system are simply wrong. The system doesn't work properly on YouTube accounts, It has too many features that simply don't work for example the new system hides post it THINKS is spam when it turns out most of the posts it is hiding are NOT spam. The so called option to unmark them as Spam doesn't even function, so legitimate comments are being hidden/ blocked with no way to reinstate them...

That's just one of the many problems this "Google+" enforced posting system is causing for YouTube Channel owners...

It's not about "Trolls", It's not about people being forced to use their real names, It's about the FACT the "Google +" method of posting simply doesn't work on YouTube comments...

So all those people saying give it time and YouTube users will like and understand this new method are completely wrong. I give you these Facts as a YouTube Channel owner who knows (and has explained) to those whom are not, the simple facts that this system is badly flawed and doesn't work....
 
Maybe if Google altered YouTube channels to be more like their Communities or Pages, where channel owners could 'on-board' Managers to handle moderation.
....you seriously can't expect a YouTuber to go through 30k+ comments to weed out the trolls posting porn/malicious hyperlinks or ASCII Art.

And what about those 'Tubers who are actively trolled?

...it's easier to just disable comments. Or move to another video host/viewer. Like Vimeo.
 
+Jason Stewart well i was aware that the it needed improving and was quizzical as to why it wasnt. now i know. However in you-tube its actually more restrictive. keeping comments to a minimum forcing people to PM if they want to drill at you. perhaps this is better for the mods. Im a 50/50 i comment and i post. However, i dont see this as improving the user experience. You guys here seem to go more for the hand waving dismal argument. Not much but repeating talking points that amount to very little. I CAN wait for it to all go wrong. Im trying to not let youtube eat itself. 
 
+Frank Spiers well if you don't understand what an internet toll is, I can't help you... :)

I'm still saying give it time. I think most of them still just haven't figured out the new system. I know a number of people who DO like the new system who are avid YouTube users.
 
erm. flagging spam? why are you considering this a feature youtube was missing?
 
+Robin Gething how is it hand waiving? We're speaking from experience.  It seems the opposite actually. We speak from experience, and you hit us with "But I KNOW it will destroy YouTube because of... reasons.."
 
what? have i just dropped out of the sky? 
go read up again. I make actual factual points based on experience. that's right, i have it too. 

Btw, saying "we're speaking from experience" is pretty much a perfect example of my point.  If only you had spotted it yourself.

"But I KNOW it will destroy YouTube because of... reasons"

how about you look at the reasons. and address them? What you sir, are doing is playing the man and not the ball. bad form. see me after class.
 
+Robin Gething one problem with the old report abuse system was that quite often it simply wouldn't let you.  I don't have the criteria to hand, but in quite a few cases unless you were directly targetted by the spam it wouldn't let you send in the report, for example.  Now anyone can, for any comment.
 
+Paul Brocklehurst ....Google really needs to send out emails to people when they make these changes...I didn't know you could assign Mods to channels now.

...and I bet most of the YouTubers don't either.
 
We also need a way to scroll to the bottom if the comments in the mobile G+ app when threads get this long +Google+
 
Great post +Mike Elgan
You contribute to a better internet posting this!
(Cause we sure hope this will be standarized all over the web).
Trolls eat your hearts out B-) 
 
I love the new Youtube Google Plus integration, I won't be trolled on and insulted again.  I'm too old for that. I've been waiting for a solution for a long time.
 
I just don't want my Google+ identity to blend with my YouTube identity. Not because of my comments but because sometimes I like my videos to be anonymous. 
 
No, no shame. I don't want those identities merging. I also don't want my Amazon wish list merging with my G+ or my Twitter or Facebook identities merging. Or my driver's license or my birth certificate or my dating profiles etc.

Sometimes it's nice to have things separate rather than linked - - especially when the original realms were separate.

I don't like Instagram being linked to Facebook and so I opted to keep those separate, too, even though many of my friends link them. 
 
This is I love G+, no troll, no stupid affliate link advertisement, and also I just hate to see status like 'oh I hate him, My head is hurt, and other useless status you can find at failbook'. I love how I can find good news, knowledge, and engaging in positive comments in G+. 
 
All of this. Everything that has already been said. 
 
there is no sutch thing as google plus fans
 
Yes, there is, I'm always on Google Plus since 2011, I prefer it over Facebook and other networks. I love both Google Plus and Youtube.
 
These comments truly are constructive, and as promised, I see no trolls or otherwise spam based comments here. Awesome.
 
+Mike Elgan What’s Hot is based on your interests, your language, your country, on shared posts itself, shares’ +1 or comments, on post’s +1, among other things I don’t know.

The only thing I don’t understand is why YouTube had this broken comment system? It kept the same comment system since its first release? Google preferred to experiment on Google+, then on Blogger before seeing that Google+ comment system would be really useful to YouTube? What happened?
 
" On YouTube, better comments rise to the top and trollish votes can be voted down " then why can't I vote down your comment?
 
+Lunix Watt Because your opinion is in the minority and because I'm obviously not a troll. 
Andi S
+
2
3
2
 
I'd love to believe that Google would delete the accounts of harassers and trolls, but as a member of a group that discusses G+ harassment, threats, racist comments, misogyny, etc., it takes a LONG time to get a Google account deleted, even with absolutely egregious examples of unwarranted harassment.

Since that was already an existing problem with G+ (and I'm a regular G+ user who generally enjoys the service), I'm concerned that the influx of YouTube users is going to overwhelm the spam/abuse team, and cause responses to become even slower.

I agree that the block/flag/report system is useful, but the statement that troll/abuser accounts will be promptly dealt-with by Google is flat-out incorrect.
 
+Mike Elgan

Lol, most of my friends who use Facebook don't really go on YouTube too much except for watching some cat videos.
I believe most people on Google+ doesn't go onto YouTube as much either, thus making itself a working social network as it is.
Before the integration, many posts about a YouTube video are NOT posted to YouTube, but rather shared under Google+, making Google+ clearly a separate platform.
The problem is, there are more than 1 billion people that use YouTube, and less than 300 million people active out of 540 million "members" of Google+.
Now obviously my friend on Facebook wouldn't want her every comment about a YouTube video to be shown on YouTube when she's only commenting on Facebook. This could be applied to Google+. Posts on Google+ belong to Google+, not YouTube.

What Google did wrong:
The reason why YouTube is so popular is because it's protected by the 1st Amendment: Protects freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of the press, as well as the right to assemble, right to protest, and petition the government. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution It's not that we can say whatever we want without a consequence (Uploaders COULD block certain users in the old system, which means this update was unnecessary), but it's that we can say what we want without any restriction. (Notice Consequences vs. Restrictions)
What this update brought wasn't to bring consequences upon bad users, but rather to apply restriction step by step in order to overlap the freedom of speech.
It might sound dramatic, but hey, did you know Hitler didn't start out becoming a big leader in one day? If you study Psychology, you'll understand foot-in-the-door and how the technique can be applied here.
To put it simply, Google is slowly stripping away your right to freedom of speech. Gradually, it'll strip away your right to freedom of choice as well (in order to post a video, you'll have to do this, and that, and etc.).
While you may call others "idiots" for disagreeing with you, I say you're just agreeing with Google to prohibit freedom of speech, freedom to protest, and freedom to express oneself.

About your opinion:
But here's the thing: His complaints make 100% perfect sense to YouTube fans, and zero sense to Google+ fans
- So basically what this integration does is to cause conflicts within the community. Isn't there enough war in Afghanistan right now? We don't need more war here. Also, there are at least 3 times more YouTube users than there are Google+, just to remind.
The reason is that YouTube-centric people haven't experienced how well Google+ troll- and spam-filtering works yet
- So you're implying YouTube people are either: idiots, and/or trolls. That's a nice message to promote Google+.
As an example, I'm personally in about 2.8 million circles and post publicly every day. Yet I encounter maybe one troll a week in my comments. (The spammers are mostly taken care of by user flagging, so I don't see them much.)
- I could say the same for YouTube comments. Comments are user-moderated, meaning uploaders don't have to do much. People pretty much know what's bad and what's not. Meaning this integration is another pointless update.
This is unimaginable with the old YouTube system
- That is a pretty false claim, as pointed above: comments are user-moderated with the super old and effective "flag as spam" button. I don't get how you could have easily ignored that.
I will demonstrate the power of Google+ comments by asking you to find the personal attacks, trolling, spamming, novels, ASCII crap and all the rest in the comment thread below this post/comment. Do you see it? No, you don't. That's the power of the Google+ commenting system
- In fact, there was none of that in the old comment system as well, so your statement is invalid.
The comment thread you'll see below my post is the quality you can expect in the future after the new system has been in effect over time
- That's rather a subjective claim. Did you know Imgur, a small image sharer site, has a better and easy to navigate comment system?  I can't possibly make senses of all the comments here without having to constantly scrolling up and down rereading every post. In fact, Google+ comment system is extremely old and cluttered. It's almost identical as a ripped off version of Skype or Yahoo chat, which are proven to only be good for group chatting, and not public posting.
1. It doesn't matter if people upload books or movie scripts. It has zero effect on anything. These will sink to the bottom and be ignored, and eventually the trolls will stop bothering. (You can do this on Google+, too, but nobody bothers anymore
- It does have effect. It goes to show how much people hate this new system. Again, freedom of speech and expression.
2. Google has been very good at knocking down accounts that quickly pop up for trolling and spamming. This is a non-issue on Google+, and will become a non-issue on YouTube as the system has its effect over time. The culture of ASCII swastikas and penises emerged out of the old YouTube commenting system. I have never, ever seen these on Google+ because the tools and the use of those tools isolates these trolls and renders them completely unable to have an impact
- In fact, I've seen many well-made ASCII art in the old comment system. I personally think they are pretty cool.
3. Again, the horrible trollish comments are punished, not promoted in the Google+ system. People will flag and block and vote them down -- again, over time. Your concern is that ugly comments rise to the top -- the opposite will happen over time. Google+ comments is the cure for this problem, not the source. (And you should block every user who does any kind of personal attack -- you'll never see them again.)
- Again, this has worked back in the old system. Therefore, this update has once more been proven to be pointless and unnecessary. Not to mention, you CAN'T vote down any comment. You could in the old system, not anymore in the new system, because there is only +1. That would make your statement incorrect.
4. External links are governed under the same system. Abusers will be flagged, blocked, isolated and eventually their accounts deleted. Again, you don't see this stuff happening much on Google+, and eventually you won't see if on YouTube, either
- Why do you keep mentioning this when the old system just works as well as everything you've listed? That's what the "Flag as spam" is for. That's what the "Vote down" button was for. Now you can't downvote a comment anymore, and flagging comments will only make it invisible only to you, not others. You just included a major false information and accusation. (Ability to downvote comment = False information, Old system doesn't work = accusation).
YouTube has the MOST spam and trolls. Google+ has the LEAST. It's not because Google+ people are better -- they're not. It's because the commenting system is better
- Nope. Google+ has the least because its user base count sucks ass compared to YouTube. Think about the ratio again... 300mil:1bil... also, think in term of Microsoft vs. Apple. Why do you think there are so much more virus on PC than an Apple computer? Of course because PC is much more popular, not because it's easier to create a virus. There are still viruses on an Apple machine. It's just that there are rather less because Apple is much less popular than a Microsoft computer.
That means that if there are less trolls on Google+, it's either Google+ is an effective system, or it COULD also mean that Google+ doesn't have the popularity it claims... (which I believe the latter is true).
YouTube commenting is now even better than Google+ for all these issues. On YouTube, better comments rise to the top and trollish votes can be voted down
- Again, you keep saying that comments can be voted down, but I've yet to see comments been voted down, ever... if you vote down a comment, try refreshing the page. Your downvote will disappear into thin air. Please don't put false information please. Don't try to make Google+ look positive when it's not.
The YouTubers who embrace the new system, and actively block trolls, will eventually find their comments with ZERO TROLLS
- This is the part where I don't get. Why do you keep mentioning trolls? And from what I see, your mentality tells that you see everyone on YouTube as a troll, and only people agreeing with you are not trolls. Also, there's not just one way to express a feeling or an opinion. If the way I'm expressing my feeling towards you may offend you, does that mean I'm a troll? No. It just means that I'm different.
For example, if I go to a US veteran soldiers video on YouTube, I'm supposed to show respects for those who've passed away, right? However, I see someone in the comment saying, "Respects to those who've passed away to protect this country, especially Vietnam war and Iraq."
I would feel the need to go down and correct him by saying, "Not really. Vietnam war was an ugly war."
Then he would find my comment offensive and delete my post just because I simply state an ugly truth. (Why I know Vietnam war was wrong? Because I'm from Vietnam and I learn my history.) Nowhere in my statement have I once showed any disrespect to the soldiers who have participated in the war with Vietnam. However, it's important not to mistake respects to soldiers (which is something good) with Vietnam war (which is something bad).
This is a reference video if you think I based my claim on nothing: http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/investigation/vietnam-war-diary/ (just so it's easier to understand from a US perspective. I can't translate the whole history book from Vietnamese into English.)
Also, how can you know if some comments are mistaken as spams based on block words? For example, if I go onto a cat video and say, "OMG THAT SO FUCKING CUTE", and the system recognizes the word "fuck" as a spam and blocks me, then the video just loses a potential viewer because it didn't allow me to have a voice. If you restrict your audience to have a voice, it's obviously understandable that you'll gradually lose your audience over time, because, freedom of speech is essentially the first amendment, and being able to express oneself is the most important experience everyone should have, psychologically speaking.

About Google+ experience: So, you may wonder what my opinion on Google would be. Here they are:
The positives:
- Editable doments comments (so no more mistakes I guess? Also more time writing comments that nobody on the internet will ever read. I'm such a no-lifer...)
- Word formating .
- URL (funny because back in the old old YouTube you were able to post links, so this can't really be called a "new" feature).
- Character unlimited (this really is a bad idea rather than good, but at least thanks to that I'm able to post this comment...)
- More ASCII arts possible since you can have unlimited lines now. (yea I think ASCII is pretty cool.)
The negatives:
- Forced integration. This is basically the worse point as well. This dismisses every positive things about this new system.
- Half-ass 2-level threading comments. Even the pretty hard-to-read comments on deviantArt are a lot easier to follow. Now reddit has it the 2nd best comment system. The 1st slot goes to... imgur. Seriously, imgur has one of the most organized and well-programmed comment system I've ever encountered. Not to mention it's extremely easy to follow conversations, as well as eye-candy because the overall background is black, making your eyes feel a WHOLE lot more relaxing when reading! (Now that you've mentioned it, I forgot YouTube has taken away the best thing ever about this site: customization of your channel.)
The mentioning system is TERRIBLE and doesn't help with replying AT ALL. In fact, if I was to try and find the comment you're replying to right now, I have no way to find where that comment went, unless I have to CTRL+F and type that person's name to search. THEN I'll have to scroll down to where your comment was to continue reading. This comment system is extremely unorganized and very unappealing. It's like an utterly  ugly mess of incomplete assignments and papers from school thrown all over my bedroom, and I have to read through each and every single one of them with no way to sort them out.
- So what if I don't want to read my video comments on Google+? There's nothing I can do with it. That's an ugly move to try to get more traffics onto Google+. I'm on for YouTube, why would I need to go to an entirely different website to read comments on a video on YouTube?
- The UI on Google+ is extremely terrible. It's like they take a little bit from every social website and put them all in here and call it Google+. Seriously, if Google+ tries to copy Facebook, at least make it useful. The way posts are viewed on Google+ is extremely cluttered compared to Facebook, and harder to navigate. Think about it, the reason why Facebook has this interface is because of Timeline. You have the option to to view a full-blown post, and once you come there, you can see the post fully taking advantage of the screen's resolution (wide, short screen), where as Google+ doesn't even take advantage of what EVERY COMPUTER SCREEN RESOLUTION HAS but instead it goes vertical (thing, high screen), which is only useful if you rotate your computer screen from landscape to portrait mode (which I believe almost nobody uses).
Unless I switch to portrait mode, there are always A LOT of negative space on Google+, and it's killing my eyes with their "beautiful" gray background that I have NO ABSOLUTE WAY to change that.
So basically: ugly background, ugly interface, cluttered post structure, inability to customize  your G+ page/profile background/look.
So basically it gives you ZERO tools to customize your contents and a whole lot of tools to moderate people. Why should I need that? What I care is what your contents are, and what people think of. Basically it's like the old YouTube where visiting a person's channel actually mean something and not just a boring white background and an abandoned discussion area.
- Not to mention in the old comment system, it's pretty easy to know what people think of a video just by taking a quick look, scroll down and you have 2 top comments on what most people agree on, and then newest comments to know what's relevant chronologically ALL IN ONE PAGE. There is no extra clicking and scrolling. Now with the new comment system, you'll have to do more and watch less.
- Another lame thing about this comment system which I'm not entirely sure if it's a feature or a bug, but child comments of a thread will automatically expand once you click on "View all replies". What if someone types a long ass paragraph? I don't want to read all of them. (Example, this one).
- The USEFUL "Show comment" button is now gone. To be honest, the "Show comment" system was actually more convenient and useful than this thread system, because it allows you to find which comment you're replying to with a click. Now you have to CTRL+F and then scroll back to your comment and then CTRL+F again to find what he said, or she.

The neutrals:
- #Hashtag I don't know if I should hate this, but it's rather subjective. I don't mind hashtag, but I can understand if some people don't want those social network bullcrap forced upon them.
- +Username which is pretty easily abuse. You can actually mention everyone in the entire Google+ to view your comment without actually having anything relevant to the content. Given that the Google+ community is rather a small portion of the internet, now once it's integrated into YouTube, it's gonna face a lot of damage. Then again, the only time I saw this done once was on deviantArt where one person has successfully mentioned over 700k people on the entire website. (Which I think is impressive).

Now that you've read til this point (I assume), congrats. Here's a reward 'smooch'
Overall, I have not much against Google+. However, my experience wasn't that great, and Google+ needs to improved a WHOLE LOT MORE before it's qualified to be integrated into YouTube.
Right now it's terrible, yet I don't understand why Google pushes it so hard. I thought Google was a great company, yet I don't see them taking great things that work and apply to their products, yet they are more like forcing their experiment onto us while treating their audience like lab rats.
Tho I myself hate Google+, I understand that Google is a big company and they aren't gonna listen to a dissatisfied customer, therefore I'm gonna give them some of my expectation on how they should improve their terrible product Google+.
- The top drop-down home button is a terrible position and if they want to make it mandatory, they should learn from Microsoft Windows 8/8.1. If they want the whole drop-down menu to take up the whole left side of the page, then why not just make the menu to integrate to the left side rather than on the "top" left "corner"? It's rather inconvenient having to travel up and down, up and down.
- Same with the hangout button. Just integrate it into the right site.
- If you don't want to integrate those buttons to either side, then MAKE USE OF THE NEGATIVE SPACE if you ain't using it all the time. I mean, the moment you have your browser on full-screen mode, it's gonna kill your mind when no matter how much you try to resize the browser, you still have to read all the comments in a tiresome scrolling manner.
- If it's the same scroll and read attitude, except you'd have to scroll a lot more to read, Why not just make it simple like imgur too? Click to show replies to a comment. And click to comletely collapse all the replies once for all, not just one reply left like the current system.
- Make the "Collapse this comment" or "read less" button on top of a comment, or at least have a button to roll back to the beginning of the comment in case you're reading a long-ass comment (like the one you're reading right now).
- Allow the option to read comments in the inbox. The inbox was a whole lot more organized and easier to navigate than the new Google+ page. In fact, the reason why most people hate this integration is because of how hard and inconvenient it is to navigate around the site even with those computer nerds like me. Now reading comments has become such a chore that I doubt any YouTuber would bother interacting with their audience, or in other words, replying to their comments anymore. Or they can, but would rather use other sites such as Reddit or Imgur.

What Google can do:
- They can either improve their product immediately to cover every problem they've caused and to give ease of use to all of their users, or
- They can revert back to the old YouTube comment, which I believe is much easier to do and will also make A LOT of people happy.
Either way, I believe the best thing isn't now, but rather how they should change the way they carry out their service:
- Give their users base a chance to try out change -> Survey or Votes -> if most Liked or just Neutral (not either liked or disliked) -> proceed to carry out update.
-> if disliked or most disagreed with -> revert back to try another solution.
This way everyone is happy.
 
+Mike Elgan
Funny. Ever since the merger, I see bob comments and ascii art all over youtube channels that try to voice angry opinions about the matter. Just shows that the rage gathers where it is supposed to be. and these angry content creators expect a fix when they are brewing the anger ......................................... ==|||

I barely see such things on channels that don't bother with such nonsense.
 
+Josh Ray firstly thanks for taking the time to give a detailed and well thought response, and demonstrating that allowing long comments has purpose beyond silly ASCII art.  
I'm still working through it, but as a starter "YouTube is protected by the 1st Amendment" - are you sure about that?
 
+Josh Ray some other bits.  
"In fact, there was none of that [personal attacks, trolling] in the old comment system as well, so your statement is invalid."

Perhaps not on the videos you watch, but cmon.  Isn't it widely accepted that youtube comments are a wretched pit of racism, abuse and trolling?  If not, how would e.g. this comic even make sense? 
http://www.shinyshiny.tv/xkcd_youtube-thumb-430x477.jpg


You can vote down comments, but only on youtube, not on google+, and there is no longer a count displayed for 'thumbs down'.  It is still a signal used to determine comment prominence though.

And I'm afraid I disagree with your idea of letting users vote on the change, simply for one reason - far too many people are unwilling to actually try it for a decent amount of time to get to figure out the details and then vote. (this is true of most changes on platforms incidentally; if Facebook asked its users if they should keep or revert every change they made we'd still have Facebook from 2007)
 
+Josh Ray At least you're enjoying the removal of the 500-character content limit, apparently.
 
+Josh Ray No, Google+ passed YouTube in the number of users about a year ago. Google+ is now much larger than YouTube. 
 
+Josh Ray OK, I stopped reading your novel when you claimed that YouTube never had personal attacks, trolling, spamming, etc. That's just absurd. Just Google "YouTube comments" and see the perfect consensus that YouTube comments have always been a sewer. 
 
This entire thread is proof that the new comments work a thousand times better lol. 
 
+Josh Ray, the First Amendment applies to governmental restrictions on speech. It doesn't apply to your use of a company's resources to exercise your expression. That means, that by using YouTube you agree to their terms of service. If they don't want you to say "clown" they probably (should) have the right to restrict you.

But, for the most part US government can't restrict your speech on YouTube whereas YouTube/Google can.

Sadly, the federal and state governments are encroaching on that with hate-speech legislation.

My opposition to such legislation shouldn't be misconstrued to mean that I condone such speech. 
 
+Mike Elgan
What I meant was that the old system with one button "Flag as spam" works fine to keep the spam, hateful, and personal attacks free just as much as this new system, therefore making the reason for the update invalid.
Sorry if I didn't state my opinion more clear.

(Not to mention now you have to click (menu), click (Option), scroll (choose option), click (ok), click (ok) which contains 5 steps. Back in the old system you just have to click (menu), click (flag as spam) which are 2  steps.)
(Now people are less encouraged to flag such comments as spams.)

Oh, and in the old system, there wasn't novels and ASCII, so that's a pretty false accusation there.

Btw, let's say I was replying to someone poorly addressing a problem on a video, so I said, "I hate your way of addressing the problem, it should have been done a little more [...]" as a pretty valid comment.
However, "I hate you" is included in the block words, and thus my comment is now hidden in the thousands of other "spam" comments. Is that a great thing?
 
+Josh Ray the 'mark as spam' etc options are now attached to a whole Google account, not just a YouTube account. It's a much bigger pain to recreate a whole Google account and be forever switching in and out of them than it was to just make a new YouTube account if you got banned from a channel for spamming. I agree it isn't as easy to flag comments as spam, but you could argue that's a good thing - people are less likely to just mark stuff they don't agree with as 'spam' as it's so easy. Another upside of those extra clicks is that is is now much easier to differentiate between spam and actual harassment/racism/hate speech etc. This lets channel owners and YouTube admins deal with more serious problems first which can only be a good thing.

How well the new tools, shadow-banning/block lists etc perform depends how they're used by the channel owners.
 
+Josh Ray as I understand it, comments that meet the blacklist criteria, are held for approval, rather than blasted into oblivion, so the creator has an opportunity to review them. And their blacklist.
 
It is so good to see a flow to the comments, even in the face of controversy and possible trolling. +Mike Elgan is contributing to the context of the video and generating a learning experience. Of course, this is his style, and now more people are getting to know this about him. Good stuff.
 
+Mike Elgan (or anybody):  For how long have we had the option to choose the most recent comments on YouTube versus the most popular? Was this feature pre- #youtubecomments  or did it roll out with the integration or was it added later as a response about certain (legitimate) concerns with the new commenting system? 
 
+Kevin Shutt - it was definitely there at least since the G+ comments change (it didn't come later), not 100% sure about before it.
 
I'm pretty sure by books and movie scripts he meant really long posts like this one. 
 
"The reason is that YouTube-centric people haven't experienced how well Google+ troll- and spam-filtering works yet."

How well? Do you have a clue how many innocent, intelligent, on topic comments and answers to the questions are marked as spam on you tube these days? Do you consider reply to question "who the singer is ", "This wonderful singer is X" spam? Do you consider reply to "this is the best performance ever": "ever is a long time, this singer is wonderful, but in this my favorite is Y" where both singers are world famous and Y is now dead spam? The new spam filter has a false positive rate that would be considered unacceptable anywhere. If this were an anti-virus program it would've broken your computer by saying half of your files are infected when they aren't.  I've never posted spam in my entire life. I don't sell anything. Yet during last couple of weeks I've been unable to reply to people who had questions on classical music videos (hardly the type of videos that get a lot of spam), discussing song's history ("German is the original language of Schubert Ave Maria. It's real title is Ellens dritter Gesang and it comes from a cycle of songs to poem "Lady of the Lake" by Walter Scott" -- google ghosted this comment. Yes, and they don't tell you about it, you think your comment gets posted, and then you find out it wasn't when you log off since it's only visible to you.
 
Just to add - there are many threads on google help forum about this issue. Both people who have never posted spam in their life and who have many of their comments blocked now and video owners who are overwhelmed with how many comments get marked as spam, both complain about it.
They are trying to use a computer for natural language processing which is something the computer is really not good for. For example, they may see "Lady of the Lake" mentioned twice in two different replies and decide that the repetition of the expression must be spam. A human moderator would've noticed that it's perfectly normal to have a mention of the poem where the words of the song came from (as well as the language) on the video. Also, in you tube environment, the conversations are fleeting. A question who the singer is may have already been answered, but by now, that reply is no longer visible, so the question is asked again by another person who I think also deserves a reply. There are other cases of comments marked as spam apparently in random. In all cases, the video owners often don't even know about the issue or have no time and if they do, they don't find the process of saying something isn't spam easy.

At any rate, false positives are usually considered a really bad problem. It's very frustrating to spend time formulating an intelligent reply in say musical or scientific discussion and think it's posted, only to find out later by accident e.g. by looking at the video when you aren't logged on or when someone else tells you that it was never posted. A lot of people (I can show a google help discussion on that) would much rather see a few stupid spam comments than have their discussions ruined.

How can you say the spam filter is good when it mis-identifies good comments as spam probably more than 50% of the time. At least, a lot of people complain about this and many more people don't even know their comments were never posted because of the deceptive manner in which it's done.
 
+Ayoub Khote
What if the fix is worse than a cure? See my comments about false positive and please tell me how the comment examples I gave you are spam? Want another one? Someone said he was an atheist and liked Schubert Ave Maria. I replied that it's great art, work of human genius, and how one doesn't need to believe in Venus to admire the painting of Venus. My comment was "ghosted". These are just my examples, people have had it happened all over. Google for "you tube comment ghosting help forum" - you'll see several discussions of the subject from both the users and video owners.
 
+Koshka Mashka - The system is constantly learning... Consider that YouTube comments (going back years) have been merged as a new data set, and the system is erring on the side of caution. As the comments get "unflagged" the system will learn.

From a purely Google+ perspective, I get maybe five false positives in a year.

Keep giving the system good information (flagging and unflagging) and it'll improve :)
 
Just to illustrate to what I said. Google "comment ghosting: test video" and read the help forum. To test the google new spam filter you love so much someone posted a test video to verify how many normal comments from innocent users get marked as spam. During 2 days 25 comments - about a third of all comments posted were marked as spam. None of these comments was spam. One case when someone put a text about money that one would think spam filter would catch was accepted fine. This is a nice illustration of what happens on you tube now. People are unable to post comments all over, likely thousands, probably more than that given the rate at which comments posted on test video were marked as spam because many people aren't even aware of the problem, they think their comments were posted. Interestingly duplicate comments were allowed.

How do you expect video owners, many of them have day jobs to approve all of these comments? Many video owners don't even care. Besides, by the time the spam filters learn anything, google would change the algorithm and we'll be back where we started.

"erring on the side of caution" usually means protecting the innocent not catching the guilty at the expense of hurting several innocents. Google punishes the innocent, causes stress and frustration to thousands of users who feel like their beating their head against the wall unable to reply to people, unable to continue already started discussion when the first reply gets accepted, but the subsequent reply doesn't in order to maybe catch one guilty. Spam doesn't cause nearly as much frustration - it's easy to skip over a message or ignore the message. Bob comments were at worst mildly annoying at best amusing, but this ruins the experience to many users.
 
What you fail to realize +Koshka Mashka, is that most of the spam-flagged content is flagged by other users, not by Google itself.
There's virtually no chance a decent comment gets flagged automatically. I think what's happening on that video is either trolls flagging posts, people posting crappy and/or spammy posts, or a malformed block word in the video creators own settings.
 
+Willy André Bergstrøm Really? If this is the case, how come there are multiple threads on the Google help forum from video owners complaining about good comments marked as spam on their videos? Search on you tube for the test video that one of the top contributors on the help forums created to test the issue. Search for "comments ghosting test video" - it's not the title, but it'll give you the video as a top choice. The settings was to approve everything. The video owner then posted the picture of all the comments flagged in the help forum. Within the first 2 days 25 comments were flagged, about a third of all comments posted. None of them were spam, but when someone actually tested trying to post real spam, it was not flagged. Check out both the video and the help forum thread.
 
+Willy André Bergstrøm
Actually I referenced the test video above, but you didn't bother to look it up. If you did, and actually checked the information in the Google help forum, you'd not claimed how there is little chance of good comments being flagged.
 
So now that this is long over, and Google was clearly right, and YouTube is a thousand times better now, do people feel stupid?
 
+Scott Wilson
In order to get an answer to this question I recommend searching YouTube for "Comment ghosting test video" and read the description. If you follow the link to the google help forum referenced in the description, you'll see people discussing how many good, innocent, non-spam, relevant comments get 'ghosted' today. You'll see references to video owners complaining that they regularly have to approve many good comments marked as spam that people with upwards of 200 or so popular videos have no time to approve. Most give up, so the users have their conversation ruined.

There are pictures in this help forum showing comments that were flagged as spam on the test video. There is no system. In the past I had comments answering the question "who is this singer" with the name ghosted, I had replies like "Montserrat Caballe singing this aria, but in this aria my favorite is Victoria de los Angeles" (both very famous singers, so no, I was not "promoting" Victoria de lost Angeles, I don't even know if she is still alive). I had this comment ghosted. How is this spam? Now, to  be fair, I had less of a problem with this during last couple of weeks than before, so maybe something was fixed, but a lot of people are still having this problem.

Is YouTube better? I like some things - comment threading, ability to post links. But ghosting of innocent comments kills the whole experience. Previously, it took me maybe a couple of seconds to ignore spam comments which on videos I attend - opera, cats - weren't that prevalent. These days I have to have two browsers open so that I can check if the comment I took time formulating was even posted. People had their conversation ruined. So what would you prefer - scroll over a few spam messages or spend time formulating a well thought meaningful intelligent reply only to find out that it's not seen by anybody but you?
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