Luke Crane is poisonous!!!
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- Hey, all I know is... Ron Edwards played The Fantasy Trip and Champions... he has plenty to say about Appendix N, and he designed at least one fairly significant rpg. Bonus: he understands van painters and the roots of pink slime fantasy. There's a story there for sure... but there's not much of a story to be found digging through this past week's arguments. I quit paying attention after a while, but I didn't see any mud stick. I'm really surprised to see that "regular people" and "bad wrong fun" are both controversial gamer jargon, though. Who knew?!Jan 18, 2015
- For me, like I am aware of the Forge as:
*Place that inspired games like Burning Wheel, ___ World, Lady Blackbird, that I have tried and which do nothing for me for reasons I find interesting but which the people involved are not interested in discussing . So these are games I can't even learn much from the experience of not enjoying because the commitment to discussing how game meets audience seems so low.
*Place that produced the most confused, sensitive and timid parts of my own audience and that of the wider DIY D&D scene. People who seems curious and eager but terrified.
*Place that produced theories and jargon which are used freely on RPGnet but which nobody has ever really explained and which, on the face of them, seem wrong but nobody wants to defend them people either go "We'll talk about it later" or they go "well I don't believe these ideas but they helped me at the time"
*Place that produced a certain social constellation which seems both A) Extremely persistent and B) Extremely eager to deny its own existence. Like to hear people tell it Jason Morningstar, Paul Czege, Andy Kitkowski, Luke Crane, Ron Edwards, Anna Kreider, Willow Whatshername, Vincent Baker, Jessica Hammer, Ralph Mazza and John Harper have never heard of each other ever and have never agreed about anything, ever. And if you go "Apocalypse World is popular in a certain circle of gamers" it's like "No way! Never heard of them, Apoc World is played by a totally random concatenation of souls!"
*The only place on earth that produces people who don't recognize "story game" is honest-to-god a kind of game and that it makes sense to talk about and that, say, 3:16, Burning Wheel, and The Pool all have some things in common
*The place where people who hate conversations come from.
Now you could argue half of this is just I am a terrible terrible person and so nobody wants to talk to me but then it's not like the DIY D&D scene is brimming with tales of people who have had successful, useful in-depth friendly discussions with postForgies . Even total sweethearts like Jeff Rients.
This is what it looks like from here. I am totally willing to be shown that all my ideas are wrong. But this is what I get whenever I go "Hey let's see if any of that stuff is actually any fun..."Jan 18, 2015
Still interesting. I get what you're saying, you don't have to explain it more I don't think.
Um ... can't tell from your post whether you're saying Jeff Rients is a postForgie or someone who tries to talk to them. Because he is totally one, so I guess I figure that's what you mean.
The DIY D&D scene is keeping its mouth shut about it, for whatever reasons I do not know. Geof McKinney was a Sorcerer fan, even wrote a Sorcerer game before he did Carcosa, and it was the Sorcerer-like features of the latter which inspired James to ramp up the Summon spell in Lamentations, and to make it a 1st level spell. Ignatius Umlaut (Fight On!) was a Forge participant for a long time. Rafael Chandler literally started his career with the game he brought to the Forge, which was promptly beaten to death with a mallet and rewritten by him into something insane and great. This list goes on, and I happen not to try to make a big one by combing the Forge, but if I did, I think the list would shock even me.
And let's talk about the DIY a little, both as physical product and as content.
Who went to GTS in 2002 on the wave of Sorcerer's success and buttonholed every retailer there with the challenge to create an independent publisher shelf, showcasing individual form factor instead of condemning it? Me.
Who published Sex & Sorcery in 2003 and broke open explicit content with the presumption of real-live adult non-denial humans at the table, prompting a wave of female designers and publishers like unto the hobby has never seen? And showcased how to get such books into the stores without kissing distributor ass? I did.
I'm saying that the DIY D&D scene didn't coalesce out of the ether or out of the sudden uncovering of buried golden lodes of old-timer players who'd survived all these years. It grew in the fertile soil whose economically-radioactive swamps, we dredged. And a hell of a lot of people identified with that scene saw and helped us, were part of us, doing it. Maybe you should be asking them about this, not me.
Maybe I should be asking the people I know from the Forge days why they're being such jerks about the history, and basically hiding it from people. I believe I shall.
Please don't read this as counter-attacking your point. In fact, your point is striking home quite hard.Jan 18, 2015
- Like I said: I wasn't there. All I can say is what the world online looks like from 2008-now with me and my friends and the women in my group trying to interact with the nerdmunity at large.Jan 18, 2015
Without you saying this, I wouldn't know it. It's been a valuable conversation.Jan 18, 2015
- Well that's good! That's what I'm always hoping.Jan 18, 2015
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