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John Lato
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+Robert Harper​ breaking this out of the other post to not derail discussion there.

After 20 years of making the same arguments I'm sure you're tired of it, but I'm really just trying to understand where you're coming from because at present I don't. I'm not even sure if your argument is technical or pedagogical in nature. I didn't specify Haskell but I'm happy to work with it (we all dance with a devil, impurity for you and bottoms for me).

Consider newtype F = F (Bool -> Int). I claim that I can write a program that will, for some "useful input" f of type F, produce an output string of valid Haskell that defines a function f' :: Bool -> Int such that f(x) == f'(x) for all x in Bool (modulo f under the newtype wrapper). Or outputs a textual description of the function sufficient to allow a competent Haskell programmer to construct such a function. In either case, I argue that this output is a valid depiction of the input function and useful to understand the behavior of said function. I slightly loosely define "useful input of type F", as a function f where f(True) /= f(False), neither f(True) nor f(False) is bottom, and f(x) can be computed in a reasonable timeframe, I.e. wouldn't be confused with bottom. I claim that there are a large number of such functions available and I can provide appropriate members on demand.

Do I understand correctly that you argue my claim is not possible? If so, I would really appreciate it if you could explain your position better; I hope you appreciate that in the face of a constructive example, simply claiming it isn't possible is hardly convincing.

If you agree that my claim is possible, perhaps you could loosen the constraints appropriately so it's not longer possible?

Note, I can remove the inequality constraint on the inputs. I'm not happy about it as doing so as it's a dirty ugly hack, but I believe it's logically sound.

Winesaps are pretty much the best-kept secret of the apple family.

The pale lily
Pushes tender shoots through Earth
Bashō surpassed form.

I'm too lazy to figure this out myself, so a fun problem for anyone who likes probabilities, related to the birthday paradox.

How many couples do you need to have at a party so that the probability of two couples having the same birthdays is >0.5?

Dear lazyweb,

I'm in the market for a new vacuum cleaner. I'm considering the Dyson Cinetic Big Ball, but have some concerns about its longevity and that it doesn't actually perform any better than cheaper alternatives.

I'm primarily looking for an upright that is good for pet hair and dust particles, and hopefully that will perform almost as well in 3-4 years time as now. Any recommendations?


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If you're creating art or music functionally, please consider submitting something to #FARM2016 The scope is quite wide so you might not even realize yet that you could submit your work.

Here's the official description:

FARM encourages submissions from across art, craft and design, including textiles, visual art, music, 3D sculpture, animation, GUIs, video games, 3D printing and architectural models, choreography, poetry, and even VLSI layouts, GPU configurations, or mechanical engineering designs. Theoretical foundations, language design, implementation issues, and applications in industry or the arts are all within the scope of the workshop. The language used need not be purely functional (“mostly functional” is fine), and may be manifested as a domain specific language or tool. Moreover, submissions focusing on questions or issues about the use of functional programming are within the scope.

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My flight today was cancelled and I can't go home for a few more days. TBH I'm probably happier with this outcome.

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Ron has decided that he likes the sleep sack.

A few days ago I had a realization. What if the bailout terms were supposed to be an offer Tsipras couldn't accept? Nobody wants to take responsibility for breaking up the Eurozone, so it's a standoff to see who blinks first?

Unfortunately nobody blinked, so now the Greek economy is going to deteriorate even more, and in a few years time they're be wrangling to create yet another short-term patch. 
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