Without going into this particular site, I really liked the systematic approach taken by the webmaster in finding, analyzing and resolving the issues with the links to their site.
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- "I don't believe Google has ever said there is a quick recovery to these - so why do you think people believe that"
People believe that because you don’t inform them differently! you do not inform people that after they get a manual penalty revoked that they still have to wait up to a year to see the suppression inflicted by the manual penalty lifted. Its not a gradual thing. It happens when a refresh is run. This shows there is an actual penalty being lifted or it would not happen in one moment.
The connection between an algorithmic suppression and a manual penalty are strong until the refresh is run. You will unlikely recover from an unnatural links penalty without a refresh as said by John numerous times. Which means when the penalty is revoked you are still suffering the effects of that manual penalty until enough data is gathered/complied from the disavow file and Googlebot / algorithm to suggest your site is now in state that its can now be recalculated and put back in to some sort of normal ranking. No matter what you do in that time it is unlikely that you can rank competitively for your content no matter what you do.
“Once a manual action is revoked - the site will rank naturally” NOT TRUE
You have been misinformed on this as per the example above. You must wait for a refresh and your Google must have had enough time to take into consideration the disavow and the compilation of that data.
“With link issues it makes perfect sense their new natural rank is lower because their old ranking was inflated due to unnatural links that had not yet been discounted” yes yes yes yes, we all get used to hearing this but its not the full truth of the matter. Its incorrect. YES 100% you will not be ranking the same by having less links that were helping your rankings but to say you would. But to say you now rank where you should is FALSE. The refresh has not been run and you are still under the effects of the manual penalty. Also if you have removed all the bad links that may have lead to a suppression previous to your manual penalty, you may actually end up with only good links to your site and rank better. But that is never mentioned as a factor as well.
There is no doubt that you are an integral part of the forums and a great help to many many people but either yourself or john is wrong on this matter and my experience proves 100% that you are wrong on this matter including the fact that a hangout in January with John states this very fact.
If a user sat and waited for 6 months to year and did nothing they would have a very similar SERPS situation as if they worked very very hard over those 6 months on links and quality of content. They would not move much until a refresh happens that has a newly combined portfolio of that site.
If people are assuming something then something is wrong with the way the message is being conveyed. FACT!
Please chat with about this matter as it would seem you have not been fully informed on it.Apr 14, 2014
- Sure thing, Gary. He's on vacation right now but I'll catch up with him when he's back.Apr 14, 2014
- Ah, quickly though - just because you have a manual action lifted, it doesn't mean you're going to NOT have an algorithmic issue. Complex stuff, Gary.
But as far as manual actions - John has stated several times that once that action is lifted there's no lingering grudge as it relates to that action. From there on your - you're ranking algorithmically & naturally.Apr 14, 2014
- Actually that is incorrect, I think in the past it was just an unclear statement by John, we made him re-answer this question multiple times LOL.
What he meant by that was that Google does not have a naughty book that you go into and will always have some form of suppression. This part is true.
"From there on our - you're ranking algorithmically & naturally." this is not correct. John went on to say many times that you must wait for the penguin refresh. Until then you will still suffer the effects that the manual penalty inflicted. Your site may not be ready for re-inclusion / recalibration for a year +, so you will not rank algorithmically & naturally until this period has been established.
I will dig out a hangout where john states this,they are 1 hour long each and I have made notes on a few of them so might be able to find one easily.
Its possible however that might be able to confirm my comments as he has been in many of the hangouts and he has a great wealth of knowledge.Apr 14, 2014
- Gary - sounds like you've done a lot of research. I'd love anything you pass over. In the meantime, you should come in the forum and help some webmasters!Apr 14, 2014
- Gary Lee+1I would love to but I cant, I am not well liked by TC's. I am a very nice person but have been attacked on so many occasions and almost always have ended up being correct in my statements only to be torn apart by people like Lysis. My biggest gripe is that Google relies on TC's to deal with their issues and fails to give them all the info they need> Its an incredbily bad user experience for web site owners, especially when some knowledgeable website owners know more than the TC's who demand otherwise only to be proven wrong. But by then the hurled abuse is so strong that you have been totally made a fool of even though you have ended up being correct.
My only safe haven has been with John and I help anyone 100% free of charge that comes to em and asks for it.
there are so many instances in the past that have ended up the way around I said it would but the advice to others has been different that I cannot wage a war/debate on each subject.
people come to the forums regardless if they did something wrong, they are showing face and want to solve the issue. Aggravating people in need is not something I want. People come in and lie and all sorts and too many people are too quick to judge why they are in that position and it all comes down to unclear facts from Google.
Google is far more concerned with hiding facts from would be spammers than it is from disclosing them to legitimate users. This will always end in the same result. The spammers will figure it out first and spread the word even with blackhat methods and game the system. The businesses will not be able to compete mostly SME's and will see no choice but to do the same thing as Google indicates to them that this is a method to rank.
The churn and burn spammers move on to the next method and the only people affected badly by the algo updates are the genuine business owners. They come to forums and get blasted and given wrong information in many cases.
The system does not work. I have no interest in helping people on the forum for this matter but I will dedicate all my FREE time to helping people for FREE. I help on MOZ when I can and where there are not so many self righteous know it all Google lovers. that's not an attack on anyone its simply the experience too many people have and unless Google wants to have paid staff dealing with these issues then the best bet is an independent service like MOZ and to also participate in hangouts with people like John where they can actually have a face to face voice chat with a Google employee who can give cold hard facts to questions and always gets back to people if he is unsure with the exact answer they need.
Once again I have always seen you on there to give good advice to the best of your knowledge and its widely appreciated. I greatly respect and a few other TC's opinions as they participate in these hangouts frequently.Apr 14, 2014