Study Groups  - 
THIS is where all may VIEW and COMMENT about the next Mastering Genealogical Proof Study Group 2 session scheduled for Sunday. You can click the play button (forward arrow) below to see info about the start time.

Now that we've pulled information items for each document, cited the source of each, we now face the task of analysis: "what does the information item state or imply?" We must then correlate these findings with information items for in all sources to determine an answer to our research question.
Laura Cosgrove Lorenzana's profile photoJennifer Shoer's profile photoJune Butka's profile photoAnn Royal's profile photo
I will have to follow this later. I am helping a friend at a bridal show today. Have fun. I'll be checking in later to catch up. 
I'll be watching here for your comments on today's discussion about Chapter 5 of Mastering Genealogical Proof.
Sue - I just reposted a link in the same thread of messages
No source is 100% accurate. We are Human after all. We are Error prone by nature. 
Laura and Sue,
Did you copy and paste the link? It doesn't work to click on it.
 Some sources are credible for one bit of info, but not credible for another.
Did Sue get in? I know I can't click on the link. Copy & paste. Sorry, I don't understand why this is happening!
The closer to the original source and event is less chance to error. however, an example of original being wrong is my son's Baptismal record has the wrong date. The clergy dated it the day he wrote the record not the date he provided the service.
I keep losing the video fed in the community. need to refresh my computer
An author work is a compilation of several sources with the authors own conclusion from their analysis of those records.
Having trouble with freezing video as well.  Have to refresh the page.
I view trees on Ancestry, WikiTree, etc. as authored works.
I put citation for current family members but when I restarted my documentations I found errors. That is why citations of what you think you know is a MUST.
The info on my childrens' certified birth certificates is derivative. I filled out a long form when they were born, the hospital added the date and time of birth, and it was sent to the capitol for processing. When I received the forms, they were a VERY brief computer printout containing a transcript of a few of the bits of info I'd provided. Mine were accurate, but I have a friend who gave birth at the same time who had data entry errors on the form.
It's the you tube side I am freezing on. It hasn't happened in a bit though.
Ooops, now that I say that we are talking about the source, not the information. The birth computer printout is derivative., not the information.
I'm OK right now Russ. It may have been internet issues. Too many devices being used in the apartment. I may have to hide some for next weeks hangout.
It is important to ask yourself what the informant had to gain from miss leading the truth. I give more credence to an independent informant from the event instead of someone who might benefit.  A doctor  as the informant on a birth certificate is less prone to accuracy. However the doctor providing family relations on a death certificate may not be the more accurate source unless he was present at the birth. Ask yourself 3 questions to validate the source: Who is the informant, what could they gain and how or where did they get the information
Love this..."you are bigger than your [genealogy] software." -DearMyrt
That is such an important point. The software works for us; we don't work for the software.
I think the confusion in oral history comes from the relationship in the family. I am called Auntie June by all my nieces and nephews regardless if they are the children of my nieces/nephews. I'm not called Great Aunt June. I think that is how the generational lines blur. It gets even more confusing when there is five generations alive. 
My cousins all know me as Cyndi , but my brother is known as "Cyndi's brother".  Haven't figured out why they don't call him by name!
Exactly June. I always called my great-grandparents mom and dad due to everyone else calling them that. My children also call my mother "Mom" because that's all they heard her called when they were younger.
I have discovered that I need to be careful with that with my own children. My children hear me refer to "Grandma Severina," because that's what she was called when I was a kid. She was actually my great-grandmother. We refer to her often because I have inherited a lot of her stuff and I like to point where they came from, but I'm not careful to say, "She was your great-great-grandma."
You receive the Catholic baptism certificate in the mail.
Happy Mother's Day to all from the United kingdom.
on a prearranged funeral document, I had to pre-fill out the  the information of name, date/place  of birth, last employment, and marriage information.
Another original record available that is filled out by a primary source with secondary information is the application for burial into a Veteran's Cemetery. 
Another important point to be aware of is when you receive your photographs back or upload them, to write who is in the photo, where it was taken , by whom and the date of event before we forget the information. 
I would give it more credence, but still would want to verify the source documents. I would look for citation of sources
Thank you panelists. Well done.
Whether you use programs such as Evidentia or do your analysis using a word processing document you must clearly distinguish whether you are discussing the Source (container) or the Information contained within the source.
The source can only fall into 1 category although the form it takes may have a bearing on it's  reliability which must be discussed in the analysis. But the information contained within the source may be variable dependent upon which item you are looking at and the nature of the informant.
I like Evidentia because it was written with all the factors in mind and allows the user to go stepwise through the process of analysis in order to correlate all the information from the various sources and build a reasoned argument.
We will discuss correlation next week and it will help bring together some of the parts of the GPS already discussed and explain why all elements of the GPS are interdependent.
+Hilary Gadsby 

I totally agree with you about Evidentia. It asks the right questions at the right time, you can't go on until you have completed the current step.

I don't use it every day, but I do use it on those complicated individuals, where I need to stop, slow down, and follow the process before proceeding.

It's where Evidence Explained !!! and Mastering Genealogical Proof come together. It certainly works for me.

Thank you,

+Kerry Scott, my dad would get a kick out of being called GREAT Grampa Glen, because of the superlative, not as a generational designation. 😊 I too must remember to reference our heirlooms from my grandchildren's point of view. 

Another great Hangout On Air on a very difficult subject. I am glad that you recognize and hold us to task, to slow down as we have more to talk about with any given chapter. 

Its interesting how the two groups are different as we walk through the book again. Learning more each time as we go.

Thank you for hosting this and for the Panel for bringing this book to life.

+Jennifer Shoer 

I spent a little time with that spreadsheet and really like it. I did raise a question for me in the program I use, where you use the spreadsheet. But Thank you for that file. I'll have to play around with it a little more.

+Jennifer Shoer Thank you for sharing your spread sheets. I use my Microsoft word to gather and analyse my information. I'm still learning how to use spreadsheets. My main problem is keeping information in the boxes they belong in with any consistency. Mine spreadsheets look very disorganized. I will learn. I write it like I word long hand in word. I ask a question, answer it and then pick it apart. 
+Jennifer Shoer, thanks for sharing your spreadsheet; like +June Butka I use a text-base document. I've gotten in that habit because I use my Research Notes as the basis for my Research Reports (thanks going to ESM for that). But, I may try the spreadsheet since I tend to think in those terms. I also use Evidentia; I find that it can help unravel my more complex challenges faster and easier than my brain! 
+June Butka +Laura Cosgrove Lorenzana I also use word for my research notes. The spreadsheet is for picking apart (analyzing) the sources and information for complicated cases. Also, once in the spreadsheet, the date can be sorted in different ways to give different perspectives on the potential evidence. 

I still haven't investigated Evidentia, but it sounds interesting. 
Here is a quote from my 1999 Avon Breast Cancer Flyer, by Anita Baker, that I feel is relevant to our discussion of this chapter and the two upcoming chapters.

"I say if it's going to be done, let's do it. Let's not put it in the hands of fate. Let's not put it in the hands of someone who doesn't know me. I know me best. Then take a breath and go ahead." 

I add to that; "It is a whole new way to get in there and make a difference in less error prone citation."

She referred to walking 60 miles in 3 Days, but I had the same feelings when learning MGP. 

Just breath, do it and learn. I know I can. Do you know that you can?
+June Butka Love that, both as an MGP student and a survivor of Uterine Cancer
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