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zypper rm evolution
Sorry, that was one crash/hang too many. Does anyone use that application?

zypper in kmail
(I'm not prepared to try ANOTHER mail client if I know KMail does a great job and is setup already, just not installed. Let's see how it works under GNOME Shell)
Dinar “k0da” Valeev's profile photoMarkus Feilner's profile photoFrederic Crozat's profile photoJos Poortvliet's profile photo
Crazy thing is - I now have to remove GNOME Shell. What, I can't use GNOME Shell without Evolution?!? WTF is that?
+Jos Poortvliet Not true. gnome-shell depends on evolution-data-server but not on evolution. Either it was packaged badly or zypper fools you.
+Christoph Wickert : Have you ever tried to uninstall evolution-data-server but still use gnome-desktop? Wow. That pulled a lot of dependencies... haven't tried lately, though... :-)
Under gnome maybe thunderbird could be a good compromise. I was using it the last +10years before now being under kmail2
at work everyone uses Thunderbird or KMail
+Christoph Wickert yeah, that was it - evolution-data-server has to stay, as well as a bunch of other things. Annoying if you don't use it but I get the advantages of integration. Just wish GNOME wouldn't have gone the NIH way and just adopted Akonadi back in the day instead of writing something else... Now we have TWO crappy systems. With at least Akonadi quickly improving. Still a big :(

Luckily KMail does fine under GNOME Shell so at least I can get work done.

Also switched from Epiphany to Firefox, Epiphany has too many little glitches to be comfortable.
+Markus Feilner btw about that article - I see they claim that "Many users feel that GNOME 3 is less intuitive than GNOME 2, and that productivity may suffer as a result." I think that is all wrong. Intuitiveness and productivity have little to do with each other. An UI can be super intuitive (think of a one-button-per-screen interface) but highly unproductive. Or VERY productive but only after a long learning curve (emacs, vi etc are good examples - anyone calling vi intuitive needs his brains replaced).

GNOME Shell is by and large very intuitive and there is a lot to like. The initial setup was absolutely a revelation: clearly VERY well thought out. But productivity suffers in some key areas, even after installing a number of extensions. For example, the size of widgets is such that on my notebook, the mail composer barely manages to let me use half the screen for actually writing a mail... Can't imagine the GNOME apps being usable on a 1024x600 screen as I even have to move windows with the alt-mouse trick on my 768 pixels height. Never had that issue in KDE apps as Oxygen is more efficient with space.
Anyone who thinks vi is intuitive needs to have his brain donated to science :)
true, such a brain would be an incredibly valuable thing for neuro-scientists :D
vi is not meant to be intuitive, it is meant to be fast :-P
+Lamarque Souza yes, that was my point. Intuitive and efficient are certainly NOT on the same scale - although in some cases against each other...
+Jos Poortvliet : You're lucky, because you're working at/with Suse, and you guys must have fixed a lot of bugs in KDE. Try a recent kontact from Ubuntu - didn't work here, since months.

Sorry, feels like the same buggy crap as evolution ( I am sad, yes!). But on my virtual Suse Tumbleweed it works fine (4.8.2).

Hope this situation is getting better. I would love to have: Kontact + Thunderbird's speed and search engine + indexer.

But that's impossible, I guess.
+Jos Poortvliet I use evolution daily and it was mostly crashing due to groupwise plugin. An update for the entire evolution stack in in the queue for 12.1 though (much more stable).
+Dinar Valeev : Which GW-Plugin - or does the GW stand for Groupwise? Another dying product, aint't it?
GW = groupwise.. We are talking about evolution plugin for groupwise..
+Frederic Crozat I haven't gotten the gw plugin to work at all, actually - the issues I had were just with GMail. I must admit there were no crashes, the app just hung and did nothing anymore. Combined with the HUGE widgets and the crappy keyboard shortcuts, the lower memory usage wasn't enough to keep me...

Luckily KMail actually does fine under GNOME Shell so I'm not letting any tears over this.

+Markus Feilner those fixes do go upstream so 4.8.2 on other distro's should be good too. It is looking good for openSUSE 12.2 in this regard. Now the memory usage and speed and it's all good... :D
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