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My other big concern is the several large govt run programs, SS and Medicare, are on the verge of collaspe. Not a great track record for govt programs. SS is a giant Ponzi scheme and I doubt I will get any money from it. Medicare continues to add to the debt every second. Reform those and prove to me the govt can run something in budget and effectively and I will be open minded.

Throwing my health care to govt control now would be a disaster....
LanceMan H's profile photoLen B's profile photo
Len B
You seem to have so much faith in our current insurance driven health care system which is the most expensive in the world which offers less and less every year to consumers with more and more out of pocket expenses.Meanwhile these companies like United Health Care continue to get richer and richer because they will decide if you get insurance or not.Both Medicare and SS can be fixed. Medicare for all would definitely help because everyone would be in the pool which would lower costs for all.Would you feel more comfortable with privatization of medicare? Then insurance companies would then be in position to determine which seniors get medicare and which do not.It seems that most seniors now like their medicare and don't want anyone to "mess with it" Many will also say the same about their SS.I do not think SS is a giant Ponzi scheme the famous governor from Texas labeled it.Should we just get rid of SS and let everyone fend for themselves? How many young people even think about SS or saving for retirement when they begin working.Fortunately our current system takes care of this at least with SS.What your world look like without medicare and SS??
Len B
In the affordable health care plan the government restrictions such as plans not crossing state borders is no longer an issue. That was a Republican idea which was accepted.As far as young people I am sorry to disagree you. Maybe a few think about this but most do not. This current private insurance driven health care system is totally dysfunctional.I have worked in health care for 30 years trust me it is broken.Competition thus far has not worked to keep costs down.Even the current affordable health care act with the mandate will only help some to keep costs down. We are headed to single payer whether you like it or not.Most of whom run this type of system in other countries spend half the amount as we do and in many instances the care is as good or better.
Len B
Everyone uses health care.Even if you are healthy does not mean you will never get sick or become injured in the future.Going to the E.R. when you are ill without insurance is not free. You may not need to pay but others like myself whom have health insurance will pay higher premiums to pay for your care. This is no fair and is irresponsible if you choose to go without health insurance.So to answer your question to make the system fair and lower costs you either need a mandate or single payer system and that is the reality.I personally like the current system in Taiwan which is a single payer system
Actually I can't find the spot where you are allowed to sell insurance across state lines. As far as I can tell it's not in there. I also agree that SS can be saved. It won't be, but it can be. The current govt, either Dems or Reps don't have it in them to fix it. I am with Clayton, I have paid into the system for 31 years so far. When it comes time for me to retire in 2034, there will be no money left for me. In my mind that is outright theft or a Ponzi Scheme. Either way, I end up on my own anyway.

In addition, Clayton is totally correct. I know of no govt program that is well run and not bloated. How can we trust them with something so vital when they have shown over the decades that they just can't do things correctly. I am very happy with my benefits and since no one can spell it out for me in black and white how I gain in this. I don't mean well it should do this or it might do that, why should I support? Afterall, my responsibility is to support my family and to be concerned about them.

Also, the penalty for not having insurance is only like $700 and its a tax thing. Oddly, since 50% of americians don't actually pay taxes, how are we going to charge them that amount?
Len B
Where does your distrust of government come from? Did you trust the government when Bush was in charge?Why would you trust the free market system when it clearly is not working to manage escalating health care costs.You want to put your trust in companies like United Health Care.Check this out....
Give me a massive social program that they do well....just one? I didn't trust it then either. I would ask why you have blind trust in them. I pointed out SS as a big concern and no one has made a move to fix it in my lifetime....never will. I have said over and over, I would be open to a program that spelled out how it would affect me. The current law has no hard numbers or facts in it. So I am left to wonder how it will wreck my benefits. See, my wife is disabled and I relay on those benefits to provide her care. I can't allow anything to put those in danger.

Also, I maintain my position that the law is not a total solution, and I don't believe that half a solution is better then none. Since it needs work and the party that presented it no longer controls the govt, they will never be able to complete it or fix it.

I do see what you are saying, but I am talking about right now, real life...not what might happen, what could happen. Write me a clear cut, ironclad law and we can talk. BTW, the Canadian Health act is 14 pages and its in both French and English.

I also feel it's healthy for people to distrust those who endanger their way of life. The current govt has spent more then its means, regulated companies to death, given guns to terrorists, sued states over legally passed state laws and now wants to mess with my healthcare with no clear cut plan. They have earned my distrust.
Here's the paragraph I was looking for:

Individuals who fail to maintain minimum essential coverage will be subject to a penalty equal to $750. The fee for an uninsured individual under age 18 is one-half of the adult fee. The total household penalty may not exceed 300% of the per-adult penalty.

The penalty amount will be phased in over the years 2014–2016 and will be indexed for inflation after 2016. However, liens and seizures are not authorized to enforce this penalty, and noncompliance will not be subject to criminal penalties.

There is no way to actually collect the money? And even if they could, 750 is way less then the price of benefits.
Len B
I suppose you will need to search out a web site to support your beliefs since nothing I say matters.
The State line question:

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PACA) includes provisions that allow the purchasing of health insurance across state lines. However, these provisions are structured somewhat differently than earlier proposals. The differences are intended to provide states with more consumer protections from having those regulations undermined by cross state sales of insurance. The most important differences between the PPACA compact provisions and earlier interstate sales provisions are that the PPACA requires all states to comply with a minimum level of insurance regulation, and cross state sales would not be permitted in a state unless that state affirmatively joined a compact with one or more other states.

Please read the final sentence. I stand by what i said.
Len B
So you do not want consumer protection??
The link you sent me about good govt programs needs a re read by you. Some of those programs are failing as we speak and others are on life support do to the debt and waste.
If we had a single payer system, how could we, the citizens, be assured that there wouldn't be a govt change and giant cuts to programs. This actually happened in Canada in the 1990s. Their economy had a downturn and the Healthcare program experienced large cuts.
Len B
So Clayton whom are you labeling as getting free care.Would it happen to be the poor or disabled??
Len B
Clayton yes I agree you are quite selfish.At least I did not have to say it first.That kind of attitude should take you a long way in life.Good luck!
Len B
I think you two guys will disagree with me on just about everything I say. It is now pretty clear to me why we are a hopelessly divided country. I think I have had enough for one day.Go ahead and believe what you want to believe and good luck with your life.
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