Who said Americans don't care about politics? The top 3 trending terms on Google right now are “wisconsin recall,” “wisconsin recall election results," and "scott walker." California's "prop 29" rounds out the top five.
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- , we have reached an impasse. You believe that legislation is the best way to achieve worker protection, I believe that it's foolish to depend on Congress to protect the average Joe. You believe that the individual should look out for his own, I believe that one person alone is often insufficiently powerful or loud to be heard, and that it is often necessary to band together into groups (unions) for protection and organization. I believe that when people work together, they can accomplish more than could have been accomplished by any of the individuals, even in summation. I don't believe that unions are always good, and in many industries (such as the automobile industry), they may have gone too far. But I do believe that unions can exist in a state in which they protect and serve the workers without crippling the companies they work for (no union wants to see its employer out of business--those that do have a death wish) or the economy they live in. On this fundamental position we disagree. So rather than go in circles, as we are now on the verge of doing, let's agree to disagree. Should we ever meet in the halls of a legislature, the result will be union legislation that reduces the influence and power of many unions while also protecting their ability to protect workers--a compromise between our two opinions. And that's how it should be. 'twould be a dull old country if we all agreed.Jun 11, 2012
The world system is in trouble for a reason and to cover more points surrounding the conundrum countries face is far more detailed that can be covered in a thread.
To be somewhat more objective the United States is in itself a "union" of people.. "We the people" agree (or at least used to) that authority of our just laws comes from God. The sad commentary here is there appear to be more agnostics and athiests coming to the forefront which either deny or defy the idea of a universal (P)rinciple and that there are universal moral laws which govern all things... Another topic of discussion to be sure... I digress.
Unions used to lobby to get laws changed to hold companies in check for poor wages, working conditions, and were instrumental in getting child labor laws passed .. Bravo.
What do unions do today? They put state budgets in a vice.
Part of the problem is the monolithic model you have for state agencies (not unlike the post office) they are static, not competitive and lets face it ...not very productive. You think if the DMV was run like McDonalds you be standing in line all day missing out on your golf game or what ever it is that gives you solace?
State agencies are tax based. Herein lies the problem. They make no money unless there are laws on the books that allow them to tax you. So what does the state do? It creates MORE laws to justify its existence.
When the costs of goods and services increase in the private sector based on supply/demand and what ever direction the political wind blows... people working for the dmv dot doc no longer have the disposable income they used to .. Now what?
The Union goes to the Governor and body politic to argue (negotiate) for more money. What does the state do ? They pass more laws create more "programs" and thus the spiral continues downward.
To the point the gov and state agencies and private sector are at war. Gov wants to do everything the private sector does. If you think health care costs are high deliberately you'd be right. Remember what i said about state agencies creating laws to make money this is what and why medical costs are so disproportionally high... Its so our political and yes union "saviors" can demonize and usurp control of the private sector.
If you want Unions to exist at all you should more focused on the Union that is the United States of America as once thats gone you'll be fighting for more than just a bigger paycheck.
Jun 11, 2012
- Also, what about the recent letter the president of American Hospital Association sent to president Obama about the $40 billion dollars in uncompensated care that went to take care of the illegals dumped here on our front porch. you think that money could have gone to resolve some of these disenfranchised American citizens who need it?
Talk about priorities being out of whack.
Lets enforchJun 11, 2012
- I'm not going to argue specifics with you, since we have inherently different political beliefs. I will point out though, that I believe unions should go about their negotiations not by lobbying the government ("Mommy, make him stop poking me!") but by having face-to-face talks with employers. And I will reiterate that I do not believe that many of the biggest unions today, in their current forms, effectively accomplish their goals, and they do indeed hurt other people. I was part of a school board committee tasked with trying to patch up a structural problem in our public school district that resulted in ~$5 million deficits every year with a $45 million total budget, and a big obstacle was the teacher's union, not necessarily because of wages and benefits, but more because we wanted to restructure the day to take advantage of online course offerings, but do to union-controlled contracts, teachers had to be in the classroom a set number of hours per day--if we wanted the classrooms empty to reduce building costs, too bad. So I'm absolutely aware that we have a big problem, and unions are absolutely a big part of that.
But where we fundamentally disagree is our belief in the purpose of government and what it can do. I believe that government, when done well, run not as a business that has a for-profit motive, but as a governing body that exists solely to help others, is a Good Thing. I believe it can make people's lives better. Does that fit the definition of our government right now? Absolutely not. But that's why we live in a democracy. Our forebears had the wisdom to give us a government that is malleable and can be changed by the people. So while the government today doesn't necessarily do what I think a good government does, that doesn't mean that I think we should strip back the government--rather, I think we should change the way we do government so that it works better.
On the other hand, you believe that people are better off when the government stays out of things, and when it doesn't get involved in stuff. There's certainly logic to that, and there's not necessarily an obvious reason why that wouldn't work well in certain societies. If we lived in such a society, I would be totally fine with paying a lot less taxes and still having functional roads, hospitals, worker protections, a social safety net for the elderly, and affordable health insurance. In fact, if Google wanted to run everything, using advertising dollars rather than tax dollars, I might be okay with that. However, I myself don't believe we live in that sort of society, but there we go--it all boils down to a matter of belief.
You can change how someone thinks about something by presenting evidence and logic that sheds doubt on their current position--that's how people's positions evolve. But you cannot change a fundamental belief, because it does not come from logic--it comes from an innate way in which we understand our world.
That's why I'm not going to keep arguing this--we have different beliefs. Nothing will change that, nor should it. Our country is better off for having people like you and me who disagree but can talk about why we disagree, without resorting to petty bickering, cheap political ploys, or ad hominem.Jun 11, 2012
- Bentio .Jun 11, 2012
- pesquiseAug 6, 2012