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Cliff-hanging; Do you think a last minute meeting will avoid a fiscal crisis? 

#Economy   #FiscalCliff  
Mike Mac's profile photoRodney Peterson's profile photoSpencer Scott's profile photoRachel Palmer's profile photo
No...   the problem is greed.   There should be a flat tax, everyone pays a flat rate...  doesn't matter how much you make.
This is not only a manufactured crisis, it was approved by both chambers of Congress and signed into law. Primarily so Congress and POTUS could campaign unterrupted for three months. WTF?

When the election was over, they contintued their practice of short work weeks. Double WTF?

Voters and non-voters need to start accepting their share of blame for enabling these do-nothing practices (filibuster, laws written by lobbyists, permanet campaign cycle....).

Let's go over the cliff, we'll get what we deserve.
Really!! What did anyone expect from this?? Both sides are stubborn to what their wants are and give a crap about who is hurt in the end. We needed to give Obama the boot, but the stupid people voted him in again.
Booting Obama would have changed nothing. If Romey had won the election, Obama would still be President right now. The officials who are debating this mess are exactly the same ones that created it in August.
If they come through with a deal now, that means we all lose, because it would mean that they've been planning this together, all along.. We'll see.
I am with you on that one, Joel.  Not that it matters.  There was enough damage done before this election that our economy is screwed, anyway.  All we can do is prepare for the worst financially and economically, and wait for our government as a free nation to collapse completely.
Flat tax is the best scenario.  The cliff will be avoided temporarily by an emergency fix.  Something that neither side will like but with a promise to fix it later, thus moving the cliff further out and with a longer fall on the other side. The problem is we elect politicians and a politician will always do what is best to get re-elected. Scott, you are correct, in fact, this mess could have been a lot worse with a lame duck pres.  I'm not saying I'm happy about Obama still being there, I agree with you Joel.
I'm not worried.  Obama promised my taxes would not go up if I make less than 250k/year.  It's not like he has ever lied before...
Based on how the people voted last time. I have a lot of apprehension that the voters can elect the right people.
We need 2-3 maximum term limits across the board to solve this mess.
+Joel Moran I would love to see that, it would prevent all these idiots from gaining too much power and influence. 
The people in Washington won't listen or do a thing until the market drops 500 - 1000 pts in 1 day. Only after it starts to affect their investments will they do anything.
If you fire the POTUS and all 535 Senators and Reps, then what? You've sent Curlys home and you've replaced them with Shemps.

Sacking both chambers of congress, does nothing to address the root causes. There needs to be reform of the structure, and practices of elections, and legistative practices.

The fact is both major parties suck, because we have ALLOWED  them to suck.
Let the cliff come.  I would rather start paying for our debt then passing it on to generations to come.    Time to roll back the tax breaks, cut the fat from govt., and start paying down what we owe.
The problem is that the Obama Democrats arranged the "fiscal cliff " policy, but they don't want to own responsibility for their excesses in spending, imbalance in Defense cuts as part of the equation, and real tax reform.  Under the Obama "frame", the Democrats aren't responsible for creating the debt & deficit, the Bush tax cuts were all for the "wealthy" [despite it being the largest tax cut for mid-income earners in History of tax cuts]. The big one, if the 110th Congress hadn't reversed course on debt reduction & spending, & had paid attention to the problem created by the Clinton mandates on housing loan policies, then we wouldn't have to be hearing the Democrats say it isn't their fault, but it is their policy decision making which is creating the problem.   
+Mike Gunderson I would love to start paying down our debt, however I can't trust Obama to quit spending and dragging us further down. You have to be fiscally responsible and Obama hasn't shown that capacity. 
+david husted  "the Obama Democrats arranged the "fiscal cliff " policy"

I thought it was the GOP's proposed solution that received a bi-partisan vote approval.......

The House passed the Budget Control Act[1] on August 1, 2011 by a vote of 269–161. 174 Republicans and 95 Democrats voted for it, while 66 Republicans and 95 Democrats voted against it.[14]

Hmmmmmm  looks like the Left was more opposed to it then the Right.
Trusting Washington D.C. Dems & Repubs to solve a problem they created to start with is like suggesting a bank robber not rob banks.  It ain't gonna happen in either case.  You can point blame in any direction you want, there are no innocents in D.C.  They all had an active part of this fiasco.
"the Republican-run House led by Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, ... refused to even vote on plans"

I won't pretend to understand everything that goes on behind those doors, but a flat out refusal to even vote sounds the most stubborn.  (Quote is from USA Today article.)
Republicans are doomed, there is nothing they can do without suffering politically... Even if they literally do nothing they are still screwed. 
This is too much fun to watch, republicans screwed by republicans..... 
+Andy Gray that only increases government spending, they will have to put IRS agents in motion to come track you down, garnishee your wages then file tax felony tax evasion charges against you....
+Andy Gray  they can't?   You go right ahead and do that then.
Why do they joke like this? Nobody inside the Beltway gives a damn.

Not even for arranging the deck chairs. It's not gonna happen.
Nope, we're going over.  No political benefit to Obama to settle now, and no way the Republicans settle for a deal without long term spending cuts.
+Andy Gray Go ahead file "exempt" , country will only benefit when people like you end up in jail and lose their right to vote.... 
+Andy Gray   committing a felony is sure not my idea of "standing up"......
+Sergey Laktionov   it could be argued but polls and fact checks have shown it seems to be under 30% identify themselves as Republican.  The original claim by Democrats was was 20% republican and fact checks found that "mostly true"  in 2008 polls say a 28% figure dropped to 22.5%

Pew said like 43% of  registered voters were Republican "leaning"  87% of which are white, 57% Male.  almost 75% of which make over $75k/yr, 80% own their own homes
+Mike Mac That's exactly my point. Republicans need independent voters or they will not win seats in Congress. However if they budge to their extreme right wing - they will lose support of independent voters and if they stick with independent voters - they will explode from the inside. That is why they are screwed. And poor Bonner can't get this point across.... 
+Sergey Laktionov   yes, over the years, the GOP has alienated  a wide swatch of their base, pushed out their supporting "moderates" (like me) and others out.......

Now they are stuck with a closed, tight, ideology that only appeals to their radicals and aging remaining core base.
The "boost" they go in 2010 from the tea party helped them gain ground, but that fizzled when many of those the teabaggers duped realized they were rolled-over-in-the-clover, and that movement is on life-support now too....
Always drama in Washington. Scare tactics by politicians!! Almost everytime the resolution comes 1 day before it all supposed to hit the fan. 
However, I'd argue the Dems have been similarly hijacked by their extreme leftist base, too. That is making it extremely difficult for them to cut entitlements, which will eventually be necessary to avert a Greece-style collapse.

So the Repubs are screwed for now, but when the fiscal bill truly comes due, the Dems will be similarly hosed as well, perhaps even worse. Both parties have abandoned the middle; you can argue which one has by how much, but both have been irrational for some time. 
+Andy Gray    In England if they did not pay their taxes, they were prosecuted under the law, just like you would be here today.

if you want to compare what we did to England, then for a fair comparison, you need to stop paying your taxes, and leave the country and form the United Republic of Andy.
+Steve Brown Stop spewing this nonsense about Greek-style collapse, this is nonsense. Greek economy collapsed because they gave up their currency to Euro. As long as USA prints its own money - there is no threat of that happening. Stop listening to Rush and Fox, contrary to what they say they are NOT "Fair and balanced" and "98% right"..... 
+Steve Brown  to some extent maybe, but the Left has been bolstered more by converts abandoned by the Right over the years.   IMHO, the Left is probably more moderate today then they have been for 50 years or more...

You mention Greece, but remember, they lost their shirts in 2008, as did most of Europe, when the US crashed the world economy, which is still far from recovering. They had a lot of help crashing and burning...

and you would have to define "entitlements" with a little more granularity before we could discuss them.  By default, they
include all military and other government retirement programs, retired military and government healthcare and disability programs, elderly and child care.  These account for over half of what we spend.....

Then others consider "paid in" programs as "entitlements"....

After the dust settles, the largest controllable expenditures are defense and discretionary spending (much of what is for defense)

This is why the Right is balking, they have put this spending off limits and actually want to increase it, not reduce it......
It's really a problem that has a simple solution . . . Cut spending. 
call me.. "maybe"
Sergey, we could start with the money we send to other countries . . . Ireland, Greece, etc. Then move to Government salaries and presidential vacations. Some have told me this would only be a drop in the bucket, however, it's a start!
Paula, I do agree on foreign help but the salaries should stay high. This will ensure that there will be no corruption (wishful thinking, I know) however all the perks should go, perks like ability to invest in companies they vote on funding for and many others, that is just legalized corruption. I would also cut military at least 30% and merge many departments that are in charge of same things. When all that done I would move to real entitlements which is welfare and medicare. Taxes however have to go up, otherwise math will not add up.... 
So the man that we elect to the most stressful job in the USA should not be allowed to take a vacation?

Imagine yourself working 12-16 hrs a day, 7 days a week for 4 years with the life and death of hundreds of thousands, if not millions depending on your sharpest decisions, suffering effects of chronic jet lag, reading and drafting hundreds of pages of documentation every day.....

You can't, can you?

Besides, you know when the president is "on vacation" he is never "on vacation"?  right ?
Oh look, the Obama troll is defending a $4 million vacation.  Oh look, Obozo also gave federal workers a raise!  

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United
States of America, including section 114(b) of the Continuing Appropriations Resolution, 2013 (Public Law 112–175), which provides that any statutory adjustments to current levels in certain pay schedules for civilian Federal employees may take effect on the first day of the first applicable pay period beginning after the date specified in section 106(3) of Public Law 112–175, it is hereby ordered as follows:

(Effective on the first day of the first applicable pay period
beginning after March 27, 2013)
Vice President . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $231,900
Senators . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 174,900
Members of the House of Representatives. . . . . . . . . . . 174,900
Delegates to the House of Representatives. . . . . . . . . . 174,900
Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico . . . . . . . . . . . 174,900
President pro tempore of the Senate. . . . . . . . . . . . . 194,400
Majority leader and minority leader of the Senate. . . . . . 194,400
Majority leader and minority leader of the House of Representatives . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 194,400
Speaker of the House of Representatives. . . . . . . . . . . 224,600
oh look !  The Monday Morning FOX News Entertainment quarterbacks do not understand how the game of football is played LOL

If he wanted to take his daughters to Disney for a day, due to Secret Service requirement (which the president has no control over and is required to adhere too) it would cost $2M.
+Spencer Scott again shows he really is a clueless wannabe RINO douchbag only out to distort reality, good job tho, he distorts it well, he did have a lot of practice losing the last two elections lol

+Graden Guynn your ignorant statement shows exactly  how out-of-touch you with reality and the requirements of the post of POTUS.  But exactly what regulations for you has he thought up that have you so pissed off you can not longer think straight?

+Hammer M Awl  you do know that the amount of the total raises is costs about as much as one or two missiles in Afghanistan ?  about 3-4 hours of operating our Military there ?  Once we get out of there, and get our Defense budget under control, then you can whine about the impact of a couple million $ on top of about $8T added by the GOP in the last 12 years directly or as a result of their mismanagement and failed policies we now have to buy our way out of........

There.. 1....2....3 strikes, your out.   lol 
So what about the Debt Obama racked up his first4 years?  Ohh yeah....thats was more than Bush ever racked up with 2 wars going on.  Keep drinking the Obama Kool-Aid Mike and haing out with the Sheeple.  I can't wait until the liberals start trying to collect guns from us too.  It will be open season on a bunch of granola eating, Birkenstock wearing hippies that will defend themselves with hemp and organic products.  That will for sure protect you from a hollow point hydra-shock.  1...2...3.....your an Idiot.
+Randy McSparren interesting you can not read.... but many #teabillyfucksticks  cant, your just one of the unlucky ones who must have a brother (or father)  that already caught his sister, so you have time to spew some ignorant stuff here while you wait for sloppy seconds.

I suggest you get someone to read you my post and explain the complicated stuff to you since you are too much of a ignorant fuck to understand basic math . I would draw pictures for you, but unless I drew them on your wall with your own shit, I could probably not keep your attention. 

The main problem we have started with your profile pic president.  Ronald "Debt Spending" Reagan.  He somehow convinced everyone it was "cool" to spend massive amounts of cash we didn't have, every single GOP president since then has done the same thing, facts are facts, you can not dispute public record, even though you want too and it embarrasses you.

and no one is taking anyone's guns, did you get kicked in the head by a mule?  Go back to the corner and drool some more, you fucking moron. The adults have shit to discuss here.
Fox News - Number One with America's Fuckstains and Morons! We report, you repeat.
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