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Any gnome3 knowledgeable people out here?

I broke down, and upgraded my old aging Fedora install on my desktop. Simply because my old F14 comes with ancient X versions that don't contain all the fixes to make intel 3D really work well. And yes, things really do work better on the graphical side.

But with F17 comes gnome3. And I knew I'd have trouble, but also knew that most of the worst crap could be fixed with extensions, and I'd used 3.4 on my laptop enough to know it should be all somewhat usable.

But christ, it's a "one step forward, one step back" kind of thing. Change the font sizes? No can do - until you install the tweak tool, because the standard  settings panel still doesn't do something as fundamental as that. Ok, I knew it used to be broken, I knew the work-around, but it's still broken?

So I go to extensions.gnome.org, and install the panel favorites extension that not only obviates the need for the stupid dual "first go to activities, then go to favorites", but also fixes it so that I can get multiple terminals without doing the whole "three times widdershins and left-click" dance. That gets things usable.

And then I want auto-hide. But now extensions.gnome.org says "You do not appear to have an up to date version of GNOME3". Oh? So 3.4.1 (current F17 as of today) isn't up-to-date enough? Oh wait, no, it's actually just that the chrome plugin seems broken. Fire up firefox instead - now it works. And I can get panel settings and enable auto-hide so that I don't need to look at that butt-ugly thing that has clearly been designed by some goth teenager that thinks that black is cool.

But where did the "Lock Screen" button go? I can still find +Sriram Ramkrishna's extension by searching for it, but it's grayed out - and apparently for a reason. It doesn't seem to work any more.

And how do I add --enable-webgl --ignore-gpu-blacklist to the google chrome favorites entry?  I'm pretty sure I was able to edit the startup details for the favorites in some version of gnome3 with some random installed extensions (probably the frippery set), but it's impossible to find now.

I have to say, I used to think that the "extensions.gnome.org" approach to fixing the deficiencies in gnome3 was really cool. It made me go "Ahh, now I can fix the problems I had".

But it turns out to be a major pain, when it basically ends up as a really magical way to customize your desktop, which breaks randomly and has no sane way to do across machines. And the extensions seem to randomly break when you update the system, so they don't work as well as they would if they just came with the base system.

End result: extensions.gnome.org may be a really cool idea, but it seems to have some serious usability problems in practice. And the whole gnome3 approach of "by default we don't give you even the most basic tools to fix things, but you can hack around things with unofficial extensions" seems to be a total UX failure.

Who do I need to fuck to get standard font size and panel options, instead of having to wade through this kind of "unsupported and random extensions that look ugly as hell and break randomly" crap? Maybe if I told people I was going blind, and claimed the font size was an "accessibility" feature, people would care? Never mind that I want to make the fonts smaller.
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494 comments
Paulo Dias
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Easy, just use KDE :) Give it a try again linus, you might like what you`ll see :)
 
There's a reason I use a mac now.  After many years of being a Linux desktop advocate.  I got sick of trying to defend it.
 
As far as the font sizes go - in the "Universal Access" (aka Accessibility) settings panel, there is in fact a font size control - with options "Small", "Normal", "Large", "Larger". (I still use the tweak tool to change font sizes though.)
 
Installing Fedora 17  today on a Fujitsu Tablet.  Hoping that it's usable in a tablet.
 
A big +1 for +Paulo Dias ' suggestion...KDE now drop-kicks every other UI I've seen.  4.5 was buggier than a summer evening in South Carolina but the newer stuff is awesome.
 
Are you OK Linus? Did you try the Beer extension?
 
My solution has always been simply to use xfce.
 
Smoke a bowl bro, you'll feel better.
 
Hey Linus, launch the "alacarte" app (aka "Main Menu") app to edit launchers, favourited or not.
 
I was on Fedora for a long time, but when it refused to login after an update, wiped, and had the same issue, I decided I was done with it for a while. I currently use Ubuntu on my laptop, and use it sparingly. I guess I'm tired of fighting the computer to get basic stuff done. I currently spend my time almost exclusively in Windows 7 Pro.
 
Gnome 3 definitely needs lots of control
 
I think the MaryJane extension and Linus' preferred CaffeineByTheTruckload extension may be incompatible. :D
 
This may seem a bit ironic but dude you should make your own distro. You know the stuff that sucks and could possibly make a distro that doesn't suck. 
 
I think it needs a beefy miracle to configure...
 
I think the point is that here we are how many years into the "Linux Desktop" and we still don't have stupid things like font settings in the UI settings w/o having to hack through or find a work around or tweak or something.
 
I agree with +Linus Torvalds on all counts regarding gnome3.  Not sure how to fix the chrome favorites entry but you should be able to affect the --enable-webgl and --ignore-gpu-blacklist changes by going to chrome://flags
 
Why do you stick to Fedora? No alternative or it is fundamental?
 
I think the trend across the industry now is to write software quickly, miss out usability completely, and put lots of bugs in, but increase the version number a lot an make it look pretty. Everyone is doing it.
 
+Mark Wright I have heard great things about mint. I would personally recommend Crunchbang Linux; super lightweight, fast, and I haven't had any bugs yet.
 
What a sad story! Can´t get Gnome3 to work for me,too! They should do something like the "classic mode" in Windows to get the old UI feeling back! 
 
+Michael McCambridge  If you hold the Alt key while in the shutdown menu it turns "Suspend" into "Power Off"  This can also be fixed with the gnome-tweak-tool
 
I've been avoiding Gnome 3 until the bugs get shaken out, sorry.
 
I actually like gnome 3 (now I should get ready for some beating). For webgl thing, you need alacarte, but maybe a tip: if you want to save space, you can use a mutter theme that hides the titlebar when maximized lik majestic mod reloaded (i'd give you a link when i would be at my computer)
 
wait until you get it all working, and then live through gnome-shell crashing every time you close a firefox window.
Jan Mercl
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I'm stuck with Ubuntu 10.10 only because I don't want to leave gnome2 as long as I have no reliable replacement for it. Maybe some future version of gnome(3.x, 4?), but I see not so much hope in that :-(

PS: And don't let me start about Unity...
 
I know you have legitimate questions that need answered, but I had a chuckle when I saw that the creator of linux was asking for help with a somewhat linux related issue. 
 
Amen! I tried to try Fedora 17, but as long as I can't install Mate nor Cinnamon, it's a no-go on my side...
 
I've tried out a ton of different environments the last few months just to see what worked best for me - in the end I chose to go w/ Xfce and AWN - runs fast & does everything the way I want
 
+Gabriel Abejon Most command line flags can only be changed at launch time, in kubuntu they stay in /etc/defaults/chromium, might be the case with fedora. But yes, on the fly flags can be changed by the method you said.
 
Linus, have you tried the latest Version of Mint?  It's not using the latest kernel, but you might find it quite a bit more usable than Fedora.
Alan Cox
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The "I want control" switch for Gnome 3 is Xfce basically. Xfce does what you tell it and exposes all the stuff you need to make a desktop work sanely. It may not be a good desktop for random off the street dude but its a good hacker desktop.
 
I totally agree with you.  Gnome3, in my eyes, is total failuresauce.  Complete lack of regard for the enduser's needs.  I went ahead and installed MATE, which is a fork of Gnome 2.  I must say that even though my current distro comes with Gnome3 default, I never use it.  It's MATE all the way!
 
The best kernel - Linux, the best DVCS - git... What about the best desktop environment? ;)
 
Seems like you do not need help with Gnome 3 just a good drink and maybe something fun like bowling... or a hour at the shooting range :)
 
The question to me seems not so much to be "who do I need to fuck to get...", but rather "why the fuck would I bear with something like that". I am sure you have heared it before, but just for good measure: Try xfce.
And the good thing: You will still be able to find some reason for anger there too, but it does not hurt that much :-).
 
This is why I stick with KDE4 on openSuSE. To quote a huge, evil computer & software company: It just works.
 
+Victor Antonovich - Right now, I would say that the best executed is by far KDE, but Cinnamon has a whole lot of promise and is my preference.
 
Wait until you get it all working=wait until you  become an old man.
 
they all took something we HAD earlier, many many settings, now its like we have to wait for it again for years? WTF is goin on!? still unity is better.
 
Gnome 3 fallback is the one that works the best!
 
You could always use kde. I find 4.8 quite reliable and very fast.
 
+Calvin Walton: hey, I was so close. I hadn't realized that there were font settings in the accessibility settings thing, I had only looked at the one in the panel that has the other accessibility settings - the ones nobody cares about.

But changing the font sizes in that one actually seems to deadlock gnome-shell, I needed to go the the VC and do a "killall -9 gnome-shell" to get things back. Fine, bugs I don't mind, they'll get fixed. It's not the level of font control I want, and it's not under a "Fonts" setting, but it's better than nothing.
 
Try Gnome 3 from Debian Wheezy, it's a best!
 
These are core accessibility as well as usability issues too: I wish I had time to work on them full time!
 
As for the lock screen button, CTRL-ALT-L is the keyboard shortcut, if that's at all helpful.
 
for terminal thing:
Click drag...
For shout down:
press [alt] while in the "me" menu or install the extension... it is rely the only extension I use...
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After Gnome 2, I flirted with most of the big name desktops.  Finally settled on KDE.  Seems more stable than Gnome 3 and far more customisable.
 
That's why I load cinnamon on fc17.  Gnome3 just screams, run away.
 
I've dropped a .desktop file in ~/.local/share/applications with the command line dance for Chromium, and Gnome3 has picked it up.
 
I'm with you... I hate it when they remove previously available options! Why the hell can't they (dev's in general) give options!? Not everyone likes everything the same way, why not simply let each one customize the look and feel to their on liking?
 
+Linus Torvalds Have you tried Cinnamon? I know it's basically a fork of Gnome 3 but it has a lot of useful stuff added already. I don't know about the app launching with parameters though.
But you might be able to edit their .desktop file directly so it should work everywhere. (OT: How does this bold stuff work here)
 
I'm throwing my vote for cinnamon as well.  Using Mint 13 with cinnamon and haven't had crash or bad experience yet.
 
+Chase Hatch "Something about big, bulky, rounded window borders with special effects and taskbar's you can't customize is a real turnoff.   There is just so much flaw in the way the U/I is set up.  Most of it revolves around allowing customization that makes it work for the user." - Are you talking about MacOS???? ;)
 
Something about big, bulky, rounded window borders with special effects and taskbar's you can't customize is a real turnoff.   There is just so much flaw in the way the U/I is set up.  Most of it revolves around allowing customization that makes it work for the user.
 
"crap", "pain", "hell" - Exactly! I could tell you how to forget these words but you wouldn't like it.
Alan Cox
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+Victor Antonovich I'd love to see a Linus designed desktop, but if he could stop off and do something about pam and login authorisation on the Linux distros on the way... 8)
 
"Who do I need to fuck to get standard font size and panel options"

You just killed me. I agree though, I am on Fedora 17 & Gnome 3.4 on my desktop and laptop as well.
 
+Paul Williams I've never been a KDE fan.  I do like cinnamon on fc, it feels great on there.  I just went back to rhel6 so I could enjoy my gnome2.
 
I have been using Cinnamon on 16 and 17. Works well and gives me the Font experience that I need.
 
I think the command you're looking for is: sudo yum install @kde-desktop
At least it will fix your font problems... you can have a different font/size for every line of text on the screen. I wish I could tell you where the happy medium between Gnome protecting you from any options and KDE giving you way too many is. It might be XFCE.
 
I finally settled on adding cinnamon, gnome3 made me too cranky. Cinnamon isn't gnome2 but at least it's not gnome3.
 
Xfce what i use. I hate unity and gnome3 in my ubuntu.
 
I solved the Gnome problem by moving to Mint from standard Ubuntu. I looked at the Ubuntu interface and I preferred to have an older, simpler desktop where everything works. I think that the new Gnome has the same, impractical focus on eye candy instead of the easily available drop-down menus.
 
+Linus Torvalds PFMJI ... What I did is to get dconf-editor (I use Ubuntu 12.04; so this is in package dconf-tools ... Chances are the package name is something similar on Fedora?) and then do the following changes to Gnome 3:

org > gnome > shell > overrides

And in there I disabled / changed:

button-layout:    :minimize,maximize,close
dynamic-workspaces:    (deactivated)
edge-tiling:   (deactivated)
workspace-only-on-primary:   (deactivated)

Result:

It doesn't create new workspaces at random any more.

And then I got myself cairo-dock and there I told the switcher applet how many static workspaces I want. Worked for me.

For font sizes:  You need to get gnome-tweak-tool ... Nope, it's not there by default. You need to get it from your distro's repos or find it on the Internet.

It does have a setting where it can tweak the fonts and make them smaller. Also the Text scaling factor setting may help there.

As for extensions:  I'd recommend these:

- Alternative Status Menu: gives you a "Shutdown" command in the status menu without having to press any extra keys

- Apps Menu:  Gives you a Gnome 2.x style application menu in the upper left corner, just where it used to be for Gnome 2.x

- Drive Menu:  Let's you unmount/eject stuff via an "Eject" icon in the upper panel

- Windows Navigator: Let's you use the keyboard when Alt-Tabbing between windows ... I find this useful.

- Workspace Navigator:  Let's you use the cursor keys in the Activities overview; this way you're waaaaay faster and switching between desktops is much less of a hassle. I personally find this useful and fail to see why it's not there by default ... Oh well.


Sorry if I forgot anything. Hope this helped ... ?

EDIT:

+Linus Torvalds Sorry for necroposting, but I thought this might interest you ...

Forget the "Application Menu" extension I mentioned above. Just delete it. There's a far better looking alternative:

"Axe Menu" ... available here:
https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/327/axe-menu/

It just looks very nice (reminds me of how SUSE's menu used to look ...) and behaves in a sane way. The "Activities" menu point gets moved to the right (looks like the Mac OS X icon for the 'Command' key ...).

I thought you might be interested. Gnome 3.x looks waaaay better with this.

Screenshot from my own desktop:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1614648/tmp/Gnome3_Axe-Menu_Screenshot.jpg


I hope this helped ... ?
 
Another +1 for KDE Linus. I used to love GNOME, but the 3 versions do not deliver. KDE 4.8 is back on track imo
 
But but but "use it, you will love it" - that is what I was told when I started asking questions about it :( I still hate it, though I managed to get it closer to usable by mocking with it a lot.

In Fedora 17 you have to install gnome-shell-extension-alternative-status-menu-3.4.0-1.fc17.noarch to get the sane menu with a lock and power-down button instead of the 'you always want to suspend and nothing else, because we think it is good for you'.
 
+Linus Torvalds, just for the sake of curiosity, which font do you like? :)
I'm for "5th leg" font from openSUSE or "SESketch" from Sony-Ericsson phones
 
+Linus Torvalds I am very satisfied with KDE 4.8 on my Arch desktop. It is highly customizable - you could configure it as you wish. You should give KDE a second chance. :)
 
Sorry Linus, I'd say "I feel your pain", but I gave up on Gnome a couple of years ago.  We currently run Xubuntu with Xfce.  It may not be as full featured as Gnome, but it doesn't make you pull your hair out either.  Which is a good thing when you have as little hair left as I do ;)
 
Try PCLinuxOS, we got all the good stuff, KDE 4.8.3, XFCE, LXDE, E-17, IceWM, WindowMaker, OpenBox, FluxBox...
 
Not that KDE4 is a panacea but it's easy to change the fonts there.  System Settings -> Appearance -> Fonts

Perhaps try something that's not in the big two.  I've heard good thing about both Xfce and LXDE.  I actually use a mix of KDE4 (the panels work mostly the way I like) and XMonad (substitute a different tiling WM if you want the configuration to be in a different language; they basically all have the same features.)
 
So much peanut gallery commentary but from the lazywebs but so few actually trying to help. Bollocks.
 
It might prove of little comfort but the gnome extension web stuff used to work better with Gnome 3.2...
 
i think the same!!! gnome3 shell and unity is not for simples mortal peoples!!! 
find basic applications it's a big parturition, even for me, i'm gnome user since 5 years.
i hope this resolved, linux for the world.
when a need a personalization for gnome-shell... whait!!! gnome was crashed!!!
 
+Linus Torvalds You could go with Cinnamon, which is pretty much a less broken gnome 3, and can be easily made to feel like gnome 2.
 
Just a quick question, is this some kind of meme or some wild bet or why the hell do I always see people trying to talk Linus into using Mac OS X and it happned to +Greg Kroah-Hartman  as well.
Even if they weren't Kernel developers, this is so weird, doesn't anyone see how the OS X is becoming more locked down and less of a generic operating system every fucking day?
It might have a Unix heritage but that locked down bunch of idiocy is a bad joke. At least on Linux you can fork the desktop if you don't like it
 
3 clicks to change font size in KDE.  Just sayin'.
 
If it was just the font sizes ... it's just about everything they stopped letting you configure. I can't even rearrange items on my task bar anymore, it's a nightmare. I ended up having to suck it up and - gasp - use Unity 
 
Can somebody help me out with finding the extension mentioned by Linus that will open a new terminal rather than switch to whatever is open? I always forget to right click "new window" when opening a terminal and instead it just throws me to whatever terminal I have open, even on a different workspace. Pisses me off no end, would really appreciate as I can't find the extension.
 
I, like many others, was frustrated with the shift to GNOME 3. Thankfully, Mint 11 still uses GNOME 2. However, support for this is not going to last forever. I thought about this, and realized that I only want to get my work done, and the desktop is merely a means to that end. After the installation of the XFCE desktop I can do what I want to do without spending time and energy on things that do not contribute to my productivity.
 
+Niklas Schnelle I'm not trying to convince anyone.  But after spending 15 years with open source, I found I was spending more time trying to get it to work than actually doing something useful, and one person like me will never make any headway on a forked desktop, it's just too big a project.  Say what you want about Mac, is just works, and as I grow older and lose the idealism that counts for a lot.  I still have a linux server and a laptop running Fedora sitting around, but for day to day, I'm sick of it.
 
when basic options stop requiring an extension/app then I'll maybe use g3.. oh wait, no I won't, I use xfce..
 
They have lots of cool ideas but missing many many key requirements! I was hoping they will get fixed by gnome 3.4
Although, there are some improvements, you can not disable screen-locking, unless by some crazy gsetting command!
 
now try to search for a document... for me that is a step back.
Tried the bigger font and they work, however is not the idea...
I agree with all of your points today, but I still love this, and I'm no emo but black is cool XD
 
Hi Linus,
Welcome back to the aggravating world of next generation Desktop Environments. Somebody somewhere decided it was time to switch to interfaces that look like tablet interfaces, and not have even the most basic of configuration options (or it might confuse the clueless user). I don't know who that is, but if you see him/her please say "Hi" for me.
The only usable DE I found is MATE which is basically a fork of Gnome 2 on newer libraries. It is a young project though and I'm not sure if it will compile on Fedora. 
Cinnamon is not bad too, but only if you like it out of the box as it is not very configurable too.
If none of these work for you,  I'm afraid the only option left is XFCE.
 
All good points without even hitting on my biggest pet-peeves with gnome 3. The whole thing is just such a travesty.
 
That is why I use straight X11+i3wm. 
 
Gnome3 is still in an immature state of development, Unity however has become really well done.
 
It was the fault of some of these problems that left the Gnome!
 
I used to use Mate as a Gnome 2 lookalike, and now I'm using Cinnamon which is built on G3, but done pretty well - I have all the things I need, except for the annoying feature that is inability to connect my laptop to a projector. 
 
Yea +Linus Torvalds gnome3 franking big mistake for Linux I love Linux to death but 3 makes me sad however just a suggestion to you friend try Linux Mint 12 gnome its got the best of both worlds hope all works out for you....and thanks for bringing Linux to the world MS nor Apple have nothing on this great invention :) cheers
 
Gentoo linux still has gnome2 by default and plenty of xorg versions to chose from. :)
 
I really tried very hard for a few months to like Gnome3. In the end, I just felt that I had too little control. And rather than spend more time Googling "How do I do so and so in Gnome3", I finally gave up and returned to KDE. Because if the choice is between too many options or too few options, I go for too many because at least I can fiddle with the options I want to fiddle with. Gnome3, if you ask me, shows a blatant lack of respect for the user of the system. "Let's hide all the scary bits and bobs from the poor user".
When KDE4 first came out, it was very poor indeed but now with 4.8, things have really matured and it is very fast.

As to setting the default font size, from the top of my head:
From gnome-tweak-tool has a section where you can change fonts, set sizes, etc. Good luck!
 
+Alan Cox while I agree that Xfce is probably where I need to go these days, but I used to use Gnome back in the day when it was a reasonable desktop library suite, and it frustrated me to no end to see the exodus of good, minimalist developers from Gnome, just prior to Gnome 2. The writing was on the wall then, and it was mostly due to the fact that Xfce was starting to draw that audience away. I really wish that Gnome had not been left to the "you will like our UI and you will like it!" crowd.
 
I loved gnome2 but since they screwed things up big time I've tried KDE, lxde and xfce on my Arch-laptop, and xfce is by far the best one out there. Should try Awesome some day. :)
 
Haiku
UI CHANGE 2012
i hate this tablet bullshit
taskbars were fine.


Seriously though, When did a list of apps, a variety of taskbars on every screen, and all of this other nonsense become Intuitive? Why in gods name did Searching for an application be considered easier then seeing an organized list. I seriously blame apple for this stupid bullshit. 

Mozilla seems the only company willing to embrace sensible change but not irrational trends.
 
I lasted a couple of hours, went to xfce for sanity sake
 
use KDE hides
Or at any rate better than that use IceWM + ROX, this is what powers 90% of my machines and it simply works -.-
 
Thank you for Linux(And the whole ethics applied on your work)!
 
oh yes, get kde again, you'll get customizability by default. the only tradeoff, system is also ugly by default, and perfectly able to break even without extensions ;).
 
Well, +Fuduntu still uses Gnome 2.32 with an up to date Xorg. If you'd still rather not make the jump.

It was based on Fedora 14 but we've forked ourselves out of their grasp last year.

Oh and we pack the infinality patches for font smoothing. And there's a script that runs once that checks how big your screen is and sets the size accordingly.
 
I spent two months to become accustomed to Ubuntu 12.04 (Unity, both Gnomes)... unsuccessfully. Their usability is near zero and I returned to KDE (Kubuntu 12.04).

Being a user (at home) I do not want to go deeply into technical details: vendors, used libraries, approaches... I only need a good convenient UI (even if it is slower sometimes).
 
try kde, mate, cinnamon, fluxbox
hey, leave him alone.
Why not tty? :)
 
i'm using xfce4 DE, after having disabled (uninstalled) xfdesktop and enabled "nautilus [dash] n" at session start-up to serve desktop icons in a gnome 2 fashion (after having configured fall-back mode on gnome 3 and some other trick thru gnome-tweak-tool, such as: let nautilus manage desktop icons)...it's closer to gnome 2 than to xfce4 now and i feel better :-)
 
I have Gnome 3.4(Ubuntu though)and i have upgrade kernel using 3.3.7 Optimus,made by talented Salih Emin!My laptop is flying now!-Optimus Kernel: Optimus Kernel 3.3.7 released »
 
Linus, I am so sorry.  I had to do the same thing, moving from Mint with Gnome2 to Scientific Linux for the out of the box capabilities I needed.  There are still basic things I can't do after 2 weeks.  I regret the karma I racked up by chucking about people's XP to Vista migrations.  The part that blows my mind is that we (the linux community) allowed this to happen to ourselves.
 
I love that you don't pull any punches. Way to just lay it out there. However, I like the black. ;)
 
Maybe next time ,Gnome tweak tool(and Ubuntu tweak tool)will come with the whole Gnome package
 
Change for the sake of change, Mr. Torvalds, nothing more.  There seems to be an awful lot of change going on lately that is ostensibly to "improve" this or that, but instead just leaves users with more broken than improved.
 
And to make your fave shell extension to work,try to download from other place.After you open the .json file and change the version into yours
 
+Linus Torvalds lol classic man "Who do I need to fuck to get standard font size and panel options....", I totally didn't expect that coming from you. But I think you made your point. Maybe someone will fix those for you.
 
Does anybody know how to make it hurt less when I stick my hand in the blender? I've tried both duller and sharper blades.

Am I doing something fundamentally wrong perhaps?

Use something else!
 
I don't know, I seem to be special. I just use KDE. When I install a new account, I just drop some folder widgets on the desktop for easy access to files and system monitoring, add some quick buttons to the panel, set firefox as default browser (if at all) and off I go with it. And it just works. And font sizes are a snap. just sayin'. Running kubuntu 12.04.
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Wow, to have to man with the keys to the kingdom not like your changes...
I'm still partial to the old gnome, though XFCE and LXDE are starting to look like good alternatives.
I'm poking the hornet's nest with this but, enlightenment maybe?
 
My approach to dealing with the problems I had with Gnome3 ended up becoming "Just get used to the defaults". Now I'm reasonably happy using it, but the transition period was somewhat painful.

I kind of think that this was what they were hoping most people would do, but I think it's more likely to turn people away than to draw them in. 
 
Arch Linux + gnome 3 - The best linux distro ever
 
Use Xfce or Lxde desktop environment (if it is possible with Fedora... if not choose another distro..)...you will save yourself whole bunch of time
 
Been suffering Mint 12 with Gnome 3.2 for a month or so.  I might try Mint 13 with Cinnamon next.  If it's as painful as now, I may be on XFCE or LXDE :(  KDE is already dead to me, Gnome may follow soon.
 
I'll say it again... call ALL interested programmers from the different distros and make an UNIQUE Linux system. For 2 years or so dedicate ONLY to that single OS and make it the operative system... timing seems about right... with W8 + Android + all... just saying.
 
Fallen Angel, there is no "the" operating system. The whole point of Linux is to have a variety of options, and you get to choose the one that is the best for you. If a tool doesn't suit your job, you find a new tool. If there were only one unique Linux system, people couldn't choose between distributions that specialize in different areas. For example, Fedora prides itself in only having open source software while Ubuntu is famous for its ease of use. Ubuntu makes it very easy to install proprietary software like MP3 codecs and Adobe Flash, whereas none of that comes pre-installed in other versions of Linux. Android itself is actually based on the Linux kernel too, and do you really want to be running a mobile phone operating system on your desktop?
Axel H
 
+Linus Torvalds mint might be an alternative distribution. They forked gnome to make it more gnome 2 like. My workmate is using cinnamon on ubuntu also close to gnome 2. I like the new approach about how to use the desktop, especially ubuntu's unity. But hell why they're pushing people into it instead of making it an option. Even worse they remove options every body uses, like changing fonts ... awful.
 
I abandoned Gnome at v. 2.6. I was writing distro reviews for Sourceforge at the time. LOL I still chuckle at the flame war I started when one of my reviews referred to "the abomination known as Gnome 2.6!"

I switched to KDE then and have never looked back. 
 
Switch from gnome-shell to cinnamon, the rest is still gnome, the shell is a little friendlier.
 
Hi Linus! Please give me a favor, just try Debian. Strongest upgrading OS, really.
 
What I wouldn't give for a group to pick up Gnome 2 and implement fixes and process optimizations for it.  What used to take me 5 minutes on Gnome 2 when it comes to desktop setup, took me in excess of 3 hours to get somewhat half-assed on Gnome 3.  It's enough to make me go from Ubuntu 12.04 to 10.10.  Absolutely aggravating experience... for no good reason.  What did Gnome 3 fix?  It seems to have only caused problems.
 
Perhaps installing Cinnamon might lower your blood pressure a little.
 
I love gnome3 I am more productive since I use it, in gnome2 the panel always was a mess, some icons did'nt appear. It is less easy to customize but also more stable.
 
I think Pantheon is the best Linux desktop out there... all the other's have big ui problems
 
I actually left Fedora because of GNOME3, and moved to ubuntu only to get irritated with Unity. I found the only place that actually was going anything sensible with the front-end and treating a £600 pound laptop like it was actually worth the money, and not like some cheap extension of the web, was Linux Mint. This move to running a single application on the screen at the same time, and to automatically re-sizing my windows is frankly annoying. I'm not running a tablet, I'm not running a touch screen, I want to have my 25 windows open, and I want to be able to see bits of them as they update.

Cinnamon, and the less graphically intensive MATE are definately the way forward, IMO.
 
Christ Linus, just run KDE and put yourself out of all that misery. No, you don't have to have any of those activities thingies - I have a totally clean desktop. And no, you don't have to have the Akonadi etc. crap thrashing your system, just turn it of. I'm tellin ya, I have a lean mean KDE4 machine, booting into a modern, crisp, configurable up the wazoo desktop, using 110 MB of RAM when fully started! Just do it.
 
Gnome 3 is the #1 reason I use Xfce. The UI should not keep me from doing my job
 
+Linus Torvalds Maybe you'd like to give i3wm a spin. Yes, it's not a DE, but an incredible WM. I love it to bits. I'll never use a floating WM/DE in my life again.
 
I started very sceptical, but now I really like gnome-shell. I find it very well for working. 

+Linus Torvalds Font size and style for the panel is within the themes. Usually very far to the top of the theme-file:

sudo gedit /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/gnome-shell.css
stage {
    font-family: cantarell, sans-serif;
    font-size: 11pt;
    color: white;
}

And may I suggest binding the terminal command to something like ctrl+shift+c? No more click to start as many as needed. Gnome-Shell only shines when combining keyboard and mouse input, in my opinion. 
 
That matches my experiences with FC17 and Gnome3 on my laptop as well -- this weekend I am going to try installing Cinnamon.
 
I lived through many distros, but my arch+mate devkit will probably outlive all others.
 
Fully agree with Linus, GNOME’s philosophy of not providing high functionality is stupid and makes GNOME suck more and more with each version.

It became really unusable and the need for extensions to get even the most basic things done that worked in older GNOME versions shows that GNOME is severely diseased.

Apparently they want to become a fancy/coloured Apple clone: no functionality & made for idiots.


Well as Linus said earlier, if you design software for idiots, you’re users will be idiots.
 
I think your concerns would get more traction if you had more credibility in the Linux community.

I just installed Mint with Cinnamon 1.4. System font size is easily accessible. (Preferences->Cinnamon Settings).
 
Install Cinnamon or MATE, both good alternatives
 
Linux Mint 13 Maya, combines gnome 3 with Mate or Cinnamon, is very usable, it looks like gnome2 and is very configurable; they have made a good work with it, I already use LMDE, and I'm so happy ... -_-
 
And now you know why Linux on the desktop is still a distant dream...
 
I have just started using awesome. Enjoying a different perspective. Working great so far.
 
Long ago an article written by someone called +Linus Torvalds made me switch from gnome to kde.
Then I switched from Fedora to KUbuntu in a time when upgrade process of Ubuntu was way better than Fedora's one.
I'm still happy with it on my desktop, laptop and media center.
 
+Dean Wallace Because a heart surgeon doesn't have time to be bothered with a face lift ;-)
 
+Tim Baker True.  I still don't know why #1, he's using fedora and #2, went back to g3 after using xfce.  Leave xfce for What?
 
I don't get why so many people are against ubuntu's unity, and they try anything as long as it isn't from Ubuntu. The side dock, especially if reduced to 32px, is just great and useful, the global menu is great... it's definitely coming along nicely! I don't see how Gnome3 or Mate or KDE can be superior to Unity... they can be good alternatives, especially gnome as it's got more eye candy... but if you want to be productive, Unity's the way, for me at least.
 
Gnome3 looks great, but it broke the workflow I had since I think way back around 1996. Which is, some Redhat distribution where terminals are distributed around a number of virtual workspaces where you can easily navigate around with a small number of hotkeys.

I find Gnome3 a bit puzzling too, since I now lost my usual 2x3 virtual workspace setup (multiple vi's and debugging windows). The odd thing is that that setup never has changed from the point I had a machine with a whopping 64MB of memory, to the 8GB machine I have now.

Moreover, for some reason the widgets of the desktop manager now are different from the widgets of the applications. (This is actually a compliment to the widgets of Gnome3, I wished all my applications copied the look from that.)

Gnome3 is great for your average Joe, but it threw a lot away for me, an on-and-off old-skool coder. I was thinking of going back to screen.

marco@horse[00:12:28]runtime⇒ screen
bash: screen: command not found...

The horror.
 
I agree with you 100%. Couple of things they could have done

Online FAQ
Feature Poll
Suggestion box

Above all, KEEP EVERYTHING SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!
 
I am a fan of GTK and I liked Gnome2 very much. But the developers are making crap of it more and more. Especially Gnome is becoming unportable, which decreases the quality of software generally. Most distributions are fighting to get Gnome 2.32 working and don't consider it stable.

I migrated my desktop to #OpenBox . It was first very annoying to find applications that fit into this concept, but after proper configuration and finding out how to use automounter properly, I got it working well and use it since 2 years now. Nice is, I can configure my desktop and keep it in my private git repo. My desktop is large, comfy, uses GTK everywhere and starts within a second on my flagship (E2200-based 64 bit PC). After seeing how #OpenBox works, I learned how a desktop on X11/Xorg is supposed to work according to standards and without all the broken GDM session crap etc (using slim for graphical login).

I recommend to move to one of the *Box WM. It does not need to be #OpenBox . And especially avoid all the Lennartware which is largely annoying, because it does not work anywhere except on Fedora (and I won't use Fedora, because it's full of broken Lennartware).
 
Knowledge and GNOME 3 is an oxymoron. 
 
I don't like to spend much time tweaking my UI. So I settled with xfce and xubuntu. Linus, you should sponsor a distro as I think the total Linux desktop experience is going down the drain with these "step forward step backward" features.
 
I still can't get my wireless to work with ubuntu 12.04.  It seems to break with every other update.
 
Editing Conf files to change the font size? Install tweak-ui apps to accomplish basic simple tasks? The sheer arrogance of the gnome3 developers is breathtaking.
 
Fedora never work well on my old desktop. gnome3 is alpha state, kde use to much recources, i prefer arch-linux with xfce4. its fast & stable... 
or! compose your very own distibution. you have enough knowledge to do so. will be interesting...
 
Honestly i don't see the point of this 225 comments... Just use whatever you like or get involved and contribute to GNOME 3. After all FOSS is about choice isn't it ? :) 
 
+Horst Helmer since you mentioned it, how can I stop the ' id x respawning too fast' errors in arch/xfce?
 
Gnome 3 can die in a fire, when KDE went to 4.0 I went to XFCE and haven't looked back since.  And yes, I've used Gnome to test Fedora releases, and hate every second of it every time.  Hope you figure out some sane environment, Linus, nothing is worse than fighting with your desktop instead of doing Real Work or Real Play.
 
gnome3?  what's next Linus.. Bing as your search engine!
 
Dear Linus, you can always use MATE or even Cinnamon DE. You can reproduce the two-panel setup of the good old Gnome 2 with really few tweaks. There's no need to bash
 
lol, using a linux based OS, not even once. I tried ubuntu out and, yeah I had a similar experience, except the updates broke flash and now the PC won't even boot. I suppose the hardware died or something, but I have such a sour taste in my mouth that I haven't tried to fix it for about 6 months.

Pic related, it is our situation.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hJ9ALsk5z5Q/T8lGiowl3JI/AAAAAAAAQHk/bLpduWY-Rxs/s0-d/untitled.jpg

I'll be giving linux mint a try in due time. Hopefully it just works.
 
+Linus Torvalds If I remember correctly, the Chrome parameters you're after are enabled via chrome://flags.

Also, while I do agree that Gnome has lost a lot of features, it does look a bit more pretty (or is it more Mac-ish).
 
Give Unity a chance.. oh wait, can't change font size there either. This will surely be the year of the Linux desktop :/
 
Really funny ;-)
Although I know Gnome 3 has still a lot of problems (and your post has really hit the mark), I like it very much.
 
I'm probably in the minority, because I like GNOME3. I don't need much customization anymore, though. Kde is nice and I like it as well, but to an extent it's never ending menus turn me off. So, there's the impass. Too much or too little.

Linus, I'd recommend looking at the arch wiki. You may not use arch, but it should at least point you in a good direction of where the hard code is. Or, you could check the GNOME-shell group on deviant art and find a theme (usable through the tweak tool) that has a smaller panel and fonts.

Just a couple of ideas. In my hardcore customize days I preferred open box, but that's just me.
 
Oh, and I use chromium, but for the extensions I use gnomes web browser.
 
There is a reason ...
Well, OK, no.  There are a whole metric assload of reasons why I don't use Gnome.  This kind of crap is one of them.  Another is the "You MUST use every available bleeding-edge unstable library and — HEY, LOOK A COMET!" code discipline it appears to display.  (Hey, who else remembers the period when you couldn't build Gnome from source without a complete working Gnome already installed, because there were vertical dependency loops in the source tree?)  But the major one is that for a long time, it's seemed that the goal of Gnome has been to compete with the Windows desktop on its own turf.  And even if I wanted to run a Windows-alike desktop (which I don't; if I did, I'd run Windows in the first place), that is a strategy doomed to failure, because it will always be in catch-up mode and it will always be an imperfect copy of the UI.
 
LXDE is a nice alternative, and once I configured my touchpad (one cool thing about gnome2/3 is the graphical enabling of tap-to-click et al) it was just what I needed.
 
One opinion. There are many out there. And I moved from openbox to gnome3. With few extensions (the most important is disable window animations) I think its the best desktop ever. I personally like its workflow very much. Of course it has pains, like any other v1.4... :-)
 
I used to love GNOME... Then GNOME 3 happened. I never much liked KDE4 but I guess it's my best option right now for when I get my new Linux install up and running. Either that or e17. Anybody have any other suggestions (or can anybody tell me if XFCE is anything like it was a few years ago)
 
Linus, we just love your style ;). I agree that the way to configure Gnome 3 is kind of unusual sometimes, but for the most part I didn't have to change anything. Quite happy with the defaults so far.
 
Any Linus Torvalds rant is always epic. And usually valid, as well. Linux is going through an identity crisis as well, with no clear successor to gnome 2, just imperfect solutions like gnome 3 or unity. But projects like mate and cinnamon give me hope.
 
+Dean Wallace your problem depends on /etc/inittab. with slim i had this error, an never found a solution, so i use gdm to login. and it works for me.
 
Gnome 3 is for tablet, touchscreen not for computer with keyboard, Gnome lost the way
 
After a good amount of years spent fixing stuff with kde and gnome, I landed in the fluxbox planet. The ugly emptiness of the interface, the totally lack of gui configuration tools, makes me feel soooo good. If there's nothing, nothing can crash. And at the moment, it is fine for me...
 
I hate when they think that they know what's best for me...
I like Gnome2 and I want to keep using it... so that's why the first thing I did on Ubuntu 12.04 was to install Mate Desktop.
As I couldn't stand up to that Unicrapy + Gnome3. 
 
Fluxbox is bloated. Ion is where it's at (nevermind that Ion hasn't been supported for several years now ;-)
 
I asked Kirby to describe something that was 10 years ago and he said an fucking apple, or somthing, but it seems so relevant, i was happy with a fucking
pear
 
Mint has no inplace upgrade forcing those that want to go with the next release to wipe out what they had and start again.  At least Ubuntu has an inplace upgrade and you can install something other than Unity, such as KDE or GNOME 3/Mate.  Yeah, you can create a separate partition for your personal stuff, but I put a lot of work into getting my system running like I want it, SO THE INPLACE UPGRADE MATTERS TO ME, BECAUSE I USE MY COMPUTER.
 
I guess Gnome Developers are doing a great job in pissing you off. I hope they continue doing that until you make a one-to-rule-them-all Linux distribution created by the father of Linux!!
 
After using Gnome 3 from day one on my Arch Linux machine, I dumped it in favor of XFCE last week. XFCE isn't as good as Gnome 2, but it's way better than Gnome 3. I highly recommend it for people who are disappointed with Gnome 3. 
 
Your mistake switching to gnome, now you just have to admit it.
 
I've been using +SolusOS  all week, and am liking the ease of use and stability of it. Nothing has broken yet, and I've been trying almost as hard as I can. I've also been playing with +Bodhi Linux. I love their approach of "Here's a terminal, a text editor, and a file manager. You do the rest as you see fit."
 
Here are my opinions on the major DEs:

Both Gnome 3 and Unity can't be customized enough to be worth anything, and if you do using gnome-tweak-tool or something similar, you end up screwing something up.

Xfce and LXDE may be fast, but they seem really old and can't do as much as I want them to. Xfce may be more customizable than LXDE, but it really made my dad mad when he found out that there is no easy way to edit the menus like in KDE.

KDE can be customized the most. I can set it up however I want and all I have to do is install a widget or two. And the latest version is fast too, without being archaic in the ways it does things like Xfce.

Thus KDE rules. 
 
I wish KDE were more stable, cause it has so much potential. I reccomend looking up the Cinnamon GUI. Works on Mint, Sabayon and Arch, maybe a few others. 
 
Ubuntu + gnome3, running AMD A6 APU, 6gb ram. Not an issue at all :-)
 
Have you tried using WM like AwesomeWM, dwm or Openbox instead od DE. Yes it can take a bit to configure it first time but they work faster and are fully configurable. !?
 
Yes I switched to xfce. Not as nice but it works. Recently I was working on an old laptop old mine and I was shocked how awesome and easy to use the ui was. I was like what is this? Gnome 2.6....
 
Linux founding father having troubled by one of their descendant
 
My Major complaint .. how the heck do you open up a terminal via keyboard shortcut... my version of fedora 17 doesn't have this option. 
 
+1 for everyone using the "Switch to LXDE/XFCE/Awesome/etc" solution.  I use e17 these days - prettier than KDE and far more useful for me.
 
Personally I've come to like gnome-shell. I agree that having to install gnome-tweak-tool is kind of silly, but once I change the ratio to 0.8 (keeping the same font sizes) it doesn't seem so bad. Being that I like to keep my hands on the keyboard I find it convenient to hit the meta key and type to launch a terminal etc. I don't really see what the fuss is all about.
 
I was looking forward to 17 now I worry it will make me sad.
 
By the way, you don't need --enable-webgl on Chrome any more (it should be enabled by default, modulo GPU blacklist).
 
If I understand correctly, GNOME3 uses CSS for styling via GTK3 or Clutter. It would be interesting to see being able to import some sort of configuration style sheet in the GNOME3 themes. Such defaults as color / font may be preset in the configuration file and marked as !important in the CSS. That way when both the theme and the configuration stylesheet run in tandem, the user-selected presets take precedence. Then all you would need is a config applet, i.e. Settings/Display, to setup the configuration CSS file, which should be super-easy to both parse and generate. Just a thought. :)
 
But I agree with you guys though. Why can't Linus just make one himself?
 
Oi Oi +Linus Torvalds You need Gentoo Linus! Gentoo is still currently using 3.2.1 as stable. When 3.4.1 eventually becomes stable, most of the bugs will have been resolved (obviously) Trust me. I am not experiencing the problems you seem to be encountering. Gnome is very "happy" on the Gentoo OS just now, and man, is it powerful. Peace. We really appreciate what you are doing for the Linux community.
 
Oh yeah, if the team that made Gnome 3 tried to make it more user friendly, they failed. I find it too complicated.
 
The most annoying feature for me is about the workspace stack, specially the fact that the opened windows move along to other workspace for itself as you close windows in another workspace. Then... nowadays I'm a happy XFCE user.

And for the olders... WindowMaker came back ;-). I feel like installing it again, just for fun.
 
I use fluxbox at home w/ubuntu 12.04 and at work w/centos 4/5/6 . Everything is more or less consistent and has been since 2005 or so when I started using it.
 
Desktop use for me is dual framebuffers under gtk3, unity, cinnamon, or any "next-gen" desktop where they are highly broken, as are most applications that fail to include there might actually be more than just DISPLAY=:0.0.  Let alone 2 framebuffers at 5760x1200 each (2x3 24" on ati 5800), but I find a hack-y medium with mine to use it - and it's awesome when compiz or ati drivers don't crash (but do, more often than not).  

I just want gtk2 back where I was most stable and usable with big multi-monitor.  Best feature of either gtk3 or unity has been turning off hack or otherwise as much of them off as possible.
 
+Linus Torvalds I wish I could help beyond telling you what you already know.  Gnome is a bloated beast of code that grows ever more so every release.  I gave up trying to customise it.  Unity on Ubuntu 12 isn't perfect but I think going forward it will be "the" Desktop.  I just checked and didn't find a way to change the font sizes in Unity either.
 
Oh man; tons of complaining and zero solutions... sorry, buy you sound like old grumpy geezers... here are some solutions, +Linus Torvalds 

- You should try using the system (windows logo) key more; then, type what you want. Currently, gnome looks for your files and apps. Honestly, <system>+gedit seems much faster than any click you can do. Eventually, gnome-shell learns what you like.

- you can tweak what apps do when launches by editing /usr/share/applications/* . You can do some pretty cool stuff there

- There are good gnome3 themes; which you can edit: /usr/share/themes . Most of the stuff uses css stylesheets... plain simple

- gsettings is your friend. Try gsettings set <tab><tab> (you need autocompletion for this. Tons of stuff to configure there. If you want click-click-click, just go for the gnome-tweak-tool. After install, try <system>+advanced. The tool is labeld "Advanced Settings"

Lastly, check out the Gnome3 cheatsheet: https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet
 
Cinnamon is a really nice Desktop Environment that fixes a lot if problems with gnome 3. However, it does have it's own problems (I might argue that they're a little less troublesome though)
 
I was literally forced off gnome 3 due to its instability. I was dumping my config every few days just to make it start up. Even ignoring the numerous usability issues, the quality alone makes it unusable. 
 
+Robert Partridge we do have font settings in the ui under many fully polished desktop environments - gnome itself used to have it also but version 3 is a failure
 
If you are willing to change distro I'd reccommend Sabayon XFCE it runs pretty well and does anything you tell it to do. It is also pretty up to date in kernel and has a nice kernel switching tool. It also allows you to use gentoo package manager for completely up to date packages
 
Not to want to sound trite because I feel your pain as I have been through that whole "WTF?! Where did my right click to edit go" with Gnome3. I swore when I installed an OS on my new laptop i would opt for something that did not take me hours and hours to get to the way I like it. I opted for Mint LMDE in the end and selected (or rather opted) to try cinnamon and Mate. I thought I would end up using Mate as that is a direct fork of Gnome 2.x but surprisingly enough Cinnamon needed the minimum of tweaking to get it back to my multiple horizontal desktops with a task bar at the bottome and nice simple gui effects that too the minimal of resources. I can honestly say I am surprised even myself. The various gnome-applets that I used to use for system monitoring are pretty much replaced by gkrellm and dbus-notifications. it has been over 2 months now and I am still quite happy with 1 less desktop (5 instead of 6) and traditional alternative to Gnome3. There is only one Hot corner to worry about as well :) Nice.. looks like Compiz :)
 
@+Jim Blaich Perhaps that is so in the Ubuntu versions but I know from experience I can do a apt-get dist-upgrade in Debian ( and thus in the LMDE) just by setting my preferences for which flavour i want. Stable, testing or unstable. To my mind that is the best way of upgrading if you are not experienced. Otherwise I tend to upgrade manually only the packages that I feel need to be updated. With practice you can do so without breaking anything. Just gotta love apt.
 
I was a GNOME user since RH 7.1, but when Ubuntu switched to Unity I struggled along, especially since I had to use Unity 2-D with my hardware.  The upgrade to Ubuntu 12.04 was a disaster for me, with weird screen defects that I couldn't explain or eliminate.  I have ended up on Kubuntu and I am liking KDE quite a bit.  I can tweak font sizes, I once again have a panel I can put launchers on and everything works.  Now if someone would just find me a photo organizer that could read/write IPTC tags and handle huge photo collections, I'd be very happy.
 
+The NakedTruth "apt-get dist-upgrade" does not perform the function of upgrading the distribution from say Mint 12 to 13.  It only updates those programs already installed to be in line with the version of the distribution that you have currently installed.

Again, I use my computer.  I do not piddle with software.  I can't afford to use a distro that forces me to do considerable extra work that should be done by an in-place upgrade--like the one offered via Ubuntu.
 
Welcome to gnu man.... rather than making things work we would rather argue about proposed standards... to the detriment of the user experience. Sad i know.
 
Xmonad + Arch, don't look back.
 
that unfortunately part of the reason why i went back to windows, i'm disgusted at the linux desktops, no more good old gnome 2 interface, its hard to use gnome 3, kde never really liked it, ubuntu, i cannot stand the thing anymore so i'm wondering why can't i go back to linux.... because the desktop environnement was great, now it sucks.... sorry gnome but you don,t get it and ubuntu either.....
 
After getting really pissed off years ago reading a thread where a Gnome developer defended the decision to not allow different wallpapers on different workspaces, I decided that I had to either accept the Gnome guys' quirkiness or simply not use it. Since I still prefer Gnome to any other Desktop, commercial or open, I just learn to live with the wonky stuff and hope they come around some day. Gnome 3 made me question their sanity again, but after trying the alternatives, Gnome still comes out on top, so I've gone back to my zen state about it, (since I'm not a C developer and can't do it myself, nor did I actually pay anyone for the software). Thus is the fate of the open source supporter. Still beats the hell out of using Windows. :-)
 
Sadly I think gnome 3 and gnome shell are pretty sweet, but there are some default settings that are so outlandishly stupid (can't shut your machine down without a super secret keyboard combo??) and the extensions break so often that I'm pretty much done with it. But all the alternatives are either too ugly or too full of k's...
 
If you really want to use a full desktop experience that you can tweak all you want, just use KDE. KDE has some annoying aspects but not even half as bad as Gnome 3, I played around with the extensions and themes for over 3 hours and still couldn't find something that I liked. Nowadays I just use a heavily tweaked XFCE on Arch with all the wonderful Compiz effects that the Gnome team thought we didn't want or need. As hard as it is, give up on Gnome for a while, if you want to try something more tolerable, try out Cinnamon. It's still a bit of a mess but at least it's a lot more usable. Since you are obviously comfortable with dealing with scripts, just go for Awesome or XMonad, yes it takes some getting used to but at least you can actually get some work done without your desktop fighting against you.
 
Moved to KDE after years of gnome and not looking back. The icing is that Kubuntu 12.04 will be supported for another
5 years!
 
I jumped over to LXDE. i love GNOME3, and it's a great idea... just having my system load always above 2 is a bit crap.
 
I'm glad I heard this from you, Linus. I've been using Windows 7 exclusively for the past few months (for work reasons) and I've been trying to decide on a new primary distro to go with. I was going to go with Ubuntu 12.04 when it came out. Then it came out and I played with it in a VM and IMO, Unity still sucks. Then I tried out Mint 13 on a spare computer. I tried both the MATE and Cinnamon desktops and they both need some extra work for stability, but Cinnamon looks very promising. I feel at a bit of a loss here as to which desktop environment to go with (I'm pretty sure I'll go with Mint as the OS, though). I want a minimalistic desktop that doesn't require any configuration to function but something that I can tweak the hell out of, and has attractive styling. With those parameters, I'm thinking XFCE might be the way to go with Compiz and Emerald. To put it simply, I want a desktop that looks great and screams "UNIX", "Linux" or "NOT Windows" when someone looks at it. Any suggestions on this?
 
desafortunadamente no me gusta fedora... prefiero seguir aguardando a debian.
he probado gnome3 en slackware de slackbuild y sorpresivamente tiene vias de estar muy bueno!....
Translate
 
unfortunately I do not like fedora ... I prefer to continue waiting for debian.
I tried to SlackBuild gnome3 in slackware and have ways to be surprisingly good! ....
 
+Linus Torvalds have you thought about giving KDE another try. The recent releases of KDE have actually been been very good and every release is feeling more and more mature. I would say if you haven't given it a shot since your last epic rant on KDE where you switched to Gnome, I would say give it another chance. Worst comes to worst, you don't like it and move on, so a couple hours "wasted?"

I personally recommend Kubuntu since it has the most up-to-date release and is fairly well maintained being a major distro. OpenSUSE is going to release in a couple months, and Fedora does have a KDE spin. Or you could always wait for good ole Debian if you like rock solid stability.
 
Gosh, seems to me like the Ubuntu developers actually got things right with Unity, although I didn't think it with the first release that used it as default.
 
Oh yeah, a note to all those who rant against Unity: cut it some slack, it has only been around for a couple of years and it has come a long way in a short time. The first release, yeah, it kinda sucked. But the developers have learned a great deal since then.
 
lol, you tell 'em!  i've been sticking with XFCE since gnome 3/unity happened.  i cannot stand these new desktop paradigms, i guess i'm just old fashioned.
 
Gnome 3 Fallback mode, or xfce. The vanilla G3 is....
 
Fallback is good, but now im used to gnome 3, is more clean than all the other desktop environments (I use to add a taskbar wich never use cos I'm abusing the "evil logo" key a bit)

ps: theres a new old school DE called 'mate' too http://mate-desktop.org/
 
Amen brother. I ended up with XFCE for many of the same reasons ....and I have no intent of going back. 
 
I just bit the bullet and switched to #KDE.  I couldn't be happier.  I think the best solution to your problem is to just do likewise (and if not KDE, then XFCE, Afterstep, Mate, or whatever floats your boat).
 
I fail to understand why everyone's so desperate to have a full-blown fancy-pantsy DE, and who can be held responsible for the one-desktop-fits-all && we-decide-what's-good-for-you. You're all a bunch of Mactards.
 
So yourself a favor and try out xfce. It's got pretty decent support for gnome looks and acts much like gnome 2
 
+1 xfce... you can get it to be nearly exactly like the gnome2x.. kinda. or you can do something else. either way, its very useful
 
use xfce ore lxde if you wann to have a desktop or kde if you have resources. and of god sake don`t use fedora.
 
Use something actually light like Fluxbox, FVWM2, Awesome, ... But of course they require a little work to get something sexy and for automounting, ...
 
Sorry, Linus.  I haven't updated my extension for 3.4; .  I'll get it going for you this weekend.  It's a simple change... I'll also add a better icon as well.

I'll add my thoughts to the rest of your post later. :-)
 
+Velimir Baxa While I'm using Ubuntu myself, and have been for the last 5 years (after switching from Fedora 6) I fail to see the point of telling people (especially people as knowledgeable as the guy who started Linux) what distro to use and especially not to use. Part of Free Software is also the freedom of choice. Choose whatever you like best, and if other people don't agree with you, deal with it.
 
Hey Linus, there is a real problem with Guis in linux distros. Lots bugs and crashes and elegant. Almost all distros has the problems. Kernel superb and very good responsive. People hate Linux because of the Gui
 
i hate gnome3, so i am still using fedora 11 which upgraded from fedora 9 one year ago :)
 
Also, did you give mate a try? You absolutely never miss gnome2 again.
 
OpenBox / LXDE / XFCE (particularly the new XFCE v4.10) FTW!. Also for the record - my distro of choice (for geeks) would be Arch Linux. For the average joe, I would recommend Linux Mint (both Cinnamon and MATE DEs are awesome).
 
I went back to gnome "classic"! Classic... hah... I wish it was...
 
I have some experience, yes... Don't ask to ask, just ask...
 
Good grief.. Linus asks for some help in GNOME, and there 300+ comments talking about which desktop to switch to.  It's like you're all looking for that marketing angle that Linus is using your favorite desktop so you can brag about it to all your cool friends.

Now that I finished my trolling, I think one person did answer your question regarding the fonts.  I didn't give a proper explanation regarding why you couldn't use my extension - the extension I wrote was for 3.2, there is a json file that says what version it is... that's why it is greyed out.  I'll create a new extension, and just change the json file to point to the new one.  I've been waiting for F17 to come out before upgrading my machine to GNOME 3.4.. that's why there is no upgraded extension for 3.4.. 

Extensions are code reviewed before being added to the extensions website.  The process for adding extensions have become more rigorous since it is in fact easy to make things unstable with the right collection of extensions.  +Jasper St. Pierre does an excellent job in doing this.  While very powerful, extensions can make things unstable if there is one extensions that are doing things stupidly.  It's a work in progress.
 
гм а почему не xfce?
debian + xfce замечательная связка.
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Linus, you are right. I like people that say just true. As for me I use ubuntu 11.04 with openbox and I can advice to use KDE, seems that it pretty cool now.
 
Hey Linus. I wrote the gnome-shell-extensions website. I've heard multiple reports about extensions.gnome.org breaking for certain browsers, and I'm currently in the middle of a debugging session with a few people trying to track it down. It seems to happen with WebKit browsers on some machines, and I don't know any more details.

I'm also working on system integration and native updating for 3.6, so extension and system updates updates are integrated and things will Just Work. I'm also building a tool to translate the extensions from the online gnome-shell-extensions into RPMs, for easier deployment for system administrators.

As for Menu Editing, that was an issue in communication. The alacarte maintainer disappeared, leaving the tool broken, which is why I picked up maintenance a few weeks ago Today I pushed a new set of updates for Alacarte to F17, so that should give you your menu editing back.

As for fonts? I have no idea why we don't expose that by default. I'll certainly bring it up internally and see if we can get some weight behind implementing something in the GNOME System Settings tool.

If you have problems with anything at all GNOME-Shell-Extension-related (or Alacarte related, I guess, now), please feel free to contact me.

Believe me, I know that the current situation isn't perfect, which is why I'm trying to make it better every day. It's a question of limited resources at some level, though.
 
why don't you just use the gnome fallback session? It's a lot more like home
 
Just use awesome. If you really want gnome look at what the MINT people came up with to make it usable.
 
I like "Lock Screen".... it very secure when you want to go out quickly  from your "secure box" ^_^ ^_^..... same.... where is it hahah ^_^
 
The very same reason I went to Mint with MATE after F14. Gnome3 is utter failure, Cinnamon is going good but still needs polish.
 
LinuxMint seems to have come up with the best gnome3 interface I've seen, at least. They provide a lock screen button in the taskbar menu,  and within the "Cinnamon Settings" preference panel there's a "Fonts" setting where you can change fonts, sizing, and scaling.
 
GNOME 3 is much better if you force fallback mode enabled (basically makes it just like GNOME 2, mostly).  On System Settings, on the Details control panel... thing... and the Graphics section, you can set forced fall back on.

Remember to hold down the Alt key to right click and customize the panels in the mode.  It's a little annoying and makes no sense why it's done that way, but you probably aren't going to be customizing the panels enough to make it a major hinderance.

in fallback mode, it still suffers from the lack of customizability (without gnome tweak tool, g/dconf-editor, etc), but it's still close to the best desktop ever (that was GNOME 2); closer than anything else is anyhow.
Rami MM
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lol, you rock Linus, I couldn't stop laughing, you did exactly express my thoughts :-D
 
What got me annoyed was that i had to install a separate application so my sister could manage her desktop icons... i mean... WTF!?
 
+Linus Torvalds I think that you would be much better off with Xfce desktop it is friendly and usable. You add plugins for what you want on it and it have by default everything you need from plugins, from different monitors cpu, network, temperature, to easy creating of shortcuts on it.
I dont use gnome for years because its too fat desktop environment.
Xfce is the best minimalistic environment.
Ed Dich
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I so often miss KDE3 these days... Somehow many developers find it much more cool to start a new project rather then fixing the bugs in already 99% working ones...
 
F16 user here. Abandoned gnome3 -- Xfce saved my marriage.

For the simps riffing with "Have you tried a Mac?" One-size-fits-all nanny interfaces need not apply.
 
You are ranting about a Linux desktop environment? You should support and embrace it instead!
 
Maybe this is threadjacking, and if so feel free to pour a pot of scalding hot coffee down my pants, but I'd love to see a simple slider someplace easily accessible, where the user can adjust his/her experience level. Move it from "newb" to "kinda proficient" and you get font settings. Go from "RHCE" to "kernel hacker" and you can directly edit your X server and recompile on the fly. Perhaps lame examples, but the idea is sound, I think.
 
gnome3 is better...but still lot to do...
 
Linus, you sure did get me laughing throughout the post, not just the ending. Unfortunately, there's no easy way out of this one. If you wanna solve, the issue permanently, it seems to me another DE is the only option: Mate, Cinnamon, Xfce, LXDE, Fluxbox, even KDE... Anything that will work for you.
(Personal experience: record-breakingly running from Ubuntu to KDE and later Mint when Unity came out and when I saw that Gnome 3 is almost the same as...)
 
+Jasper St. Pierre thanks man, you rock :-)  (Linus in general, feel free to ping one of us if you have an issue.. we are responsive :-)
 
Gnome 3 gave me the push I needed to abandon DEs altogether and use tiling WMs. Been using xmonad (good) and qtile (bad). I'm now using i3, which is not as good as xmonad, but it has few dependencies and can run on anything.
 
+Linus Torvalds  I maintain tweak-tool. Can I help here? What font settings are you looking to change, just the size?
 
Complaining about low usability and random breaks when updated... If I wouldn't know better, it seems like someone is discovering the linux environment.
 
switched to blackbox and cairo because of this silliness. never looked back.
 
A you can use KDE or you can use ald good Gnome 2 like Mate. Even though I use ubuntu I swiched to fallback session and in my netbook i use ubuntu with fluxbox.
+Linux TorvaldsBtw I know some C and I want to contribute to kernel where should I begin. it  is lots of lines of code......
 
+Linus Torvalds:
>So I go to extensions.gnome.org, and install the panel favorites extension that not only obviates the need for the stupid dual "first go to activities, then go to favorites", but also fixes it so that I can get multiple terminals without doing the whole "three times widdershins and left-click" dance. That gets things usable.
There is a better thing, that can replace "Panel Favorites" and Windows 7 superbar in one. This is "Deepin Enhacked Dock". But this thing is'nt updated for GNOME 3.4 on extensions.gnome.org. To get this, you need to download "Deepin Enhacked Linux" beta iso, unpack it, and go to /usr/share/gnome-shell/extensions to get it. There are also some additional interesting extensions. But "Linux Deepin" community really don't want to publish them before their distribution new release. You can save your time, by getting my archive with already "unpacked" extensions: http://ompldr.org/vZTIyNQ/deepin_extensions_3.4.tar.xz

>And I can get panel settings and enable auto-hide so that I don't need to look at that butt-ugly thing that has clearly been designed by some goth teenager that thinks that black is cool.
Why you don't use themes? Atolm(you can find it in F17 repo) and Ambiance Blue GTK theme are look good together.

>But where did the "Lock Screen" button go? I can still find +Sriram Ramkrishna's extension by searching for it, but it's grayed out - and apparently for a reason. It doesn't seem to work any more.
Give +Sriram Ramkrishna some bug report, that extension don't work with GS 3.4. I think he will be glad to see you writing bugreport. Or find some book about JS, find documentation about Gnome Shell 3.4 API, and fix it yourself. Is not that the whole idea of open source software?

>And how do I add --enable-webgl --ignore-gpu-blacklist to the google chrome favorites entry?
Edit .desktop file, don't be so lazy. But, this is really boring, i agree.

>I'm pretty sure I was able to edit the startup details for the favorites in some version of gnome3 with some random installed extensions (probably the frippery set), but it's impossible to find now.
If you remember name of this extension, you can find it. But i'm not sure that it is updated for work with GS 3.4.

>End result: extensions.gnome.org may be a really cool idea, but it seems to have some serious usability problems in practice. And the whole gnome3 approach of "by default we don't give you even the most basic tools to fix things, but you can hack around things with unofficial extensions" seems to be a total UX failure.
Try to explain this to GNOME Community, they still think that convert DE to "just big <s>web browser</s> JS parser" is good idea. They think if they give people the opportunity to write hacks for GNOME, then they can do nothing. "Let people write their own buttons on a panel (using JS), and we'll just break down API on each release and do nothing.". Because I did not notice any differences between GNOME 3.2 and GNOME 3.4. Is that Gnome Shell ceased to hang for a few minutes after I wake up my laptop from sleep.
Or, their brains hit "great idea" about the future of the desktop(Just like Microsoft with their "Metro"), where all users have to like "as is" and they will not have to do anything else. But this is more nonsense than the truth.

>Who do I need to fuck to get standard font size and panel options, instead of having to wade through this kind of "unsupported and random extensions that look ugly as hell and break randomly" crap? Maybe if I told people I was going blind, and claimed the font size was an "accessibility" feature, people would care? Never mind that I want to make the fonts smaller.
I think you need to aim your "fuck" into the GNOME Community. Why can not they make something like GNOME 2 from GNOME Fallback with the same good old panel, menu and settings? Now GNOME Fallback is more like something terrible, for those who are still forced to use proprietary drivers from the video. 

My opinion about this:
We need to find the one, who can (again) fork GNOME 2, and port it to GTK3(Вecause someday GTK2 lost in the past. Fedora Community will not support it, and build forever.). But who?
 
Did you try Linux Mint with Cinnamon? They also the MATE (Gnome 2 fork) edition.
 
+Patrizio Rullo that is exactly what I was thinking when I read this just now. Of course he could just switch to XFCE or LXDE or ... well you know.
 
+Victor Garcia -- that sounds like the kind of stereotype/narrative found in a Ziff-Davis publication. But pragmatists with years of empirical data know that Linux is bulletproof.

The "random break" in this case is an experimental DE that should have been called something else. But it wasn't, and it's the "new gnome"...which means, those of us who want the solid Linux experience are using other DE's.

So please go play with your one-size-fits-all DE, from whatever vendor you have the misfortune of using...or, alternately, try any Linux distro with Xfce as your DE, where you will gain the benefits of the bulletproof Linux "environment".

'Struth! :)
 
Linux Mint 13 with mate desktop is works well. I hate the direction of IT companies wants to tell me all I need is fancy powerpoint presentations on my desktop computer! I mean people love elegant design of course but they also want easy control and management on their computer. What usable in mobile environment doesn't means it is usable on desktop.
 
The man is trying to get some Intel 3D drivers on his preexisting Fedora install. His beef is that upgrading to F17 forces him to "upgrade" to gnome3. What really pisses me off and I bet it pisses him off too is when people out of nowhere start offering "ubuntu", "Linux Mint" even "Windows 7" as a solution. The man probably has a workflow that he uses so even another DE such as xfce or KDE will not work for him. Lets do something on this wealth of knowledge, any experts on Gnome 3 or do we have just a bunch of OS fanboys? 
 
There is a search field on the System Settings main window. Just type "font".

It is actually faster than asking on G+.
 
Well Linus no DE is sane at this point except maybe XFCE. Gnome2 is dead in the water. Gnome3 is pathetic. Did you figure out you had to use a voodoo doll for the power off button to show up? KDE4, the holy grail, is still plagued by bugs, some of them unthinkable, like forgetting to copy "some" files when copying large amounts of files, a bug that has been reported and ignored for years because it is not a priority. Well that killed kde4 for me. Then there is the Canonical Joke for Children, the Unity crap and the reinvention of (part of) Katapult. Finally there is XFCE. I wanted to stick to the Ubuntus. XFCE is somewhat ugly, minimalistic, but goddam it works and is fast. You don't get a back button or even a go up button on the fucking file manager, but count your blessings. (Edit: You do get the buttons, but not by default. Yay!)

I would go crazy if I were you Linus, surrounded by these pond scum.
 
Not totally related, but I kinda like Ubuntus Unity, even when it does have it's oddities and propably oddball as heck in "true nerds" mind... Tough I miss it's total lack of function with multiple X sessions... seems that can't win nowadays :D
 
The solution to all gnome issues is to use good old fvwm ;-)
 
I think I've decided to update my gnome 3 to fvwm for my desktop :D
 
Why you're not doing a GUI yourself  +Linus Torvalds ? Something that is like Gnome 2.3, something that we all know, works well, doesn't have a shit load of useless gfx-effects and has a very small footprint and not a ton of dependencies like kde4 or gnome3.

Something like http://mate-desktop.org, but build from scratch to use the newest technologies and fit well with them. Like building a car that looks old and everybody is used to know it, but powered by  a all-new engine. 
 
I really like gnome3. I think it looks really nice and makes me very productive. For what it's worth, you are able to install and run gnome2, gnome3, unity and whatever else on Ubuntu 12.04. You can choose your desktop easily at login. Why stick with fedora?
 
I've always used Kubuntu and it comes everything just working out of the box
 
That is just a typical Linux story (although it only concerns Gnome). No matter how experienced user you are, you always end up hitting your head against some mystical configuration problems. It ain't a secret why Linux never made it to desktop for the most of people.
 
Yeah, just complain about something being different than the Windows 95 paradigma and get dozens of sympathetic comments; thousands if you'r famous... ;p
 
Mikko, I have NEVER had a "Mystical" configuration problem with the linux kernel.  I think you are mistaking the different software packages for services for "linux"

That's like blaming windows for problems in flash.
 
extension mainly means something that is used by a small group of people that can't be mainstream...or provides some bleeding-edge features that maybe unstable to merge into upstream...fix bugs? oh no...if the vendor doesn't provide you a running car but you have to find some engine "extension"...now extensions.g.o does the thing shouldn't exist at all.
 
Use kde it is more stable and enjoyable to use than gnome. Give it a second chance you won't regret it.
 
What i will never accept of gnome 3 is the whole "way of thinking" behind it: " the more time pass, the more settings we hide" and "must install a program to tweak".
Even for basic settings, for example change the screen brightness on my laptop when on battery, i must do it with a script, cause in the control panel there is anything to do it (just change brightness after "X" minutes.) 
Things can be done anyway, if you know how to do it...but why, why you have to make things more difficult??? (it's a paradox: they do it to make thing easier in their perspective). Ah, and another crazy thing is the: "disable touchpad when typing" time delay; it's about 2 seconds!!! it's unusable!!!
I'm using kde now on archlinux, things are better there about settings gui, but still there are less options than there was in the past (no option to disable touchpad when typing here). So is this a trend to think users are dumb??? Sure gnu/linux users are not, so it's a nonsense. Sorry for the long post!
 
Sensible defaults, commonly changed stuff exposed in settings, advanced stuff only slightly tucked away. This should be drilled into every UX designer's head. It is possible to please both n00bs and power users.
 
Linus, looks like a lot of guys just waiting when you write your own DE too
 
Can't believe there are more people that kept using Fedora 14 for such a long time, (last Fedora with GNOME2). I honestly got rid of GNOME since the whole GNOME3 thing, running KDE and loving it.
 
Linus: Today you touched the very very core problem of Linux for End-users. You have to know the "magical configuration" otherwise UX is very bad.
:(
 
felt the same way. installed cinnamon on ubuntu 12.04, very happy now!
 
I was unable to stomach gnome3 on any level, so I installed Linux Mint with Cinnamon (1.4).  Seems pretty much useable and easy to change most settings.    However, I feel a little silly when I tell people I'm running Mint with Cinnamon. 
 
I hate the new gnome 3 look. I love the old style gnome 2, so I decide to stay with the "old" Debian Squeeze.. 
 
I actually only two annoyances with Gnome 3, the lack of static workspaces and that alt-tab always changes between windows on all workspaces, not just the windows on the one workspace where I currently am. It's still better than KDE for me, though.
 
+Linus Torvalds You said you tried Xfce, but that it wasn't so polished.

What exactly is Xfce missing? To me and a lot of people it gets the work done. I don't really miss anything from GNOME.

Also, the code-base is quite small and clean, I'm sure they would accept your patches (unlike GNOME).
 
A lot of the people who left KDE for GNOME when KDE 4.0 came out have been coming back since GNOME 3 and Unity. You can be one of them, Linus :-) . Since about KDE 4.3 it is quite usable again. I swore I would stay with KDE 3.5 forever, but at 4.3 I gave in.
 
It's kind of disappointing to see so many different ways to do something that should be a part of your desktop environment...
 
I switched to kde 4.7 myself tonight. Upgraded deb stable which had gnome which I was happy with, to deb testing which is gnome3. It broke everything. So it was easier to do a fresh install. Then gnome3 still failed and would only go into "fail safe mode". Where I couldn't even change / manage my wifi connections. That was the last straw. A new fresh install of netinst. Then apt-get kde-standard xorg plasma-kde and bam! Power and options to the user. Works a charm. Never used kde properly in the 10 years of using Linux but I'm in love with 4.7 dev
 
+1 for Cinnamon. I am running it on Mint Debian Edition and am very happy.
peng yu
 
I still use F14 now.
 
Openbox? Fluxbox? maybe xmonad?
 
+Asad Jibran Ahmed Acually no only GNOME itself, but also their developers attitude. Just a few days ago, a really "smart" thing happened(and such things happened all time): they planned to integrate a "first class" xcb-like input method which was, is and will be always an CJK IM across all Linux DE. It's pretty clear, that IM at first should be itself (across all DE), then something will be integrated into GNOME. But gnome list maintainer warned me it's GNOME, they don't care whether it runs on KDE/others or not. At that time, I was like "WTF? another Apple?". Even that IM's father is disappointed about that. He said they just submitted a buggy module to his project, but sounded like they're its fathers.(off record) There's even a famous joke about GNOME development circle which is "1. gold-like design in mind and mockup; 2. broken implementation; 3. endless and fool bug fixes; 4. reinvent the wheels, back to step 1.". They just learnt Jobs' mouth but not his brain. I think the only beautiful thing about GNOME is its mockup. They have so many mockups, drawn by hand, by gimp, by ink pen, by wooden texture...one more interesting thing is that in GNOME's feature explanation, it referred to Windows, referred to Mac, but never refer to KDE, even KDE had already had such an existing and stable feature.
 
Fully agree. Debian testing dropped Gnome2 for G3 (IMHO without much thinking) long time ago and each update tried to pull G3 - finally I gave up and upgraded it. Now the fallback mode helps to survive but the number of hacks and tricks to make this thing usable is just to big.
G3 is replacing old features with new shiny, half done, slow and with less functionality.. IMHO this is typical nowadays - the advertisement is everything and the reality is not important.
It could still be OK if they did not kill G2 effectively forcing huge crowd of Gnome fans to use gnome-shell.
 
Dear people, dear Linus. I'm writing not to KDE fans. I'm writing to GNOME fans. Why be so passionate about something that is giving you headaches? Give it a little break. Try KDE and easily adapt yourself to a new desktop that is full of good config tools and programs. Also, think about writing programs with QT, that is now free. No reason to avoid it anymore. QT is beautiful. I experimented GNOME for a while, to avoid KDE4, now I'm back to KDE to avoid GNOME3. And sincerely, I should never had leave. From heart, just give it a try, will you?
 
I still don't understand why as an old KDE user, you haven't given a try to latest version of KDE, specially having troubles with GNOME.
 
Your way to communicate:

Hey Linus your kernel is fucked, I've no sound after suspend/resume on my popular ASUS motherboard. Do you smoke crack when you name things in the kernel or when you've designed solutions to handle IRQ (BH, task queues, softirq, tasklet and now work queues)?

I don't think this is the proper way to reach a solution, you're getting old and still express yourself as a teenager on a forum.
Do you want to help me with my good bug report? Not me either.

I respect your work but the kernel would certainly in even better if you could respect people.

What you find usable on your desktop is may be not appropriate for me.

Send a quick bug report and stop whining.
 
Linus shows it's bugged about Linux stuff, it's lovely, truly.
Could you picture yourself making a "you are holding it the wrong way" statement?
 
Installed Cinnamon on my Fedora 17 laptop - much happier, though it still isn't perfect.
 
I love the looks of Gnome3 but it isn't usable. May be thats why I'm still using KDE. 
 
It could be worse. It could be Unity. It's like all Linux desktop devs saw an iPad and thought "we could make a toy that's useless for real work just like Apple!"
 
+Linus Torvalds What I don't get is, if you hate Gnome 3 that much (certainly looks like it to me) why do you keep using it? Are the alternatives worse?
 
1. A gnome 3 theme swticher would be great (like the gnome 2 one), featuring theme building (gtk + icon + window manager), even if it does not handle shell theme - which is not considered to be standard feature.
2. Some tweaks should really go to standard settings. Setting up fonts should not require to install extra package
3. Extensions are not yet fully ok, but that's a work in progress

Most of this issues come from mistake on settings design. That's gnome 3 weakness. Not absurd choices, simply design trials which obviously were mistakes.
 
Try cinnamon. It turns gnome 3 into something more usable like gnome 2 used to be. That and mate are about your only two usable options now days.
 
+Antciforov Stanislav do you realize you just told the guy who created the Linux kernel and made it open source that he is using open source software and he has to sit down and write?
 
As enraged I think what you wrote is, I also have to agree with you. Gnome3 is beautiful. But it has major deficiencies when it comes to straightforward customization.
 
I switched to linux mint with cinnamon, writing this on KDE netbook
 
I am on Mint with Xfce, haven't tried gnome3, meant to take a look at it, but it's not sounding so good so far :P
 
I went back to KDE after 3 years and have found the 4.8 version to be pretty fantastic. Also, KDE apps are much more feature rich I have found than their Gnome counterparts.
 
How would gentoo solve this? He still has to choose a DE lol
 
Ok, two things. First this whole thread is hilarious. If I were Linus, I'd just post stupid shit at random just to watch you all go bat shit crazy.

Even though this is buried 400+ replies deep and I'm sure +Linus Torvalds will probably never even read it, I'll give it a go.

I think someone did answer the question. With gnome-tweak-tool you should be able to change your fonts/sizes or scaling to suit you (you may especially like setting scaling to 0.8).

 Also if you have RPM Fusion enabled, you can install the package 'freetype-freeworld' also the following two commands adjust anti-aliasing to be quite nice:

gsettings "set" "org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.xsettings" "hinting" "slight"

gsettings "set" "org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.xsettings" "antialiasing" "rgba"

After that you might want to set up a .fonts.conf file in your homedir to make Google Chrome obey your decisions:

<?xml version='1.0'?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM 'fonts.dtd'>
<fontconfig>
 <match target="font" >
  <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" >
   <const>rgb</const>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font" >
  <edit mode="assign" name="hinting" >
   <bool>true</bool>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font" >
  <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle" >
   <const>hintslight</const>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font" >
  <edit mode="assign" name="antialias" >
   <bool>true</bool>
  </edit>
 </match>
</fontconfig>
 
"the need for the stupid dual "first go to activities, then go to favorites""

I access favorites just by pressing super key, also I'm visiting this part not very often, since all my favorite apps are always open, because I use suspend and shut down my laptop once per two months.

Gnome Shell is best window manager I have ever tried, you just need to get used to it and forget your old habits, that came from old Gnome  2. 
 
For the chrome settings (--enable-webgl --ignore-gpu-blacklist) you can configure those and many others within chrome at chrome://flags/ (See chrome://chrome-urls/ for a full list of chrome internal pages)
 
I installed Fedora 17 and then formatted the partition just after two hours. I think Ubuntu 12.04 with its Unity interface is much better and I will stick to it.
 
I'm so glad it's not just me that has this frustration!
 
Palabra de Linus sobre Gnome en F17
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Hello Linus! your resume would need to propose an "Honoris Causa" in ARGENTINA for you in the NATIONAL UNIVERSITY OF LA PLATA. Thank you very much!
 
+Mantas Zimnickas: I'm really tired of the f*cking old "just use the keyboard shortcuts" crap. Sure, if you're a keyboarding person, then gnome3 is a big improvement. But dammit, if you're like me, and you write using the keyboard, and then use mousing for other operations, gnome3 is just not doing the right thing.

And what irritates me is how the gnome3 fanboys (and more importantly, developers), seem to never acknowledge that different people have different tastes. The whole "we know best" thing is a disease.

And for all the people wasting everybodys time with "Why don't you use Unity/KDE/xfce/xyz" - I've tried them. They are even worse, and equally importantly they aren't the normal window manager. I'm really not that odd. I want a few things: 

 - smaller fonts (especially window decorations)
 - sane "start new terminal" without multiple steps from the panel
 - auto-hide the panel so that I don't have to feel "all emo all the time"
 - focus-follows-mouse
 - the ability to use a few default flags for certain programs

and the fact is that none of the above are "odd" requests, but for some unknown reasons gnome makes these fundamental things really inconvenient and hard to find.

And christ people - stop telling me about gnome-tweak-tool. I know. I mentioned the damn thing in the post, for chissake! Telling me about the tweak tool just shows that you didn't even bother to read what I wrote.

I have found how to do all of the above things - except for the "flags for favorite applications" - but the fact is, the gnome extensions are not reliable and the UX sucks, and the gnome-tweak-tool (or at least the common parts of it) should be part of the standard settings instead of some random add-on that is not installed by default.

Gnome3 is actually fairly close in 3.4. All of my complaints are fairly small ones. What makes me sad is how these are not new issues, and how in the past at least some gnome3 people have actively said "we don't even want to fix them, because we know better".

They don't know better.
 
Btw, for the people who tell me "it's open source, fix it" - I've done that in the past. The patches never got accepted, and for non-technical reasons.

If people tell me that the gnome community has changed, I'll be happy to try again. But I need to actually feel like it might be worth it. 
 
Well, I switched to XFCE today - Gnome Shell started crashing X now and again and that was the last straw.  So far, it's like a breath of fresh air. I'm keeping Nautilus as file manager (so I get to keep "open in terminal" among other things) and manually copied over a theme for GTK apps and things look good.  

After fscking with current Gnome, KDE, Cinnamon, LXDE it was my last choice, but it probably should have been my first.  All the other WMs have gone insane :(
 
Tried cinnamon? It's pretty good. I would Fuck you for the don't changes but my husband would object sorry :P
 
While I really like Gnome Shell, a great many of the themes have insanely stupid font sizes by default (tiny fonts in the appwell, huge (and bold) fonts everywhere else) so using the slider in the accessability menu just makes things worse, I always end up having to muck arounnd with the theme's CSS to make it work well on my olde 1024x768 monitor.

Also; I think this is a perfect example of why you don't try to simplify beyond what is possible: You end up with this rather ironically complex-to-change-anything-that-isn't-defaut system that works for a few core users, well enough for some other people, and not at all for everyone else.
 
Cool to see that half gods have same problems as mortal people.
Switch to KDE, I never looked back just because of built in customizability.
 
sigh I really preferred Ubuntu 10.04. Why the hell did I upgrade?
 
KDE is kinda a moving target. In 4.8, it seems mostly stable and probably has most of the customization settings you want (but I don't use many of those, like the focus-follows-mouse thing, so I don't know with 100% certainty). However, I'm using Unity right now because I like the way it handles vertical screen space in maximized windows.

I would recommend trying KDE out once every other major point release. 4.8, 5.0, 5.2, etc. That will give a good idea of the speed of improvement, without making you use it full time.
 
Whoa whoa whoa. Hold on a sec. Black isn't cool?
 
#Linus  I agree with you Sir!. I am using LXDE (Lubuntu) and happy with it.. its simple and lightweight!
 
Too much beef not enough miracle.
 
you can make gnome3 usable by installing gnome-tweak-tool and all the gnome-shell extensions available in fedora repos...

yum install gnome-tweak-tool gnome-shell-extension*
 
The fact that you need to install another package to setup your desktop proves that Gnome doesn't fit any usable use case. It is indeed horrible to setup. 2 main reasons for me : 1. gnome devs don't try and criticize other desktops as much as they should, so that they don't know other use cases than theirs. 2. C is not an object oriented language and it is more difficult to link modules and apps together. Gnome is developed at a snail speed. I don't say it should not exists but, to me, it has been surpassed by more modular and dynamical systems like KDE or LXDE..
 
Linus, it's been several years since you began to complain about Gnome behavior, orientation and team. Why don't you just switch / try something else ?!! Trying to shake and patch Gnome is like trying to move a menhir by hands : there's no handle, it's too heavy and, finally, it is better to leave it at its place for historical reasons. Anyway, only Obelix can do it ! ;)
 
Keep patience, with time lot of things changes, and gnome 3 is still under development, effects are coming to it slowly.
 
Having started using Linux as a desktop again on a regular basis, I think it's taken a giant step backwards over the last 10 years. The windows envy and attempts to dumb down the UI and make it more 'accessible' to the mainstream has lead to a broken thing that is not really useful for anyone. I spend 20 minutes yesterday editing an XML file under an Adium directory so that the font size is readable in Empathy!
 
I've been sticking to unity, and, well, it does get my work done, though it's kinda broken in places.....
 
+Ashwini Patankar Why should people be patient with what worked before, but now doesn't because some jackasses went and broke everything for their own amusement?

This is the problem with faildesktop.org, they keep ripping things up and replacing them with some undeveloped toy.  This is a nightmare for users who need stable shit which works and isn't constantly undergoing endless wheel reinventions.  The wheel is round for a good reason.
 
I use Awesome nowdays. And, yes, it's awesome.
I got sick to these all in one packs.
 
Unity in Ubuntu 12.04 is light-years ahead of Gnome3. Very well put-together, and easy to use.
 
Yea.... at fc15 I switched back to enlightenment (after a looooong time using gnome 2), and haven't found a reason to use gnome3 since. Updated my desktop and laptop to fc17 this past Friday and gave gnome 3.4 a fair shot. Its usable on my laptop, but on my quad display workstation, puke. Gnome 3 was not designed with multiple displays in mind, it handles them horribly. Back to e17!
 
How to fix gnome: sudo yum remove gnome
Followed by: sudo rm -r gnome
 
Gahh! It removed the stars! (posting on iPod touch not desktop) don't know if people reading my previous post can see them, but if gnome is bold that means put stars around it.
Mick T.
+
1
2
1
 
The Gnome2 fork called Mate might be an option:
http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download

On Ubuntu I tried Gnome 3 but gave up; how virtual desktops worked annoyed me. I used to use KDE and tried KDE4 (again) and I just didn't like it. I'm back with Ubuntu's Unity interface which, while not perfect, just usually tends to get out of the way.
 
for the chrome args, try chrome://flags/ - these seem to be where all the process args come from by default, so shouldnt need to trouble gnome shortcuts with it. ( incl the webgl and blacklist gpu settings )

as for the rest of gnome 3 - i've moved from 'oh god no' to ' actually i kinda like it' ( though with the standard greivances of having to install extensions to turn dumb shit off...) just had to un grit the teeth and try to work with it instead of against it.

then i got a new job where i have to use a windows setup :(
 
I love Gnome3. It's true that it comes without some features that I think are a must. But you can get it from the extensions.

I agree that there are things to improve, but I think Gnome3 it's going in a good way.

(Sorry for my English) ;)
 
+Linus Torvalds
And for all the people wasting everybodys time with "Why don't you use Unity/KDE/xfce/xyz" - I've tried them. They are even worse, and equally importantly they aren't the normal window manager.

I yet have to hear what you think is missing from Xfce.

I seriously doubt you have given it a fair chance.
 
Lol commenter.. you guys never try to read +Linus Torvalds  comments/posts.. he already said XFCE worse than Gnome3.. zz..
 
+Stéphane Raimbault
I respect your work but the kernel would certainly in even better if you could respect people.

No, it wouldn't.

In fact, the no bullshit style of discussion helps the project move forward as fast as possible; if you can't separate technical value judgements from your persona; you are not suited for Linux kernel development.

But of course you would know better, because you have started the most important software project in history, which has a development pace unmatched by any other project, and has dominated pretty much every market for kernels out there (except desktop). Have you?

Send a quick bug report and stop whining.

He has, he has even sent patches, most of which were rejected because they were against the "design".

Please stop assuming you know better.
 
Another Linux Desktop in Transitional Crisis cry. Yes, it is PAINFUL. Gnome 3 may need bigger effort and money to put things right that it looks initially.

What I can not understand why it is one or another (gnome2 vs 3), why do that extended features became a part of base desktop mode first of all? Should not reputable Linux DE (like Gnome) extend existing functional and work in different modes like: fault safe, simple classic X, extended with 3D features and high resource requirements? In my view, a basic DE GUI features should be kept at bare minimum that may allow to keep basic tool set of the program and reuse feature setting dialogs (like network, fonts settings, KVM manager and other basic admin tools) between different versions of DE. Than an "extended mode" if user has a need for extended desktop whistles. One size fits all just does not work. Too many things become broken just to have new whistles.

Ideally Gnome community should spend more time on thinking of way out to evolution through refactoring and redesign DE that would allow creation of new DE with different modes rather that make yet another "revolution". Revolutions are usually very bloody and take enormous effort and resources to finish. If you do not have enough resources to complete revolution why did you start it, just to make blood flowing? Leave this approach to those big companies that can throw tons of money to tide users to "new experience" drag! It is true, Gnome DE was in need for change, agreed, however with shortage in resource that any open source community has there is a need to be smart and do the work that allows new user experience come by means of extensions and new modes. You do not like gnome2 pop ups? Remove it from basic gnoe3 mode. Put nice  pop ups with 3D shadows in new DE mode. Regular user will get extended mode by default and enjoy "cool stuff". What is a point to write change font or network parameter setting programs again and again? Isn't it boring and painful?
 
I have a problem with Maya Mint. It is beautiful  and stable. I am running it with MATE which is amazing. However, I cannot log as root, even after tinkering with sudo su. Am I using the wrong commands or is this a hopeless case native to the OS?
 
It gets better, trust me.
 
I added cinnamin to fedora 17  its nice no crashing and runs smooth.  Nice normal desk top.
 
No doubt Gnome3 is a "work in progress". I still find it usable on a daily basis and trust that it will get better over time. 
 
Just find out you were on Google Plus. It's an honour to write some words on your "wall" ;-) I just wanted to thank you for the invention of Linux and also for "criticizing" Gnome's new DE. I started using Linux thanks to Ubuntu and know I work with Gnome Classic. :p Best regards from Catalonia!
 
I don't know what the deal is with UI designers lately. I guess they think they can break into the touch interface market on tablets and phones that are already dominated by Apple and Google. God, even MS and it's stupid Metro (or whatever the hell they're going to call it). Put the crack pipe down and go back to stability and usability and fuck the mobile market. Can we just get an interface that works?
 
Mint mate 64 bit is awesome! Mate is nice! If u like gnome 2 u will love it
 
Hello. My name is comment #500. This is the kind of frustration that slowly led me down the dark path to now having used a mac for the last six years.
 
Im using Ubuntu 12.04 LTS + Gnome3 just today, Its, nice, works to me, In the beginning I was lost using Gnome shell, but adding  extensions.gnome.org, it was easy change font size screen, titles, Apps etc. Its a clean interface, all new, I dont want to stay in the past, ready for changes? yes. I 'm testing too, some distros for old PC's, Slitaz 4.0 (Pentium 3 600Mhz, 512, 40 gb) working with Libreoffice, emesene, firefox, Chrome,etc. Easy Peasy 1.6 (P4 1.6 GHz, 512 Ram, 80 gb HD): LibreOffice, Emesene, Firefox, Chrome, Amarok, Miro, DIA, Gimp, SongBird, etc. Old Hardware, new life, A Little extra work, Its Free, but no easy. Windows & Mac Its not easy too. Just Intuition.
 
So with Unity 2D dead, and Gnome 3 clearly not ready, what should I use to get a nice environment and NOT have to use Compiz? I like Unity, as a principle. I just hate Compiz.
 
Gnome3 sucks, no other word for it. I use Zorin-OS 5.2 instead, works far better! And Zorin is build on Ubuntu but done right :-)
 
"designed specifically for Windows users who want to have easy and smooth access to Linux." - Ugh no.
 
Try Linux Mint with CInnamon (can also install on Ubuntu), works wonders and seems to be pretty customizable.

I think the people who develop the gui's really need to stop thinking like developers and think like notmal users, grab a few people off the street and let them play with the interface and see what they think before releasing it, the inferace you're developing isn't just for you.

In the end I feel that will always be a sore spot with Linux as much as I love it, the gui always just seems not as polished as Mac/WIndows, and I know some people are screaming holy hell for me even mentioning that since "real Linux users use command line", but guess what, with Microsoft killing itself slowly now is an amazing chance for Linux to step up, the only issue us that the common everyday user like gui's that are clean and easy to use.
 
Enable the flag in chrome://flags called "Override software rendering list". That will give the same effect as --ignore-gpu-blacklist
 
No problems with Gnome 3 or Unity, of course there is room for improvement. But it's progress in my mind. You do need to use the workspaces, that's the whole idea. Otherwise it will get a mess indeed if you have 20 open windows on one workspace.
 
at me...i have download all repositories of "debian squeeze" on hard drive!! and i'm really sitisfact of linux drive...

keep on movie!!! guide of them!!!
 
+Gregory Jones
It's better I'll grant you that, but it's flaky as hell (at least on my machine). I'd worry kernel development would slow to a glacial pace if Linus had to do his work on it!
 
I run Gnome 3 on Ubuntu 12.10 (27 inch Acer) but also on Fedora 18 on 2 laptops and  do not have any issues.
 
just a rif...

gnome3 with "gnome-shell" is the serious "live" of gnome for the move people...it's a day Name...
for me,gnome 3 is not existing...for real ...this OS name is unknown
this OS is a "shell" of gnome...not gnome...it's a "live" of gnome

...i rule for an evident destiny ...

good luck for the congratulation

...linux proposed an "OS" for this "world-day-name"...also linux assumed the "strict" voice

i love free OS...but serious man exist and ,for this man, linux rule for...security is very important when a person want a "cool" drive ...waiting not problem ...loving a serious OS...not a beta version...and not installing a "driver" for "graphic card" for this run OS...

day day day is now...i rule this...no??

...low ride...but sur ride

but left mine...Linus is the chief...^^ and better see the reality of linux

and for my write for...i'm not sure...^^
 
it's just my vision of this...perhaps wrong idea..

Linus is the chief^^ ...not me...and my write is a simple idea
 
I tried to be patient, I know there's a learning curve to everything... But after 4 months of using it 6 - 10 hours per day every weekday gnome3 still feels like sabotage!
 
i rule for "linux"...linux is the "magic-sytem"...redress guide...EvE...in this "world" !!! waouuuuw !!!!
 
Liked the stability of Fedora 18.  Could not stand the stupid 'almost unity' gnome 3 interface.  Tried KDE.  Felt like it was slow and I had to fight it too.  Almost (almost) removed it.  Then read "XFCE" and gave it a try.  Waola!  Fantastic!!  Back to liking it. Eerything working as it should!!!
 
I honestly used to love gnome 3 but as they keep adding features and changing things it seems to be become less stable and it is never backwards compatible with extensions and themes. I got tired of having to reconfigure everything after each version update. I am migrating to fluxbox. Don't get me wrong I still love the gnome 3 project but it has become a hindrance for me in daily computing more than an asset.
 
That was the most brilliant rant i have read in a long time! I really hope the Gnome developers read it! I am toying around with the idea of migrating to Fluxbox. I am playing with it in Virtual Box to see if I can get it just right. I am getting close...
 
One only has to read this thread to have a full understanding why Linux
has not taken over the desktop. The average joe-blow computer user must have a point and click environment to work in. Since the dev's
have taken the Microsoft way of doing things i.e. "they know best what the user needs, and always changing options, and sometimes not for the better, linux will not advance to a greater desktop share.
They must have a desktop configuration that just gets the work done!
And I am a lover of Linux.
Nolan
 
I had that same problem with the fonts and themes not support quiet right in gnome 3.  It taken me about to 3.8 to finally get the themes and workablitliy that I had with gnome 2.x.   I was so use to the desktop medefor that it was very hard at first to like gnome 3 but now that I have worked out my frustration it is starting to work for me.   There is the MATE project that has done an outstanding job of carrying on gnome 2 into the furture.
 
Oh my god, are you crazy? You rejected Xfce ??? Gnome 3 is a shit......
 
Linus, I always assumed it was you that someone had to fuck to cause a change under the hood, any Linux-related hood.

Now I don't know what to think --- which was probably your intention in putting it in such choice language. My only possible conclusion is that you don't control everything Linux-related. And that smashes part of my world view.
 
Gnome 3 is the worst DE ever. But if you want moreusability and have big screens you might wanna try Gnome + Xmonad version just install Xmonad and configure it
 
So this is nearly an antique thread, now, and still a problem.  I've totally ditched gnome, as I'm sure many have, and use XFCE or LXDE exclusively.  Not nearly so much bloat and issues.  It's small wonder the Windows folks point at Linux and laugh, there really are some foul choices being made.  Makes one want to develop a new, clean, OS.  ....wait.
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