Shared publicly  - 
 
Remember when Director got JavaScript? #makesNoSense #soConfused RT +Joseph Labrecque @srivello Abstract Classes in ActionScript 4.0 http://www.rivellomultimediaconsulting.com/actionscript-4-revealed/
1
Joseph Labrecque's profile photoJesse Warden's profile photoAndreas Rønning's profile photoPhillip Kerman's profile photo
52 comments
 
AS(4) was mentioned in the whitepaper by +Mike Chambers a few months back though. So this article is mostly just a wish-list. No one really knows anything about it.

To say they've abandoned the platform is something I'd have to disagree with. I know it does seem that (to some great extent) this is true... the work being done on the platform in terms of runtimes and hopefully tooling as well speaks otherwise.
 
In the meantime... brushing up on my mad Lingo skills.
 
Director was in the same boat; they invested in 3D and JavaScript, but the world had moved on beyond CD-ROM's and Desktop applications and shockwave games. The same has happened now. Milking games + monocle makes sense, but investing in AS4 seems... well, to make no sense unless there are performance payoffs that also make it easier to make Falcon easier to optimize the outputted code.

AS4 would of helped my Flex Development back in 2009... but not now. The world has moved on. So, I get it from a business perspective of minimal investment for a good return, but something like AS4 seems silly at this point.
 
go to the frame vs. gotoAndPlay(currentFrame - 1).... clearly Lingo was easier.
 
But surly they have learned from past mistakes... surely. I don't know. Seriously though Adobe hasn't even called it AS4. Could be simple accretions upon present AS3.

BTW: I sucked at Lingo.
 
I dunno...Lingo always seemed strange to me...but maybe that's because I was already an AS2 developer when I was exposed to it
 
Lingo was where I learned how not to program. Fun times.
 
No one's buying it, they aren't buying anything... except for WebStorm, the rest is open source and free.
 
I know what you meant, being a crackhead.
 
Can't wait for new features
 
As a non-java programmer, I just cant grasp the concept/purpose of enum types, no matter how much I've read about them...
 
Easier to work with than magic string constants. More verbose to implement in ActionScript to work around it. Like Math.INFINITY, except you can use it in type ways vs. just ==.
 
...actually, screw my opinion, let +Alan Shaw regale the pimp ways one can utilize Enums, that's one of this joys.
 
At the end of the day, while everyone talks about how abandoned flash is, we keep getting new features, new bug releases, new fixes... so work continues.

I know Jesse you try and draw similarities between Director and Flash here, but they fall apart on many levels for me. Flash is nowhere near 'extinct', and these features aren't trickling in, we're seeing full scale, rapid improvement of the runtime, vm AND language.

If the proof is in the pudding, then what more is there to prove. Workers, Stage3D, Captive Runtime all this in the last 12mths, when they've done basically jack shit in the 3 years previous.
 
Is too, is too. Great features mean jack, marketing is everything. Without Adobe firmly behind their platform, and everyone else trotting the mobile revolution (with no Adobe PR behind that fact we have wonderful features there + a future set of improvements), Flash ceases to exist there, even if it's the best equipped to deliver the best experiences for the lowest cost.

I cannot use Workers today. Stage3D doesn't help Flex, at all. Even the wonderful new components the Apache crew is working on still use the old DisplayList (and don't you start on your blitting optimizations with me, Mister, you've seen the innards of UIComponent and know that just can't work with the current implementations).

If I were a Flash dev working in an agency, guarantee they'd shove me on a jQuery/NodeJS project, not a Flash one. If mobile, it'd be iOS or native Android.

I don't see all clients, I don't see all companies, but I do see the trends. It's over. Director died quickly because there was a clear replacement. Flash has none. All my MVC/Architecture knowledge is worthless on 10 class, no inheritance jQuery projects that use a sprinkle of Angular. iOS and Android are pimp on mobile, but have zero desktop presence (albeit Cocoa is pimp for desktop, it's not a large focus compared to websites). So... hence the slow death vs. the peace out Director death.
 
...and yes, I still love you Shawn, but you're reaching your "I owe you a beer for putting up with me" cap bro-sef.
 
Hahahaha.... well, I'd say trend == fad. And WWW == dying. Middleware will rise up within the next 2-3 years, there's better, more efficient, more scalable solution's than HTML to develop apps. AIR is well positioned here.

I dunno, I don't wanna argue with you about, your perspecitive is hugely client focused, so naturally you see things through a lens of "client demand". I see things from a developer centric viewpoint, so to me client demand is bullshit, I could care less.

Developers creating their own IP can see farther down the road than clients, and don't have to acquiesce to their short term whims.
 
But I do agree in general that Flash on the web is dead. I just don't really think that matters, cause the web itself is about to take a major backseat.

We're on the cusp of walled garden's everywhere. MS App Store, OSX App Store, iTunes, Android Market... the days of getting applications through your browser are diminishing big time.

But this is a philisophical debate, and no one knows which way it's going to go. Some see the re-emergence of WWW as the true 'cross platform' solution, personally I think that ignores market realities. Apple doesn't want that, and Apple gets what Apple wants.
 
In many ways, Steve Jobs Flash letter was masterful. He basically came along, kicked the legs out from under the WWW, and walked away. Now everyone is reliant on webkit, which Apple controls....and is moving like molasses to improve... convenient!
 
WWW == dying, wtf, if you know jQuery and CoffeeScript, you set for life, mang! It's all about building it once, and wrapping with PhoneGape (<-- lol) for the next 5 years, don't you read?

Middle ware? NOW you smoking dope:

http://caines.ca/blog/programming/the-sun-is-setting-on-rails-style-mvc-frameworks/

http://blog.wearetitans.net/post/15730630465/the-rise-of-javascript-mvc-frameworks-and-whats-left

http://th3silverlining.com/2012/03/18/the-rise-of-javascript-and-its-impact-on-software-architectures/

It's written on blogs and corroborated, it must be factual.

Yeah, we've talked about this before. Even above Flash vs. Flex, you're Product and I'm Service based; more than just a lens, a completely different path in a different direction.

This isn't a whim, this is the mobile revolution kickstarted by Apple. My kids are growing up where everything is touch, they consume media on demand, and can view the same content on a variety of places. The web is theoretically the perfect vehicle for this, but is too slow to evolve, so private sector native solutions + hardware help drive profit in the short term for public companies, while the web helps use hindsight to better aim their sights (sometimes... ECMA4, what a disaster).

I get what you mean, though.

Well, that's why I mentioned PhoneGap; that is the web's gateway into app stores. Google's Play + Amazon both have web solutions, and Facebook embedding is proof it works there as well in a traditional web context. Zynga is proof you can make bling there.

Yeah, the rise of JavaScript MVC when they don't use inheritance makes no sense to me. Once I start getting more Ext JS jobs, I'll become a believer, but the Native and Flex world still calls, a lot.

Dude, shut up, Webkit just got sub-pixel rendering... well, for Canvas anyway.
 
Oh yeah, and 4 weeks ago Chrome added Python tuples... we're saved!
 
Lol, subpixel rendering!? I take it back :p Pretty sure Facebook backed off their HTML implementation though, once they realized the performance was shit and people hated it ;)
 
That is EXACTLY what the "tech press" jumped on after the Instragram purchase: "They bet on HTML5, but Instragram shows they have back-tracked". OMG, wtf, alskdjflkasjkdlfj
 
Don't you be dissing anti-aliasing, sucka!
 
It's a funny litle proxy battle going on right now, between Google who actually DO want to improve the web, so people keep using google. And Apple, who is only PRETENDING to want to improve the web, but doing absolutely as little as possible. This can't go on forever...

Then we have MS, doing whatever the fuck MS is doing.... being all altruistic and shit?? What gives...
 
Altruistic? They took WPF away and demanded those who spent years loving C# + XAML start writing C++. They then glorified web technologies to make desktop apps. I'd call that a big ole :: in Bruce Campbell voice :: "what... the.. hell...."
 
BTW, Microsoft, if you're reading, I'm just projecting because I never get the opportunity to use VisualStudio.
 
Ha, ya. But I meant in terms of just constantly funding HTML projects, for no gain other than some weak IE9 tie in??? I don't get it :/
 
Me neither. Bill Gates didn't get the web, maybe Balmer doesn't either?
 
Just an FYI, but nowhere have we called the next version of ActionScript "ActionScript 4". We are referring to it right now as ActionScript "Next" and in general, it is going to be an evolution of AS3, and not a jump like there was between AS1 to 2 and to 3.
 
What about taking a leaf out of Apples book ... 'The new actionscript'? ;P
 
I'll just quote +Jim Armstrong who, when I told him about my implementation of enums for ActionScript, remarked "Of course, you have to have enums." Java explicitly rejected enums at the start and finally incorporated them in version 5. If you don't see the sense of being able to define a type with a fixed, finite set of values, rather than a bunch of magic strings that enforce nothing, then you might as well stick to Javascript.
 
In fact, if you have Object.freeze() in Javascript, you can at least lock down a set of values...
 
I would never quote Jim Armstrong - what a loser!
 
AS4--ha ha ... it that a joke? They have bigger fish to fry.

They need to settle down and decide who they won't be alienating. Seriously, I was hopeful for AIR but now it's a high risk. If you can confirm everything you need works and/or you can deliver quickly enough to get it out before Adobe falls apart, then there's definitely a value proposition. AIR on iOS remains hot. But I'm not hopeful. Take a pretty critical video bug I found on Android (https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=bug&id=3162442) it's marked a duplicate of one marked "as designed" (though I hear that the "next" version they'll fix this). Playing H.264 videos is not exactly an edge feature.

Here's my prediction: Adobe will get more and more into making "apps". They'll make special features and fix bugs for themselves and their partners. They might offer the products to consumer developers but they'll continue to ignore bug fixes and concentrate on adding "special sauce" features they think will trick people into upgrading... and they'll have more and more new products that strip out all the bloat and promise to let you do sophisticated stuff "without programming".

I do think the world of "apps" will also pass. People will eventually be able to make pure html apps that work on most devices. Apps for individual devices is like doing CDROM but worse in many ways. I have a very simple project which has four configurations: iPad, Kindle, Galaxy Tab, then the rest of the Android tablets. AIR is still a good solution despite all my bitching. But, it's borderline.

Your Director history isn't framed correctly I don't think. 3D was some cockamamie deal with Intel and their whole MO is to back out of every new technology they touch. JavaScript was added long after Director was on a death spiral. It was SLOWER than Lingo--which had already gone from verbose ("set the locH of sprite 1 to 100") to dot syntax ("sprite(1).locH = 100"). Director was OOP LONG before that. It just died because Flash offered something better and they had a web plugin that was popular.
 
I don't really think people will ever be able to really make great HTML apps, as just standalone apps. You'll always need to use something like PhoneGap to fill in the API holes that the OS vendors won't. Let's be real, Apple is NEVER going to give Safari all the API's it needs to compete with native apps. Period.

And, if your already using something that needs to be packaged into various app containers... then I really question the value of using HTML at all, it's not really a good technology for building apps, it's not well suited. The display layer (DOM) is extremely unreliable, and the control layer is a scripting language...

Surely, a better middleware will emerge...maybe it won't be AIR, if Adobe can't see the forest through the trees... but it wiill be something similar.
 
I do think HTML apps built on top of canvas is a fairly interesting proposition though... at least you have a reliable display layer, and Javascript is definitely tolerable for smaller scale projects.
 
I agree there's still, and probably for a long time, a need for native apps. And, yeah, if you use something like phonegap you're still dependent on the middleware. I don't think "apps" are the end of the story though. Probably my predicting it'd all be HTML is over simplified and inaccurate.

Wouldn't it be cool if Adobe to cater to developers though? They need a direction/vision and ability to deliver. Not sure how that'll work out though.
 
That would be cool.... I feel like the runtime guys, headed by Thibault are on the right track and doing the right things. The pr and marketing efforts though are pathetic. Definitely no vision at all from the top.
 
regarding canvas... my current pitch for web apps that have to work "everywhere" is to do it all in Flash... get that all signed off... then for the most modern browsers, make another version in canvas/html5... but mostly canvas. I think it's a decent approach.
 
Agreed, obviously the major issue there becomes SEO. But ya, I think it's a smart approach as well, your testing time would shrink drastically. Canvas is a good example of how a W3 API should be built, Apple basically perfected it, then submitted it, and then everyone else simply had to port their implementation. That's why it's so damn reliable... then you look at something like the Sound API, with no reference implementation, and you get the opposite...
 
Man am I glad I don't inhabit your developer reality. Client demand will always be fickle bullshit, which is why the www is fickle bullshit. You can not pay me enough to make me work for an agency again. Burn the internet. It's back to BBSes and IRC and fucking Gopher. Then maybe we'll let Mosaiq back in the house once the agencies have successfully eaten one another and the bullshit frenzy is over. The stuff I work on, you'd be a fucking moron to want to build it in js. "Moved on"? Scaleform, AIR, flash activex embedded for frontend dev. For expo, desktop, game dev, holy sheiße. Productivity-max with no competitor in sight.

Flash is a trick up my sleeve, and it's a joy to pull out every time. Life is beautiful! (Fuck the www) (also yes please enums) (also all Flex devs are the butthurtiest Flash devs in town , mebbe own up to simply betting on the wrong horse </troll>)
 
Get this man some serotonin increasers, STAT!
 
...or you could pop, lock, and drop it... whatever works.
 
I'll repeat: Flash "dying" has been the best thing for Flash devs since Flash itself. I love to recommend anti-Flash solutions. Sometimes it means I have to learn something or prove that it won't work... sometimes it means Flash is the best solution by far. I just like to push the Flash is gone thing so I can take what's left or what continues. There is another layer of people's odd opposition to Flash. Flash devs want to shake their "flash" out of their usernames or handles! Don't bring it up at a cocktail party... though, since you all probably don't mention Flash... you know what people invariably say if you say you do Flash stuff? They say "oh, you should know HTML5 is replacing that". Eye yi yi!
 
I mention Flash all the time at parties. It's the best time to get into fun little arguments where you are the only person who actually knows what the hell he's talking about. Then watch the fools fall and kiss your ring. HTML5lash!
 
I was always proud my mom knew Cobol and managed to make it through Flash 101. I met this really cool old guy who knew, and still does, Fortran. I'm never afraid to admit any tech I know, and I don't think anyone else should feel shameful either. Years of an investment in a tech doesn't make you suddenly worthless elsewhere. Design, OOP, patterns, methodologies, debugging, learning... they're not magically confined to just Flash. If you do that well, you're a dope hire. The clients you want to work for are those that hire for those things, not language specifics... unless they really need that language/platform for something.
 
Also you have no idea how much i pop and lock it Jesse ;) we should party
 
Maybe I should develop an act around Joseph's experiences... I'm totally using that at the next social event! Totally agree with Jesse... but I think there really are fewer who would call themselves Flash devs. I wonder what hiring is like when you narrow the need to something very specific--technology wise. I see many posts for developer's needed but the technology "stack" is very narrow. I wonder how that works out. I mean, if it's a long enough project I could learn Fortran. I don't think anyone wants to pay me to learn Fortran. When there's all this old content in Flash format I am going to be gouging people bigtime. In 2017 an update to your banner ad's gunna cost a ton. That's my big retirement plan anyway.
Add a comment...