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Daniel Voisin
Lives in Waterloo, ON
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Daniel Voisin
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To me it's pretty obvious there is an atheist movement. With conventions and meetups happening all over the world it requires ignoring reality to argue there isn't.

But if there is a movement that also means the ideas being espoused by thought leaders in the movement need scrutinized and criticized as people will, be virtue of our nature, latch onto those ideas. Often from an emotional stand point instead of a rational one.

Because there is nothing politicians like more than co-opting movements to suit their own agendas. It wasn't so long ago the evangelical movement was an anti war, pro rights, love your neighbour bunch of hippies that slowly evolved into the right wing Christian movement we all know today. 
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I always assumed that it was just some ex-religious who were missing the community and togetherness that religion brought.
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Daniel Voisin
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I think this really gets to the heart of the problem:

Accepting a person’s professed intent as a pure manifestation of their will is so blatantly unscientific that it shouldn’t even require any further discussion. Does Harris suggest we take all of Adolf Hitler’s professed intentions at their face value? Since Harris accepts everything ISIS and Al Qaeda are saying about their intentions, we should logically do the same with Hitler and other figures as well. Hence: George W. Bush was a democracy sprinkler, Stalin was simply cleansing the state from a “fifth column of wreckers, terrorists and spies”, and the Interahamwe in Rwanda were simply doing sanitary work. And further down the rabbit hole of silliness we go.

I see this behavior come up during one of the most enjoyable Internet arguments possible: what religion was Hitler?

Regardless of what religion Hitler may have been, citing Mein Kampf as a good source to prove he was a Catholic isn't a valid argument. Because it requires doing exactly what we're being asked to do by Harris: focus on the professed intent in one case while ignoring it in others.

Showing this clearly with Hitler can be hard. He wasn't an exactly an intellectual. However his southern ally Mussolini it's much easier. He was a professed atheist for most of his life, he wrote about atheism frequently, but became a Roman Catholic when assuming power because he wasn't a fool. We've known about the critical importance of professed piety since at least the Romans. As Seneca the younger said:

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful" 

What I wonder is if perhaps the quote also encapsulates the problem itself. The common people regard religion as true because they trust the professed intent of the speaker fully. They don't think critically about it because what's being said is exactly what they want to hear: the suffering of this world has a cause and a purpose.

It let's them feel like innocent victims even when they are the aggressors.
 
Addi Svarogic looks at the recent heated email exchange occurred between Noam Chomsky and Sam Harris. He writes, "The irony of New Atheists ignoring the material world and solely focusing on profes...
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Alex Quirk's profile photoMichael French's profile photoAndreas Geisler's profile photo
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+Michael French Nah. We'll just stab them in the back, and send their cut-off heads to their allies.
Nobody messes with the Atheist Illuminati.
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I think this really gets to the heart of the problem:

Accepting a person’s professed intent as a pure manifestation of their will is so blatantly unscientific that it shouldn’t even require any further discussion. Does Harris suggest we take all of Adolf Hitler’s professed intentions at their face value? Since Harris accepts everything ISIS and Al Qaeda are saying about their intentions, we should logically do the same with Hitler and other figures as well. Hence: George W. Bush was a democracy sprinkler, Stalin was simply cleansing the state from a “fifth column of wreckers, terrorists and spies”, and the Interahamwe in Rwanda were simply doing sanitary work. And further down the rabbit hole of silliness we go.

I see this behavior come up during one of the most enjoyable Internet arguments possible: what religion was Hitler?

Regardless of what religion Hitler may have been, citing Mein Kampf as a good source to prove he was a Catholic isn't a valid argument. Because it requires doing exactly what we're being asked to do by Harris: focus on the professed intent in one case while ignoring it in others.

Showing this clearly with Hitler can be hard. He wasn't an exactly an intellectual. However his southern ally Mussolini it's much easier. He was a professed atheist for most of his life, he wrote about atheism frequently, but became a Roman Catholic when assuming power because he wasn't a fool. We've known about the critical importance of professed piety since at least the Romans. As Seneca the younger said:

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful" 

What I wonder is if perhaps the quote also encapsulates the problem itself. The common people regard religion as true because they trust the professed intent of the speaker fully. They don't think critically about it because what's being said is exactly what they want to hear: the suffering of this world has a cause and a purpose.

It let's them feel like innocent victims even when they are the aggressors.

 
Addi Svarogic looks at the recent heated email exchange occurred between Noam Chomsky and Sam Harris. He writes, "The irony of New Atheists ignoring the material world and solely focusing on profes...
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deborah rabbit white's profile photoMr Kurtz's profile photoDaniel Voisin's profile photo
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Daniel - Great points, and the quote by Seneca in many way describes what is going on in the world today. Not only in the middle east but also in the western hemisphere. Theological concerns serve as a cover for some completely different goals. And let's please not forget that Isis was created by secular bathists. No one denies the possibility of many Isis fighters being very religious indeed, but even if that were true, Isis itself is is a direct extension of the Iraqi resistance. These new professed dreams of a global caliphate are irrelevant and are probably just a PR trick to extract funding from wealthy saudi wáhabbis. 
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Yep, trickling hasn't worked. Trickling will never work.
Ty +Katie H.​
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+Brad Dunagan So you don't believe that America takes a step every day towards becoming a ''Socialized '' country every year, and the Republicans can finally realize their dream come true, with only two classes, them, and the people who have nothing.
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The importance of punctuation.

I think there should be a question mark after "bankrupt."
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The fanatical leaders are morally bankrupting the worlds religion and the community's.Name me one religious leader that knows what's better for its followers and that leader has self interests that isn't good for any of us.
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Limited-time $30 deal: subscription to CanGeo AND @walrusmagazine (16 issues + 4 bonus issues) http://canadiangeographic.ca/walrus
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Daniel Voisin

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To me it's pretty obvious there is an atheist movement. With conventions and meetups happening all over the world it requires ignoring reality to argue there isn't.

But if there is a movement that also means the ideas being espoused by thought leaders in the movement need scrutinized and criticized as people will, be virtue of our nature, latch onto those ideas. Often from an emotional stand point instead of a rational one.

Because there is nothing politicians like more than co-opting movements to suit their own agendas. It wasn't so long ago the evangelical movement was an anti war, pro rights, love your neighbour bunch of hippies that slowly evolved into the right wing Christian movement we all know today. 
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b.e. hydomako's profile photoRick Heil's profile photoDaniel Voisin's profile photo
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fair enough, but not enough to motivate me to 'support atheism' any more than to support any other negative movement.

I tend to disagree that effective movements are against instead of for. Indeed being against bad cops is a starter notion (current events topic) but not enough to be sustaining... it needs to morph into something positive, like establishing effective community based civil order including cops, and other institutions including families. Until it becomes 'for' something its just a statement of what you don't want. Not saying it can't happen, but as I said 'Generally' it seems more effective - for me anyway.

Indeed any movements to help enlighten people from the fantasy and fairy tales of religion are good... I have no issue with it. Just not enough to get me (and I suspect many others) motivated to do much.
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Daniel Voisin

Problems of Belief Systems  - 
 
I think this really gets to the heart of the problem:

Accepting a person’s professed intent as a pure manifestation of their will is so blatantly unscientific that it shouldn’t even require any further discussion. Does Harris suggest we take all of Adolf Hitler’s professed intentions at their face value? Since Harris accepts everything ISIS and Al Qaeda are saying about their intentions, we should logically do the same with Hitler and other figures as well. Hence: George W. Bush was a democracy sprinkler, Stalin was simply cleansing the state from a “fifth column of wreckers, terrorists and spies”, and the Interahamwe in Rwanda were simply doing sanitary work. And further down the rabbit hole of silliness we go.

I see this behavior come up during one of the most enjoyable Internet arguments possible: what religion was Hitler?

Regardless of what religion Hitler may have been, citing Mein Kampf as a good source to prove he was a Catholic isn't a valid argument. Because it requires doing exactly what we're being asked to do by Harris: focus on the professed intent in one case while ignoring it in others.

Showing this clearly with Hitler can be hard. He wasn't an exactly an intellectual. However his southern ally Mussolini it's much easier. He was a professed atheist for most of his life, he wrote about atheism frequently, but became a Roman Catholic when assuming power because he wasn't a fool. We've known about the critical importance of professed piety since at least the Romans. As Seneca the younger said:

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful" 

What I wonder is if perhaps the quote also encapsulates the problem itself. The common people regard religion as true because they trust the professed intent of the speaker fully. They don't think critically about it because what's being said is exactly what they want to hear: the suffering of this world has a cause and a purpose.

It let's them feel like innocent victims even when they are the aggressors.
 
Addi Svarogic looks at the recent heated email exchange occurred between Noam Chomsky and Sam Harris. He writes, "The irony of New Atheists ignoring the material world and solely focusing on profes...
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Thomas Stanalonis's profile photoEric Piteau's profile photoGeorge LeBlanc's profile photoSUM OF ALL FEARS's profile photo
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I have studied the Nazi regime for many years and I am always fascinated by the things I learn about their general thinking. For one thing, Hitler and many of his cadre of elites held to a Darwinian world view.  To the Germans, war was a positive force because it eliminated the weaker races.  It also culled those weaker members of the  superior race.  If you really take the the time to  study how they thought you will have no problem understanding why they did what they did, as well as their relationship to the rest of the world.  To Hitler, the Christian church was a temporary means to an end.
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Daniel Voisin
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» Discussion  - 
 
My question here is should atheism address myths without God being directly involved? Is the principle behind atheism that myths without evidence should be rejected or is it more specifically just myths that involve a deity?
 
Yep, trickling hasn't worked. Trickling will never work.
Ty +Katie H.​
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Steve Hartzog's profile photoDavid C Cardillo's profile photoJae Jones's profile photoZachary Hardy's profile photo
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+Daniel Voisin Not just old people who fall through the cracks as you say. There's other things, like universal health care for instance. I'm not an American. I live in Denmark. Our taxes are higher, but gdp per capita is the same, or higher than in the States. Norway, which has the same system has significantly higher gdp per capita. 
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The GOP is a Koch organized and funded operation. The Kochs set the agenda, and if Republicans take back the Senate, the American people will have given control of the Congress to the Koch brothers.
In a leaked audio tape of the Koch brothers top secret June 2014 retreat, Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) not only admitted that the Republicans would be lost without the Kochs, and revealed who the real power is in the GOP.
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All that supposed brain power spent in the fight against marginalized young earth creationists with room temperature IQs, when there is a real 'prime-mover' dogma to be battled.

Shooting fish in a barrel, like promoting (ideals that promote) wars that someone else will fight for you, might be ego building, but it's hardly praise worthy.
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Daniel Voisin's profile photoJan Bruun Andersen's profile photoAndreas Geisler's profile photoDavid Landry's profile photo
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+Jan Bruun Andersen that's not the libertarian view, that is the American perversion of libertarianism.

Classical libertarianism just asks institutions to continually justify themselves.
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Nice tool. No homo
149 stone flakes, hammers and anvils, found off at the Lomekwi 3 site on the shores of Lake Turkana, appears to have been crafted more than 3.3 million years ago — 500,000 years before our genus Ho...
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I am an all around geek, raising two little geeklings, and loving all that life has given me. I love reading, writing, and thinking about everything from tech to religion.

Doing NaNoWriMo again this year. Hopefully Google+ will give me the push to finish this year! 
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