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Nov 25, 2014
Here's a video of Jordan Hubbard's talk on the next 10 years of FreeBSD that I posted about earlier. The interesting bits about init systems (and where he indicates the necessity of having something like systemd in place) starts around 27:23.
Pretty good talk in general, and it would be great to see the FreeBSD folks innovate in that area. I would love to be able to steal a couple of ideas from them. Since SMF and launchd progress kinda slowed down to 0 I miss being able to look for inspiration from other projects!
Pretty good talk in general, and it would be great to see the FreeBSD folks innovate in that area. I would love to be able to steal a couple of ideas from them. Since SMF and launchd progress kinda slowed down to 0 I miss being able to look for inspiration from other projects!
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+Peter da Silva I'm sorry, but if you say something like that you actually have to explain WHY these dependencies were a problem. Moreover, there isn't a strict dependency on "systemd APIs", just projects like GNOME or KDE that decided to migrate to logind.
If you can't accept that, you're free to fork these projects and do whatever you want. However, there is something fundamentally wrong with the attitude to tell developers what to do and what not. Everyone is free to write the software they want.
If Linus Torvalds decides to drop Linux altogether and write Windows applications, he's free to do that. No one can keep him writing the code he wants.
And the same is true for the GNOME, KDE and systemd developers. They have decided to replace the old init system and the session managament with a new design and they're free to do that.Dec 9, 2014
Dependencies are inherently a problem.
* They increase the complexity of a system, because you have to include everything it's dependent on as part of the system. This makes debugging harder, because you can't eliminate problems in the subsystem you're dependent on by switching it out.
* They decrease the portability of the software, because it now requires the dependency and so it can no longer run on platforms that don't include that dependency. This is the biggest one, particularly for FreeBSD users who are already unable to use projects that have unnecessary Linux dependencies.
"If Linus Torvalds decides to drop Linux altogether and write Windows applications, he's free to do that."
That doesn't mean it wouldn't be a problem. Just because someone is free to do something that causes problems doesn't mean those problems don't exist.Dec 9, 2014- +Peter da Silva Again, then go ahead and fork. You don't solve these "problems" (I put that in quotation marks because I don't agree) by ranting here but by writing actual code.
You're free to jump the Gentoo, Slackware or *BSD band wagon if you disagree what's happening here. No one forces you to use a systemd-based desktop.Dec 9, 2014 - I use FreeBSD. I'm trying to draw the distinction between "a new init system" and systemd, explain why FreeBSD using a new init system doesn't necessarily imply that it's going to something like systemd, and explain why people object to systemd because it's not "just a new init system".
If you're not interested in understanding other people, just say so. I have no interest in trying to teach someone who doesn't care about learning.Dec 9, 2014 
OK guys, please find a different place to discuss this. The next one who comments here, discussing whether systemd is evil or not (regardless which side you are on) I'll block right-away. You have been warned, and you are welcome!Dec 9, 2014
+Lennart Poettering Great, block me, I want absolutely NOTHING to do with "Lennart Linux" thank you very much!49w