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We don't need your canned goods..... Well-said:
 
I live at the Jersey Shore. Did you see Brian Williams of NBC reporting from the hardest-hit area? That's where I live. The area has been devastated. Entire towns were destroyed. There are mile-long lines for gasoline at the few stations that have any. I'm hearing a lot of people in other parts of the country complaining that people shouldn't “politicize” this natural disaster, and I have one thing to say to them:

Shut up.

Just shut the hell up. There's an election next week, and this is politics. Now is exactly the right time to point out that we have one candidate who wants to eliminate or cut FEMA (it depends on which day you ask him), who thinks the states should handle this stuff themselves, who thinks disaster relief should be a for-profit enterprise. One candidate who said that it is “immoral” to borrow money to help disaster victims. One candidate whose idea of “small government” is to leave people to fend for themselves.

Mitt Romney staged a photo op pretending to collect canned goods to send to the victims of Hurricane Sandy. His staff spent a few grand at Walmart and handed out cans for people to be photographed handing back, and he got his picture taken picking up boxes of stuff. What a jackass.

Remember when Paul Ryan got his picture taken pretending to volunteer at a homeless shelter? At least the thing he was pretending to do would be good if other people actually did it. The Red Cross neither needs nor wants your canned goods. All that does is create a logistical problem to transport the items. They don't accept that kind of donation because it doesn't help.

More to the point, we don't need your canned goods. Canned goods? Really? Do you think we don't have grocery stores out here? We have more canned goods than we could ever possibly need. How clueless can you be and still be seen as a viable candidate for president?

What we need is power. We need the lines and transformers and substations fixed. We need a more resilient infrastructure. And we need gasoline, very badly – but fixing the power will take care of that, too.

Mitt Romney thinks the states should take care of all of this themselves. He thinks New York City should be pumping out its own subway tunnels. He thinks the president shouldn't have brought FEMA to New Jersey with him, or sent those Navy ships to land the helicopters on. He thinks the power companies whose services go out every time it rains need less regulation. He thinks the market should be left to deal with the cleanup. He compared it with his experience cleaning up a school football field after a celebration. And he thinks what we really need is some canned soup.

Heckuvajob Brownie – remember him, from Katrina? – said the president responded to Hurricane Sandy too quickly. That's the Republican philosophy in action. Need to rebuild your home? Borrow money from your parents!

Meanwhile, Romney ignores questions from reporters about his intentions for FEMA. His party insists that disaster relief funding requires offsets. And now they're attacking our Republican governor, Chris Christie, for doing his job and working with the president to help the people of his state, rather than adhering to the Republican religion. We're all very grateful that Gov. Christie doesn't adhere to that religion.

But Mitt Romney does, and Paul Ryan does, and the party in general does. No state has the resources to deal with this kind of thing, and privatizing it would be despicable. We live in a society; let's act like it. Let's elect people who act like it. Not people who stage photo ops pretending to do things that won't help anyway.

Meanwhile, if you want to help, we don't need your old clothes or your dusty cans of cream of mushroom soup. Text “redcross” to 90999 to make a $10 donation.
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Taking money from people in Kansas by force and giving to people on the east coast is immoral. period.
 
Hey +Shane Nifong in Canada we call these transfer payments and they help maintain our social fabric. They work.
 
Yea, but it is a shame your candidate can't handle a few terrorists in Libya for fear of damaging his image during the election. It's all politics and your point and my point are very valid. But nobody died handing out food.
 
@Shane

How self-reliant, considering people in Kansas never have to worry about a hurricane, ever. Jackass. 
 
I only have one comment on one little point in the commentary. I lived many years in Florida and lived thru 9 hurricanes the last being Charlie before getting out of Florida. It turns out Florida is a good example of how a state can and does take care of itself and only relies on federal assistance as a last resort. I'm very proud of the fact that Florida leads the way in preparedness, containment, self reliance, and recovery. This is not to say that Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, S. Carolina or N.Carolina, dont compare to Florida, because they do and they don't fall far behind Florida in these matters. 

I for one would hate to see how the north east handles a cat 3 or more and my heart goes out to all the survivors of Sandy. I feel sad that the New England states (and Louisiana) lack the same disaster preparedness as these southern states. I blame politicians for this. There is no reason in the world why New England states can't have the same hurricane and disaster preparedness that Florida does. And before anyone says "We don't have as many hurricanes up here as Florida does" let me just say, it only takes ONE to be devastating, and you only got a category 1 this time.
 
and people on the east coast could certainly move to kansas. jackass.

and on a more serious note, the argument that because someone needs something creates a moral obligation on someone else is bogus. there are always people in need. somewhere there are people worse off than the people in NY area. does that mean we need to petition the government to take money from NY'ers and send it to them?
 
Very Well said +Jeremy Nixon and I was called a liar for saying Romney said what he said about FEMA or any other Agency for that matter. Well he said it and he has Lied more in the Last two weeks than I have my entire Life, PERIOD. As far as Sandy, I pray for ALL who have gone through it and What they will be Going through over the next couple of years and I Thank God that Obama has Helped change FEMA and that along with everyday ordinary people, FEMA was there immediately to step in and help. Thank God for First Responders and the fact that The President and Christie got the National Guard there immediately. And I will also pray hard for all of you because I just heard that Another Nor'Easter is heading your way next Week. Now about that Climate Change Thing.........
 
what about used yoga mats? surely the good people of new jersey need those!
 
@ +David Hobby I don't recall all the hurricanes that come up thru the Gulf of Mexico ever stopping at the shoreline and dropping dead right there. In fact many of the hurricanes continue to cause damage and devastation well thru the time it diminishes to a tropical low as it heads north and east up thru the nation before it exits at New England or dissipates in the Ohio valley.
 
So you have the choice between 2 candidates? That must be the best democracy in the world. 
 
Poor liberals have lost the ability to manage life on their own. They have been living on federal redistribution of wealth for so long they can't even figure out how to take care of themselves any more and demand taxpayer funded FEMA. It's sad really. What on earth did the country do the first 200 years without FEMA and other government handouts?

 
+Gregor - thank goodness, that's probably because they learned how to be self reliant and not depend on government!
 
At least +Jeremy Nixon asking for VOLUNTARY aid or donations. I see Mr. Obama's desires for the Fed's to take out loans to help those devastated by the hurricane to be just as bad and just as insulting as Mr. Nixon, here, feels about Mr. Romney's plan to minimize FEMA and put the responsibility of both preparedness and recovery into the hands of the states. Mr. Obama's plans would have me and other tax payers NOT directly involved in the hurricane's destruction helping to pay for the clean up, the repairs, the rebuilding and the increase in welfare and other government provided hand outs.  If you truly want your infrastructure improved then get the government out of the way of business. Especially small business and the working middle class.
 
BTW, you (everyone out there) don't HAVE to vote for either a democrat or a republican, but I do understand how you will feel if you tell people you voted for someone that isnt in one of those two parties...the peer pressure and ridicule you get will be too much for you to handle.
 
I don't think the ambassador to Libya needed canned goods either. It only took Obama a few hours to hop on a plane to party with the stars then. 
 
+Daniel Curry Your vile, disgusting, despicable position is exactly what I'm arguing against, yes. If you hate living in a society so much, get the hell out.
 
+Scott Wolf - in truth, I do not want to vote for Mr. Romney. I believe he is too liberal of a Republican to actually repair this nation. Unfortunately, he is liberal enough that people who are tired of the Obama socialist exercise but still want freebies will vote for him. This is shown by the healthcare system in Massachusetts. But voting for someone I DO agree with will only promote the Obama back into office. So I must 'burn' my vote on Romney, as an attempt to keep Obama out of office.
 
Meanwhile, if you want to help, we don't need your old clothes or your dusty cans of cream of mushroom soup. Text “redcross” to 90999 to make a $10 donation.


WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
"Barack Hussein Obama - definitely a living legend -- in his own mind." Right on. For the people who have to pay for his failures (and unlike Benghazi), more of a living nightmare. 
 
Well I would like to add / throw out there that the last time the East Coast was directly hit by a hurricane was 1903. 
 
+Jeremy Nixon At least we have mirroring perceptions of each other's opinions. I enjoy living in a society, a respectful society, one built upon the fundamentals of self respect, honor, hard work and fair compensation. One where I am entitled to keep the majority of the spoils of my labor, rather than have have a government of spineless SoS's redistribute it to the disaffected in the major population centers, in an effort to forward a known, visibly flawed and impossible to achieve state of social 'reform'. Our society does not need reform, it needs accountability.  In January, when you get your first pay check of the year, assuming you are amongst the employed, let's talk again when your taxes have gone up as much 30%.
 
+Daniel Curry I appreciate your feelings on why you feel you need to burn a vote on Romney, but that is the very reason why it is doing a disservice to the other guys running for president and the more people that follow your philosophy, the less chance there is of getting away from a two party ballot. Yes it may take quite a few elections to get away from the two party ballot, but the pay off in the end is usually worth it. At some point in our future we will have to have a good half dozen or more candidates with equal share of voter potential and a good half dozen or more candidates on the debate stand. There are many people to blame fo the current situation including main stream media who doesn't cover anyone but a dem or a republican.
 
+Daniel Curry You know, I really don't mind paying the tax rate I was paying under Bill Clinton. Things were pretty good, then. Before the dark times. Before George Bush.
 
+Gary Galmin What about hurricane David, back in 1979? I was living in Ogdensburg, NJ, when that one went through.
 
+Scott Wolf I feel if I do not vote for Romney, then it becomes a vote for Obama, because Romney is the only one with a chance to keep that anti-American out of the White House.
 
+Gary Galmin FOR PRESIDENT! lol Gary, that is the worst copout I have ever heard, and the lamest excuse not to do something. in fact, what you said carries the very same weight as saying "We have never had another country attack us on our own soil (Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc) so there is no reason to build up a defense force at all."

Great plan there Gary

It only takes once
 
There are so many holes in most of the arguments in this discussion that I don't even know where to start. But I will give a big bravo to  +Jeremy Nixon  .
 
+Gary Galmin Last direct hit on the east coast in 1903?  How about Irene (2011), Charley (2004), Isabel (2003), Floyd (1999), Hugo (1989), Hazel (1954)? And others in between?
 
+Pascal Antoine Share your opinions. I'm not here to fight or argue, but debate, share and learn. It is called respectful discourse and is a major component of members of a polite and strong society coming together, rejoicing in each others varied opinions and demonstrating respectful understanding and agreeing to disagree. So ... pick a hole and start filling it in.  ;-)
 
Well Scott there is a large difference between NJ and Florida and the weather received. You talk about Florida being self reliant during these times, and I say during the hurricane season or any almost any other time of year Florida is bearing the brunt of some significant rain fall to a hurricane. So over time the government has time to build effective plans to deal with the situation. So with 1903 and the 1979, I'm counting two. And comparing Florida to new jersey is not an apple to apple comparison of any sort. 
 
+Jeremy Nixon By comparison, I wish 'Slick Willie' is a piker when it comes to installing Marxism. Clinton, we at least knew something about, and he even though he did not like the military, he at least respected us. 
 
+Daniel Curry, I would, but it's getting late here on the East Coast (Brooklyn, NY), we're still going through the doldrums of the Hurricane Sandy aftermath, and I know I'll get caught up, and won't go to sleep (at least I still have power, heat, and a house!) 
 
+Gary Galmin Florida isn't self-reliant during any times. They take more money from the federal government than they pay in federal taxes. In New Jersey, we pay more in federal taxes than we get back. Florida is a client state, subsidized by us.
 
White House Announced:
"Due to disruption caused by hurricane Sandy, President Obama has issued an executive order to extend voting rights for registered Democrats through Friday, November 9. Registered Republican must still vote on Tuesday, November 6."
 
What a pompass jackass.  Obama makes me sick. How do people fall for his BS?
 
Jeez +Jeff Jarvis I don't know if I can follow you on Google+ anymore. You attract the most horrible comments from a cavalcade of right-wing troglodytes looking to tear apart the fabric of American society. It's depressing to see this much right-wing hatred for America. I suspect you're listed on some conservative hit lists and are a high-value troll target.
 
This is not about Republicans & Democrats, conservatives & liberals! this is about fellow Americans Uniting, putting aside their differences and coming together to make a difference while solving problems and helping those in times of disasters, whether its natural or man-made! We are ALL in this together!
 
+Jeff Jarvis this is the first time being on Google plus that I wish you, the poster, would have blocked responses. A well stated post has been shit on by supremisist ideology. 
 
+Jonathan Cauthorn Is that regular off the shelf conspiracy crazy or do you need to special order that in?

This just in "President Obama issues executive order requiring all registered Republican votes to be subjected to electric shocks while casting ballots" 

See I can make stuff up as well.

+1 Jeff Jarvis
 
Last I checked, the state was responsible for all cities within its borders. In fact if I recall, any City disaster preparedness guidelines, typically (not always) follow that of the State guidelines which is segmented into geographic locations within the state. Those guidelines typically come from the State Fire Marshall's office or similar. Louisiana is a state the borders the Gulf of Mexico, not just New Orleans, and typically hurricanes affect a good portion of the state if its going to hit that area of the northern gulf coast. But this post isn't a discussion about city versus a state.
 
+Scott Wolf no, local evacuation plans are handled (or in the case of Katrina, ignored) at the parish or city level. Granted, the Governor was pretty incompetent as well. But the rest of the state was well prepared, not just for Katrina, but Rita, Hugo, etc. The incompetence really was a New Orleans thing. 
 
+Jeremy Nixon wrote his post believing that Romney did something bad thinking it was fact and based 75% of his post on this slight of hand by none other than a factless McKay Coppins of buzzfeed who created the smoke and mirrors trick. but according to BuzzFeed...McKay Coppins who only states assumptions and speculation to "imply" something that wasn't happening by using phrases like "the last-minute nature of the call for donations left some in the campaign concerned" (according to McKay and no one else), and "But reporters... were sensitive to the hints of politics at the event and took to Twitter to voice their skepticism." (last i checked skepticism doesn't equal a fact), "But even as Romney, clad in blue jeans and rolled-up sleeves, hustled around his area of the gym, shaking hands, thanking supporters, and stacking cases of bottled water on top of each other, signs of stagecraft remained." (according to who other than McKay?) again no facts of anything. 
Even McKay admitted that "the campaign confirmed that it 'did donate supplies to the relief effort' " and was likely to be ready to field questions like: "Mr Romney, what have you donated?". His answer would be: roughly $5000 worth of supplies.

I am sorry to say (and no I dont support or like Romney) Jeremy is all pissed off because of something McKay Coppins wrote which is fiction made to sound real surrounded by real characters in real places but NOT doing what McKay implies is being done.

I understand Jeremy's heightened emotions because he was hit by a bad storm, and I understand he harbors hatred and is directing it into politics which is better than at a wife or child, and I do understand that he would like some help right now...from the government...right now....but what if he didnt get any help from the government and instead got a box of sterno, some batteries, a small generator, some clean water to drink and bathe in, some food, some diapers and soap, and some toothpaste and a toothbrush from a bunch of caring people who wanted to help him cope until power could be restored instead? would he still be pissed off and ranting? Hell no of course not, he would be taking care of the business at hand, like his family, or maybe even helping a neighbor out by cutting some fallen trees off the house, or helping clean up around his street.

Instead of being pissed off about things based on a political bias and then ranting about them on a blog or G+ and using fictional stories created by an over zealous writer at buzzfeed to support a political agenda, why not be part of the solution to the problem at hand and go help out a bit?
 
I also think Jeremy will be changing his tune in a week or so from " we don't need your old clothes or your dusty cans of cream of mushroom soup." to * ok we have been out of electricity for a while and we havent had hot water or clean water in over a week, and the gas pumps run on electricity and we need gas to get something to burn to keep warm, like sterno or some fuel oil for the camping stove, n stuff *

Having lived thru 9 hurricanes myself and a little one like Charley which was a cat2 when it finally came across Florida to the east coast of Florida put the electric out for two weeks which is not uncommon. But we had our disaster kit ready at home, we had our bathtub full of water before the storm hit, jugs of water on hand on the kitchen floor, our hurricane lamps, our camping stove, our coolers with food in them, and canned and dry food at hand, our blankets to keep warm at night, batteries and battery powered radio, soap, bleach for the bath water and drinking water (remember only half a cap full per gallon) and so much more knowing we wouldnt be able to get gas, or get ice for during the day to stay cool, or have all of the usual luxuries. But we had what we needed to survive and we had a radio to listen to what was going on and we had lots of time to go help others out, and we did. All this without relying on or asking the government to supply us with one damn thing...So lets nip this in the ass, Jeremy, you were unprepared, and you want the Gov't to fix it...NUFF SAID
 
+Scott Wolf I was prepared just fine. I don't need any help. My home was not destroyed. Many others in the area are in bad situations, though, and it's pretty funny how you think a few supplies could have prevented their entire town from being destroyed.
 
I don't have to reiterate my experiences with hurricanes and devastation, because we can definitely go into some discussion about when I lived in Miami for hurricane Andrew (cat 5) in Aug of 92. Now I never said anything about preventing entire towns from being destroyed, and I sure hope you dont think the government or even superman can do that either, and it would be a lame excuse for not being prepared. Didn't (what was it..) Eilene a short while back scare you any? or cause you to think about being prepared? obviously you came thru this one ok, you have electricity for sitting down at the internet to rant here. But I will tell you this, those "few supplies" you think are meaningless or worthless, are going to seem a lot different to people that need them since it sounds like you dont.
 
+Scott Wolf What are you even talking about? Like I said, I was prepared just fine. The kind of help people need isn't things like canned food.
 
Sorry I missed the part where all the stores were untouched and undamaged and all the refrigerating in those stores are still working and that all the delivery trucks are able to get to those undamaged stores just fine. my bad. Do you seriously have no idea what I have been talking about?
 
Quick question.....how many resources were reallocated from those in need in order for Obama to make a visit?  Just askin'........
 
+Scott Wolf There were stores open the day after the storm. If you can get to them, and have money, and sometimes more relevantly, access to money with no banks or ATMs operational and no ability for the store to process credit cards, you can get basically whatever you need, as long as that isn't a generator, gasoline, or diesel.
 
+Daniel Curry As a foreigner I'm baffled by your statement that Obama is anti-american. On which facts(!) are you making that statement about your president?  
 
Thank you for sharing +Jeff Jarvis .
What we from Europe admire in you Americans has always been the ability to get united against the big difficulties.

Being Americans before being anything else.

Now, to know so many Americans think that a State should cope with things like that on their own make me really sad. 
 
...and now we enter the socialism aspect of the discussion, where true socialism is when the government controls and takes care of the people with the peoples money.
 
+Scott Wolf. Interesting point. So war = Government using your money to take care of your interests (supposingly) = Socialism? :-/ :-S
 
The US has always confused me a little. Considering that you're a Christian nation (I'm an atheist), don't you all believe in the Good Samaritan? How do you align your Christian beliefs with your lack of "looking after the poor and needy?" It's an honest question, as I've never really understood it.
In the UK religion has basically gone, but we firmly believe that we have to care for those who are less fortunate than ourselves. The idea of providing free healthcare etc is not even a point we debate any longer, it's a given, the thought of not help people in need seems so alien to us. Can anyone explain how Christians (esp' republicans) justify letting the needy fend for themselves? it doesn't seem very "Christian" to me. Maybe I just don't understand Christianity
 
 Jonathan Cauthorn. Do you have a "hard one" for Obama?  All I hear from you wingnuts is "Obama this, Obama that.
 
Too bad so many like +Scott Wolf think they know what Socialism is and brand ANY action they deem unworthy of their view of a civilized society with this word as if it means something terrible and awful. Furthermore, it's too bad these same people understand even less what American government is, considering it to be a bunch of "Thems" instead of the "WE the People" it's meant to be. Clearly, civilized society is lost on such people. 
 
Too bad so many like +Scott Wolf think they know what Socialism is and brand ANY action they deem unworthy of their view of a civilized society with this word as if it means something terrible and awful. Furthermore, it's too bad these same people understand even less what American government is, considering it to be a bunch of "Thems" instead of the "WE the People" it's meant to be. Clearly, civilized society is lost on such people. 
 
Forget Politics!  My heart and prays are for the victims of hurricane Sandy.
 
It's too bad trolls like you +Jerry Jaco don't have your "message me" function turned on, on your profile page so people can respond to your off topic posts without siderailing the current thread. Go read my blog thelumber.wordpress.com before you accuse someone of not understanding or grasping something.
 
Wow! I had a good night's sleep and woke up to find this discussion has completely deteriorated to to name calling and political bickering.  (just as I had expected) Well, off to work!
 
Spoken like a true politico... We don't need your clothes or blankets, JUST SEND YOUR CASH!  
 
My thoughts and prayers are with all the people affected by this natural disaster.
 
I suppose that's Romney's fault too. Good luck with that speedy recovery and getting your electricity back on in speedy fashion with that kind of attitude.
 
You know what, I've worked for government both as an individual and as a consultant on extended projects and I have to agree with this idea of reducing the size of FEMA and converting our efforts to more efficient endeavors.

Government is simply too slow to respond and never seems to completely finish the job. Just look to the Gulf Region if you don't believe me. There are STILL FEMA trailers in some areas. Just forgotten and left.

Of course FEMA is going to kick ass right now, there is a presidency on the line. Too bad there can't always be a politician in risk of losing their job when disaster hits! Maybe I'd have more faith in its ability to get the job done.
 
As a Brit, I cannot understand why, after such a profound event like Sandy, there is such a polarity of views here. The most important thing here is to ensure the poor folks affected by all this are returned to some normalcy as quickly as possible. If you wanna squabble or play politics, go do it somewhere else, and let genuine folks who wanna help get on with it.
 
Certain things can not be achieved by individuals alone. Reliable infrastructure, excellent education systems, health care, defense and many other services require large scale solutions to benefit the nation. Excluding large parts of the population from access to such services will in the end put prohibitive costs on each citizen, even the rich and strong. Everyone for himself is not a solution in the long run.
 
+Rhys Williams read this  http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/02/new-jersey-town-to-ala-volunteer-utility-crew-dont-help-with-sandy-unless-youre-unionized and then get back to us on your comment about letting genuine folks who wanna help get on with it. Jeremy Nixon could be out helping but his time is better spent here. Alabama Utility workers just want to help and get told to go home unless they are union card holders. See, the UK cant really understand whats going on in situations like this, because you don't have unions. Unions are what cost America more money because Union workers get paid more than non-union workers, about 3 times more for the same work. Union workers are incredibly insecure so when they see a non union worker coming to a job, a literal fight can break out to run the non union worker off the job. The Union worker is going to get a literal windfall paycheck from all the overtime he is going to put in and get paid extraordinary amounts of money for according to his union contract. Whereas the Alabama utility company that is not a union working company will just come in, get the job done, get people their electricity back on as fast as possible and he is going to get paid whatever he was getting paid before. This is a HUGE threat to union workers and their money. 
 
My point is, political or no, unionized or no, there is no call for all that nonsense, when people need help, and need it now, then get the help in there, and deal with all of that first. THEN talk about all that nonsense after. This is a HUMAN disaster, and as such requires a HUMAN response, not bickering.
 
Yeah and the fat assed Governor Chrisco begging for $$$ from Obama instead of sticking to his supposed party line of not accepting help. 
 
Andrew, according to the budget we don't have, there is no money to give.  It would have to be borrowed.  Meanwhile, $20 million has been charitably donated that is being held up by red tape, and several hundred volunteer workers travelling thousands of miles have been told they can't help because they aren't union members.  Sad, to say the least, and yet they re-allocate resources for B.O. to make a visit for a photo op.  I wonder how many people needed help that didn't receive it due to that visit.......This is one of those situations that politics need to be left out, yet it's those in power that insist on making this a political matter.  There have been so many mentions of Obama in this situation, yet hardly no mention of Romney.  In fact, Romney hasn't really been heard from throughout this entire situation.  Could it be because he didn't feel right politicizing the situation the way B.O. did?  If so, I may have to reconsider my choices......
 
+Phillip Blas Of course you have a budget - it's just negative.

You mean to tell me that if 1000 volunteer workers said "Fuck it - arrest me" the NJ national guard would arrest them all? I highly doubt it!

Spare me the NJ political bullshit - there's a reason I escaped that god forsaken place some 27 years ago! And I couldn't give a shit less about Romney - or Obama for that matter!
 
+Shane Nifong It is a Federation not a Confederacy. Yes money from taxes of residents of other States is used in other parts of the country. It's not by force. It is part of belonging to The United States of America. You paid for US highways and Interstates outside Kansas. The states have their rights. The constitution spells them out. The federal govt is the national govt. Kansas is a state, not a country. A strong limited Federal govt should bend to the rights of the individual, not the rights of the States. We used to call this idea of govt Republicanism. This Dixiecrat republicanism (or whatever u want to call it) concept , where the States are to be more powerful than the federal govt & can trample the rights of the individual is contemptable & ineffective. If you don't like The system the founding fathers created, I suppose you could try to start a secession movement & have Kansas leave the union. 
 
+John DeMicco Of course it's by force. Taxes are extorted from the citizens by force. Don't believe me? Try not paying your taxes some time. Men with guns will come to your door. You're dead wrong on that.

Shane is totally right - it is immoral period - especially since all of this can be done without force. It's the force portion that makes it immoral.

You're also wrong on the Constitution spelling out states rights - it doesn't. It say that rights not explicitly assigned to the feds is left to the states. That means all other rights and is not an enumeration of what rights states have.

And you're wrong about bending to individual rights as you describe. The 10th amendment is clear: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people". So the feds bow to the states then the people.

The states in the United States joined the union as part of ratification of the Constitution in a voluntary basis. States were always considered more powerful and sovereign than then feds. It's the reason why states have the right to secede and is not contempable at all. States do not have the power to trample the true rights of individuals and individual rights are paramount. Or, at least they used to be.

Your knowledge of the Constitution and how it operates is woefully ignorant!
 
By all means.. continue spending money like drunken sailors on shore leave. Hemorrhage money on these relief efforts while turning back volunteer linemen because they don't belong to a union. We have all the money in the world to spend.
 
I said "should". I appreciate your going thru all the trouble, but we agree.
My main point was...16th amendment - fed income tax, like it or not, it's law.  Monies collected by the federal govt can be used outside the states they were collected. Objection to that is what is of concern to me.
Folks should complain about wasteful or ineffective spending, not that one's Federal tax dollars are spent outside one's state. There are  folks out there who want to read the Constitution like it's articles of confederation, and I think they are  a dangerous bunch.
 The resources of the nation should be put to use to deal with things like Sandy.  It is right, legal & good. Disasters like that can't be dealt with well enough by the individual states.
 
+John DeMicco I object to the 16th amendment! It may be law and it's constitutional but that doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it. I don't. The mere fact that we didn't steal money from the citizenry for the crime of being productive for 137 years is a big indicator to me that we should not do that. The founding fathers wanted small, limited government with part time participants. It is not the job of the federal government to provide relief from disasters, "create jobs", yada, yada. That's why government is so expensive and needs to rape the citizenry - for their benefit, of course. Spare me the "well they made it their job by passing law X or Y". I'm saying it isn't their job in the "it's not what governments are created to do and it's not their proper role" sense.

My complaint is that federal tax dollars shouldn't exist because there shouldn't be federal taxes because the feds shouldn't be doing all the shit that they are doing! They should stick to defending the country and protecting the rights of individuals and that's pretty much it.

I'm not reading the Constitution like the Articles of Confederation. The Union was voluntarily joined by the states at ratification time. Unlike the Constitution, the Articles were perpetual. The Constitution says nothing about "once you join you can't leave". In practice however the Civil War proved that the feds will not stand for states leaving the Union and that it truly unfortunate. Force is never the answer. Force is the problem. It's always the problem. America and Americans like yourself do not value freedom anymore - you give it only lip service and instead enslave the rest of the country to fund your collectivist pet projects of charity. That's immoral!

Whatever happened to resilience and personal responsibility? Sure hurricanes suck but life is life and you should pull yourself out of the bind not enslave other people to help you (ask others for help but you don't ask - you demand!)

And whatever happened to VOLUNTARY charity and help? What happened to neighbors merely helping their neighbors and getting through it on their own? Every "disaster" nay event it seems is declare an unmitigated disaster and the fed $$$ start flowing in effectively teaching people to not be resilient and independent and teaching them to suck on the government's tit! We used to be charitable without the need to steal money from other people. You lose all virtue the minute you have to put a gun to somebody's head in order to extract funds from him to help people he obviously did not want to help or did not want to help in the manner you insist.

Penn Jillet said it well in God No when he said: Building a library is a good thing. You're a good person to build a library. I would even help you to build that library. But I will not go with you to somebody else with a gun and take his money to build your library.

So taking money by force from people in Kansas to bail out people in NJ who chose (<- CHOSE) to live by the water where hurricanes have been known to hit on occasion is NOT right, is law only because a group of people say so but is also NOT right and it is most definitely NOT good. Again you've lost all virtue the minute you take shit from people by force!
 
Not going to disagree ab the 16th Amendment.
We clearly have vastly different views, so we're just not going to agree. Thanks for explaining yourself, though.
 
+John DeMicco I don't mind that you have a different viewpoint. What I mind is that implementation of your viewpoint causes men with guns to come to my house and take my stuff. If you can implement your desires without the use of force then more power to you. But if you have to use force then you're immoral. And don't say "Well I didn't ask them to use force" you know they do and you should ask them to stop or again, you're immoral.
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