Shared publicly  - 
 
This is a really interesting Reddit AMA: much more so than the Obama one that got so much press, although they are obviously both related to the upcoming US elections.

Mormonism as a religion is a fairly close second to the Scientologists in the race to "Batshit Crazy", and quite frankly, it's not brought up enough in politics because of idiotic politically correct fears of religious criticism.

What is interesting is also that the whole "closet atheist" like in the AMA (or at least "doubting") seems to not be unusual among Mormons. I've met people like thism who basically cannot admit even to their family that they aren't believers, but are then able to talk to me just because they know I'm atheist.

So despite that apparent widespread acknowledgement that there's some serious crazy stuff there based on the rantings on a convicted con-man, the social bonds seem to hold it together fairly closely.

Now, any religion tends to be more about the social bonds than the actual belief, but I think Morminism shows that more than most just due to how obviously ridiculous some of it is, and because the history is in fairly well-documented historical times.

Older religions have had more time to adjust their crazy (or bring it mainline, so that it isn't quite as obviously ridiculous, because you don't think about it)

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/z6ufq/iama_hardcore_mormon_who_will_tell_you_what_we/
1928
463
Alice Zahi's profile photoCraig Mccleskey's profile photosebastian sanchez's profile photoDavis Claypool's profile photo
474 comments
Kade Price
+
11
1
2
1
 
The article was written by someone who said they are a "Hardcore Mormon" but that he doesn't believe. That's like saying I'm a hardcore linux user but I use windows and only have linux on a VM. What he says is not true but his version. 
 
The defense against stupid is critical thinking. Teaching more CT would bring more rationality to debates.
 
There are actually a number of Christians (Protestant and Catholic) that are not really 'believers' either.  Like Mormons, it is part of their family history and they simply don't think enough to do something else.  
+Jem Matzan true, I have plenty of stupid patterns; but I don't ry to convince everyone else to believe too.  Ohhh, wait a minute ... Linux, MLHIM, well just a couple.  :-)
 
Interesting that his handle is *EXMO*captainmoroni 
 
You tell 'em Linus!
 
The Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita based Hinduism is the only religious philosophy that I know of based on the inner exploration of consciousness on a solitary basis (in meditation).  In that way it is an exception to most religions which usually have ridiculous notions but are held together by community.  Buddhist practices that are based on meditation would be exceptions as well.
 
Wonder if there is any effect to raising large groups to revere and celebrate the covering up of blatant lie after lie after lie...
A. David
+
1
2
3
2
 
Any religion is based on Faith. Belief in a magical world. "Pensée Magique" in French.
Modern equivalent is either TV or Prozac. But Karl knew that waaay before I. 
 
I'm not surprised. Most organized religion seems bats*&^ crazy. That's why I don't judge anyone based on their religious beliefs.

I don't see how it's related to the upcoming Presidential election though.
 
I think anyone who believes in spiritual redemption via blood sacrifice to be bat shit crazy.
 
I think it's funny that we talk about Mormonism when the GOP selects one, but it's never been a topic with Harry Reid - leader in the DNC for many, many years.
 
"any religion tends to be more about the social bonds than the actual belief" couldn't have gotten it better.
 
Mormonism is simply one of the newest products available to those looking for a system that explains the world to them and gives them comfort when the world seems cold, indifferent and cruel.

I understand the comfort a belief system provides when times are dark and one is in emotional pain. Religion in general is as tempting during our time of despair as a glass of water is to thirst.
 
I agree Mormonism<Scientology=Batshit Crazy10/96754+Mormonism ... Atheist here and proud ... yes that equation may be wrong btw but you get it ...
 
+Kade Price  I thought of it more like "I pretend to be a hardcore linux fan but i'd rather use windows."  If he used windows and his family saw, he'd be kicked out forever.
 
The discussion is beyond the cover story, already.
 
+James O'Brien It's still a big pile of dogmas and ancient systems without any core update for many centuries. In Hindusim/Buddhism/Yoga you're not just told "look into yourself how you deem right", they prescribe how you should do it and what awaits you and how it is called and what it all means and how it has to work. And it is passed by tradition like christian, muslim or any other big religions, just not in the western world where it is perceived as alternative.
 
Seperation of 'church' and state would seem to be the only sane option. By which I mean a person's faith should be totally seperated from their public office position. If they don't feel that's possible they should step down.
 
By traditional, accepted theological definition, the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka, "mormon church") is definitely a cult, as is scientology....and I agree completely that the teachings/beliefs within the depths of both the mormon church & the church of scientology are the creation of flim-flam men(at best)  who were lucky enough to find enough gullible sheep along the way to propagate the respective flocks....oh, and profit along the way....A glaring difference today, of course, is that one has Tom Cruise....and the other Mitt.  Thankfully, neither rank anywhere in my hierarchy of importance.  It's all engrams & peep stones, as far as I'm concerned!
 
This is going to be more explosive than BSD is dying...
 
Thanks, +Linus Torvalds. I just learned that mormonism is the same that all christian religions. Just some little modifications, but at the end is 95% the same.
The funny thing is that mormons think catholics are crazy, and they think mormons are crazy.
 
Would we have different values without religion??
 
LEMME BELIVE WHAT I WANT TO AND SHUT THE FREAKING HECK UP! You DON'T have to impose on us or bash on us, I mean, at least WE'VE been told to respect all of you guys and let you believe what you want to, but every other Religion teaches to HATE US?!

Simply stated; Shut Up, and leave your rant out of others lives.
 
+Richard Clinker I agree, I was talking about that the other day after seeing that Texas judge talking about civil war. I basically said ... judges should be like scientists of the law and have absolutely no theist in put ... fat chance on seeing that though.
 
The difference between a Cult and a Religion is Real Estate.
--Frank Zappa
 
+Riya I Being Atheist is knowing that religions are lies because they are. Only an absolute retard would belive in something so heinously contradictive as a religion. Aparently you don't understand that Atheists become what they are because they are the people that actually look into religion enough to realize that it is fake. Only idiots that take everything that they are told as truth without any shred of research or proof will stay religious.

Just a little tip for you though, you might not want to post religious "believe in what I believe in" rantings on an Atheist post. There is nothing worse for society than people like you, the people that try to force their beliefs down everyone elses' throats. Do you see Atheists gathering together to scheme on how they can force people to not believe?
 
It's called RESPECT! Something the vast majority of Redetitors have forgotten about. The "cool" accepted trend on Reddit is to:
Bash anything Apple.
Bash anyone who agrees with religion.
Bash anyone who is against atheism.
Bash people with conservative beliefs
Bash bash bash
And look at lolcats!

Good thing there's room for differing opinions... Er... Unless you disagree with the above mentioned topics, than your just batshit crazy!


But let's talk about tolerance? Lol
 
Atheist = religion troll. Prove me wrong.
 
Mormonism ; Just like any other religion; IT'S MAN MADE !
 
I'll never understand why otherwise rational people spend their time trying to discredit religion. Anything that is faith-based can't be proven or disproven so what is the point in making it an argument? 
 
Brian Dalton, the creator of "Mr Deity", is an ex-Mormon. He spoke at the AAI '09 conference about his experience. He said you have to write a letter, and they're well known for not letting people get out easily. But apparently he had been asking so many difficult questions that they didn't even bother :)

Mr. Deity & Cast at the AAI 2009 Conference
 
Adam Webster, I DONT CARE about my social standing on G+ when it comes to religion.
 
+John MacDonald Yes, better values. And more human unity.
+Spencer Lay Nobody is asking you to stop believing what you believe. I don't think anybody cares. You can mute the post if you feel like crying.
+Phillip Thomas 1/10 with your trolling attempt.
 
There's something to be said for making a religion so crazy that no one can seriously believe it - because that does emphasize the social bonds.

Cf. the Broadway musical, "The Book of Mormon".
 
+Linus Torvalds  I'm disappointed.  Why does everyone always ask non or ex-mormons about mormonism.  If you really want to know the truth about mormons why not ask a practicing mormon? I never understand it when people do that.  I just lost so much respect for you.  
 
A person's actions speak louder than their professed religion. My acid tests is: Will this person serve the people of this country or serve their church/religion before the people of the United States of America. If not, lead a church/religion, not a country of people with  a multitude of beliefs.
 
And Tyson the same thing could be said about that type of thinking.

Look up a few words...

Hate
Devision
Bigotry
Tolerance

One day it will make sense, till than keep pushing you one side with zero
Room for differing opinions. 
Jon Ogden
+
4
8
9
8
 
+Linus Torvalds, there's no question there's plenty wrong throughout Mormon history (as there's plenty wrong throughout all of history), but as a practicing Mormon, I can tell you that I'm probably not too different from you—trying to make sense of a confusing world, realizing that I haven't figured out the answers to life's big, ongoing questions.
 
+Linus Torvalds I have always respected your accomplishments, but after reading this post, my respect for you has decreased substantially.
 
+Nathan Gibbons I'm sure he feels the pain of not having your respect. I mean, I'm sure he doesn't have the respect of anyone. Also, will you ask a man under the effect of drugs if they are nice? Or would you believe more on what does he think about drugs after their effect wears off?
 
"Milk before Meat" is a common saying among the brethren. Basically, we only tell non-members and prospective converts the easy, simple, and normal stuff. We are strongly discouraged from saying anything controversial or hardcore that might prevent them from being baptized. Eventually, new converts are slowly introduced down the rabbit hole of Mormonism to more and more strident teachings and practices.
permalinkparentreportreply
 
Way back if we recall our history lessons, early explorers came here so they can escape religious persecution. Why the heck are we bringing up religion when it comes to the election?! Hope my jibberish made sense.
 
+Riya I The religious are defending their religious stance ... Im defending the fact that their stance has nothing to stand on.
 
All religions are batshit crazy - conversations with an imaginary friend.
 
+Tyson Kemp Nathan said that why don't you ask mormon things to an active mormon, rather than asking them to an ex-mormon. I compare religion with drugs (altering people psychologically).
 
Actually just by saying your a Mormon is wrong, actually you are suppose to refer yourself to non members as a latter day saint

Study what you talk about before just saying anything
 
Mormonism (Romney) and Agnosticism (Obama) are both rooted in Humanism. Just depends on whose brand of Humanism you prefer.
 
Mormons do refer to all previous active members as members, although not practicing.  It's all about numbers.
 
Some have used faith to impose on others,to dominate,to persecute
 
I think within Religion standards, Mormonism isn't "Batshit crazy". When you really think about it.
 
This has turned into an atheist fanboi thread, a somewhat off-topic, back-slapping, we're all brothers in wisdom jam. Did I yawn? I did!
 
"Our country was built on religious freedom"...tell that to the Native Americans...
 
Linus is brave to use his standing in American society to try and question a religion in a society where religions are beyond question. Us in the rest of the world are batshit scared that a man who clearly has been an advocate of a religion whose beliefs are so patently based on stuff made up by a convicted fraudster is potentially going to be put in charge of the only superpower left with the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet. 
 
Religion and Faith mainly on individual.How we use it to connect with others
 
Damn. Removed. I was really looking forward to reading it, too. sigh
 
Atheism is also a religion for the simple fact that they also have a faith in something they believe in

#Atheistfail
 
mormon, moron, wheres the difference? ... okay, not very nice... 
My motto: Believe what you want, but don't spread your belief, don't even talk about your belief in my presence. EOD. (End Of Discussion)
 
+duane attaway Nice ... I was conversing last night about how early European settlers were worse than Hitler/Nazis because the actually accomplished what they set out to do ... genocide the entire population ... ex. so little Native Americans the population will disappear VS. plenty of Jews ...
 
Mormonism (Romney) and Agnosticism (Obama) are both Humanist at their core. Just depends on whose brand of Humanism you prefer.
 
It's a belief of faith... how is that different from a religion?
 
See just like religion, atheism has a I'm right you're wrong sentiment
 
+Will Kriski  actually, atheism is a religion, by virtue of the fact that atheists believe there to be no god.  It requires faith as it cannot be proven (in either direction).  The lack of faith in either direction would be agnosticism. 
 
Even if you believe in nothing that honestly still is something you are believing in
 
For those who missed the original post:

IAmA hardcore Mormon who will tell you what we actually believe rather than skirting around the issues.

"I was raised as a hardcore Mormon in the Mormon Corridor. I have been surrounded by Mormons for my entire life and have dedicated myself to extensive study of the LDS church's beliefs. I know more about the LDS church than most.
Technically, I am a closet atheist and I no longer believe in the Mormon Church. However, I must pretend to be a hardcore Mormon so that my family and friends don't disown me. For the purposes of this AMA, however, I will answer as a fundie Mormon really would.
In the church and the Mormon Missionary Training Center, Mormons are actually taught how to avoid talking about any of their controversial beliefs. They tell Mormons what to say to prospective converts in order to make the church look better and how to avoid answering hard questions. If you ever wondered where Mitt Romney learned to be so vague and evasive about hard issues, it was the LDS church.
Some Mormons begin to believe the new Disney version of the church's theology and beliefs and never even learn what the hardcore Mormons still think. Most still think some of these backward and dangerous things, but will never say so to a "non-member." They actually have a doctrine called "milk before meat" which justifies lying to non-members and new converts in order to keep them in the church until they can spring the more hardcore stuff on them when they are trapped.
Disclaimer: I am not FLDS or part of a polygamist splinter group. I am fundie from the same LDS church as Mitt Romney.
TLDR: I will not bs you and will say what hardcore Mormons actually believe." -exmocaptainmoroni
 
+Lee S Parsons I wouldn't use the term "religion", rather I'd say "fundamentalist belief".  I don't believe in a god, but I'm also loathe to label myself an atheist, since that implies that I'm fundamentalist about it.
 
+Linus Torvalds I think you're being a little harsh with the "bat-shit crazy" comment. Spend a few hours around a Mormon and I think it'll change (or at least soften) your criticism a little. We're really not that unusual if you can see past all the mean stereotypes.
 
+Lee S Parsons In fact, no. Atheism is lack of theism. Not believing in god. Which is very different from believing there's no god. You don't need faith to not believe in something.
 
+Trollus Maximus I believe in science not because I have faith but because I have replicable experimentation to prove it.
 
+Linus Torvalds is wrong.  PEOPLE are batshit crazy.   I've known many smart, well-adjusted religious people and many batshit crazy academic atheists.  So who is worse?  Sticking to the political discussion, USA separated the church and state - so we all have to suck up the Mormons, Scientologists, Christian Right and all other gods, and live with them in the gov't.
 
Some don't seem to realize that there is strong and weak atheism.
 
Science has been proven wrong before also
 
+Kirby Iwaki Tsukino  There you have the difference between definition and practice.  The lion's share of vocal atheists believe there to be no god.  Very few truly show no faith. 

While you are correct that it takes no faith to not believe, it does indeed take faith to believe something to not exist.  And very few people who are self-described atheists stop at the former, particularly when they enter a discussion on the topic.
 
Science is never an exactly fact or proof since we as humans for not and cannot know every variable in the universe
 
Quote from the Reddit Ex-Mormon on Reddit: "Most Mormons I know think that Romney needs to win as part of God's plan so that we can have a world war with Islam in order to bring back Jesus at the end of the apocalypse. I have heard this often, especially from the older Mormons."

"They also say that, within our lifetimes, the United States will fall apart and Missouri will be emptied by the wrath of God. Then, we will all go back like pioneers to build Zion there and replace the old inhabitants." (Missouri is considered a Mormon Eden of some sort).
 
Maybe you font understand the limitations of the human mind compared to the complexity of the universe
 
I grew up in the church (not by my choice) and can confirm +Barclay Lucid is correct.  It's all about Zion.
 
Yes, people should be free to believe any crazy shit they want. The problem is that some of the believers always end up imposing their crazy nonsense on the rest of us: same sex marriage? No, my book says it's an abomination. Stem cell research? Could potentially revolutionize medicine and save millions of people, but life starts at conception (or that's how I interpret my book). And the list goes on and on: abortion, teaching of evolution...
So by all means, believe any fairy tales you want if it helps you go through your day, but when discussing grown ups matters, don't get offended when we point out the obvious nonsense of your beliefs.
 
Umm Utah is their Eden, that's why their temple is there. Why build your major temple in a state only having to move later
 
+Lee S Parsons Your argument remains invalid. Atheism is not a religion. If so-called atheists like to have faith in the nonexistence of god, then they're theists..
 
Science is a box also because it's limited to what our humans minds can comprehend from only what we believe we know
 
I grew up in the LDS (a.k.a. mormon) church, and to tell you from my point of view that one its not christian, two its a cult, and three J smith was in it for the money and the women.
 
+Marcel Otte Wow - I hope you don't develop anything of interest about which someone else needs to keep an open mind...
 
Faith in facts is a belief that those facts are correct
 
I have learned that you can't reason with a religious zealot. Their thought process is not reality. Let's hope that Progressives and Independents vote this election. In 2010 their turnout was a shamefully low 40% and corrupt Republicans won by default. President Obama must win in 2012 or we can kiss our country and our democracy goodbye.
 
+Ryan Moffitt Mormonism was founded by a con man and contains absolutely not one grain of truth in it.  How exactly is he being harsh?  It's bat-shit crazy.  You're going to have to get used to that fact.
 
+Lee S Parsons That doesn't make sense. It would require faith in the non-existence of unicorns, goblins, monsters and just about anything mythical. The rational approach is simply to ask for evidence when someone claims something exists. If the evidence is not forthcoming there is no need to create a belief in the lack of that thing. In some ways that argument merely cheapens belief for those who do profess faith in gods, etc.
 
Thanks to the ex-Mormons for speaking up ... its like ex-Scientologists speaking up ... exposing the crazy.
 
+Kerby The moment Atheists get a symbol, set of moral documents, political movement, and start declaring that people who don't believe like them should die/will die/are going to die ... there really won't be much of a difference between Atheism and a religion. Aren't these the things that Atheists hate Religists for? Maybe anyone who says they are Atheist and doesn't believe the right way isn't a "true" Atheist and should be avoided.
 
Atheist never convert and say atheism was wrong?
 
We now have a big ass temple here in Kansas City.  And I'm told there is HUGE property investments recently for buying up whole towns to settle.  This is the real deal.
 
I would disagree that any religion is about the social bonds. Dharmic "religions", which may be better described more holistically as "ways of life", such as Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism, tend to be individual beliefs in nature. These do have sects that emphasise the community nature of religion/prayer, and some religious leaders are followed akin to cults, but in their primitive and oft-followed form, these religions are not organized per-se.

Eg. They do not pray together at a fixed time such as 11am on Sunday. They do not have sermonizing in their temples and evangelising outside it. They do not denounce non-believers, and often consider all religions as a way to the truth or god.
 
When Kennedy was running for president in 1960 one of the common arguments against him was that he was Catholic, that Catholic's couldn't be trusted in positions of power, and that he would govern via the Vatican.  (Which I guess take personally more than most having been raised Catholic.)  I think members of the LDS church are in a similar social category as Catholics were in the first half of the 20th century.  Kennedy, somewhat unlike Romney, took on criticism of his memberships directly, and was clear regarding what role those social bonds would play in his formation of public policy, something that Romney should do.

I think it is a healthy exercise to practice judging the candidates based on their policies, experience, record, etc, without getting stuck on their skin color, attractiveness, sex, disabilities, sexual orientation, or religious affiliation.  That being said, if their religious affiliations are part of their formation of public policy, it's fair game, just like any of the other commonly excluded protected groups.
 
+Shawn Hartsock what? I don't know of an atheist symbol, much less of a set of moral documents or a political movement (that one I think it's a good idea). Everyone is going to die, I don't know what's the point with that. What is "the right way"?
 
+Ian Davey  There is an important difference though in that very few people make life decisions based on the perceived existence of unicorns or monsters, and hence pretty well nobody devotes a great deal of effort to convincing those people that their beliefs are wrong. 

What I'm getting to is that people who are particularly dead set on convincing others that there is no god are just as religious as those who aspire for the opposite.  They are either way sharing a belief system. 

There are, indeed, atheists who simply don't believe in anything one way or the other.  However there are also plenty of 'atheists' who have reached their own conclusion and faith, without admitting it.  There is nothing wrong with the latter, it is just not accurate to say that they have no faith.
 
If Romney doesn't do what JFK did with the Catholic Church and the Pope, and renounce any allegiance to the Mormon hierarchy and in particular to their current leader, Prophet Thomas S. Monson -- then his chances of winning in 3 months are zero.
 
How come last election, Obama's religion was questioned, yet this election they aren't going to touch "Shit" Romney's religion? How hypocritical of the Refucklican party.
 
Too bad we couldn't bring ourselves to obsess as much about the beliefs of Mr. Obama's church when he was a candidate.

I guess. 
 
+Trollus Maximus science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop. However just because science cannot explain everything it doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with any horse sh!t fairy tales and gobbledygook you fancy.
 
This is what happens when Linus Torvalds is faced with a can of fish bait and an opener. On a personal note- Atheism simply makes more sense. On a side note- I wonder how many people are going to look for a new operating system for their computer (difficulty: Bill Gates is also Atheist)?
 
Didn't South Park already teach us how crazy they are?
 
Thou shalt not question a white man's religion.
 
Distractions aside, Romney is not going to be elected if the public fear he will do Monson's bidding. He'll eventually have to give a speech renouncing their authority as JFK did -- but he will never do that.
 
+Michael Crawford, if I had to guess it would be because everyone wanted to know if Obama was a Muslim, which somehow is a negative thing to a lot of people in this country for whatever reason. Mormonism, from what I understand, is more Christian related than anything. That's a positive thing to those same people.
 
I feel so sorry for each and every one of you.Do jou really think this life is it,death,war,politic,hate,lust,drugs.........such a empty life,so sad.
 
+Riaan Havenga I feel sorry for you, you can't write a literate sentence. Plus your points are mostly off topic.
 
Given all the FUD spread about the OS built around the Linux kernel I'm a quite disappointed to see you spreading religious FUD spouted by a clearly antagonistic third party.

What next? Sharing a post were Ballmer pretends to be a 'hardcore' Linux guy telling the real story about the OS?

Disappointing. Thank goodness the kernel news feed is separate so I don't have to listen to this uninformed bigotry. 
 
Not what,but WHO.A FULL life,pease ,love,hope.........You will KNOW THE TRUTH,and the TRUTH will set you free
 
Lol the Truth DID set me free. Thank you Mr Dawkins.
 
More from the ex-Mormon on Reddit: "It is important that we talk more about Mormonism. The media has a big blackout on it because the church owns significant stakes in most media companies. They also don't want to appear prejudiced. However, I think some concerns about Mormonism are legitimate."
 
Thanks a lot for sharing this - very interesting indeed.
 
tl;dr

Obviously +Linus Torvalds is trolling the religious community with this post, simply to stir up the chicken coop.
 
I have some Mormon in-laws... And all I can say is, "Wow."
 
I was raised in Utah also and frankly while I am not an full blown athiest, agnostic, or believer, I find the whole thing not worth thinking about one way or the other.  But IMHO all of religions consists of magical thinking with little basis in fact historical or otherwise.
 
Was raised Mormon also and they are a batshit crazy cult
 
No one gets quite so upset at being referred to as "batshit crazy" than people who are batshit crazy.
 
You have a lot to say,he.Let me brake it down.Belive in GOD,JESUS CHRIST,the creator of ALL THINGS,inc you
 
+Linus Torvalds Since Atheism is generally defined as not believing in deities or any singular deity, yourself being very logical, I could understand that stance.  What I've always found interesting from studying various religions, Mormonism included, is at the core they all teach the same thing, "be like God."  Per some of the stories in those text, I'm not always sure this is the best thing.  Some of them depict God as vengeful, vain and obtuse at times.  From a logical perspective this can not be an accurate depiction of God.
     As we base morality on a gradient, most everything really, we know that there must be absolutes at each end of this gradient.  Therefore, God would be the embodiment of everything good and the devil everything evil.  Any depiction of either in a mixed sense would be false and should be tossed out.  Though this definition of God does not give people the relational of similar human traits.  Something that has been shown to make us more comfortable and trusting of advice or knowledge given to us by something beyond ourselves.  There was a good article on Human/Machine interaction sighting this very thing.   
     What I find "Batshit Crazy", as you put it, is how most all religions will shun the base teaching of embody good or "be like God" to protect their idiosyncratic rituals.  They will openly push their differences rather than see that they are all the same.  Barring the aliens and stuff.  
 
+Linus Torvalds, sorry you feel that way! I'm a practicing member of the LDS Church and find it delightful and it brings me a lot of joy. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about it, because I wouldn't consider myself crazy. I'm a respected software engineer among my peers, I have a higher than normal IQ, and I'm an avid Linux user (go +Arch Linux!).  I'm guessing you are getting information from the wrong sources.

Many things that we do that people consider crazy aren't any different from what atheists, or other religious organizations, do in many parts of their life. In my limited experience, people all want similar things, and find that in different ways. Just because they've found a different way than you doesn't necessarily make them crazy.
 
+Joshua Marsh I find Disney movies bring me a lot of joy and are somehow more grounded in reality.
 
There is no god. Live your life accordingly.
 
+Justin Adams Obama was filmed in church, and when Rev. Wright spoke out against America, everyone assumed that Obama had the same views. Most of America's right wing just doesn't want to admit it, but they're racist. They don't like the black guy with the funny name in the Oval Office.
 
I'm a mormon and a Linux fan. Mormons don't all believe the same thing just because their religion "tells them to" - belief is not that pliable as Linus points out in his introduction. It's only the crazy rotton stuff that gets repeated. Magic underwear indeed!

As for the link, the top question with "exmocaptainmoroni" it starts out with: "God commanded Nephi, the first Jew in ..." well Nephi was not a Jew, according to the Book of Mormon he was a descendant of Manasseh not Judah. So I think that tells us how credible some of this is anyway...

Finally- you think mormons are crazy? The whole Christian story is crazy - if it wasn't, what would be the point? And I do believe the Christian story, Jesus, the Son of God, creator of the world, born of a virgin, saviour of mankind - and it's going to take something pretty amazing to save everyone (the hitler's included).

You guys probably all know a few mormons, and most of them you would not think were crazy.

And then there are crazy people, but they don't stop them joining the mormons just because of that. So there are crazy mormons and crazy ex-mormons (because they are allowed to leave to).

If you want to know what mormons believe, look on mormon.org

If you want to know what mormons are LIKE look on lds.org (it's a website for mormons).

If you want to know what mormons teach, watch or read one of their online conference sessions: http://www.lds.org/general-conference/sessions/2012/4?lang=eng
 
While Mormonism is wacko, it does tend to turn out good, decent people more often than not.
 
Mormon catechism sounds like something Douglas Adams may have written..I should be laughing at these stories yet I am sad.
 
The great religions of the world (of which Mormonism is not) are not about "social bonds."

All are founded within in the individual believer from a personal and profound spiritual/religious experience.  The religious communities comes in to that when finding expression and acceptance of the mystical experience-- What is is like?  What does it mean? What do I do about it?  That sort of continuity is shared and practiced among a community.

Now, with that truth comes the disaster of when those without a deeply rooted spiritual experience attempt to take mystical teachings and apply them to worldly matters-- politics being an obvious example.

Of course, the corruption also comes from outside of the faith communities in that those without spiritual experiences of their own presume their lacking such experiences is equivocal to there being no such experiences.  That is to say, for example, that not having a personal encounter with the divine must mean that no one else has, does, or even can.

When faced with that external attitude, many-- even most-- in the religious communities respond with their own presumption-- that is, that those confronting their beliefs are denying the obvious and so assign malevolent intent rather than mere ignorance.  They do this  because they presume that since they have had such profound experiences, that everyone else also has them. 

Only the mature are in a position to realize that few encounter life-changing experiences of a mystical kind-- or at not least often enough to recognize their Source and meaning.  Those are the ones who are never heard.  They are also those who represent true religion.  They will guide you if you ask to follow, but they never drive anyone along their own path.

The immature believers are also the most exuberant.  It is new and amazing and while they lack the wisdom and patience of the mature, they do not lack in a desire to share-- which too often comes with a forcefulness which is inappropriate.

In my own faith's scripture, the new believers are charged not to attempt to lead others-- but it is difficult to say to the excited and enthusiastic, "Close your mouth and leave everyone else alone!"-- as much as that may be exactly what ought to be said.

This leaves our secular society with a problem with no obvious solution:  How does one tell an atheist to be patient with the new believers?  The atheist has no concept of the inner impulses and changes taking place and so seeks to draw the person back, rather than forward toward maturity.

Essentially, the atheists sees a newborn and want to declare, "Push that baby back in the womb-- all it does it cry!"  The religious community, however knows that infants do not remain infants if nurtured.

Peace
 
Whats great about this country as aposed to others is you can walk away.  In other countries you would be put to death. 
 
If Mormons like their faith, and use it to become better people, all kudos to 'em. It doesn't matter if the prophet was "batshit crazy" or not (though judging from the history of religions, most of them seemed to be), what matters is what they do with their life. If they use it for good, to make life better for people without going all dogmatic and clamping down on other views, then it's a good outcome.
 
As a recovering escapee from the Mormon religous cul.... I meant church.  I wholeheartedly agree "Batshit Crazy" is a correct an appropriate description.
 
by way of politically correct there is no distinction between the two.
the right thing to do is always obvious.
its sad that the real issue is never mentioned.
ultimate power corrupts ultimately.
until greed is no longer possible there will never be true harmony in
government.  
 
+Linus Torvalds way to go for the low hanging fruit in a garden of midgets.... maybe youd have respect for a group of people who abstain from all forms of modern technology telling you why linux is total crap.... but sorry I just think only idiots rant about things they havent in the slightest given any serious study.... 

now when is g+ implementing the -1 button ?
 
Fantasy is  Linux taking over the desktop.  I will argue that almost every Mormon that I have met, is a hard working good person.  I cannot say the same with Atheist.  In fact I would say the opposite is true.   
 
Mormonism ? If Mormons are willing to see blacks as "equals " instead of descendants of Satan, then I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. My experience with young Mormons has been has been positive. I have studied many religions and I tend to feel most uncomfortable about those that are not open about their core beliefs. Mr. Romney might well lead the world soon. Why is checking into his background and beliefs considered taboo by so many?
 
I can say more wars have been started by Christians than Atheists. Christ would disown 90% of the Christians living today.
 
Is this the one that was dictated out of a hat?
 
Crews, you do an athiest a diservice, by your own agrument you cannot say with truth what an athiest is or is not capable of feeling. A polite and tender slap on the wrist for your double standards! :) 
 
Do we really need +Linus Torvalds talking to us about religion and his atheism? Stick to the coding and don't become a butthole.
 
woo.... Linus Torvalds opened a big can of worms. but as the face of mainstream open source movement (as opposed to the radical arm lead by Richard Stallman), I am sure a lot of the ultra-conservatives (where many Mormons belong) already branded Torvalds a socialist atheist devil.

Torvalds attributes this silence on Romney's faith and the implications to a potential Romney presidency to "political correctness," and calls for more open discussion about it. I agree with him. We should be able to raise questions about his faith's implications to his potential presidency without being branded an anti-mormon bigot.

However, I think there is a different explanation as to why Romney's faith has not been (or should not be) a bigger issue - Romeny is such a dangerous business predator his Mormon faith and whatever issues that might raise are rather irrelevant. He can be an atheist and still be extremely dangerous to this country.

His campaign now wants us to believe that Bain is about "turning failing business around," even though the hard cold facts about Bain is that a huge portion of businesses they helped "turned around" went bankrupt after Bain extracted their "service fee." They can slice the number however they want, and they can argue how private equity is a legal business, but that still doesn't change the fact that severe harm was done to many. Hiding behind the legal nature of a highly unethical practice is what a potential Romney presidency should scare most of us, not his faith.
 
I know a lot of Mormons. Grew up next door to them. Very good friends with some. It really comes down to the extent by which one absorbs (and preaches) religious doctrine. I wouldn't say Mormons are "batshit crazy" any more than Catholics, Scientists, or Neo-facists. Anyone that claims, fanatically, that their belief system is better that another is "batshit crazy" (and that goes for atheists). What's concerning is when religious dogma supercedes rationality. In other words, the Book of Mormon is batshit crazy. I remember my utter disappointment when my Mormon's 17-year old daughter chimed up with, "well, the Earth is only 5000 years old and we lived with Dinosaurs." That belies rationality. That posits written word (faith) over scientific evidence. People aren't crazy. When they allow themselves to become so indoctrinated in a specific ideology (i.e., Scientology), they cross over the line from rational human being to bathshit crazy. IMO, the point that Linus has raised is NOT ABOUT RELIGION (whether one is more crazy than another because that's not applicable). It's about ideological fanaticism and that applies across the board.
 
Useless conversation all around. 
 
+Linus Torvalds I can't believe I just flagged your post as "hate speech". But, apparently Google+ don't care!

So, you're bashing Mormons because no Mormon will threaten you with physical violence for criticizing his/her religion. I think that is a positive aspect of the religion. I have known many Mormons since I was 16, and they have been nothing but kind and dependable friends and colleagues.

How do you feel about the Mohammed cartoon controversy? How freely can you Scandinavian brethren criticize aspects of Islam they don't like?

Me, I think there are good and bad people of all religions, and to put down a whole group of people on the basis of their spiritual beliefs to be unnecessarily jerky behavior.
 
Respect Linus, for taking the no-bullshit stance on this whole political correctness BS, it seriously is ruining our civilized world.
 
To be fair, Stallman is fairly crazy too. ;-) but he happened to be right.

We need to draw a distinction between being nuts and being wrong.

Chances are Mormons are both...
 
mormonism second to the scientologists in the race to batshit crazy? seriously?
mormonism is a form of christianity, and christianity contradicts reality in a lot more ways than scientology does.
most or all religions are pretty batshit crazy though :D
 
+Chinh Luong I agree that we shouldn't bash religion.  However, I also think there's a blurred line when a religion starts to influence members in methods verging on the occult, and possibly even threatens their members, or tries to inhibit freedom of speech in public among members about topics the church argues about, which may be what happens here.  

I don't think there's actually any religious persecution going on here, more just people struggling to understand and explain exactly what mormonism is about, since a lot of people here "Mitt Romney is a mormon", and it sort of has a bad connotation in today's society, with sort of that odd, creepy, "we're a big happy family on the surface, but fiercefully repressed inside the house" image.  

I'm sure there are arguments on either side of this, but it's interesting to read nonetheless.  Just don't let it influence you to persecute a religion :)  Persecuting a dangerous cult, that's arguable.  I think scientology definitely verges on that "Dangerous cult" line, kind of teetering but not knowing where to put it or how to face it.
 
Btw, people, don't take that thing as being overly political. I actually would expect Romney to be one of those people who don't seriously believe (he did move to Massachusetts, after all), and who is probably more a "social pressure" Mormon than anything else.

I just thought the AMA was interesting. And magic underwear is actually a much less damaging belief than (for example) the "priests cannot marry" belief.

One results in funny "omg, do people really believe that!" comments, the other results in a sexually frustrated clergy. I know which belief I prefer to see.

So really, people - take that AMA for what it is: interesting.
 
lol@ all the angry mormons in here. yes, you are free to believe what you want, just like everyone else is free to believe its a cult and crazy. nobody forced you to comment on this.
 
+Daryl Kranec Why can you persecute a cult but not a religion? ... whats the difference ... crazy people indoctrinating stupid people with magical fairy tales.
 
This is in regards to my Sun activity disclosure at the youtube channel, doowop62 that shows videos of the disclosure with photographs. Here is a copy of my research.

Sun Activity Research 
David D. Stacey, Private Researcher, Glen Allen, VA.
On July 5, 1885, a spectroheliographic image was taken of the photosphere that demonstrated the best image taken as of that early date. That image was published in 'The Sun,' Kuiper editor, 1953. The image is clear enough where one may easily see the photospheric convection granulation transformation into adult extraterrestrial human entities on the photosphere at a temperature near 6,000K. The estimated time of transformation into human entity was submitted by K O Kiepenheuer, 'The Sun,' Kuiper editor, 1953; at 3 minutes for granule transformation. The human entities were identified as faculae until K O Kiepenheuer, published in his lecture and included the 1923 Greenwich Observers conclusions identifying photospheric faculae as 'entities' and book published photographs. 'The Sun,' G P Kuiper, editor, 1953, and written by the Greenwich Observers.
Identified faculae human entities are always present surrounding spot formations. The spot human entities are in place to effect removal of horses from the spot. The Spot process is akin to the supernatural granulation transformation of faculae humans, but comes from the darker sun spot pool with an average temperatures near 4,000K, assisted for removal by the human entities surrounding the Spot there. As horses, 'The Sun,' Kuiper, editor, 1953, called 'leaders or spectra' are retrieved from the spot pool with the assistance of the faculae human entities, they are quickly matched with an entity rider. In some cases when human entity is matched by horse, a surge prominence or self ability to fly moves them into the lower Corona. Both faculae human entities and horses move into the lower Corona by self flight capability, observance in lower & upper corona and around Planet atmospheres, or by surge prominences; magnetic waves to which they may connect and ride into the Corona. Loop flares single flares are generated from the area of the spots. General prominence waves are generated from the area where human entities reside. The creation processes are supernatural and have not been written to equation.
From the Corona, the human entities with or without horse accompaniment move through the Galaxy and Solar System. The human entities are provided, internally, with magnetic electrical resonance abilities that probably produce high or low temperatures (observed photosphere photographic  evidence).
Theory indicates the excessive heat found in the Corona may be partially generated by the numerous human entities found there, having arrived by riding a magnetic wave prominence or self flight into the lower Corona. The human entities and horses demonstrate supernatural abilities (cannot be written to equation).
Theory: The human entities have shown an ability to provide a self induced internal light that will project a beam. Then, too, they have shown an ability with groups to form a biological craft for flight. Each individual human entity exerts the ability of flight without craft of any type. In groups the human entities join arms or hands after which they probably exert a magnetic electrical resonance which joins the entities into a biological craft for flight, a supernatural ability demonstrated. (D Stacey, observed in available photographs.)
Found within the atmosphere of Earth, the entity's survive well and may not have a need for solid food sources. (Natural food stuffs unknown in outer space.) The human entities and horses can and have traveled to the Earth's surface and returned to their atmosphere home around Earth, demonstrating a power over Earth's gravity.
Theory: Showing signs of biological internal magnetic/electric resonance allows them to defy Earth's gravitational pull. The propagation/creation of Celestial horses and Celestial Human Entities creation is a clue from where some of the Corona heat is generated. The Human entities show a control of the heat factor on the photosphere. (D Stacey private collection photographs observance).
References:
The sun, 1953, G P Kuiper, editor Photographs
1923 Greenwich observers Publication, E W Maunder, Photosphere Activity
NASA and JPL images published in on-line journals
L H Strous, et all, Phenomena in an emerging active region, para 2,2,4, 28 Feb., 1995
R Muller (Springer 1985) High Resolution in Solar Physics
K O Kiepenheuer, Sun Activity, Published, 1953, within The Sun, editor, G P Kuiper
Published photographs, Image 1898, photosphere, Annie Maunder published.
Sun spot image, JPL/NASA images
copyright 2012
 
Why don't you all go to a Mormon church on Sunday and ask these questions?
 
If they're not Muslims, there's no bloodshed, slavery or killing of one's family for religion...I'm fine with Mormons. Or Buddhists or whatever!
 
+Dave Stacey ... really WTF is that! Have you been off serious meds long ... please explain!
 
Fucking shit ... beware of crazy ... +Dave Stacey is completely fucked! Seriously man what is wrong with you to go that far into crazy!
 
For full disclosure, I'm LDS, but not active in the church. I've got my own personal criticisms about it as well.

Linus - your post doesn't seem really well thought out and comes off as uninformed and prejudiced. You're entitled to your opinion (as I am to mine), but I know there is more (and better) information about this than a single Reddit post.

It may terrify you to know this, but there are as many "batshit crazy" Mormons out there as there are Jews in the world. There are over 2x as many Mormons as there are Fins in the world. It's worth the time to do some research.
 
To the poster of this
It's not the "..idiotic politically correct.." nor is it the "Batshit crazy.." nonsense, however it is the idea  that this and all religions that were created by some crack smoking, pot headed, backwoods pedo that scares me that people will follow these.
Just like the radicals. There is no difference.

Seek the original King James Bible and see!

I believe in my religion and you believe in yours.
Don't shovel your religion down my throat and I will not your throat.
 
+Brandi Lee-Writer ... whats wrong with pot ... please dont lump it in ignorantly with crack or "backwoods pedos?" ...
 
+Dave Stacey please explain your crazy ... Im extremely interested in how you achieved a master level of crazy!
 
Since all religions make claims that fly in the face of modern physics and logic wouldn't they all be equally "batshit crazy"?
 
Never argue with religious zealots. You will never win. The only option is to vote them out of office. That is the American way. 
 
Mormons are a fucking joke. It is terrifying that there are so many. But we all know that they know the more people they pull into the church-- the more money they will make and the more influence they get in big business and politics as you are seeing now.
 
+Dave Stacey I couldnt be more serious WTF really ... in your own words right now ... WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!
 
+Linus Torvalds 
lol it seems that they have notified fellow Mormons to comment on this post. The statistics just don't add up for this post.
 You can even see some sort of tactics spanning 2~3 persons at a time. One is moderate, another one will be like "Shame on you" and the last will act extremely offended. Of-course there are the outliers (batshit crazy)
 
I like how all the religious nuts have come out and declared Linus an Atheist just for commenting critically on something about religion, and are now bashing atheism for being just as nutty as religion as a way to justify their beliefs.     No where has he expressed that he is an atheist   Agnostic?  Perhaps.   But that's a pretty silly way to defend religion anyways, no matter what Linus's actual views are. Desperate much?
 
Yes. +Dave Stacey you are obviously insane. Private researcher.... haha come on man, theory? Give me a break-- where did you learn about science?
 
From +Dave Stacey Youtube - "The Sun is an electromagnetic element within our Solar System.

Its photosphere convection causes granules to rise. The granules after transformation become Celestial Heavenly Human formed extraterrestrial entities of our Lord.

A closer look at Sun spots, encircled by a special extraterrestrial entity for extraction, creates Celestial Steed, horses.

Both entities migrate from the photosphere through the Corona into space and throughout our Solar System. Flares, prominences and flight capablities help move the entities into the Corona for distribution movement into our Solar System."

This is absolute madness ... do you realize that!
 
As an atheist, I say he has every right to let people know how he feels. Dinesh D'Souza doesn't respect you, +Michael Cooke.
 
I find it interesting that as a conservative I don't give a crap what someone else believes.  I don't care.  On the other hand, liberal leftists seem to think that someone's religion is important.  Why do Liberal Leftists want to control everyone else?  Mormon's can believe anything they want, same goes for Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, etc.  Believe what you want, but slamming someone because of their beliefs is two faced and flat out wrong.  Glad I don't pay for this Linux Kernel, I would be pissed knowing my money would have been doing to such a short sighted person.
 
+Linus Torvalds, based on the complexity of your work in the kernel, and the occasional talk that I've been able to watch, I've tended to assume you are a fairly intelligent guy. Please don't tell me you honestly believe that you've offended the religious among us because of a political statement.

We were offended because we (erroneously) attributed a higher level of personal integrity to you than displayed in this post.

We simply thought that your personal integrity would have prevented you from promoting the disingenuous rantings of a hostile expatriate of the LDS faith.

I suppose that was our bad, we won't be as surprised in the future - or take your opinions very seriously, as this episode severely degrades the trust we have that you've done even cursory research on a given topic. 
 
Proud members of solavei .... 
 
So, just a thinly veiled attack on Mormonism because Romney is a Mormon. Funny how no one seems to mind that Harry Reid, or 16 other members of Congress are Mormons.

I didn't mind when we elected a Catholic as President, even though many feared he'd take orders from Rome.

And, while I didn't care much for Nixon, his being a Quaker didn't seem to bother folks.

That Southern Baptist when had for a bit was a failure, but I don't think that had anything to do with his religion.
 
Funny people don't care about a candidates religion now... they sure cared about Kennedy being catholic back in his day.
 
+Chadwick Jones have you seen those pictures in the videos they are just pictures of the sun ... intertwined with rants of a madman!
 
+Tyson Kemp  Could be because I'm a Christian. Do you need a simpler version of Faculae transformation into celestial Humans or Umbra Horses? Not to worry though, unless you like to follow crazy people. Ha ha ha ha. +Brett Bazaar This answers your Crazy post, too. Hee hee hee.
 
No. LOL that guy is a fucking crazy asshole. I enjoy debates with intelligent folks, not crackpots.
 
+Does any of it really matter?  Seems to me what matters are character, ability, experience, and policy, not his religious views.  
 
Yes. Enjoy Kolob-- because we know Missouri is your mecca... weird.
 
+Dave Stacey fuck you just said absolutely nothing!

+Linus Torvalds in case you havent seen this guy is completely fucking nuts! Get a laugh and head to his youtube ... dont stay to long though ...
 
I don't see where Linus is not respecting other people's beliefs. He is expressing his opinion, he has the right to do it. Opinions don't harm anyone.
 
If you don't think his fucked up religion will affect his policy then you're just as crazy.
 
Time for everyone to go outside and do something productive.

This discussion does nothing to benefit the world.
 
It is quite an accomplishment to outdo "normal" mainstream Christian thought & "belief" but by god the Mormons did it. Joseph Smith(is that his real name?) must have been seriously deranged.
 
Haha I don't think that at all... but okay... lol
 
I couldn't agree more +Ryan Fairchild this has severely detracted from my android development today ... but I needed a hilarious break too!
 
Well I'm glad my religious. I enjoy it. Strange, that I take time to study my own religion, ask questions, and I daily work to come to terms with the world and my own religion.
I'm a Massage Therapist, working towards being a Doctor who will actually give a crap about you.
Why? Probably because I grew up a religion that taught me to care for my neighbor, taught me to respect others and their opinions.
Yes, there are many points about the LDS religion which I don't even understand- which I work on understanding. But I'll say this- I have Hope, Happiness, and a hunger for Knowledge and Understanding- all brought into my life by the LDS religion.

Will I respect your opinion that my religion is a joke and "Batshit Crazy"? haha, yea, actually. Do you think I'm crazy? Probably. But I think anyone who doesn't enjoy Life to the fullest is crazy- ;)
Either way- Enjoy life- however you need to do it. And I thank God that at least you and I can share these opinions.
 
Religions have a lot of good lessons to teach, they aren't the problem; Fanatics are the problem.
 
+Linus Torvalds More and more you seem to be letting your emotions override your better judgement. First the nVidia rant (even if nVidia does deserve criticism for their lack of Linux support) and now trolling religions (LDS/Mormons in the OP, Catholics in your later comment).

To those saying "don't try to get me to believe what you believe" and turning around saying "I don't believe in God, you shouldn't believe either," isn't that a little hypocritical? Not all atheists are telling everyone they shouldn't believe, but several of you are. Why can't everybody just let everybody else just believe/not believe in whatever God or religion they want?

To this end, I've met several people of the Muslim faith who were great people, willing to share their Ramadan dinner with me, though I was just walking by through the apartment complex. I've met several LDS/Mormons, FLDS, RLDS (Church of Christ now), Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Protestants, Presbyterians, Christian Scientists, Atheists, and Agnostics. Guess what, there were many of them in ALL of those groups who were great people. There were also many in ALL of those groups who acted in ways I don't agree with, including trash talking people of other beliefs, cultures, races, or classes. There were people in ALL of those groups who were kind, intelligent, respectful people. There were also people in ALL of those groups who were the very essence of the word disrespectful.

And now I've let my emotions get the better of me and replied to a troll post.
/rant
 
+James Trevail cant we teach those lessons without breaded hobos and sexual oppression? among other things?
 
+Sean Bolster your religion will enjoy that 10% contribution from your salary... because churches need lots of money.
 
People can keep religion personal, that is fine with me, but once it becomes part of public policy and influences the decisions being made... thats a problem..
 
I loved when u wrote "batshit crazy". Awesome! I'm with you there bud.
 
There's nothing special about Mormonism. All the other popular religions are equally absurd, filled with hilarious flights of the human imagination. The difference is that people respect things that are older and less vulnerable to debunking.  The cult leaders from many centuries ago, e.g. Jesus, Mohammed, etc, were deranged lunatics who would never be taken seriously if they were preaching about their mumbo jumbo fantasy world today. We must respect theists as people, but we should not respect their beliefs.  Religion is a hideous, crippling mental disease. We must take every opportunity to bash all religions, just as we fight against racism, sexism and homophobia.  Theists often complain about atheists bashing their beliefs, as if they should be given special status to perpetuate their dangerous delusions. They try to classify rational criticism as "hate speech", to gain some kind of moral upper ground. That's nothing more than an appeal to authority or argument by avoiding the argument.  It's a dirty trick to protect themselves from genuine scrutiny and responsibility. Bashing religion is not hate speech; it's a moral and intellectual responsibility for all humans who understand the dangers of people who follow orders from imaginary friends.
 
+Sean Bolster You don't need religion in order to learn to care for your neighbour. I confronted some fool from the bible belt about how he said that everybody who was an unbeliever would go to hell, then he insisted that the Islamic people would for sure (same god no?), so I asked him about Judaism; that made him leave the thread, he said something about how it takes two to argue...
 
U sir, are being followed. Nice post.
 
+Mike Parker actually you hit the nail on the head there for me ... I respect people just not their religious beliefs!

WOW THANK YOU REALLY! Ive been to heated and tired(coding) to output what you just did! Great summary!
 
Yeah. I work in healthcare and I'm an atheist... ooogy booogy.
 
Ideally I wouldn't have to care about others' religious beliefs, but it is far too common for those in power to legislate based on their unsubstantiated and irrational beliefs about reality.
 
+Tyson Kemp Learn the difference between "your" and "you are" before calling me stupid.
 
I'm of LDS faith, and I love Linux. I must be crazy.
 
+Chadwick Jones: of course not, but it pays well and takes a relatively short time to learn. I know of a couple of people who got certified to help pay for medical school.
 
There are many rumors and much disinformation about us mormons, I'd encourage you to do some research, visit www.Mormon.org please before you make such nasty comments.
 
blah blah blah
one day everyone will find out for themselves
and then comes the regret
good luck in the meantime people
 
Because you're........ dead? End of story. Enjoy that DMT release into the brain and you're out.
 
+John Long is a sad person because hes waiting for his cloud chair past the gates ... grow up with your good luck comments!
 
Alright. I'm out of this.... Mormons are retarded, at least Christian apologists have material worth debating about.
 
+John Long I accept that I could be wrong, but all signs point to no, so go fuck yourself John, the hell you believe in is yours to keep.
 
If I speak fancy people will listen also ... So sayeth +James Trevail WOE and the words are good! LoL ... get over it ... read another book you thumpers!
 
It is interesting.  I think you should be respectful of peoples beliefs... but when you make it an issue in the campaign... when you are telling people how important religion plays in your life and your decision making... I think it is important to take a look at that religion and see how this may or may not affect those decisions.
 
You believe in what you like but DON'T TRY TO INSTALL YOUR BELIEF'S INTO OTHER PEOPLE IDEIOLOGY
 
Book of Mormon
2 NEPHI 5: 20–27

20. Wherefore, the word of the lord was fulfilled which he spake unto me, saying that: Inasmuch as they will not hearken unto thy words they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And behold, they were cut off from his presence.
21. And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
22. And thus saith the lord God: I will cause that they shall be a loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.
23. And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.
24. And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey.
25. And the Lord God said unto me: They shall be a scourge unto thy seed, to stir them up in remembrance of me; and inasmuch as they will not remember me, and hearken unto my words, they shall scourge them even unto destruction.
26. And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did consecrate Jacob and Joseph, that they should be priests and teachers over the land of my people.
27. And it came to pass that we lived after the manner of happiness.
 
+Linus Torvalds this post just makes you seem so small.  I'm a Mormon and I find my faith growing year by year.  I have many atheist friends, and I try hard to appreciate their views and opinions - I try to think deeply about their perspective. I don't have much respect for atheists who aren't willing to do the same.  Thanks for Linux though - it rocks!  But Mormons rock too!!!
 
"Mormon religious text.
Doctrine and Covenants, section 132. 53. to 66.
53. For I am the lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been faithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
54. And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my Law.
55. But if she will not abide this commandment , then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him and hundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds.
56. And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice.
57. And again, I say, let not my servant Joseph put his property out of his hands, lest an enemy come and destroy him; for Satan seeketh to destroy; for I am the Lord thy God, and he is my servant; and behold, and lo, I am with him, as I was with Abraham thy father, even unto his exaltation and glory.
58. Now, as touching the law of the priesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.
59. Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was Aaron , by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that sent me, and I have endowed him with the keys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit sin, and I will justify him.
60. Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.
61. And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
62. And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
63. But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.
64. And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.
65. Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife.
66. And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter ; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the profit, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843"
 
+Matthew Mendoza Don't cite scripture you dolt, that's like citing Wikipedia, only not reputable at all. I dare you to quote some other holy books alongside your own, non-monotheistic ones if you would.
 
Mormon religious text
Doctrine and covenants, section 130
12. I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the difficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the son of man will be in South Carolina.
13. It may probably arise through the slave question. This a voice declared to me, while I was praying earnestly on the subject, December 25th, 1832.
14. I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the son of man. When I heard a voice repeat the following:
15. Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man ; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.
16. I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and see his face.
17. I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.
18. Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.
19. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come. ~Joseph Smith the Prophet~
 
Mormon religious text
Doctrine and covenants, section 129
1. There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely : Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—
2. For instance, Jesus said : "handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
3. Secondly : The spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected , but inherit the same glory.
4. When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
5. If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
6. If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—
7. Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.
8. If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.
9. These are the three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.
~Joseph Smith the Prophet~
 
Wow, what a post.  Thank you SO MUCH for that, +Linus Torvalds.  I've always admired your work (although I never could figure out how to use Linux) and now I see you're a fellow atheist.  Far out man, f**king far out!!
 
James, read it! I just gave you lots of fodder, fool....
 
"Well, that escalated quickly. I mean that really got out of hand"
 
North of 60, we are allowed to leave god out of all of our vows (citizenship, legal, military, what have you), so long as we swear allegiance to queen and country.
 
+Parker McGowan it is simple: the material in the AMA is so distorted as to bear only a superficial resemblance to what we believe and what is taught by the LDS church.
 
Religious fundamentalists are scary, regardles off what God they claim to praise.  To me Mormon fundamentalists are no different than any other fundamentalist.   
 
mormons are racists in religious disguise.
 
+Indes Vanilap English royalty isn't much more than traditional, ceremonial shenanigans. I don't know what is wrong with being a little patriotic though.
 
patriotism is retarded same as ceremonial shenanigans. :D
 
+Indes Vanilap The only thing I know that all racists share is ignorance, I'm sure there are many pleasant Mormons.
 
Lol. This is very first article from Linus Torvalds i have ever read which has nothing to do with Linux...
 
they can be pleasant but their believes are still retarded and wrong.
 
OP is an ass.  I respect him for helping invent Linux... other than that... total jackass.  Anyone who attacks another person's faith for no reason at all needs to seriously examine their own personality, morals and ethics.  And, no, I'm not Mormon.  I just have a beef with people who attack other religions for no reason.
 
Somebody has yet to master their capital letters, and it seems a pre-teen from Xbox Live has found Google+.
 
Someone has yet to master staying on topic no matter which device it uses to communicate on G+. :D
 
To answer Tyson Kemp and James Trevail. True; that the above posts are predominantly you two. There are a handful of Mormons that posted.
Who's religion? Mormons. You two need to simmer down. If you would just read the post, you might get a good laugh.
You give, if that's what you are; atheist a bad name. You appear to be as thoughtless as the people you are attacking. And yes, I have read all four Mormon religious text. In closing, you should know that I'm a direct descendent of the Fancher clan. Please do us all a favore and think befor you write. 
 
this publication doesnt exist anymore.......the link provided by Linus has been deleted.......I cant give an opinion......O_0.
 
What scares me isn't the religion itself (all religions are more or less crazy) but the fact that Romney is on record saying that he changed rationally made decisions because God told him to. We're talking about a man who will have the power to nuke the entire world who hears voices in his head and make decisions based on those voices.
 
Who cares about someone's religion If they are decent and can perform their job duties. Obama is a turd and a failure as President...I will take a Mormon over a moron anyday.
 
+Matthew Mendoza Your sentence structure is all off, and don't even get me started on the spelling! I wish there was a way to red line what you just wrote. What the fuck is the Fancher Clan? And why should we care?
 
Stick to computers. Your theologically rantings don't really make much sense.
 
The signal/noise ratio here is frighteningly poor...
 
Lee Parsons rendition was correct.
Back to presidential candidates and religion. As long as that candidates religion does not interfere with the
Constitution and our inherit freedoms as we are accustomed to, the candidate's religions beliefs should be none of our concern.
Now having said I must state I have done extensive research into religions since 1978. Starting first with the US then onward to (as I put it) foreign countries. When I entertained the Bible and its conglomeration of diversity, I studied Hebrew and Greek. I will now take detour to get to my conclusion so as not to bore you further. After much calculating of my finding, I believe the Holy Bible is authentic. And of all the religions coming from it The Seventh-day Adventist is the most accurate to the scriptures. Investigate it from the source not the internet. The internet I found is not accurate to Seventh-day Adventist true beliefs. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain to follow up on my conclusions /findings.
 
+Linda Smith I think you have spent most of the time studying nonsense so you got to nonsensical conclusions. :D
 
And this is who the republicans are backing .
 
+Parker McGowan, I really wish you would quit using that quote. It does not contain any teachings endorsed by the LDS church and does not reflect the beliefs of any sizable portion of the members (aged or otherwise).

In several points it directly contradicts church doctrine. As I noted before the bits of the AMA that I've seen (I can't check directly as it appears to have been taken down) have been distorted almost beyond recognition.
 
I seriously cant believe anyone who follows Linus is a mormon.  Mormonism is a joke.  Your beliefs are hilarious and obviously false.  You are no better than a cult member and you are a silly silly person if you for one second relate to the Mormon faith.   Does that make me an athiest?  No.  But everything i said is still true.  How can you waste your time and energy on such a silly thing as religion, especially Mormonism?  Are you people really that broken and desperate for answers?  Get a hobby. 
 
Has anyone seen the new documentary '2016'? I think some people on this need to check it out...
 
ANY RELIGION TAKEN TO, AND I QUOTE, A "HARDCORE" EXTREME IS BATSHIT CRAZY.  Mormonism is not special in this regard.

Comparing Mormonism to Scientology is simply stupid.  Scientology is a self-avowed money-making scheme created by a professional science-fiction author, and there's extensive speculation everything from indentured servitude in work camps to straight up assassination is/has been perpetrated by them.  To say nothing of the deeply disturbing Hollywood power-broker connections, and their comically absurd beliefs regarding the cosmos and origin of life on Earth that read like pulp science-fiction (just like what Hubbard spent a lifetime writing... HMMM).

Mormonism is pretty weird, but it has nothing on that.  Even the fundamentalist polygamy practices in Mormonism just seem like quaint strangeness compared to the taking-itself-seriously morally bankrupt insanity Scientology gets up to.
 
Then Brazil must be the "Batshit Cave"! Believe me, Mormons are a non issue compared to Brazilian Protestants.
 
+James Trevail  Its harsh but its reality.  I believe in science and being kind out of my own free will.  Simple as that.   If you need faith and religion to get to that point, there is something deeply wrong with you.  Especially with how OBVIOUSLY fake, made up, and cultish most all religions are.  You pretty much have to have a mental and/or emotional deficiency to believe in any religion. 
 
True, I have poor writing skills. VERY POOR.
That does not change the TRUTH!
As far as the Fancher clan. Do some research on that. No need for you to care, it might give you some insight to my perspective. I think it's funny that you are so mean spirited. Slow down and THINK!

 
Anyway, it's stupid in and of itself to obfuscate Obama vs Romney with nonsense character implications regarding each man's claimed religion.

Newsflash!  They're federal-level politicians!  

Romney's as fake-Mormon as, for example, John Kerry is fake-Catholic. They're just labels politicians wear for the sake of their image and constituency. So there's really no need to worry that Romney would go all Mormon-freak on us if he got into the Oval Office.
 
+Linus Torvalds I have a lot of respect for you and consider you one of the greatest programmers ever. But, I am disappointed in the way you disrespect my religion. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but based on your comments and the link you need to do a little more research on Mormons before bashing them. The poster on reddit knows nothing about the Mormon church if you are interested in the facts www.lds.org maybe more helpful.
 
+Alexander Herlan And science holds that anything that is even remotely possible (having not been proven impossible) is still possible.

I share a similar view as you do, though I have this view because I'm not going to go and tell any religion they are wrong.
 
Ironic thing about Scientology being certifiably "Batshit Crazy" is that  the pulp fiction writer, L. Ron Hubbard, invented it to prove a point. Elron even made a bet with Arthur C. Clarke that he would be successful.  I'm sure Elron was surprised at how much money he convinced people to give him.
 
If its not provable within a scientific frame work you can shove it where the sun don't shine.  

I guess I don't really care if people want to believe in an invisible man in the sky or a dead scfi writer who lives in a volcano. I just have trouble with the thought that if you have at least two brain cells to rub together then after a quick overview of all religion its all obviously bullshit, and if you are adhering to some kind of doctronised faith for social and family reasons then just how much integrity do you have? People shouldn't be forced to live a lie especially if many others think its all bollocks as well.

I have no problem with the idea that there is a higher force or we are part of a larger conciousness or some shit like that, but it just speculation, its not fact, and just because I like the idea doesn't mean its true. Maybe one day when we learn enough we will know the answers about what happens when we die but for then, if you are getting your information second hand you need to open you eyes a little wider.     



    
 
+Paul Greenwood  You deserve to be offended, because you really should rethink what you believe.   Mormonism wont do anything for you that simply being a logical, reasonable, good person will.   Why feed into a cult, why give time energy and dedication to a set of stories that are obviously and provably false?   If you were born into it, fine, i sympathize, it can be hard to pull away without hurting ur family  and those around you.  But its just silly to believe in fairytails, or to pledge allegence to anything or anyone for no good reason (or in this case, made up reasons)
 
It's a pity how pointing out the craziness of religion, however obvious it might be, still seems to be such a controversial act.
I mean tolerance is a neat idea but there is a huge problem with it, most people want it applied to everything without realizing where it just has to stop.
There is a simple rule though, tolerance has to stop right at the moment where someone's believe/ideas start cutting into another ones freedom without giving a damn good reason that can be deduced from ideas everyone can accept.
And that's where religion differs from humanism, unlike religion humanism has to base all rules and ideas on premises that make sense.
One great thought experiment here is what a group of intelligent people would agree upon if they didn't know how, where, with what skin color, sexual preference, gender or disability they would be born, so they can make up their mind soley based on what makes sense.
I think only rules that would be agreed upon in such a setting should be enforced. Any other ideas an believes should stay away from other peoples lifes, bodys and so on. Especially the life's, bodies and brains of children.
So believe what you want, have sex with whoever you want as long as they consent (and they're able to do so i.e. old enough and sober enough)  but don't atack anyones freedom.
One important thing at the end, just as I love +Linus Torvalds 's style of writing, I strongly believe that pissing someone off by calling them out or making fun of their stupidty/believes doesn't atack their freedom and people should just have the strength to live with that instead of calling for censorship, because that definitely decreases freedom!
 
+Alexander Herlan, while you may believe that our beliefs are 'hilarious and obviously false', your comments suggest you aren't really all that familiar with what we actually believe.

For starters we very strongly believe in doing good of our own free will, and that we have a responsibility to follow our conscience in all things.
 
+Kevin Crawford  The attacks on other people's faith are for very important and obvious reasons. The reasons chiefly involve evidence that such beliefs are false, absurd, offensive, dangerous, etc. What a vacuous, cliched thing you wrote in your comment above: "Anyone who attacks another person's faith for no reason at all needs to seriously examine their own personality, morals and ethics.  And, no, I'm not Mormon.  I just have a beef with people who attack other religions for no reason."  The OP did not "attack" Mormonism for "no reason". Millions of people actually believe the absurdist fairy tales of Mormonism (not much different than other religious fairy tales), and they provide justification for a lot of disturbing behavior, e.g. suppressing abortion rights, racism, sexism, dysfunctional sexuality. On top of all that, the military of the most powerful country in the world might soon be under the command of someone who actively supports an insane scifi/fantasy "faith" and publicly admits to having an imaginary friend.  It's not about Mormonism in particular.  The fact that many past presidents have professed various other flavors of Christianity is equally alarming. Even Obama's thinly disguised Christianity-as-political-convenience is alarming. Science proves that all gods are pure fiction.  Science got us to the moon and Mars. Science created telephones and computers. Everyday there are thousands of activities you engage in that rely on science.  There's no religion that could claim such achievements. Religion is dangerous and obsolete, and it needs to be attacked relentlessly until it stops threatening the human species.  It's not about "another person's faith".  It's about the ideas of those faiths, and for every religion those ideas are essentially the same false supernatural fantasy.
 
+Matthew Mendoza All I see is something about a massacre during the american civil war, and that was some time ago. Up north we don't cover your history in fine detail. I'm agnostic by the way, a decent human being also, and I'm not about to tell any religion that they are wrong (can you honestly say the same thing?).
 
+Morgen Peschke  It doesnt matter what all the good parts are, those all could be achieved without all the specifics of it being a religion.  Its still silly pointless, and ultimately a sign of emotional or mental weakness to believe in those types of fairytails.  Why waste your time and energy making yourself look silly by believe in silly fairytails, when you could just be a good person without being mormon?
 
It's amazing how many religious people there are in the USA. Thank god I live in Europe.
 
+Jono Scaife - I have bad news for you: nothing is provable within the scientific context. All we have are things which have not yet been shown to be false.
 
God, to everyone being 'disrespected' there's a great little thing you can do on G+: it's called 'unfollowing'. Secondly, it's like bashing your head against a wall whenever a religious person calls bullshit on atheistic beliefs. It works both ways. Now, as the prophet of the new age (I can claim that, right?), my message is to grow some thicker fscking skin and get over yourselves
 
Why do these people need Mormonism in their lives?  Are they really saying they're that weak willed, that pathetic, and that ignorant, that they cant be good people without Mormonism telling them how?  That is pathetic to me, in a modern society where education and knowledge is readily available.  You can still do all the good things Mormonism teaches without being mormon, so why buy into the bullcrap?  Why make yourself look like a crazy person believing in magic underwear?  Just be a good person, dont follow cults.  Dont follow the herd.  Think for yourself, question authority, etc.
 
+James Trevail - I didn't intent to imply that being a good person required being LDS, but rather to address the very strong implication in +Alexander Herlan's post that our church taught people to suppress that instinct in favor of cultural indoctrination.

+Alexander Herlan - I believe because of what I have personally experienced that indicates to me that there is a God, and that following His teachings both generates better outcomes and helps me to be a better person by confronting my subconscious hangups and encouraging self reflection.
 
Santa Claus and Invisible Friends should be left behind at about age 5 or 6.  Even preschool kids know it's a game of "let's pretend".
 
+James Trevail So what makes your god any more "right" than the different teachings of all the other thousands of gods?  How do you reconcile the fact that religion and religious teachings are obviously 100% man made fabrications?  How is mormonism any less silly than all the other silly interpretations of what "god" might be like from around the world?  Why isnt being a good person just obvious to you?  Why do you need to follow totally made up teachings for you to not be a bad person?   
 
My understanding of Mormonism is that their founder Joseph Smith was also somewhat prone to scandal, including allegations of fraud. That does not bode well for any religion when the founder is rather suspect and comparatively speaking lived recently so the documents and accounts are clearer.

As for points regarding science, the main difference between science and religion is that atleast researchers can criticise each others views without being branded as anti this or that. Sadly religion does in general does not welcome criticism even in our present slightly more enlightened age. People are routinely killed in some countries for renouncing their faith or blasphemy.  I have yet to hear of any IT researcher being killed for saying Linux is better than Windows :) 

All these things aside being Mormon should not prevent Mitt from being President, as in all honesty his faith is no more bat shit crazy than any other. 
 
all religion is a hypocritical construct that forces gullibility through this idea of faith (or taking an idea to be true without any reason, or basically being conned into buying something you shouldn't). and the fact that people then use these arguments and beliefs to justify their intolerance while claiming to do good for people is just sickening. frankly religion is nothing more than poison and anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves.
 
+Alexander Herlan You are kind of rude. And "good people" telling them they are wrong? No.
My god? Fuck man! I just said I was agnostic, and I just explained what you wrote just now, only I was a little more civil about it.
 
Strange the article has been removed, perhaps the GOP felt threatened by it.
 
I make no apologies for my rudeness, just like Linus.   I expect these mormon bastards to convince me how their belief in fairtails is justified.  I seriously cant believe there are grown ass adults in 2012 who still lean on this stuff like a crutch.   Its a pathetic waste of time. I'm done.
 
If all they did was keep to themselves, i wouldn't be so rude.  But they hate gays.  They're on the wrong side of history and civil rights, and should be outright condemned for it.   Thats all I have to say about my tone. But indeed, a good rest would be good for me.
 
My favorite part of posts like this is that, in the comments section, people reveal themselves to be horrendous bigots. Were someone to be this openly critical of Islam, she or he'd be called a reactionary hateful fear monger. So many of the commenters on here are spineless hypocrites. How about, if your Otto is to let people live their lives, you let people live their lives instead of assuming a position of intellectual superiority because you're a hateful, insecure person.

If anything, I feel sorry for so many of you. We're supposed to strive for tolerance and understanding and instead you hurl insults and mean spirit at the people you know won't strike back at you the same way or worse.

You should be ashamed.
 
+Alexander Herlan well said to you and Linus, it really is time that we were allowed to criticise religion for the crap that it is and above all drive it from being a dominant force in politics. I have no objection to people having a private belief, but it's rarely not used as a stick to beat everyone else with these days.
 
Telling a homosexual they are wrong, evil, and are going to hell is being a Bigot.   Telling an adult they are an idiot for beliving in fairytails, is just the common sense of the literate.   
 
Doctrine and covenants, section 134, 4 reads as fallows.
We believe that religion is instituted of God ; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul.
I don't like the conscience of the Mormon text that I posted earlier. Nor do I want a person running this country that believe this crap, and Romney publicly pledges allegiance to the church. There goes woman's rights amongst others.
 
+Alexander Herlan "They" probably being fanatics; you can't lump them all together, that's like lumping me in with you.
 
+Alexander Herlan - I don't believe that I would be a 'bad' person without my faith, merely that I am a better person because of it.

As to the general need, a quick survey of the news or the general level of online civility should be sufficient to show that quite often humans need a little help understanding that they should play nice with each other.
 
A geek builds a half-assed do-it-yourself operating system, and suddenly he's an expert on world religions and US politics. Go back to your moms basement and pound some more code nobody is willing to pay for.
 
Wow, what a comments thread.  +1 Linus for telling it how it is, ie "Bat shit crazy".  
And the bat shit craziness is always helped by a religious community.  Without an essentially closed society, it's hard to keep bat shit crazy beliefs alive.
 Picking on the specifics doesn't matter, because all of them have some seriously crazy ideas, but without that community, they get skipped over as "just a historical anomaly  blah blah.  Compared to stoning people to death for collecting firewood on the Sabbath, magic underwear seems downright sane.  (or safer anyway).  The difference being how many of the religion in question actually follow through with it.
 
I think everyone has a right to believe what they want, I just don't want them heading up this country.
 
+Jono Scaife The existence of a higher power is not provable through science at this point in time. Neither is the non-existence of such a thing.

I would also direct your last line to +Linus Torvalds and many others in here: "...if you are getting your information second hand you need to open your eyes a little wider." Many of you are getting your information about LDS people & Mitt Romney second-hand (or third- or fourth- hand). Same with those out there who hate on all Muslims because they've heard Muslims hate all non-Muslims. Same with anyone who hates any group because they've been "told" something about that group of people. Hell, even if a person who is part of that group (or was a part of it) told you, it doesn't mean it's what the group teaches, or what the rest of the group believes.

In addition, the people who are voting against Romney BECAUSE he's LDS are acting like idiots. Just as people who are voting for him just BECAUSE he's LDS. The LDS Church's leaders have even said multiple times (like when Senator Reid was up for re-election) not to vote for or against a candidate based upon their religion (or lack of it).
 
On atheism.  A- for not, theism for belief in a gawd.  So, atheists don't believe the crap.  That's all.  As the t-shirt says, "atheism is a religion like not stamp collecting is a hobby".
So piss off with asking atheists to prove there's no god.  Anyway, "god exists" is a positive claim so the onus is on the believers to prove their claim.  And the best you can do is a god of gaps that is essentially like saying god is label we give to "I don't know".  I'm happy with the more honest "I don't know" personally.
 
Its interesting to me how rigorously atheists proselytize (my step-father is a strong advocate). If Atheism were a religion would it be persecuted more or less? Maybe then there could be state protection? And there could be a 501c3 tax-exempt organization to collect money for the betterment of Atheists everywhere.

Just a thought to think about things backwards. If we are willing to be open minded after all.
 
Believe me James Trevail, no one could be lumped with you. You only wish you could be lumped with the likes of thoughtful people. Such as Alexander. 
 
+Alexander Herlan again, I welcome you to go be this openly critical of Islam. The bigotry you reveal is in your selective outrage. You're afraid of offending Muslims as opposed to Mormons, I suspect, because while the latter tells you a lifestyle is immoral, the former will kill you for it.

If someone has a belief system that is in conflict with yours, then engage them civilly and show them a reason change their minds instead of throwing a fit and labeling them. demonstrate that your reasoning is superior.

And if you don't believe your actions are worthy of condemnation, why do you care if someone else - to whose belief system you don't subscribe anyway - does? 
 
Mormonism: the only religion literally pulled out of a hat. Brave level: so.
 
The US has an impressive record in outstanding religious leaders. Let us not forget The Rev Jimmy Swaggart, or the other one I forget his name who said he would never fill out an IRS tax form as according to the Bible, God never did either.  There was also the Wacko Cult and the ever increasing influence of the Church of Scientology. 

Now to add icing on the cake the US is falling for a man who believes that some tablets revealed a great deal to a man with a dubious past and who had an interest in special pants. It does not bode well for the country.

Also before I get the "you are an anti-Mormon" comment; i am not. If anyone said to any Mormon colleague or friend of mine that they would prevent them from practicing their faith (in private) I'd stand with them in fighting against that. However, I refuse to believe that the adding Mormonism to the religious doctrine of the Oval Office is going to be anything other than unhealthy. 
 
+John WM Most well said.  I fear it  will be lost ont he true believers, atheists included.
 
You guys don't understand what separation of church and state means... Do your research. The lds church will not be running the government and you don't have to be a member of any church to run for office. We are living separation of church and state.
 
A president should not let his religion dictate policy and values.
 
+John WM I'm not the one who believes in adult fairytails.  The bruden of proof is on you, not me.   Me calling you out on your bullshit isnt hurtful to the world.  The mormon religion lobbying against gay rights IS hurtful to the world.   Calling someone an idiot for literally being an idiot is not bigotry.   I'm sorry you're so weak willed you have to believe in adult fairytails to properly live your life.  I'm sorry me being "harsh" about the truth makes you want to lecture me instead of open your eyes and question authority, but I feel pretty strongly that mormonism is just silly and hurtful to the world, and being harsh to those people who support the obblishment of gay rights is totally justified.   I dont care if not all mormons hate gays.  Your religion inherently does, and you are wrong for it.
 
+John WM Bullshit. Religion hurts people, Islam hurts women the most, but all religion hurts people. This is why you'll find angry atheists, those are the people who suddenly discovered they've been taught bullshit all their lives. What do you expect people to do, turn the other cheek? Have "respect" for loony fairytales?
 
Is it really any more crazy than believing a huge boat made of pitchwood was able to hold two of every animal (without any of them acting as they would in nature and devouring other animals for sustenance) and also float through rainfall of six inches per minuute without sinking (that's the rate of rainfall required to cover Mount Everest in 40 days and 40 nights)? The fact is, that's BATSHIT CRAZY, too (and NEVER happened). That said, Mitt Romney is a huge asshole who has profited off of exporting jobs overseas and raiding companies. Or as a newspaper reported of his Great Grandfather, "A Pile of Putrid Puss". I would agree with that sentiment being accurate to describe Romney and add to it a steaming pile of shit.
 
+Timothy Cook I know quite a few Muslims that are that way. They don't believe in that but they would never tell their families for fear of reprisals. Sad.
 
I am sick of Mormons knocking my front door and preaching crap to me. So that is the image I have of mormons. A bad call if a  mormon wants to run the country. Keep religion out of it. Is it just me, or is Romney theeee bitchiest presidential candidate ever? Less bitching and more nitty gritty I say. Cheer Linus for highlighting the "batshit crazy" card. Good call.
 
Have a hard time believing that LT would actually post this.
 
+Rodney Peterson - Exactly what Rodney said! I remember talking to my buddy, who just so happens to be atheist, about some Scientologist jokes. He looked at me, knowing what faith I subscribed to, and said, "You know, Willie, I don't separate yours and their religion into acceptable and weird. It's all equally inane to me!" Leave it to atheists to tell you the straight up, honest truth how they see it. You gotta respect that!
 
Religions and beliefs are against human being and intelligence.
Period.
 
Mormons are nice people indeed :)
 
The fact that this link is being discussed is a step in the rite direction. I studies multiple religious interpretations while in my first year of college and for me it was all about being good and believing something was above yourself! I have worked and been to/with many mormon believers and I've learned there is alot of division from parents that chose that religion and children that left it but, that can be said about all religious sects and thoughts. For the most part I've seen mormans be very structured in family's and raising children to make something of themselves. I reminded me of the structure I've seen first hand in my high school friends jewish households. I thank whatever it takes to put people on the rite track to be successful is great!! Not that I'm going to believe it though.
 
As opposed to all other religions that aren't batshit crazy? Including the one that requires ritual circumcision? The one where every time you eat bread you're eating your god's body? The one where the holy prophet married a 9 year old and said that salt and fresh water can't mix? Those are the "normal" ones?
 
An I the only one who thinks that James Trevail is a mean spirited, argumentative, little twit?
 
+Dustin Jones Yer right man. They are all seriously fu***d up. The world would be a better place without any of them.
 
Spot on.  From yet another atheist.  Well said Linus.
 
+Daniel Alberson how is not releasing your tax information "BECAUSE PF RELIGIOUS PURPOSES" a seperation of church and state?
 
I find it comical that anyone thinks they can claim they understand any religion by reading an article from someone like this "hardcore Mormon"

The app store for Apple and Google have an app called LDS Gospel Library, that contains all the teachings of the LDS church for the last 30 years that all the "hardcore Mormons" believe. If it's not in there, it's not accepted as gospel and is just speculation or a personal belief.

I've studied many different religions and have never found the opinion of a hater to be anything other than ignorant of the religions true beliefs. There is no harm in learning as much as you can about a religion (or any subject of interest for that matter), just make sure you consider the source of your information first.
 
relegious criticism go and live a month in tel-aviv(named after an abcient prison).
 
I don't know if anybody already mentioned the clergyproject.org. It is a forum for active and former clergy who do not hold supernatural beliefs. Amazing how many clergy is concerned. And think about their situation. It's the same as those people talking to linus as an atheist instead of talking to their families. Not easy.
 
thanks you James. i am a mormon since i was 8 i am 57 now. we are christian. we believe in god and jesus,, yes we have a book of mormon  . it is a history book really.. we have a temple to do the work for the dead. we commit ourselves to promises to our heavenly father.. the ones with more than one wife now are not a part of our latter day saints chuch... they are fundelmentalists.. we are not like the scientolgoy.. wrong there.
 
Nah, I just choose not to let my life be governed by a religion. No matter how freaky.
 
+Thames Sinclair do you know this about hinduism from first hand experience or are you extrapolating? Schrödinger, Tesla, Einstein etc didnt think so about hinduism.
 
+linda dumoulin how do you justify that the Mormon teachings you know are any more "correct" than any of the other THOUSANDS of religions we've discovered on this planet?  Why cant you be a good person without them?  Why do you associate with a church that believes in magical underwear?  That just makes you sound crazy.  Why cant we just agree some things Mormonism teaches are good, but overall religions are bad, and inherently cult like?  It shouldnt take such faith and devotion to be a good person.  It comes pretty naturally to most. 
 
Awesome post. As a former Mormon and Windows user, I'm going to compile the kernel with all the modules, sit back, and enjoy the evening...
 
You'll have a terrible evening if you load all the modules. How bloaty.
 
+Linus Torvalds You atheist? It's your business. I swear by name of God, I not mad or hate. I respect your "belief". good luck with that. And don't forget, keep on updating the "kernel", thank you so much anyway. Really nice work.

+Duško Simidžija Thank you for saying Islam hurts women the most (I'm not asking why you say this, I'm sure it becoming long debate). May God forgiving you. (Yeah, I'm Muslim)

To All guys, let spend time with quality. Don't lose our friendship (Google say it circle), because we have different "credence", we still live in same earth, aren't we ? Don't make any war again, enough samsung and Iphone. :D.

I'm sorry, if something wrong with my comment. May God bless you all.
 
I would rather have a personal connection with God than religion . Religion kills the soul and even the old testament bible is called the ministration of death and condemnation - the purpose , to point us to something better..
 
+irwan ak I don't think you do respect Linus' viewpoint. Otherwise you would not be so aggressive towards his belief.
 
you are the stupidest people on the faace of the earth
 
+sebastian sanchez Why do you say that? Is it because you let religion govern your life? Or is it perhaps because you see people arguing over religion? Which is always what happens when religion gets discussed on the internet.
 
Regardless of your position, Christian, Atheist, Mormon, the difference between Classic (Orthodox or traditional) Christian verses Mormon can be summed up in one principal belief. And that one belief is also that which differentiates the Classic Christian from all others that are normally listed as cult.

That is: Christian's believe that Jesus is God Himself. They express it in the Trinitarian Doctrine: God is in three persons, The Father, The Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. These three are separate but co-equally one. they have always existed.

The Mormons believe that Jesus is the son of God the Father, but that they are not the same. They teach that God (Adam) the Father existed before Jesus and that Jesus is less (in power, God development etc.) then God the Father.

You can choose to believe one or the other, or something else... but that is the basic clash and difference between the two theologies.

It is so strong that regardless of denomination or non-denomination (Roman Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Assembly of God, Church of Christ, Pilgrim Holiness, Lutheran, Episcopal, Independent, Congregational) they all consider the Church of Later Day Saints to be a cult. Therefore, they see the adherents of the LDS (Mormons) as non-Christian, and not saved (or outside of the will and direction of God.)
 
+David Gillooly writes "Christ would disown 90% of the Christians living today."

Actually, more than a few believers would agree, though most would include themselves in the 10%.  Matthew 7:22-23:

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'  Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"
 
+Keith Terrill It's the same as ever. The Christians say all other religions are nasty. Or words to that effect. All religions say other religions are fake. The whole idea of religion is fake / crazy. Oh and here come the crazy quotes from the crazy book. I'll bet Linus is loving this. 
 
+Dan Wetzel Er, when I said second hand, I was referring to deep introspective ponderings of the universe and its nature and shit like that, as opposed to shit written in a book or shit somebody said somebody else said. What I mean is, unless you have actually used your own mind to come to your own conclusions about shit, then I don't think its worth a hell of a lot. Words only convey so much meaning the rest is up to you.

And so what if science can't explain things? Science is at the pinnacle of human knowledge. Its not always correct and its always changing, but its forward momentum is what is important, unlike dogma it adapts to new information over time, that's why (as a frame work) it is the best possible way to view the world. One day it might explain things, one day it might not, who the fuck knows? But at least whatever conclusions we eventually end up at will be backed up by some sort of evidence.    
 
+Linus Torvalds I agree, Romney has "closet non-believer" written all over him. He is too good at changing his mind to please certain groups of people for me to believe that he actually has any tenets, religious or otherwise. That's what makes him so dangerous. He will do anything to please the crowd.
 
So glad people are finally speaking up about how batshit crazy all religions are. We shouldn't just stand there and let our political correctness keep us silent. Thanks, Linus
 
my belief is not in a religion.   I believe in Jesus Christ the son of our living God. and in his word.
 
+Malky Brown I do respect him, brother. I can imagine if world don't have +Linus Torvalds and Mr. Stallman, maybe we always tied up using software/OS, never consider how it works and share knowledge to others, moreover we never have/learn "how working together". Never enough to say thanks to +Linus Torvalds  and Mr. Stallman.

And because I'm belief in God and Muslim, in my belief, we must respect other human rights, that the most important "right" is belief in something, which always we called it "faith". It's based on Holy Quran (http://quran.com/109). Feel free to correct me. 
 
+Linus Torvalds wrote:  "magic underwear is actually a much less damaging belief than (for example) the "priests cannot marry" belief."

True enough, but Mormonism (and many strains of Christianity, Islam, and even Humanism) have other beliefs that induce similar levels of sexual frustration, hypocrisy, and violence.

Also, the "priests cannot marry" belief is actually in opposition to scripture, for what it's worth.  1st Timothy chapter 3 spells out the requirements for an elder or overseer (which a priest essentially is) and notes that they must be a married man with a good track record of managing their own family before they can be allowed to be placed over others.  Curiously, 1 Tim 3:2 is used to condemn polygamy, but is used falsely.  In the original language it is stated that an elder must be "a man of a wife" (a married man) but in that language "a" and "one" is the same word.  However, monogamy is a Roman institution and later this verse was used to support the abolition of polygamy even though nothing else in the scriptures even hints at condemnation, and many portions presume polygamy to be lawful.

All that said, most religions have some batshit crazy beliefs or interpretations, as do most secular belief systems.  If one is to judge a religion by how well it adapts its followers to succeed in the world, Mormons do reasonably well, though they have some notable weak points.
 
+irwan ak I get the impression the christians say all other religions are fake.
 
So I'm supposed to listen to a guy that invented an OS give me advice about religion?
 
I do know Christ is alive and well in all of our homes you can say what ever you want to. but we all have our issues.
 
+Rick Scheibner  No, you have a choice and live in a land where you can decide whether to let  someone influence you or not.
Pedro Borges
+
99
100
99
 
See, I respect someone who chooses to believe something, and I respect it even more when it's an educated decision (even if I disagree). But I feel like a lot of people commenting here are being quick to call religious people crazy and that they only believe the stuff they do because of their social situation, but, I would suggest to consider your own beliefs and see how well they stand up against refute, and to also recognize that there are social reasons for you to believe what you believe.
 
+Jason Steinberger it appears you do not have a proper understanding of the basic Christian doctrine as found in the 66 collective books known as the Bible. The truth is taught that each is responsible for his or her actions, and that each has the right to choose their own action. One way it has been said is: You can choose to sin, but you can not choose the consequences.

Unfortunately there are those who preach a gospel that does say that their God will get them out of any problem they are in, or will fix a problem, or grant them something they want. These are the ones that forget that the prophet Jeremiah (two books in the Bible by him) was rejected by his people, thrown into a prison pit, had his first book destroyed, and eventually exiled to Egypt. Not at all the life style those "Christians" would expire to.

Then there is there own Jesus. He started out with thousands, then hundreds, then a small band, and eventually betrayed by one of his own, and put to death with only one (John) at his feet. Not one of those "Christians" would even begin to consider a pastor as a man of God with that history.

And the man Jesus himself made this wonderful claim (found in the book of John): the world will hate you, hurt you, and kill you, because it hates me first, hurts me first, and will kill me. Remember the slave is not greater than the master. If the master is so treated, so will the slave!

The message of the Bible, from cover to cover, and the central theme of the Christian message is this:

There is a God. He has a plan (for your life, too). If you do not follow His plan (you should because it is the best for you) you have missed His leading (in Hebrew that is called Missing the Mark and is known by the word SIN). All who sin are heading to Hell (which was NOT created for humans). The only way to keep from ending up in Hell, and the only way to get with His plan is to Die a sinless death. But since you cannot because you have sinned, you have to accept the offer of the one who died the sinless death on your behalf.

Now, if you have read this far... here is the question:

How are you able to solve your own problem of heading to hell?
Or how are you able to solve the problem of getting on the best life course for you?

and are you sure?
and is that working for you?
Tim Oster
+
1
3
4
3
 
Religion is best if kept private. You can believe what ever you want, but keep it out of my government.
 
The problem is not with Mormon. The issue only is of the degree of "batshit craziness" in different religions and belief systems. As long as they peddle mythology as truth the problem remains. Mormonism is no worse (or better) than other forms of Christianity or Islam or any other such religion. I agree with +Tim Oster  above, keep religion (and your beliefs in FSM) private.
 
I just want to say thank you +Linus Torvalds for not being afraid to be say you're an Atheist. Religion needs to be discussed so we can remove the taboo of questioning someones beliefs when it could effect us all.
 
Balaji, Mormonism is not "a form of Christianity."
 
Grew up Mormon and now a Free Agnostic.  To each his own and the freedom to speak out against crazy or believe crazy.   Starts from a group using fears or wishes of a larger group to gain control over them. A lie is best told between two truths.  From that power is gained.  Some great people just wanting a path laid out for them and there are many groups willing to give the cheese they want in return for their time, money, devotion, and recruitment of others.  That way in any established religion.  Much like G+! ;-)  Good things are done in religion, nothing is all bad, but I believed it to be more bad than good for myself and my family.  Ahhh Freedom and Openness is a great thing, parallel Linux?
Crazy will be Obama's trump card against Romney...wait for it, but the tad bit crazier Trinity Church (who haven't swept thier racism under rug, like LDS)  will get a pass by media.  Romney loses by a margin as thin as J Smith's Vision account, or Obama's claim that he didn't hear any controversial racist statements at the Trinity Church.
Crazier that neither party will really do what's needed to stop the fleecing of the U.S. as they both have stakes in their ideologies that will not uphold their promises to protect the country, regulate what's needed now and drop unnecessary taxes and regulations and uphold laws rather than go after states that do.
 
I believe that far too many here fail to see how they're repeating history, specifically Germany, 1936.

You say, to each his own, but then condemn what you have no more than the very shallowest understanding of.  Here's something you should understand: Science is a religion.  It has a priesthood, temples, tribute, and requires belief in doctrines which simply can't be proven true or false.  Worse, its acolytes run about trying to establish it as the de facto religion, while vilifying competing philosophies, even raising them to the level of demons, and advocating for their destruction.  How is this better than the very worst examples from history of the abuses of religion?  It isn't.  'Science' has now traded places with the church in the old case of Galileo vs. the Pope.  And it (science) is just as wrong.

Moreover, if you actually put that critical thinking you claim to use to practical use, and start studying some of those religions, you might just learn that they are all science in disguise.  Well, almost all.  I mean, given the yardstick of science as the underpinning of religion, it's not too hard to weed out the nonsensical, me-too religions.  I won't name names, but, there are religions utterly devoid of things like 'God said let there be light' or 'Buddha was born from the side of a great, white elephant'.  I know, it sounds weird, but it's all just allegory, like calling a train an iron horse.  Get over it.  It's science just the same, and by eyewitnesses no less.

And you might want to look up the thunderbolts project videos on youtube.  They're made by real scientists, not you wannabes and fanbois.

And, as for you, Linus, and the 'exmo's here, shame on you.  Just shame on you.
 
what if the religion is science? there are a lot of parallels. the universities are like modern cathedrals where the young are stamped with lots of ridiculous notions that are called theories but taken as fact. I think some are just as bat shit crazy as the (insert whatever religion)   are.
 
^Not sure if trolling or can't tell the difference between the two?
 
+duane attaway
Actually no. We just don't drop them until they tell us.  There is formal letter you just have to right and it's over.  Tell your local church leader.
 
As much as i like Mr. Torvalds and respect his computer knowledge and prowess, he proves once again that expertise in one area does not automatically convey expertise in another. On "matters religious," Linus is no expert. In fact, he is not even a very good amateur when it comes to discussing or knowing anything about Religion. Glad he and others don't think in such a scattered and misinformed way when they are programming. :-)
 
There are no experts on"matters religious", just like there aren't any on "green little Martians", unless you aver that mindless herding needs expertise, in which case, it doesn't need a Linus.
 
Bored?  Lonely?  Just playing the troll?  Because that ranks among the silliest attempts at provocation I've ever read.

Given the number of experts in Sociology, Political Science, Global Warming, Women's studies, and even Klingon, how is it that there can be no experts in religion?  Unless, as you insinuate, religion has nothing to do with history, science, or psychology, not to mention linguistics, epigraphy, and epistemology.  In which case you're just showing off your ignorance and bigotry.  But why would anyone do that?
 
Lol so dum bb commentrs ikrr and poster dumb rtoo

 
Peoplle are still commenting on this?  Wow, boring!
Add a comment...