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Some things just need to be said. Any flat income tax needs the #IRS  to monitor you. But the ‪ #FairTax  legislation defunds and disbands the IRS because the states collect and enforce the FairTax. Wouldn't you like to keep your paycheck instead of the IRS??!
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Dave E's profile photoJames Opal's profile photoLuis Rosales's profile photoMike Conley's profile photo
13 comments
 
Actually, the fair tax is anything but fair.  It taxes consumption but a fair tax would tax wealth.  Taxing consumption is incredibly regressive since the wealthy only spend a small part of their income whereas the poor spend more than their actual income through debt.
JR B
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Mike, the Fair Tax is more than fair!  It comes with built-in anti-regression!  It includes an actual cash rebate for those below the poverty level!
JR B
 
One of the greatest thing about the FairTax is that it removes the largest source of corruption and legislative gridlock in our country, the continual jockeying for tax favors and loopholes by the wealthiest and most influential corporations and special interests.  

In fact, it is highly unlikely to succeed.  Not that the Middle class and below don't want it!  We would love this legislation.  If it fails it will be because the largest corporations and lawyer groups (the wealthiest people) know how to manipulate the tax code and get by with actually paying less than if they were poor!

Do you think a $30 tax return at H&R Block gives a poor person a better return than an army of tax lawyers and lobbyists do for a large corporation like, i don't know, let's say Apple Inc?  Chevron? HP?  
How do you think the tax lawyers like either a fair or flat tax?  (Hint: they would love it like tabasco sauce on an open blister).  
JR B
 
Another thing to consider is what a great benefit the FairTax would have to our global competitiveness.
Without reducing wages, we would increase productivity by a considerable margin.  Think of all the lobbyists, tax lawyers,CPAs, and the IRS Army (100,000 + employees of the IRS) who would then be free to get productive, useful jobs instead of redistributing wealth (according to the tax code put in place by the wealthiest groups). 
These (lawyers, lobbyists, tax consultants) are very smart people... they should be using their talents and intelligence for the good of mankind.  Perhaps, like the reversal of the 90's when physicists and mathematicians went to work for Wall Street, they could use their intelligence in the sciences, math, and engineering!
 
Eliminating the corporate tax would also have a great impact on competitiveness.  If we shifted that tax burden onto high incomes (or more fairly, personal wealth) that would make us super-competitive.
 
So what is taxed?  If I'm poor and buy a car I'm taxed because that's consumption.  If I'm rich and buy a car company that's not taxed because that's an investment.
 
I'd favor a flat tax on wealth-- it spreads the pain of paying for government fairly.  Doing it by consumption just shifts it away from the wealthy.
 
+Mike Conley You need to do a little bit more research on the Fair Tax and compare it to our current system. With our current system we've created an government artificial industry which is Tax Preparation, tax preparation does nothing for the economy other than paying employees and earning a chunk.

They don't help anyone, they don't support anyone, they are a not financial advisors to help resolve debt, or manage money, all they are are companies looking for loopholes and profits. It's a terrible industry and a useless one, those finance majors/law majors would be better off investing in small businesses, starting their own, or finding another financial career path.

Also the Fair-tax is anything but regressive, that is the typical first thought of many individuals about consumption taxes; I myself would favor a fair tax than our current tax system, at least with the fair tax it is a voluntary system, and it provides certain rules to make it become progressive.
 
I'm not saying the current system is good.  I'm just saying the "Fair Tax" would be worse.  Manipulating a state government is far easier than the Federal government and you basically just have to find the most easy to manipulate our of a set of 50.  Shifting consumption into a corporate entity would basically avoid personal "fair taxes."  If I don't want to taxed and I'm wealthy, I can just buy things outside of the United States.  It is far too easy to manipulate consumption taxes.

The "Fair Tax" is basically a scam to get the poor and middle class to subsidize the wealthy.
 
Social Security is also not the same as a straight forward tax.  The money collected is basically enforced savings.  You save now and are paid back later (with an admittedly crappy rate of return).  Abolishing Social Security is an independent issue from the "Fair Tax".
 
Mike, before you make any more comments, take a couple hours and actually read the FairTax. It's only 136 pages double spaced.
Dave E
 
Mike,  myself being mildly informed about the fair tax and having re-read FAQs for a hour or so - I think most the points you're bringing up are - respectfully - because you're uninformed about fair tax details.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=FAQs

I think that you're positing that corporations get off free and the burden of taxation is shifted to the private citizen. I can see where you're coming from, but let's go into it a bit more.

- Current corporate tax burden is often redirected to us via cost of goods and services. We're being quite naive if we think corporations in the goodness of their hearts don't spare us cost due to their corporate taxes.

- Corporate tax burden is shifted to the worker in the form of lower wages. Or, they fire employees to curtail cost. Again I think we're being quite short sighted and narrow minded if we think corporations will spare their employees in this respect

- Once corporations have "nickel-and-dimed" us all they can (mind you to make a profit and compete), they'll cut on materials cost and process making products that suffer in quality.

- After this then products will be produced overseas at lower cost to them - revealing a higher cost to us - lost jobs.

Ultimately under the current taxation structure we pay via cost, salary, job opportunity and product quality. If we remove as many reasons as we can for corporations to pass cost on to us, free-market principles will do the rest and hopefully some sanity will work it's way into this mess.

To get into the weeds for a moment, If someone who's wealthy wants to buy overseas, they'll still incur a sales tax somewhere along the line. The plane ticket they buy to travel, in the shipping costs to get it to the continental US, if it's imported and sold then of course there will still be be a sales tax. If they want to go to all that trouble just to buy something and avoid a sales tax...shrugging shoulders I just have trouble buying the fact that it will be more cost effective for them to avoid it. I don't think we should be concerned about the one-offs and to me it's an extreme edge case. We already know that the wealthy are often more than willing to pay their fair share as we've heard numerous wealthy people assert: "raise my taxes, I'll happily pay more. I should be paying more." The fair tax is actually their opportunity to pay more - why not help them achieve it?

Many of us keep trying to make corporations out as being the bad guys. More often than not they pay our salaries, sell us our goods and services and provide us jobs - why would we not want to make their existence easy, cost effective and productive?? Instead many of us demonize them and keep purporting that they are the problem when in reality our government approved by our votes is the real source of difficulty and the genesis of a lot of these seemingly anti-middle class actions taken by corporations.

A rule of thumb I have, is that I will never expect the government to solve a problem that will render itself unnecessary.
 
VIVA FAIR TAX >>>VIVA FAIR TAX >>>VIVA FAIR TAX...BE SPIRITUAL ITS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD
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