How Much Do U.S. Corporations Really Pay in Taxes?
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- +Bob Grant said, "I am not a Marxist by any means" It's funny how you say that and then go on to defend Marx and espouse his ideas. I am sure it is just a coincidence that it's "personal opinion, based on my thinking through of the logical outcome of a radical freemarket economy."
If you think Capitalism is such a failed concept you should try explaining it to China. They followed the way of Marx and socialism for most of the 20th century and it led to death by starvation for 50+ million people among other calamities. In the late 80's they decided to let people own property and removed many of the Marx/socialist inspired government controls on peoples lives. In a period of 15 years they lifted six hundred million Chinese people out of abject poverty.
And Bob, how is pointing out the ENVY component a psychological ploy, but when you ascribe it to GREED it is not a psychological ploy?
Greed is what we accuse people of when they want the rights to their own property. When someone has worked hard for something and they want to keep it they are accused of greed. It is the easiest thing in the world to accuse someone of because we all know for a fact that you must have some component of greed in order to keep yourself alive. So you are stooping to the grade school level when you accuse people of greed.
Envy is what people are doing when they claim the right to OTHER PEOPLE"S property! It is valid to point out the improperty of envy. This is NOT a psychological ploy. You don't like it being pointed out because you realize you have no way to justify your envy. I can understand that myself. But don't fool yourself into thinking that greed is a valid accusation and for some unnamed reason envy is not.Feb 23, 2012
- "corporations have to produce greater and greater profits. Eventually, the only way to do that is to pay lower and lower wages, and to charge higher and higher prices. This is already happening. Eventually the lower and middle classes will be squeezed out of the market, and quite frankly, they will have to revolt."
Yeah that's not from Marx at all[?]Feb 23, 2012
- "6) More and more dollars are owned by fewer and fewer people."
This is the concentration of wealth myth. It can happen, but only by government enforcement. We complain about the so-called robber barons but want to return to the system of real barons. And wait till you see some of the castles they built.
The concentration of wealth is not caused by trade. Look at China. They are buying golden toilets and million dollar Rolls Royce. They are becoming our customers. So that concentration of wealth Marx warned you about... it's spreading.
Just to clarify what I mean by that, Marx claimed that certain market forces would cause wealth to accumulate in fewer and fewer hands. He just didn't account for about a dozen other market forces. People don't care. They're to eager for an excuse to loot the filthy rich. But there's about a million times as many filthy rich people now as there were during Marx's day. And the poor in Western countries are not nearly as poor as the rural poor in Europe in his day. The great mass of people benefit from free, unrestricted, ungoverned, unregulated trade. A homeless guy by my home can swipe my card on his phone if I don't have change. It costs him nearly nothing.
So the problem, Bob, is that anti-capitalist tendencies don't just hurt you. You should stop being so selfish and greedy and just thinking about your six figure income only. Think about all the poor and homeless people that benefit from Capitalism. Don't send them back in to the past, the dark ages where no one was allowed to get too rich (except the state). The poor people won't survive the transition.Feb 23, 2012
- Mark, this will be my last post here as you have proven to me once again that conservatives eschew logical thought and facts, and can only rely on emotionality, dogma and personal attacks on character. You know absolutely nothing about me, yet you are absolutely convinced that you know everything about me. That is truely sad. "ENVY, ENVY, ENVY, Blah, blah, blah, Marxist, Marxist.... Great arguement.Feb 23, 2012
Liberals live on emotional ploy and arguments justified by unsubstantiated facts. Nice try to flip it around. Envy was not the argument as much as a description that can bring meaning to why people would hate other people for their success for financial situation. Do you have a better justification for the liberal class warfare going on today?Feb 24, 2012
- I know very little about you and didn't presume to. I never ascribed jealousy to you personally. I only addressed the policy you espoused. You repeatedly said that the culprit was greed. This is what I attacked, not you who I don't know. You seem to have all the pieces, you know that economic arguments should be impersonal and principle oriented, and that personal, ad hominem attacks, and emotions should not be the basis for the decision making process. But you seem to be having some trouble putting all the pieces together. And then you accuse me of each of those things.
This is the sloppy reasoning that, unfortunately, so many of us were raised on. It is not the path to a newer brighter future. We will not arrive at a healthy economic system or a rational moral code using these tactics. It is this type of reasoning that lets you go on at length with moral indignation and accusations of "GREED, GREED, GREED", but then lets your argument fall to pieces when I raise the ugly specter of ENVY.
This is the VERY ISSUE that divides our nation and threatens to throw us into a decade of instability or worse. There is no mechanism, institution, or foreordination that will prevent this from happening. We have to discourse and chose.Feb 24, 2012