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Norman Ma's profile photoJohn Hummel's profile photoEric Castremanne's profile photoKevin Kennedy's profile photo
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Boy, +John Hummel , as if it weren't bad enough that I now live in Arizona, I spent the first 13 years of my life in a small farming community in Texas. It's defiant of the odds I faced in my formative years that I actually ended up on the side of logic, reason, and skepticism, isn't it? By the way, I lay no claim to it as a home state...
 
You must have really good genes, +Jared Garner. Or perhaps your parents somehow protected you from the insanity around you. Or both.
 
Perhaps good genes played into it, but I was dragged to church twice every Sunday and almost every Wednesday night until I was about 12 or so. Was even encouraged to study to become a pastor. :( Once I reached the age of abstraction, I began to see the severe hypocrisy that was almost omnipresent in the churchgoing community. I guess I abandoned organized religion altogether by the time I was 14 and shed any remaining faith by age 24 or thereabouts.

I attended college as a nontraditional student (beginning at age 27) and when I took my first logic course and began studying philosophy, it was game over. My college years, especially my community college years during which I had much more intimate interactions with my professors, were the best of my life and had a profound impact on who I am as a person. Combination of nature and nurture led me to my current path such as it is.

And you? Raised around religion (fundamentalist or not)???
 
Damn, you must have amazing genes, man! My parents, especially my mother, tried to raise me religions and failed. I remember as a kid of maybe 12 or 13 sitting in church listening to the minister and thinking to myself, "And how, exactly, do you know this?" Then when I studied experimental psychology as an undergrad it was game over for religion. I'm the only atheist in my family. (Well, in my parents' family; my wife and kids are atheists.)
 
Yeah, I have atheist friends and colleagues, but no other family members. That's why it was especially hard to lose my former wife. Other than the cheating (which I won't tolerate), she was a near-perfect match in every other aspect, including the atheism. But I hold out hope that I can find another who eschews the nonsense we're constantly bombarded with and walks the path of reason...
 
I sure you can find one... although Arizona might not be the easiest place to.
 
You aren't kidding. I'm thinking of hanging around the U of Arizona library a lot when I move back to Tucson. Probably the best place to troll for a nonbeliever, right? Hahaha...
 
Plus, I can catch up on my journal articles. :)
 
Yeah, a university is probably your best bet.
 
Gotta get to sleep now (still working graveyards) :( I'm sure I'll catch you tomorrow at some point. Have a great day John.
 
Yeah... that. On the bright (?) side, at least it wasn't our contemporaries who did it. Although that does not solve the whole stolen land problem.
 
Executing an innocent is evil. From both religious and non-religious view points. Some religion has strong wording against such possibility.
 
I agree, +Scott Hatch, at least in principle. But the complexities are so enormous. Go back zero generations: If I am living off the gains of my own evil (h/t to +Norman Ma there), then the wrong is clear. One generation: If I'm am living off the gains of my father's evil, still pretty clear; even if I didn't personally do anything wrong, I probably shouldn't have what I have. But 5 or 10 generations? Seems completely intractable. In that much time, it is quite likely as much injustice was done to my bloodline as it did to any other. And how would we know in any case? Ten generations is 2^10 + 2^9 + 2^8... + 2^1 ancestors. I don't even want to do the math, but it's a hell of a lot of people, many of whom undoubtedly victimized others, others of whom were undoubtedly victimized. I think "cultural guilt" while intuitive, is probably, in the limit, intractable, unless, that is, it is sustained from generation to generation (hmmm... as it has been in the case of Native Americans...).
 
Yes, I agree, sustained cultural guilt is very real. (Don't you love to watch me free-associate, and thus learn, Scott :-)

And (clueing in, I hope), your point is that it is sustained cultural guilt -- i.e., in this case, systemic racism -- that allowed this to happen. If that's your point, I wholeheartedly agree.
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