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And the war/scapegoating of mental illness begins. Let's not mention the fact all laws putting people classified as "mentally ill" onto a list will do is prevent people from getting help and getting support to begin with.

Sigh.
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Jason Wyatt's profile photoChristina Warren's profile photoMichael Koby's profile photoGarritt VS's profile photo
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I am sorry you feel they will not get help or support but there need be a three prong approach to this:

1. Identify the individuals
2. Help the individuals
3. Prevent the individuals from causing harm without harming them
 
There is no reliable way to identify the individuals, to point out the obvious, and there won't be for a long time, if ever.
 
We already have millions identified.
 
+Ted Slater well I bet money that what the legislation that's sure to be proposed will come up with is an exemption to HIPPA to have some sort of list of people diagnosed with some class of disorders and for that to be like a no-fly list for guns and weapons.

Nevermind the fact that all it will do is prevent sick people from going to a doctor.

I suffer from major depression and anxiety disorder. If I didn't get insurance through my company, I would be uninsurable (at least until the Affordable Care Act provisions go into place) because I take anti-depressants. Yes. Uninsurable except catastrophic. As +Kevin Marlin said, millions are identified.

I don't think the solution is to start creating lists of people we don't let buy guns or weapons. We should instead be talking about assessing purchasing patterns regardless of your mental identification and looking at getting people actual, real, treatment.

Edit: changed enacted to proposed because I didn't mean enacted, I meant proposed.
 
But you can't reliably tell which ones on the list will cause a problem with a gun, and you can't tell which people should be on the list who aren't already.
 
Without proper treatment funding, no probably not.   But that isn't the fault of the lists.   That is the fault of our horrible mental healthcare system. 
 
It doesn't have as much to do with funding as it has to do with science. We just don't know enough about mental illness yet to be able to make calls like that. We may never be able to do that.

That being said, we bloody well better start investing more in the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness. That's long overdue.
 
It has everything to do with the failure of the mental health system and its lack of funding. As medicaid is cut (ex: Louisiana), those unable to pay for board in a private mental health facility will not be given one of the very few available public beds. They are then sent to jail if they have done something criminal while psychotic, turned away or released far too soon. In some cases they are released after giving them drugs (without adequate time to evaluate the effects of those drugs in a safe environment). Drugs can work wonders or cause more psychosis  Unbalanced people on un-monitored drug regimes are more dangerous then those monitored to insure the drugs will do the job and the patient will continue with the drugs as prescribed with regular drug effectiveness evaluations. For more info see www.nami.org the National Alliance On Mental Illness.
 
@Horrible system:
We can send Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan... money to defend themselves and billions upon billions patrolling and securing the world with borrowed money but we can not properly defend our schools.

Companies give billions in bonuses every year but they can not secure the malls they have stores in or or malls they own.

Hollywood makes billions in profit promoting violence and they can not properly secure movie theaters that make them money.

We can send billions in health care aid around the world while we close mental health facilities in the US.

We can help subsidize medication in third world countries while mentally ill people in the US go untreated because they can't get the meds.

Adding to this we must look at the criminal element that constantly repeats its crimes. Our prison system does no work.
 
+Christina Warren That's not all it will do.
It will increase the number of people referred by law enforcement for psychiatric evaluation and probably increase the number of people being diagnosed with "low level" mental illness (similar to how schools sent children to "tame" psychologists for diagnosis with ADD/ADHD to get them prescribed drugs to calm them down - used for classroom control by some disreputable or lazy people).

There will probably be a huge up-tick in "pschyzotypal" (I think that was the right word) and other diagnoses that will allow law enforcement to bar that person from EVER owning a firearm.  It's a lovely bit of leverage against the citizens that is being offered to law enforcement.
 
+Garritt VS exactly. And that's what scares me. I'm in favor of gun control. I think we need less guns, not more, but putting that aside, the idea that we can somehow prevent madness by having people on lists based on diagnosis does nothing more than raise the stigma associated with mental illness. Ju

People are already not getting treated for depression, anxiety, ADD, OCD, etc, not just because of the cost of medication and the increase in health insurance (seriously, I'm a white, non-smoking female who weighs 105 lbs, perfect picture of health -- if I was trying to get health insurance as someone self-employed, it'd be impossible. Hopefully that changes this year. We'll see) but the societal stigma that still prevents people from seeking treatment.

It's beyond fucked up and I just KNOW we're going to see attempts to pass legislation to siphon off people into groups rather than treating the real problems.
 
So instead just let them buy any gun, and not have any list, and aww heck lets just leave them to take care of themselves like we have been, because that is working oh so well. 

Again the list isn't the problem.  Our healthcare system, or lack there of is the problem.

I agree there needs to be fewer guns and more gun control. That should be the main solution for gun violence.

But that doesn't change the fact that our mental health system is horrible, and that many of these cases could be adverted if people were getting proper monitored care.  

Giving someone a prescription then not seeing them for a month or several months without seeing how it affects them is ridiculous.  But then the fact we have no universal healthcare and skyrocketing medical costs compared to the rest of the developed world doesn't help either. 
 
+Kent Goertzen There you go - you've got it.  In my frustration immediately after the Newtown shooting I railed at gun advocates, online "you want your guns?  An effective national mental health program available for all is the cost you must pay."  By extension, good health care in general - who knows how many persons start out physically unwell and go on to psychologically unwell.
 
+Gregg Taylor And there you go! Get the ACLU and the courts (who are not medical professionals) out of the business of mental health and get the government to actually do its constitutional duty and "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States"

Well these assholes (all of them) in DC can provide help in other countries but not here?

We need a nutcase to go into the State of the Union and scare the shit out of them! Bastards need to get their priorities strait.
 
Aren't there two stigmas around mental illness?   1) I'm ashamed, etc.  2) I'm afraid the State will suppress or control me... maybe not so paranoid in some nations?   At any rate, an unstable person can find many ways - witness the guy in Oregon who tried to choke  his girlfriend using his dredlocks!
 
As long as healthcare is rationed, and prisons are not, we as a civilization will falter with this problem.  Sounds nice but it's pathetic, sorry.
 
+Gregg Taylor One of my sons is Autistic and I know what he is capable of. Doing what that kid did in Conn? Hell no but he would be a statistic at this time if he got a weapon. Not for going on a rampage or anything like that but because he would inadvertently hurt/kill himself or someone else. 
 
+Kevin Marlin That's a very hard circumstance for your family, but imagine how much worse if you didn't know.  Isn't that the root of where we are going with this? 
 
+Gregg Taylor mental health care isn't the only solution.  There are plenty of these incidents that the person wasn't exactly unstable in the general sense. 

It has to be more than just the treatment, but the guns also. 

And btw the choke with dreadlocks argument is a ridiculous argument for being against gun control.  That does not refute the fact gun control does work and would reduce gun violence. No one is saying it will stop all violence.  That isn't a reason not to try to stop some violence.

And these particular guns do make killing far, far easier. That cannot be refuted. 
 
+Kent Goertzen Sure less guns will reduce gun violence. But's that's all it will reduce. Contrary to what you've probably been told, you're more likely to be killed by a car, drugs, or be poisoned than you are to be killed with a gun in the United States.

I highly recommend you read through this article (http://pjmedia.com/blog/gun-control-fails-say-statistics-from-gun-control-advocates/?singlepage=true) and look at the data and graphs, much of it from the United Nations, You might be surprised to find out that as more guns have been purchased crime rates have reduced. You might also be surprised to find out that other areas with gun control have more violent crime per capita than the United States (don't believe me? look at the data and the links provided by the website).

Sure reducing guns reduces gun violence, but gun violence makes up only a percentage of all violent acts committed. And data shows that getting rid of guns increases other kinds of violent crime.

Also, you can read this Harvard study that proved that banning guns would not reduce murder and suicide. (http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf)
 
+Kent Goertzen Any determined person makes killing easier. 2 pistols make killing a breeze. Making children used to the violence by psychology imprinting murder wit entertainment makes killing a breeze...
 
+Kent Goertzen Re: choke w/dredlocks - I'm not arguing for gun ban, I'm just saying that "take away all guns and mental instability will still kill".  Rational regulation of  guns goes side by side with the mental health issue.  Criminals intent on murder are treated differently in our criminal justice system than incompetents.   It does suck when you see a Washington State law enforcement officer leave a loaded gun in the van with his kids, one gets ahold of it and kills sibling.  And the guy gets off in court. <http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Prosecutor-drops-charge-against-Derek-Carlile-in-daughters-shooting-death-181214561.html>
Others may fault my comment for it's weakness: "heat of the moment" killings.
 
How about we hold the Judges, Lawyers, parole boards and psychiatric people liable? Screw the ACLU!
 
+Michael Koby So your argument is it won't stop all violence or deaths we should do nothing?   Seriously?  
 
+Kevin Marlin the entertainment argument is complete and utter BS.

Canada has access to exactly every type of media we have here.  They don't have the problems we do.

Same with most countries in Europe.  They have access to the games and programs we do yet do not have the violence.

The whole violent games and media argument made by the NRA and other groups is a complete and utter false scapegoat and you are falling for it.
 
+Kevin Marlin Screw the ACLU?  An organization dedicated to upholding our constitutional rights.   facepalm

And again you argument is the same as Michael's, just because some and other types will still occur does not mean we should not do something about this kind.

It is a completely ridiculous argument.
 
+Gregg Taylor _"I'm not arguing for gun ban, I'm just saying that "take away all guns and mental instability will still kill"_

And I'm saying unless the guns are taken also, we will still have a problem.  It isn't just people with mental problems killing.

But taking the guns will reduce gun violence.  That is a fact that cannot be denied.  Every developed country that has strict gun laws like Germany or gun bans, has a tremendously lower gun crime rate.  That is a fact. 

In the US states with tighter laws have lowered gun crime more than those with loser laws. Both have reduced crime, but those with tighter laws have reduced it more. 
 
+Kent Goertzen No. I never said that. I simply provided actual data with links that contained even more links to disprove the idea that tighter gun control equates with a reduction in crime. And based on your posts to others, I can tell you didn't even bother to look at the links I provided. Who cares about facts when we can make all important decisions based on feelings, right?

You said getting rid of guns will solve some of the problem. It won't. There's is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Sure it'll stop gun violence, but at the cost of a rise in other kinds of violence. Are you suggesting that more rape and assaults are okay, as long as we don't have guns? Gun violence is only part of the picture. There are other forms of violence that aren't gun violence, and every pro gun control person seems to want to ignore that when they talk about this issue. 

And your argument that states with tighter gun control have less crime is bogus there is absolutely ZERO data to support that. I'll give you Chicago and Washington D.C. as two primary examples. Both cities have the tightest gun control laws, yet they're crime rates are more than many states that have looser gun laws. Chicago itself had 500 homicides in 2012, so explain to me how tighter gun laws mean less crime?

Another interesting fact that's verifiable via FBI statistics? As gun purchases have gun up over the last decade, the overall crime rate in the United States has dropped. If more guns equated to more crime, we'd be seeing a rise in crime as gun sales go up, the actual data however, shows otherwise.

It's okay to not like guns. I have friends that don't like them. But please. Do some reading first. And do it from sources that aren't Mayors Against Guns, Brady Campaign, NRA, etc. Look at the United Nations data, look at the FBI statistics CDC even has data that will actually disprove a large number of anti-gun people. You'll find that the data doesn't match your narrative all that well.
 
+Kent Goertzen BTW, I know you didn't read the links, because everything you said about gun control is disproved in the links I provided.

And if you don't believe the guy writing the article he links to the source of the data he provides so you can verify it yourself.

But, I'm probably talking to a brick wall. Who cares about actual data when you can just use the same Brady Campaign talking points, right?
 
+Michael Koby Got to disagree with one big thing: Sure it'll stop gun violence, but at the cost of a rise in other kinds of violence.

Do you actually think the gang banger are giving up anything?
 
+Kevin Marlin No, I don't. Gun control laws only stop the law abiding from getting guns. However, pretty much all the guns used in recent mass murders were obtained legally. Not to mention that other countries that have enacted strict gun control have seen reductions in gun violence, just at the cost of other things. Because "gun violence" is only part of the picture. Guns are an easy target (pun kind of intended), so people tend to think that banning them will solve all the problems.

So while I'm against gun control in general, I'm not against having an actual discussion about it. Having discussions about improving processes, as long as it's a healthy discussion is something I'm pretty much always open to.

But if people aren't going to bring facts to said discussion, it'll be a pretty pointless discussion.
 


And yes you did say that.  That is what citing this, "Contrary to what you've probably been told, you're more likely to be killed by a car, drugs, or be poisoned than you are to be killed with a gun in the United States."  means.  The only reason to point to that is to use that for that sort of argument.   If that isn't what you meant, you should have said something else. 

As far as the links, plenty of them out there that contradict those.   Biased studies from pro-gun advocates.  Hardly good evidence. 

And the Harvard study is ridiculous.  The many developed nations that have banned guns and have reduced it have proven it to be wrong.  So you would cite a study based on faulty data and premise, instead of looking at reality. facepalm

Again the facts in reality, not studies, show otherwise. 

+Kevin Marlin  only occurring in 1 developed country, the UK, out of all the others that it isn't happening.  You don't have a valid argument there.
 
+Kevin Marlin which legislation.   You can't make a statement like that without being specific. 
 
+Kent Goertzen Again, read the links. Because hey you might actually find that the first one was written by a gun control advocate. shock gasp Say it ain't so.

And I am looking at reality. United Nations, FBI, CDC. The actual data and numbers, not talking points. You can't really get more unbiased than those sources. You can argue you're living in "reality" and I'm somehow ignoring facts but by ignoring cold hard numbers, you prove otherwise.
 
+Michael Koby "Gun control laws only stop the law abiding from getting guns."

Contrary to reality proven in many other developed countries.

There is not one case of a developed country increasing access to guns and gun crime going down.  Even Switzerland has dropped that line of thinking.

But there are many cases of them going down. 

And again, just because there is other violence still occurring is not a valid argument against gun bans.  

Death from accidents and disease are not valid arguments against gun bans.

By that messed up logic we might as well do away with any laws.  Because people still break them.  It is completely ridiculous and not a part of any intelligent reasoning. 
 
+Kent Goertzen Funny because:
http://www.datamasher.org/mash-ups/crime-vs-gun-ownership#table-tab and 
Here are some other facts. The United States has the highest rate of gun ownership in the world — by far. And it has the highest rate of homicides among advanced countries. And yet, gun crime has been declining in the U.S. Firearm murders are down, as is overall gun violence –  even as gun ownership increases. Read our Analysis for more insight on what these statistics mean.
http://factcheck.org/2012/12/gun-rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/

Chew on that
 
Wiki? Get real. You can in no way counter my post and here is a tidbit for you:

If crime rates go down in the US with more guns (proven fact) and you remove the guns from the hands of law abiding citizens the criminals have nothing to fear.
 
+Kevin Marlin It is a good thing they fought that law..  It went too far.    My point stands, you are angry at the ACLU for doing the right thing and protecting our rights. 
 
+Michael Koby " the first one was written by a gun control advocate"

That is a myth promoted by gun advocates.  The claim it was done by a control advocate is by pro-gun groups not the author.   That you pass on that lie is telling. 

And again is contrary to what is actually happening.  Again you want to cite a study and ignore what is really happening. 

You believe everything the NRA feeds you don't you? 

The right to carry decline is small, so small it can be attributed to statistical error.  But love how gun advocates love to cite that one.  And the decline fails in the long term look at it.  So they are manipulating the data by selecting the shortest time periods to make it fit their agenda.
 
+Kent Goertzen What Drug Date Where Additional 
School Shooting Prozac WITHDRAWAL 2008-02-15 Illinois ** 6 Dead: 15 Wounded: Perpetrator Was in Withdrawal from Med & Acting Erratically 
School Shooting Prozac Antidepressant 2005-03-24 Minnesota **10 Dead: 7 Wounded: Dosage Increased One Week before Rampage 
School Shooting Paxil [Seroxat] Antidepressant 2001-03-10 Pennsylvania **14 Year Old GIRL Shoots & Wounds Classmate at Catholic School 
School Shooting Zoloft Antidepressant & ADHD Med 2011-07-11 Alabama **14 Year Old Kills Fellow Middle School Student 
School Shooting Zoloft Antidepressant 1995-10-12 South Carolina **15 Year Old Shoots Two Teachers, Killing One: Then Kills Himself 
School Shooting Med For Depression 2009-03-13 Germany **16 Dead Including Shooter: Antidepressant Use: Shooter in Treatment For Depression 
School Hostage Situation Med For Depression 2010-12-15 France **17 Year Old with Sword Holds 20 Children & Teacher Hostage 
School Shooting Plot Med For Depression WITHDRAWAL 2008-08-28 Texas **18 Year Old Plots a Columbine School Attack 
School Shooting Anafranil Antidepressant 1988-05-20 Illinois **29 Year Old WOMAN Kills One Child: Wounds Five: Kills Self 
School Shooting Luvox/Zoloft Antidepressants 1999-04-20 Colorado **COLUMBINE: 15 Dead: 24 Wounded 
School Stabbings Antidepressants 2001-06-09 Japan **Eight Dead: 15 Wounded: Assailant Had Taken 10 Times his Normal Dose of Depression Med 
School Shooting Prozac Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL 1998-05-21 Oregon **Four Dead: Twenty Injured 
School Stabbing Med For Depression 2011-10-25 Washington **Girl, 15, Stabs Two Girls in School Restroom: 1 Is In Critical Condition 
School Shooting Antidepressant 2006-09-30 Colorado **Man Assaults Girls: Kills One & Self 
School Machete Attack Med for Depression 2001-09-26 Pennsylvania **Man Attacks 11 Children & 3 Teachers at Elementary School 
School Shooting Related Luvox 1993-07-23 Florida **Man Commits Murder During Clinical Trial for Luvox: Same Drug as in COLUMBINE: Never Reported 
School Hostage Situation Cymbalta Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL 2009-11-09 New York **Man With Gun Inside School Holds Principal Hostage 
School Shooting Antidepressants 1992-09-20 Texas **Man, Angry Over Daughter's Report Card, Shoots 14 Rounds inside Elementary School 
School Shooting SSRI 2010-02-19 Finland **On Sept. 23, 2008 a Finnish Student Shot & Killed 9 Students Before Killing Himself 
School Shooting Threat Med for Depression* 2004-10-19 New Jersey **Over-Medicated Teen Brings Loaded Handguns to School 
School Shooting Antidepressant? 2007-04-18 Virginia **Possible SSRI Use: 33 Dead at Virginia Tech 
School Shooting Antidepressant? 2002-01-17 Virginia **Possible SSRI Withdrawal Mania: 3 Dead at Law School 
School Incident/Bizarre Zoloft* 2010-08-22 Australia **School Counselor Exhibits Bizarre Behavior: Became Manic On Zoloft 
School/Assault Antidepressant 2009-11-04 California **School Custodian Assaults Student & Principal: Had Manic Reaction From Depression Med 
School Shooting Prozac Antidepressant 1992-01-30 Michigan **School Teacher Shoots & Kills His Superintendent at School 
School Shooting Threats Celexa Antidepressant 2010-01-25 Virginia **Senior in High School Theatens to Kill 4 Classmates: Facebook Involved: Bail Denied 
School Violence/Murder Antidepressants* 1998-05-04 New York **Sheriff's Deputy Shoots his Wife in an Elementary School 
School Knifing/Murder Meds For Depression & ADHD 2010-04-28 Massachusetts **Sixteen Year Old Kills 15 Year Old in High School Bathroom in Sept. 2009 
School Stabbing Wellbutrin 2006-12-04 Indiana **Stabbing by 17 Year Old At High School: Charged with Attempted Murder 
School Threat Antidepressants 2007-04-23 Mississippi **Student Arrested for Making School Threat Over Internet 
School Suspension Lexapro Antidepressant 2007-07-28 Arkansas **Student Has 11 Incidents with Police During his 16 Months on Lexapro 
School Shooting Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL 2007-11-07 Finland **Student Kills 8: Wounds 10: Kills Self: High School in Finland 
School Shooting Paxil [Seroxat] Antidepressant 2004-02-09 New York **Student Shoots Teacher in Leg at School 
School Threat Prozac Antidepressant 2008-01-25 Washington **Student Takes Loaded Shotgun & 3 Rifles to School Parking Lot: Plans Suicide 
School Shooting Plot Med For Depression 1998-12-01 Wisconsin **Teen Accused of Plotting to Gun Down Students at School 
School/Assault Zoloft Antidepressant 2006-02-15 Tennessee **Teen Attacks Teacher at School 
School Shooting Threat Antidepressant 1999-04-16 Idaho **Teen Fires Gun in School 
School Hostage Situation Paxil & Effexor Antidepressants 2001-04-15 Washington **Teen Holds Classmates Hostage with a Gun 
School Hostage Situation Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL 2006-11-28 North Carolina **Teen Holds Teacher & Student Hostage with Gun 
School Knife Attack Med for Depression 2006-12-06 Indiana **Teen Knife Attacks Fellow Student 
School Massacre Plot Prozac Withdrawal 2011-02-23 Virginia **Teen Sentenced to 12 Years in Prison For Columbine Style Plot 
School Shooting Celexa & Effexor Antidepressants 2001-04-19 California **Teen Shoots at Classmates in School 
School Shooting Celexa Antidepressant 2006-08-30 North Carolina **Teen Shoots at Two Students: Kills his Father: Celexa Found Among his Personal Effects 
School Shooting Meds For Depression & ADHD 2011-03-18 South Carolina **Teen Shoots School Official: Pipe Bombs Found in Backpack 
School Shooting Threat Antidepressant 2003-05-31 Michigan **Teen Threatens School Shooting: Charge is Terrorism 
School Stand-Off Zoloft Antidepressant 1998-04-13 Idaho **Teen [14 Years Old] in School Holds Police At Bay: Fires Shots 
School Shooting Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL 2007-10-12 Ohio **Teen [14 Years Old] School Shooter Possibly on Antidepressants or In Withdrawal 
School Threat Antidepressants 2008-03-20 Indiana **Teen [16 Years Old] Brings Gun to School: There Is a Lockdown 
School Suicide/Lockdown Med For Depression 2008-02-20 Idaho **Teen [16 Years Old] Kills Self at High School: Lockdown by Police 
School Threats Prozac Antidepressant 1999-10-19 Florida **Teen [16 Years Old] Threatens Classmates With Knife & Fake Explosives 
School Stabbing Med For Depression 2008-02-29 Texas **Teen [17 Year Old GIRL] Stabs Friend & Principal at High School 
School Hostage Situation Prozac/ Paxil Antidepressants 2001-01-18 California **Teen [17 Years Old] Takes Girl Hostage at School: He is Killed by Police 
School Knife Attack Treatment For Depression & Strattera 2009-03-10 Belgium **Three Dead in School Day Care: Two Children & a Caregiver: Happened Jan 23, 2009 
School Shooting Plot Antidepressants 2009-09-22 England **Two English School Boys Plot to Blow Up High School 
School Arson Incidents Paxil 2002-04-12 Michigan **Unusual Personality Change on Paxil Caused 15 Year Old to Set Fires inside High School 
School Bomb Threat Med For Depression 2009-06-29 Australia **Vexed Father Makes Bomb Threat Against Elementary School 
School Violence Antidepressant 2005-11-19 Arizona **Violent 8 Year Old GIRL Handcuffed by Police at School 
School Violence Celexa Antidepressant 2002-01-23 Florida **Violent 8 Year-Old Boy Arrested At School 
School Threat/Lockdown Lexapro* 2008-04-18 California **Violent High School Student Shot to Death on Campus by Police 
School / Child Endangerment Antidepressants 2008-02-27 Canada **Wacky School Bus Driver Goes Berserk: Also Involved Painkillers 
School Violence Paxil 2004-10-23 Washington DC **Young Boy, 10 Year Old, Has Violent Incidents at School 
School Threat Wellbutrin Antidepressant 2007-04-24 Tennessee **Young Boy, 12, Threatens to Shoot Others at School 
School Hostage Situation Med for Depression 2006-03-09 France **Young Ex-Teacher Holds 21 Students Hostage 
School Shooting/Suicide Celexa 2002-10-07 Texas **Young Girl [13 Years Old] Kills Self at School With a Gun 
School Hostage Situation Paxil 2001-10-12 North Carolina **Young Man Holds Three People Hostage in Duke University President's Office 
School Murder Attempt Med For Depression 1995-03-04 California **Young Woman Deliberately Hits 3 Kids with Her Car at Elementary School: Laughed During Attack
 
Do not take my freedom to bear arms away due to the actions of mentally ill individuals. Treat them and allow their family members to get treatment for them. My family has been trying to get help for my sister who is extremely mentally handicapped but she was not diagnosed until she was an adult. We can't get her help. When she lived in our house we all locked our doors at night and i felt better to have a weapon to defend myself against her if it came down to my life or hers. There is no easy answer but do not take away freedoms due to sick individuals. 
 
From a different perspective... Australians don't have the right to bear arms, except for farmers or members of gun-clubs. Its not really possible for the average person here to "buy an arsenal" anymore. Sure, we still have small scale shootings, but the last massacre by an alleged crazy guy in Australia was in 1996, just before the gun laws were tightened up. In my view its a good thing to reduce guns in society.
 
Say that when you are faced with violence not only from mentally ill but drug induced individuals who don't have a care for another human beings life... Our world is different than yours I'm afraid:-)
 
True, but we have mentally ill drug induced individuals here too. The difference is they don't carry an arsenal of weapons bought over the counter.
 
Okay again... Be faced with it and then tell me what would you do? Die I suppose! Good luck with that!
 
Pretty soon the US is gonna do like NAZI Germany and start putting the mentally ill to death!  It's the pills the doctors prescribe that drives people crazy....PUT THE DOCS TO DEAtH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
+aaron thompson Sadly that may happen and they are trying to force gun registration as well... History recycles.
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