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If #Washington is looking for guidance on the #fiscalcliff, voters are sending mixed signals.
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Brian Johnson's profile photoMike Mac's profile photoPatricia Holloway's profile photoC.M. Deosdade's profile photo
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Obama did not care what voters thought about Obamacare.  He will care less what they think about spending cuts.  He does not believe in them.
 
Guidance?

Give Obama everything he wants...the people voted for it, after all.

Higher taxes.
Higher energy.
Higher health care.

Give him everything .

Let. It. Burn.
 
+Gordon Sroufe he didn't care about the recommendations from his own Simpson-Bowles committee....

Why should the Smartest Man Alive care what the pleebs think? 
 
According to Fox News, spending cuts are a must. Fox News makes up most of what they report.
 
Meric, why don't you stay at MSNBC or thinkprogress because they never make up anything.  LOL
 
Doesn't look very mixed to me. 69% in favor of tax hikes of people making over $250k is a pretty straight forward statement. 
 
Over 60% of the federal budget is spent on welfare/social spending.  That is what needs cutting.
 
We need to make cuts, but yeah, almost 70% in favor of tax hikes does send a pretty clear statement to congress, or at least it should.
 
well, as long as they don't cut Big Bird and birth control, I don't care. that's all that apparently matters....
 
It does not matter! They (the "Dorks in DC") are all on the stump rite now! We are here watching the farm to see who will yell the loudest! If we thought that either part really cared about you or me? Or them and anyone else we are all lost souls! They (the "Dorks in DC") only care about what they are talking about! That is it! I does not matter if they are a Democrat or Republican. It is about them not us!
 
I'm all about let it burn.

Let them raise taxes on people making more than $250k and start with Hollywood. Do away with all their awesome deductions.

Make Michael Moore's tax rate 100% since he hates capitalism. 

Tax the 47% that pay no taxes at all.

Tax them all and see that it won't make a damn bit of difference.
 
Tax hikes do absolutely nothing to help the debt or anything else.  Most people who support that (mostly leftists) are complete idiots when it comes to any type of economic sense.
 
+Spencer Scott but...but...THE RICH ARE EVIL EXCEPT WARREN BUFFET WHO WANTS TO PAY HIS FAIR SHARE EXCEPT WHEN HE'S NOT PAYING THE $1B IN BACK TAXES HE OWES!!!!
 
wait, why are uninformed voters at Fox...I thought they were all at MSNBC and thinkprogress and beating up conservatives in Michigan....
 
+Jim Avila uninformed voters reelect an incompetent intellectually bankrupt president. Which of course means that the voters are also incompetent intellectually bankrupt useful idiots.
 
Anyone not dismantling the federal budget is just arranging deck chairs.
 
+Jim Avila Him too. He started spending too much then e elect a Marxist and he doubles the spending. What a buffoon. 
 
Can we please stop the lying about Obamacare, I watch those boring ass markups in both houses and the majority of the provisions came from the GOP... the differences was on how to fund the bill and the Dems wanted to tax the rich and device makers to fund the bill. As with all things in DC... the GOP didn't have any plan to fund the bill. This is another issue that shows how mislead people are...just because it was feed to you by Fox News don't make it true... Anything that politicians do that is tough will get resistance...(I.E civil rights bill)
 
Let's all pray our government cuts spending. We are broke!
 
+Paula Ortiz sadly that prayer will go unanswered. We'll, unless it's the military. You see, Washington doesn't do spending cuts.... 
 
What do you mean everything...? Does this mean Defense, Foreign aid, Entitlements, Tax Subsidies ?
 
We need people in office who aren't intellectually bankrupt to keep the nation from going fiscally bankrupt.
 
Why all the cuts have to come from individuals who paid into the system for decades and poor people?
 
You can't continually take out more than you put in. That's a recipe for disaster.
 
+Paris Mosley um, because we can't afford them?

As for the poor, nothing the government does helps lessen the number of poor people. It's designed to keep them that way. Why be motivated to get a job when the government will give you what you want without doing anything.

Everything the government does is a sacred cow. Nothing is allowed to be cut, but yet we continue to increase spending and add more entitlements.

We. Cannot. Afford. It.

And nobody with the power to do anything about it cares to make tough decisions.
 
I don't know why I'm partaking in this discussion. I'm for Let. It. Burn.

Give Obama and, in turn, the 51% what they voted for. Let them be responsible for the smoldering slagpile that's left.
 
Just fall off the fiscal cliff. Then the taker's won't be able to take from the makers anymore and they'll just die off. It'll be painful but in the long run worth it.
 
+Brian Johnson  We can't afford the tax cuts either, when a  household runs up  debt a responsible person gets a second job to bring in more revenue to start paying down that debt. Spending cuts along will not bring down the debt
 
Falling off the fiscal cliff hurts the rich and middle class not the poor as much...so  these takers will still get their programs
Capital Gains Tax shoots up to 40%
Double Taxation on Dividends
Payroll tax increase
No unemployment insurance
Billions of dollars in defense cuts
Modest Medicare Cuts

Who you think will be impacted the most
 
Obama has a mandate to govern and if raising taxes is part of it so be it
 
+brenda dixon-hines Brenda what polices has Obama enacted that will break the backs of this country financial and militarily? We still have the largest Military budget in the entire advance world combine. We still is the largest economy in the world by far. We just have some long-term deficit issues from our Health Care Account... Individuals are living longer and consuming up most of the healthcare dollars, but those can easily be fixed if the politicians have the will to do so. Stop acting like Obama is this boogie man... if anything his first 4 years was a continuation of GWB policies... GWB add another entitlement program, Obama did too... Bush cut taxes, Obama did too. But difference is that Obama put all of our liabilities on the balance sheet and gave the American public a true picture of our Financial conditions, Bush held the true cost of the Wars away from us and made his budget deficits look better than they were
 
+Крыстафер Гомес the founding fathers wanted to build a nation of liberalism so they created a Constitution of limited government ?

Seems legit.

Logic and liberals is like oil and water....
 
+Крыстафер Гомес are you completely un-self aware? Do you hear yourself?

"Class warfare" is the idea of pitting "classes" against one another, you know, like demonizing the "rich" and saying they don't pay their fair share, telling Wall Street that he's the only one between them and a lynch mob, etc.

"Class warfare" is about telling the "working class" that they don't have what the rich have because the rich stole it from them.

"Class warfare" is telling minorities that they don't have good things becuase the majority "stole" it from them and this country is unfair and hates them.

That's class warfare and what Obama and other Libs dish out on a daily basis....
 
+Brian Johnson Seems like a lot of people on this forum policies are driven by hate and not sound judgement. You act as if this country was built for your amusement as if you have more rights over it than someone else. Also, the founding fathers wanted a centralize government but it would have been hard to sell it, so they "Compromise", but later on in history we had a thing called a War to settle that dispute
 
+Paris Mosley ::eyeroll:: really? hate and not sound judgement. 

There's no hate from conservatives. There's a love of country and a desire to see anyone succeed from their own work. 

In the last 4 years, people on government assistance has gone up to record numbers...food stamps, welfare, unemployment benefits at the highest they've ever been. Why is it "hateful" to point out that these things don't help anyone -- the country or the individuals who are taking them.

But yet we're led to believe that the rich are the ones to be despised. A rich person has done nothing to hurt me. They don't tax me, they don't take anything from me. The government on the other hand continues to take and take and take and give to people who now have no motivation to work on their own.

What liberals don't understand is that the money I earn is mine . I do not get what I get because the government graciously lets me keep a portion. It's mine and I give to the government because there are things the government is needed for. I'm quite ok with that.

What I'm not ok with is a vast expansion of government where it continues to spend money wastefully and then comes bakc to the hard working people to ask them to pay off the bill -- which they don't, they just put it to more spending.

Sorry if it's "hateful" to believe that everyone is capable of making their own way. 
 
+Brian Johnson what you saying is completely ridiculous we have an economic condition in this country that rival the great depression.. I am sorry I would rather individuals get food stamps and unemployment insurance than having long bread lines. Also during Obama's first term the Stock Market has double.(So don't worry Brian the rich people you protecting will still get their money)
 
+Крыстафер Гомес huh...so it's no longer a government "by the people, for the people" but rather a government by fiat...whatever the ruling class dictates, we'll take it and like it SHUT UP....

There are plenty of third-world dictator countries that operate that way...if that's what you're into, you're free to go there.

My understanding is that we live in a representative republic. and that I'm supposedly represented in DC. However, me and a lot of others weren't when it came to your precious healthcare bill...instead, democrats played tricks with parliamentary rules and bribed bluedog democrats to get the blasted thing passed....

But go on, I'm sure Castro and Chavez will gladly accept your proudly proclaimed socialist bad-ass self. You'll enjoy having all sorts of crap shoved on you from your god-like government.
 
+Крыстафер Гомес
George Washington was not a socialist.

The First Amendment to the Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion or impeding the free exercise of religion.

If you don't pay your taxes men with guns and badges will come visit you.

You say you are a financier and a socialist. I read that to mean that you got yours, It's fine if no one else is able to accumulate wealth.
 
Well if that is what you want public policy to be than get rid of the Progressive tax system we have this country. I will guarantee you will not be able to do that
 
Крыстафер Гомес

Socialism would be the antithesis of libertarianism.
Translate
 
+Paris Mosley and I would rather have a healthy economy with low unemployment than people on assistance or "long bread lines"

That's not happening though is it? Think it will by soaking the rich in taxes? Is that what will save us?
Too bad you and your ilk don't care about a growing economy. Otherwise they would've done something to make it happen.

But like I said give the liberals what they want. Let us be Greece. I really don't care. Tax us all at 100% . I can be a maker and taker and get back some of the money stolen from me. Why should I miss out?

Let. It. Burn. 
 
+Brian Johnson Show me data over a period 30 years that shows a correlation between giving tax cuts to rich people and creating jobs? Now we are into name calling "ilk"? Again this forum is driving by hate than sound judgement
 
+Paris Mosley ilk=people that believe as you do? How is that a name or hateful?

As for tax cuts leading to job growth, all you have to do is look at where there was a recession, then cut taxes, then economic growth. See Reagan, Ronald.

Unless you have some skittle-crapping unicorn explanation for the growth in the 80s. 
 
+Крыстафер Гомес 
Is that what they teach you? You are WAY wrong - unless there is some super cultural difference in our deffinitions of "Social Democrats". Ever hear of Karl Marx?
 
Probably time to begin ignoring this attention whore.
 
All I have to say is I'm excited about the massive growth we'll get from more taxes and spending. Because Europe has shown us how well that works. 
 
/me warms up the fiddle and changes name to Nero 
 
Huh, funny, I thought they had to endure austerity because, I don't know, they're broke with high unemployment... I could be wrong and they're just cutting back because they want violent protests 
 
and you know, I'm excited that once the current President-Knows-Everything is gone in 2016, we have our very own +Крыстафер Гомес to run as his successor...it'd be a shame to go back to mere mortals running the country....
 
+Brian Johnson     Spending during Reagan's two terms (FY 1981–88) averaged 22.4% GDP, well above the 20.6% GDP average from 1971 to 2009. In addition, the public debt rose from 26% GDP in 1980 to 41% GDP by 1988. In dollar terms, the public debt rose from $712 billion in 1980 to $2,052 billion in 1988

Where was the pitch forks for your beloved Reagan?
 
+Paris Mosley so, Reagan increased the debt by ~$1.3T in 8 years....

Obama increased the debt by ~$6T in 4....

This is an apt comparison how, exactly?

Oh, right. Bush. 
 
I'm well versed in mathematics, thanks...it's what I have my degree in.

I don't need to be an economist to realize that $1.5T in new debt per year is a crap-load of money and is unsustainable. I don't care what percentage of the GDP it is compared with Reagan, we'll never get out of it. and no one in government really cares to do anything about it.
 
+Brian Johnson We are running a 1.5T Debt is because we are only collecting 15% of GDP in tax revenues, when the normal average of the last 40 years is 18-19%. Yes all sides agree that we have a spending problem, but we have tax revenue problem as well. Again as I said earlier our long term debt is driven by our Healthcare Accounts. Also as percentage of GDP Obama's spending is going down, we are just not taking in the Tax Revenues we are accustom to getting( Maybe the high unemployment is the reason behind that, but tax cuts towards rich is also the problem)

Discretionary spending funds the Cabinet Departments and other government agencies. The spending sequesters in the Budget Control Act of 2011 essentially freeze non-defense discretionary spending in current dollar terms for the 2013-2022 period, limiting growth to approximately 1.5% per year (about the rate of inflation) versus approximately 6% over the past decade.

CBO reported that the primary long-term deficit and debt risk is driven by healthcare costs. For example, CBO projects that Social Security spending will rise from 5.0% GDP in 2012 to 5.4% GDP in 2022 and 6.2% GDP in 2037 and stabilize around that level. However, CBO projects that combined Medicare and Medicaid spending will rise from 5.4% GDP in 2012 to 7.5% GDP by 2022 and 10.4% GDP by 2037 and continue rising thereafter
 
I'm...obfuscating...by saying that $1.5T in debt/year is a crap-load of money.

I'm sorry that I'm apparently not smart enough to play your 11-dimensional chess game where it's not a lot of money and we can continue spending and spending and taxing our way through life with no consequences. I'm sorry I can't provide the pretty charts and graphs that I apparently have to present to give my thoughts any cred in your eyes.

You've beaten me.

I'd concede, but I already did farther up - give the socialists/progressives/democrats/communist/whoever the hell they are this week everything they want.
 
+Brian Johnson This has been fun I am not trying to be smart or dismissive of what you are saying I am just saying you have dig deeper into the numbers to get a better view. Again I said earlier Obama is not the boogie man he is just doing what other Presidents have been doing for 35 years spending without looking at the consequences of it
 
So, who's really 'willing' to cut on spending?
 
heh, wow +Крыстафер Гомес you're a piece of work. I merely stated I had a degree in Math in response to your asshole "go learn mathematics" remark. I don't recall saying anything more on the subject. I didn't realize that would be such a hang up for you.

The only point I was making was "I know mathematics just fine, thanks". I'm sorry you interpreted it to mean "I'm $DIETY's gift to the math and sciences" and hence continue to hammer on it.
 
+Tim Taylor smartest man on the Internet doesn't have time for us stupid conservatives anymore....
 
I mean, we've gone back and forth pretty decently on the role of Government in our lives and while there has been comments dripping with condescension, I haven't sense anger...

but mention God....
 
If we don't get spending cuts now we never will. I would not believe Obama under any circumstances!!!!
 
+Tim Taylor would you say it's inside stuff? :)

+Крыстафер Гомес as to your question, I'm limited government, not anti-government. And I believe that people should be responsible for themselves and not ruled over by an all encompassing government. There is obviously a place for rules and laws, but I oppose rules and laws that take empowerment from the citizens. 

I'm pretty much a "live and let live" person. I have a set of morality that I live by but don't expect the government to "legislate" that morality. 

Make of it what you will.
 
+Tim Taylor oh, no, that wasn't at you, that was at the assertion that I'm an unselfaware authoritarian :)
 
It's like we're in a giant D&D game, +Tim Taylor ! You're apparently good-chaotic and I'm a good-lawful....

you might have more fun than me :(
 
+Spencer Scott  that "60%" you mention includes military and government pensions, retired military healthcare and benefits, disabled veteran healthcare and benefits, surviving military family benefits and paid-in-funded benefit programs.

Can you get your other foot in your mouth too ?
 
+Крыстафер Гомес explain or not, either way. It's obvious you want us to be in awe of how incredibly smart you are and you want us to care what it means.

I think we're ridiculing you for the sake of ridiculing you. 
 
+Patricia Holloway Greece is a good example of what happens when a small country falls into the trap the USA banking industry was allowed through lack of regulation and oversight to set for the world economy.  and with their overhead and debt, they have not been able to recover.....

A lot of people either do not know, or fail to acknowledge that the financial situation in Europe was kicked off in 2008 when the market in the USA collapsed....  It's easier for some to blame "socialism"
 
Greece is not the only one on fire financially, or that has been bailed out, or in fear of faltering. Canada went through what we are going through now, even with socialized medicine, they however cut taxes, and cut spending, and have turned around their economy. They warned us two years ago not to keep going down this road, instead of turning around, we went into high gear. Canada has not said anything to my knowledge about getting rid of socialized medicine, but we receive a lot of there people for medical care that they cannot get in their own country. Other nations in the past  that decided socialized medicine was bankrupting them, or making things much worse, turned it around, but it took nearly 10 years, once it was up and full running. I know our housing bubble in 2008 started this mess with Big Banks selling mortgages with a A Rating, that probably had a F rating, to smaller banks. I know about the homes bought with escalating mortgages, or two mortgages at one time. The market was doing insane things to put people in homes in any way they could. The smaller banks were scammed, and the larger banks got bailed out, as to big to fail. They should have let them fail, and start all over, because they still are not doing the right thing, and I don't think they learned anything from the bailouts. The problem was we didn't just have a Housing Bubble, we had Multiple Bubbles bursting one right after the other. Some Investors had predicted it all, unfortunately I was not reading their reports at the time. I do believe the goal is World Banks, and that all of the smaller ones are going to be erased from the map with time. The Elites will be in charge of it all, when, not if we do eventually end up with a One World Order.
 
+Patricia Holloway   yes the US crisis rang the world economy like a bell, and it will be ringing for years to come... Canada did have issues, and was able to recover pretty rapidly, the fact that they spend about 1/70th on defense that the US does can't hurt :)  The US needs to cut their spending and defense is the biggest hitting item that is controllable.

and yes, my crystal ball was broken too, or else you may all be talking on my network instead of Google's lol
 
+Graden Guynn  sure there are abuses, but it is a small percentage, most are elderly, children and the disabled. You may want to revisit the dissection of Romney's 47% belly flop, it breaks it down pretty well...

I never said there was not waste/abuses in social programs, I said  Defense is something that can definitely be trimmed, which is a true statement.
 
Kpblcta()ep Tomec+ Best I could do. I am old enough that I have studied Social Psychology, I am also old enough to have studied the Secret Societies, and the Plans for One World Order. This plan is for the Elitist, and has gone on for centuries. They do not plan on everyone having access to the same things, they plan on their one true bloodline eventually ruling the world. National Banks to meet their needs and demands. We have over 6 1/2 billion on the planet now, they plan on ending up with 500 Million, since the resources will eventually run out sooner than later with the numbers we have today. Why do you think abortions, child limiting, birth control, and population control is so important to the Big Governments of the World. The United Nations and the E.U. are there to have people think they are helping with world disorder, and genocide, when actually they have totally different long range Goals. Actually that's why China is selling Guns to Sudan for oil. China gets it's fuel, and Sudan gets more genocide. Rebels are constantly armed by Big Nations, thus more death. I think you need to review just what is in store for those people living at the time of the New World Order. George Soros is 82, Multi-Billioniare with his hands in every corrupt Group in the world. He takes credit for personally destroying Four Nations Currency, and is personally working on America's now. He said the only thing standing between The One World Order beginning now, is America. They have to get rid of Freedom of Speech, The right to bear Arms, and Freedom of Religion before that can happen.This gentleman visited the White House almost everyday in Obama's first term.
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